170 réponses à ce sujet

[Magdalena11]

Quick and stupid question: Why does mana clash kill blood mages?

[cjones91]

Magdalena11 wrote...

Quick and stupid question: Why does mana clash kill blood mages?

Supposedly it attacks the mana which all mages have.Blood mages can still use mana so that may be why Mana Clash effects them.

[Tremere]

Silfren wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Do you know the specifics of the war in the Brecillian Forest? Because I don't. I can't rule out that magics were used extensively there. Particularly not since we find an Artifcat in a ruin within said forest, that shows us a Flashback of people using magic extensively to fight some evil.

It needs to be pointed out though that blood magic is NOT necessary for that to happen.  The lore plainly says that the Veil becomes thin anywhere that there is massive bloodshed, i.e. war.  Nothing about that requires blood magic. 

What exactly are you suggesting here?  That sure, mundanes do have the capacity for that kind of veil-thinning violence, but that it doesn't matter because they don't have the same capacity for it as mages?  Or are you simply saying that all available examples either do use magic or can't be said not to, so it's not likely to be a problem without magic?

For me, the simple fact is that magic is NOT the only means of making the Veil thin enough to allow demons to roam freely into the world.  Large-scale bloodshed will do the trick just fine, so says the lore, which means that the Veil stands a likelihood of being thinned each and everytime someone goes to war, with or without mages.  I always thought the lore was plain enough on this that nobody should ever hear of a place where the Veil has been torn or thinned, and say "must've been blood mages."

*sigh*

Finally!

*nods graciously*

[Hellion Rex]

cjones91 wrote...

Magdalena11 wrote...

Quick and stupid question: Why does mana clash kill blood mages?

Supposedly it attacks the mana which all mages have.Blood mages can still use mana so that may be why Mana Clash effects them.

Yup:wizard:

[Silfren]

cjones91 wrote...

Magdalena11 wrote...

Quick and stupid question: Why does mana clash kill blood mages?

Supposedly it attacks the mana which all mages have.Blood mages can still use mana so that may be why Mana Clash effects them.

You just got me wondering if there would ever be a way for non-mages to somehow harness the power of magic using blood.  Only mages have mana, but everyone has their own blood supply, after all.  Hmm.

[cjones91]

Silfren wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Magdalena11 wrote...

Quick and stupid question: Why does mana clash kill blood mages?

Supposedly it attacks the mana which all mages have.Blood mages can still use mana so that may be why Mana Clash effects them.

You just got me wondering if there would ever be a way for non-mages to somehow harness the power of magic using blood.  Only mages have mana, but everyone has their own blood supply, after all.  Hmm.

I believe everyone has mana in them since they are connected to the Fade except for dwarves.However mages are the only ones who can harness it properly.

[TK514]

Silfren wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Do you know the specifics of the war in the Brecillian Forest? Because I don't. I can't rule out that magics were used extensively there. Particularly not since we find an Artifcat in a ruin within said forest, that shows us a Flashback of people using magic extensively to fight some evil.

It needs to be pointed out though that blood magic is NOT necessary for that to happen.  The lore plainly says that the Veil becomes thin anywhere that there is massive bloodshed, i.e. war.  Nothing about that requires blood magic. 

What exactly are you suggesting here?  That sure, mundanes do have the capacity for that kind of veil-thinning violence, but that it doesn't matter because they don't have the same capacity for it as mages?  Or are you simply saying that all available examples either do use magic or can't be said not to, so it's not likely to be a problem without magic?

For me, the simple fact is that magic is NOT the only means of making the Veil thin enough to allow demons to roam freely into the world.  Large-scale bloodshed will do the trick just fine, so says the lore, which means that the Veil stands a likelihood of being thinned each and everytime someone goes to war, with or without mages.  I always thought the lore was plain enough on this that nobody should ever hear of a place where the Veil has been torn or thinned, and say "must've been blood mages."

Logically, it must take more than just a battle, or there wouldn't be a Veil left to tear.  The Dales, the Anderfells, more of the Free Marches than just Kirkwall, and pretty much the entire North of Thedas would all be gaping holes in reality.  It must take something exceptional about the violence in a localized area to tear the Veil without magic.  Perhaps a specific type of violence, or strong emotion related to the violence, or scale of the violence, or all three.

There has to be a reason why the Brecillian Forest was leaking spirits but, say, Ostegar wasn't.  Or the Denerim Orphanage was a screaming gateway, but the prisons of Fort Drakkon weren't.

[Medhia Nox]

@Silfren: I think mundanes turning to blood magic to compete would have been more interesting than its current incarnation.

[Br3admax]

Shouldn't every attack kill in one hit or two?

[dragonflight288]

Silfren wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Magdalena11 wrote...

Quick and stupid question: Why does mana clash kill blood mages?

Supposedly it attacks the mana which all mages have.Blood mages can still use mana so that may be why Mana Clash effects them.

You just got me wondering if there would ever be a way for non-mages to somehow harness the power of magic using blood.  Only mages have mana, but everyone has their own blood supply, after all.  Hmm.

Technically, every non-dwarf has a connection to the Fade and go there nightly to dream, so in a sense, everyone has some measure of mana themselves. Mages can manipulate it to their own ends, and enter the fade conscious.

[Silfren]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Silfren wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Magdalena11 wrote...

