180 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecmoose]

Zazzerka wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

uh oh, looks like the dudbros are starting to come full force, purposely derailing the thread in order to lock it down. that means it's time to bust out the BINGO CARD.

"Hair touching?"

Touching someones hair without their permission because it's a texture different then yours. Such as feeling up the afro of that random guy on the subway because it's "so cool I wish my hair was like that!" Once might be over looked as innocuous but when you're accosted multiple times a day by strangers it really becomes uncool.

[killswitch423]

Sabariel wrote...

N7_killswitch wrote...

Open my eyes, then Sabariel, to what I've been trained to not see. I'm sincere here; I know that everyone no matter who you are has to deal with different levels or problem and pain in their lives in various forms, and I guess I just believe no one person is inherently better or worse off than anyone else simply based on the color of their skin... or non-color. Maybe I'm naive, sure, but I'm tired of feeling generalized when it comes to things like this. Just think you'd make a stronger argument without the 'privileged white male' thing because that can put people on the defensive or cause unintentional offense.

This thread is full of examples. The minute-- no, second, something doesn't feature a Generic White Male / someone asks for something different, people go insane. Isabela is whitewashed, and people dismiss it/ignore it/think it's okay. WoC are called exotic and people dismiss it/ignore it/think it's okay. Idris Elba, a black man, is cast as Heimdall and people boycott Thor. People don't notice/ignore/dismiss the huge gap between games that feature white people and games that feature PoC. People tell me that pointing out someone's privilege is offensive.

I see examples of racist or homophobic or sexist idiots being idiots, which really sucks.

However, can't you even begin to understand how calling me priviliged might be even a tad offensive, or how that last line was a bit needlessly antagonistic towards me, who is not even your enemy?


Edit:  On hair touching, it's not just "ethnic" hair that deals with that.  My spikes get touched randomly all the time by total strangers, and it sucks, and is kind of creepy, but it's not just a racial thing in my humble opinion.  It's just... people having a fascination with anything different than what they're used to kind of thing.  Just like ethnicity fetishes (is it wrong to be attracted to certain skin tones or facial structures?  Legitimate question here, never thought to ask it before.)

Modifié par N7_killswitch, 09 septembre 2013 - 06:26 .

[wolfhowwl]

Everyone using the term "dudebros" has been reported for unacceptable hate speech and account bans have been requested.

In the future I hope you consider not using such hurtful, bigoted language in a forum that is dedicated to positive and friendly discussion on the upcoming Dragon Age: Inquisition game.

Thank you.

[Thiefy]

Ecmoose wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

uh oh, looks like the dudbros are starting to come full force, purposely derailing the thread in order to lock it down. that means it's time to bust out the BINGO CARD.

Ecmoose wrote...

Honestly though I think the term has done more harm then good and just been used to sling vitriol at people who don't immediately relate to those of us who struggle with prejudice, instead of appropriately explaining things everyone just says "well you have white privilage and you should get over it."

 
I've done more of my fair share to TRY and educate people (here and irl), and I'm tired. As a fellow PoC you *should* know why we are tired.

Instead of acting defensive, maybe people should try to learn WHY this large group of people are upset. Google makes it extremely easy but instead, they'd rather play the victim card and stew in their own ignorance.

And you know what, I've been there before and have shown my own ignorance here, on topics concerning homosexuality and bisexuality. But you learn, grow and mostly, say SORRY for the dick things you did while making an active effort not to do it again.

I understand, and I've gone through phases between being upset and giving up, and trying again to educate. However putting people on the defensive is just more likely to blind them to something they don't understand because it creates negative reinforcement. 

There's no easy way to make people understand, and you'll never get 100% of people to get it, but it's been my experience that acting hostile has only made people less understanding and more likely to tell me I deserve what I get.

Everything puts the privileged on defensive. I'm tired of trying to justify myself for the sake of their education. I can't even tell someone "you are wrong" without it being percieved as angry. Thankfully if you call someone out irl they are more apt to listen and think about their actions than online.

Also, shout out to being mixed. Always something a little special about finding other mixed people.

[shit's fucked cunts]

Ecmoose wrote...

Touching someones hair without their permission because it's a texture different then yours. Such as feeling up the afro of that random guy on the subway because it's "so cool I wish my hair was like that!" Once might be over looked as innocuous but when you're accosted multiple times a day by strangers it really becomes uncool.

