170 réponses à ce sujet

[TurretSyndrome]

I would like to see bonuses to spell power while having Blood Magic activated, but that might make it overpowered.

[Wulfram]

Maybe they should make blood magic really powerful - and stick a big red "learn blood magic from demon" button on Mage inquisitor's screens at all times?

[TurretSyndrome]

 Or maybe they should make it really powerful while also adding a "demonic possession" meter. The more you use it in a battle, the more the meter fills up, then a small scene in which your character becomes an Abomination. The screen will go red with the words "Your Journey Ends... at least as a mortal" in the center of the screen. 

[Natewnz]

I definitely feel they should expand on the 'using abilities in cutscenes concept'. I.e. like that lady in the brothel that attempts to subjugate and mind control you through blood magic.

We should be able to use that in place of regular coercion or persuasion attempts and they would be even more difficult to resist.

Would be awesome and fits the lore and story well. In return there definitely should be in game story lashbacks for using such a forbidden school of magic. I could see loss of companions, maybe chantry investigators infiltrating your keep because they heard 'rumors' of illicit magic being employed by your inquisition, would be a nice scenario deciding what to do with them .. either slit their throats or mind wipe them using blood magic or keep them in the dungeons until further notice.

and further events like that would help give the universe a more reactive feel and give blood magic a more authentic representation within the DA universe. Instead of everyone being oblivious to you impaling yourself and sprouting blood everywhere like in DA2 which was so unrealistic and out of place.

[Tremere]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

 Or maybe they should make it really powerful while also adding a "demonic possession" meter. The more you use it in a battle, the more the meter fills up, then a small scene in which your character becomes an Abomination. The screen will go red with the words "Your Journey Ends... at least as a mortal" in the center of the screen. 

Respectfully, this only makes sense if the "person" in question consorted with a demon in order to learn Blood Magic. Without that, this probably won't work, as BioWare has pretty much made it clear that (a) You don't have to consort with demons to learn Blood Magic and ( any "person", non-sentient entity (Sylvans), or beast (Anders' cat), can be taken by a demon. In fact, if you remember in DA-Origins, Irving alludes to this in regards to Connor (potentially) being possessed against his will. So without either of those situations, arbitrarily associating a demon with your character likely won't go over well and would likely discourage people from wanting to play as a Blood Mage. Whether this is good or bad is the subject for a whole other conversation.

[Trikormadenadon]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I think the existence of spells like "Blood Wound" kind of disproves your point. That said, I think it SHOULD be more powerful--perhaps Blood Wound should work over a larger area, and other blood spells should be more powerful.

That brings up the ever-present question of balance, but I'm not overly worried about that. One thing that worries me is that if they make it more powerful, people will feel compelled to use it simply because it's OP, and be willing to consort with demons when they would NOT if they were actually in the universe. They'll justify it meta to the game. Not that that is a major problem, but it's worth mentioning.

Yes, the last bit about everyone being tempted to use it is true unless they implemented some serious downfall in game for being a blood mage at a critical point in the story. This might make people think twice about being a blood mage.

[Potato Cat]

I just think it should give us a small bonus to spell power, or whatever it's called. Small bonus, but something that conveys that blood magic is basically talking with a megaphone. Bigger, better, but people will not like it.

[Trikormadenadon]

Grkljan wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

One thing that worries me is that if they make it more powerful, people will feel compelled to use it simply because it's OP, and be willing to consort with demons when they would NOT if they were actually in the universe.

Would they not? Hmm, seems to me like a pretty good way to demonstrate the temptation of blood magic directly to the player. If you are ready to use it in the game because it is extremely powerful, what makes you think you wouldn't use it were you yourself in that situation?

Because when you are actually in the situation you won't necessarily make the same choices. It is easy to say "Yeah, I want to be the biggest badass mage of all so I'll be a blood mage." when you are sitting in the comfort of your living room, but if you were actually in Thedas and you had the very real fear of maybe being hunted by Templars and the threat of demonic control you may not make the same choice.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Bloody mages can pierce their bodies many times for the GREAT POWER, right?

[Tremere]

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Grkljan wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

One thing that worries me is that if they make it more powerful, people will feel compelled to use it simply because it's OP, and be willing to consort with demons when they would NOT if they were actually in the universe.

Would they not? Hmm, seems to me like a pretty good way to demonstrate the temptation of blood magic directly to the player. If you are ready to use it in the game because it is extremely powerful, what makes you think you wouldn't use it were you yourself in that situation?