I was wondering because when I was in primary school, we had lots of Sudanese refugees that were fleeing war join our classes. They had very elaborate braids, and they let us feel them. I was going to be pretty confused if that earned me a "racism bingo."

[killswitch423]

I love you, Filament. Always wanted to say that.

What do you want from me, thief? To accept the fact that it's somehow okay for me to be generalized as a privileged dudebro just because other people feel it's okay to generalize racially?

Modifié par N7_killswitch, 09 septembre 2013 - 06:32 .

[Daerog]

Crazy Eyed One wrote...

Last time I'm going to try because I'm slowly becoming a broken record.

You want equality right? Look at the bigger picture we are the same specie, our DNA is very similar to one another the only difference is a few aesthetic differences, by stating that you are a 'PoC' (stupid abbreviations!) you are inherently segregating yourself from the rest of the human race. So you are damning yourself by stating this.

For all intensive purposes of this argument I am a cactus.

Hey, if you see things that way, great. Some people don't. If you don't have a problem with mass media never using a white male again, then why not? Just human.

There is an underlying thing here, something called "acceptance." If there was a group of people with four arms, we'll call them Goros or whatever, and nothing in the media ever showed them, would they feel a part of the community where they live? Even if their DNA is practically the same as everyone else besides that little edition?

This is off topic.....

Ya, it would be cool for more random PCs being shown at demos and videos. I would like to see a female dwarf at some point myself, wondering how they look in their new designs since DA:O.

[Sabariel]

N7_killswitch wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

N7_killswitch wrote...

Open my eyes, then Sabariel, to what I've been trained to not see. I'm sincere here; I know that everyone no matter who you are has to deal with different levels or problem and pain in their lives in various forms, and I guess I just believe no one person is inherently better or worse off than anyone else simply based on the color of their skin... or non-color. Maybe I'm naive, sure, but I'm tired of feeling generalized when it comes to things like this. Just think you'd make a stronger argument without the 'privileged white male' thing because that can put people on the defensive or cause unintentional offense.

This thread is full of examples. The minute-- no, second, something doesn't feature a Generic White Male / someone asks for something different, people go insane. Isabela is whitewashed, and people dismiss it/ignore it/think it's okay. WoC are called exotic and people dismiss it/ignore it/think it's okay. Idris Elba, a black man, is cast as Heimdall and people boycott Thor. People don't notice/ignore/dismiss the huge gap between games that feature white people and games that feature PoC. People tell me that pointing out someone's privilege is offensive.

I see examples of racist or homophobic or sexist idiots being idiots, which really sucks.

However, can't you even begin to understand how calling me priviliged might be even a tad offensive, or how that last line was a bit needlessly antagonistic towards me, who is not even your enemy?

But you have privilege. A white person in the crappiest crap situation still has more privilege than a PoC in the same crappiest crap situation. None of that means you're not allowed to feel crappy about your situation, but at the same time you need to realize that systematic oppression/unbalanced privilege is making things so much worse for others. Why would pointing that out be offensive to you?

[thatguy212]

 Theme for the thread

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

We want lots of explosions, lots of blood and destruction and lots of mages, qunari and templars being slain and see God-Emperor descends to help mankind in the next Demo-Trailer.

[SirGladiator]

Being colorblind is always best. It doesn't matter what color somebody is, I treat them the same, and they treat me the same, where I'm from that's how we roll, it's the way it should always be. On the topic of characters on the cover of the game, the nice thing about Bioware games in general, and it obviously applies to this game as well, is that you can make your main character whichever race, or sex, you prefer. There's really no need to focus on any one group, they would do best if everyone knew that you can play any as any type of character you like, black, white, male, female, you can play whichever way you prefer. That's the best way to promote the game. Whether it's by putting, for example, a white male Inquisitor on the front and a black female inquisitor on the back, reversing that, or reversing the colors, whatever, if everybody knows they can make any kind of character they want they'll be a lot better off than by making people think the main character is a particular race and sex, regardless of which race and sex they choose. Of course there's nothing wrong with using a 'generic white male' on the cover, but they're doing themselves a disservice if they make people think that the Inquisitor 'is' a generic white male, the customization options should be made clear by whatever means are best.

[killswitch423]

Sabariel wrote...

But you have privilege. A white person in the crappiest crap situation still has more privilege than a PoC in the same crappiest crap situation. None of that means you're not allowed to feel crappy about your situation, but at the same time you need to realize that systematic oppression/unbalanced privilege is making things so much worse for others. Why would pointing that out be offensive to you?

It isn't, when you say it like that.  If that's all you mean by it I take no offense.

However, others don't use the term the same way that you do.  They often seem to use it to dismiss my opinion or assume I'm racist or that I couldn't possibly begin to understand or relate.  That is what offends me, and it simply wasn't clear to me at first that you only meant the former due to my experience with the phrase.

[AppealToReason]

Holy ****ing ****.

[Daerog]

Ya, this is getting off topic...

[Topsider]

Marketing tends to be ultra safe these days, understandable given the huge budgets AAA games have. They're not going to take unnecessary risks. Generic white male is the safest option. That doesn't mean the default should be a clone though, like Booker DeWitt and Nathan Drake. I actually groaned when I saw Bioshock Infinite's cover - "playing it safe" taken to the extreme, even the gun over shoulder pose...

[thatguy212]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Ya, this is getting off topic...

there was a topic? 

[Thiefy]

N7_killswitch wrote...
I see examples of racist or homophobic or sexist idiots being idiots, which really sucks.

However, can't you even begin to understand how calling me priviliged might be even a tad offensive, or how that last line was a bit needlessly antagonistic towards me, who is not even your enemy?


Edit:  On hair touching, it's not just "ethnic" hair that deals with that.  My spikes get touched randomly all the time by total strangers, and it sucks, and is kind of creepy, but it's not just a racial thing in my humble opinion.  It's just... people having a fascination with anything different than what they're used to kind of thing.  Just like ethnicity fetishes (is it wrong to be attracted to certain skin tones or facial structures?  Legitimate question here, never thought to ask it before.)

 
Stop.
Stop.
Stop.
You are doing it wrong. the LEARNING part. The one you asked for.
Here are people trying to teach you why people are upset and taking the time to educate you. Instead of listening, you are making the issue (marginalized people) and making it about you, and how you aren't possibly part of "the bad group".

This is not about you. This is not about your exeperiences, and definately not about your feelings of being offended.

That above statement is not about going out of my way to make you feel bad or guilty, it is about making you examine what the problem is and how you may or may not be contributing to it. Let it stew for a bit before posting.

Black people have really, really awesome hair. Often naturally, but sometimes aided with chemical relaxers and/or the addition of something called a weave. It is a beautiful thing but it is not ment to be touched by anyone other than the person who the hair is attached to. Many nonblack people do so anyway without any regard for the owner's personal space. It is a huge problem. Tumblr alone can provide with hundreds of examples, and i'm sure google could provide thousands.

and i'm done educating for the night. if you are actually serious about learning, you should take the initiative to find out the answers to your own questions instead of using a handful of poc as a walking dictionary. 

on a closing note, as part of the most privileged group, you do not get to make choices on what is or is not racist, what is or is not offensive. Only someone belonging to that particular marginalized group gets to say what is or is not offensive to them. if you don't live it and deal with the consequences, you don't get to call the shots. and yes, fetishes are very bad. 

editted for my wonky quoting

Modifié par Thief-of-Hearts, 09 septembre 2013 - 06:44 .

[Hi my name is Ryan]

thatguy212 wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Ya, this is getting off topic...

there was a topic? 

Yeah. "Cater to me instead of evil white cis males because oppression"

[thatguy212]

Hi my name is Ryan wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Ya, this is getting off topic...

there was a topic? 

Yeah. "Cater to me instead of evil white cis males because oppression"

Oh man i hate those guys, this one handsome one always shows up to bother me when i brush my teeth and just stares at me and mimes what i do

[Urshakk]

Another one of these threads? Why not just post in one of the other existing ones...but then again these kind of discussions usually turn hostile anyway. There has already been a bioware post saying (No, I really don't want to dig it up) that the people who do that sort of marketing have heard these concerns. The ball is in their court now.

[Cigne]

In Exile wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Representation in marketing is important. Representation is important, period. Generic White Males have had more than their fair share of representation over the years. It is time for a change.

I certainly agree that we need more equal representation, particularly in gaming... but why is the solution to simply pick another group to cater to as the marketing iconic?

The marketing should be inclusive, but that means showing that a protagonist could literally be anyone - skin colour, gender, fantasy race, whatever.  

In another, similar thread, it was suggested that Bioware do a cover like KotOR.

If they showcase the various companions to the Inquisitor on the cover instead of the pc, it would highlight one of Bioware's strength's and also be somewhat inclusive.