Because when you are actually in the situation you won't necessarily make the same choices. It is easy to say "Yeah, I want to be the biggest badass mage of all so I'll be a blood mage." when you are sitting in the comfort of your living room, but if you were actually in Thedas and you had the very real fear of maybe being hunted by Templars and the threat of demonic control you may not make the same choice.

I think Anders and Flemeth prove your point quite nicely. Anders took in Justice for his own reasons and ended up corrupting the Spirit with his anger. On the other hand, Flemeth seems to have managed her alliance fairly well... All things considered. I can understand to a degree why BioWare would make allying with "a spirit" the pre-requisite for learning Blood Magic (although it would kind of justify people's distrust and the player's distaste with it), but in the case of Anders, I don't think you can justifiably say he practiced Blood Magic in order to get his abilities. Certainly when by some accounts, he was a "Spirit Healer"... Go figure.

This is one of those murky areas that I hope BioWare lends a lot of clarification to. I just don't buy into the "all mages are evil" meme, when there are Templars, Wardens, Warriors and Priests who've proven that susceptibility to corruption comes in all packages.

Modifié par GabrielXL, 23 octobre 2013 - 08:31 .

[Wulfram]

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Because when you are actually in the situation you won't necessarily make the same choices. It is easy to say "Yeah, I want to be the biggest badass mage of all so I'll be a blood mage." when you are sitting in the comfort of your living room, but if you were actually in Thedas and you had the very real fear of maybe being hunted by Templars and the threat of demonic control you may not make the same choice.

If you get the other characters in the world reacting appropriately, then I think that's less of a problem.  Have people who know the PC react with shock and concern.  Have factions that would otherwise readily ally with the PC draw away.  Make some potential LIs break up with the PC over it.  Even make it change the endings available to the PC - not that you'll be unable to succeed of course, but that with success you'll be looked upon by the world with at best respect mingled with fear, rather than with the straightforward adulation and acclaim that you'd otherwise have earned.

Modifié par Wulfram, 23 octobre 2013 - 03:38 .

[The_11thDoctor]

Am I the only one that used Blood magic correctly in DA2? Merril was a tank and dang near unkillable and slaughtered everything! The way I speced Merril I never ran out of health and just kept gaining more health each attack and had dang near endless spell casting... Maybe there are a lot of people out there that didnt understand how to use her? Anyways, yes they could make it a bit more powerful, but I remember plenty of fights on higher diff that seemed impossible when on my PC, but when I switched to Merril, the fight ended in my favor and quickly. Just wished Blood Magic did something outside of combat and had more blood magic attacks and better visuals.

[Akernis]

 

Qistina wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
there was a spell to drain Mana from an opponent and a spell to make it burn him from the inside...you do not call that manipulating?

Nope, because mana can't be manipulated, you can drain mana, that is not manipulation. 

LexXxich wrote...
Mana Clash.

It is not mana manipulation. If it is mana manipulation then it against "Magic must serve men, not rule over him" and will be banned from the Circle

The Spirit School of Magic would beg to differ. 
Taken from the in-game Codex:

"Students of this school cover anything from direct manipulation of mana and spell energies to..."

In regards to Blood Magic. Beyond the specific abilities that Blood Magic gives, like Domination, Blood Wound and potentially Demon Summoning, I think it would work well if it also made your abilities more powerful (say, a +20-30% spellpower increase or similar, or even as much as 50%) but on the other hand meant, like now, you could not heal and suffered a good deal of damage, either continueously as long as Blood Magic was active or when casting.
As others have mentioned, with the new mechanics that remove post-battle regeneration this could easily be a serious counter-balance to its power.
And that is before talking about potential results of hits to your reputation and friendships if/when the information gets out. 

Modifié par Akernis, 23 octobre 2013 - 04:16 .

[TurretSyndrome]

It really comes down to design choice. I don't mind facing consequences for using Blood Magic, but I also do not want to be harassed all the time, regardless of whether or not I use it, or whether or not I use it in front of others.

Like how the guards of Tamriel would be able to "smell" the blood on you even if you kill somebody without any witnesses, in Oblivion.

Anyway, I think it would be best if Bioware just implemented it on the narrative side as someone suggested, rather than the gameplay side, so they can save themselves a lot of agony.

[Todd23]

It should have greater strengths and weaknesses in all aspects of the game than any other specialization. In combat it should be much more powerful than any other specialization, but be completely canceled when someone uses litany of adrala. With the story you should be able to convince blood mages that you aren't inherently against them... and with enough spellpower convince weaker willed individuals to see things your way. But make any who discover you're a blood mage whom are against blood magic (probably the majority of Thedas excluding tevinter, grey wardens, and the libertarians.) more hostile towards you.

[LobselVith8]

BeadyEyedTater wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

If I were going to show how blood magic were powerful, I'd keep the specialization mechanically balanced with other specializations but give you story benefits. You get to use a Jedi mind trick on a guard in your way, when an enemy takes a hostage, you can choose to have the enemy's blood burst out of their body - that sort of thing.

And this would be perfect. 

I agree. It would make the blood magic specialization more interesting for players than it's previously been handled for our mage protagonists.

[TK514]

They could just remove it as a specialization available to the PC. Then they can make it as powerful as the narrative requires without balancing it for players.

[Tremere]

I understand why (in the context of the game) Blood Magic is such a bugaboo. Likewise, I understand why there should be at least some consequence for using it. What I don't like is all the (demon this, evil that), that the clueless masses of Thedas toss around to justify their own fears and prejudices. That there are people who understand the dangers associated with it, is perfectly fine, but just as there are good and bad people in the world of Thedas, as well as Mages who have saved their asses on more than one occasion, I don't see how the story can continue painting Mages in a bad light when there are so many other wrongs in the world.

If you played Legacy, you know that Malcolm Hawke used Blood Magic to protect the world. Obviously, this is a story that is not known to the world (Thedas) at large, but it is part of the lore. On that note, it should be the character's decisions that affect people's reactions more so than what tool they use to do what needs to be done.

Modifié par GabrielXL, 23 octobre 2013 - 08:53 .

[Jaulen]

so...what I'm getting from this thread is that the pro-Blood Mages want more power, bonuses and whatnot with no side effects or consequences.....

[Trolldrool]

Jaulen wrote...


so...what I'm getting from this thread is that the pro-Blood Mages want more power, bonuses and whatnot with no side effects or consequences.....

I'd honestly love to have blood magic be more powerful, but risk attracting hostile guards we have to outrun if seen using it inside a city or maybe a cutscene with guards around. But maybe that would be too similar to escaping the police in GTA when you have 2-3 stars.

[Akernis]

BeadyEyedTater wrote...

trying_touch wrote...

they are purported to be changing that, according to the PAX assembly, they are trying to make Blood Magic super powerful and super consequential

Did they say super powerful? All I recall hearing is the super consequential part. I would hope more power would come with the consequences.

Didn't they just say something along the lines of "threatning from a player's perspective"?

[TribolMan]

Navasha wrote...

Umm Blood magic is already more powerful than normal. You basically can cast other spells for like a 5th of the normal cost, meaning you cast spells pretty much non-stop. Plus, you can use your friends as "batteries" to recharge as well.

That's a pretty potent advantage over "normal" mages. If they wanted to add a mode where you could cast a more powerful version of other spells through blood magic, then they should add something to balance it... like you might randomly summon a powerful demon in the middle of battle who paralyzes your mage while they struggle to defeat it. Only if the remaining members of your party can kill the demon before it takes over the mage do you get your mage back.

Power should always come at a price.

The randomly summoning demons idea is pretty cool, actually my RPG Master had a similar idea for the necromancers in Pathfinder, every time a party member uses a spell from the necromancy school he rolls a d20, if the result is 1 or 20 a demon is summoned to either help or attack the party 

[Tremere]

Jaulen wrote...


so...what I'm getting from this thread is that the pro-Blood Mages want more power, bonuses and whatnot with no side effects or consequences.....

I can only speak for myself... My point is that there's enough evil to go around. Why just Mages? If there are consequences for using Blood Magic, so be it, but in the context of everything past, constantly harping on the evil gets old when (a) most non-mages have no understanding of Blood Magic... or magic at all, ( not all Mages are evil or corrupted. That there are people who won't accept it and will attack you as a matter of course is perfectly consistent with the game's lore. Where it gets bothersome (for me) is when a Mage does good works and title after title continues pushing the evil Mage meme. In truth, while BioWare hasn't made clear who the antagonist is in DA-I, threads like this show that there's still the underlying perception that Mages in general and Blood Mages in particular "should be" associated with *bad*... Even unconciously amongst some who "support" them.

Hell, for all we know, Sandal could be the bad guy in all this. *HAHAHA!*

Modifié par GabrielXL, 23 octobre 2013 - 10:18 .