Quick and stupid question: Why does mana clash kill blood mages?

Supposedly it attacks the mana which all mages have.Blood mages can still use mana so that may be why Mana Clash effects them.

You just got me wondering if there would ever be a way for non-mages to somehow harness the power of magic using blood.  Only mages have mana, but everyone has their own blood supply, after all.  Hmm.

Technically, every non-dwarf has a connection to the Fade and go there nightly to dream, so in a sense, everyone has some measure of mana themselves. Mages can manipulate it to their own ends, and enter the fade conscious.

I don't think it's the case that everyone has their own mana supply but that only mages can actually tap it.  The connection to the Fade seems to be separate from mana itself.  Case in point, isn't it the case that surface dwarves eventually lose their lyrium resistance, among other things?  I may be mis-remembering, but I'd swear someone said that eventually surface dwarves start to dream at some point.

[EmperorSahlertz]

As I understand it, blood isn't a replacement for mana, but an enhancer like Lyrium.

EDIT: And yes, surface Dwarves will eventually lose their magic and Lyrium resistance, and begin to dream aswell.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 24 octobre 2013 - 06:45 .

[Silfren]

cjones91 wrote...

Silfren wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Magdalena11 wrote...

Quick and stupid question: Why does mana clash kill blood mages?

Supposedly it attacks the mana which all mages have.Blood mages can still use mana so that may be why Mana Clash effects them.

You just got me wondering if there would ever be a way for non-mages to somehow harness the power of magic using blood.  Only mages have mana, but everyone has their own blood supply, after all.  Hmm.

I believe everyone has mana in them since they are connected to the Fade except for dwarves.However mages are the only ones who can harness it properly.

But this begs the question as to how some people are able to harness their mana to create magic, but others cannot do likewise. 

Though I do admit now that I think about it, this could be made to fit under Sandal's prophecy.

[Silfren]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

As I understand it, blood isn't a replacement for mana, but an enhancer like Lyrium.

EDIT: And yes, surface Dwarves will eventually lose their magic and Lyrium resistance, and begin to dream aswell.

Blood can be used instead of mana, is how I've always understood it.

[EmperorSahlertz]

One of the great mysteries, that only a writer can answer I suppose.

[Hellion Rex]

Silfren wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

As I understand it, blood isn't a replacement for mana, but an enhancer like Lyrium.

EDIT: And yes, surface Dwarves will eventually lose their magic and Lyrium resistance, and begin to dream aswell.

Blood can be used instead of mana, is how I've always understood it.

I had always assumed blood could be used as both a replacement and/or a enhancer.

[dragonflight288]

Silfren wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Silfren wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Magdalena11 wrote...

Quick and stupid question: Why does mana clash kill blood mages?

Supposedly it attacks the mana which all mages have.Blood mages can still use mana so that may be why Mana Clash effects them.

You just got me wondering if there would ever be a way for non-mages to somehow harness the power of magic using blood.  Only mages have mana, but everyone has their own blood supply, after all.  Hmm.

Technically, every non-dwarf has a connection to the Fade and go there nightly to dream, so in a sense, everyone has some measure of mana themselves. Mages can manipulate it to their own ends, and enter the fade conscious.

I don't think it's the case that everyone has their own mana supply but that only mages can actually tap it.  The connection to the Fade seems to be separate from mana itself.  Case in point, isn't it the case that surface dwarves eventually lose their lyrium resistance, among other things?  I may be mis-remembering, but I'd swear someone said that eventually surface dwarves start to dream at some point.

Surface dwarves do, eventually, lose their resistance to lyrium.

But for the part on everyone havin mana, whether or not it manifests itself, there is this.

Codex Entry

Mana and the Use of Magic

Mana is that which defines a mage.
It is potential that dwells within a person but does not always
manifest itself. All men are connected to the Fade; we go there to
dream. But only those with this potential may draw upon its power.
Mana is, then, a measurement of one's ability to draw power from the Fade, and it is this power that is expended in magic.
As in all other things, it has limits. Just as a man has the
strength to lift only so much weight and no more, a mage cannot work
more magic at one time than his mana allows. If he wishes to work magic
that would be beyond his strength, a mage must bolster his mana with lyrium.
Without lyrium, it is possible for the reckless to expend their own
life-force in the working of magic, and occasionally, ambitious
apprentices injure or even kill themselves by over-exertion.
--From The Lectures of First Enchanter Wenselus

hmm....I wonder if First Enchanter Wenselus likes his pizza *sings* Deep and crisp and even!

Modifié par dragonflight288, 24 octobre 2013 - 07:06 .

[dragonflight288]

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

As I understand it, blood isn't a replacement for mana, but an enhancer like Lyrium.

EDIT: And yes, surface Dwarves will eventually lose their magic and Lyrium resistance, and begin to dream aswell.

Blood can be used instead of mana, is how I've always understood it.

I had always assumed blood could be used as both a replacement and/or a enhancer.

It does both.

[Teahuppoo]

PinkShoes wrote...

You should be like a glass canon as a blood made. Do lots of dmg but if you get hit you take lots more dmg.

this

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Silfren wrote...

You just got me wondering if there would ever be a way for non-mages to somehow harness the power of magic using blood.  Only mages have mana, but everyone has their own blood supply, after all.  Hmm.

The specialisations for Reaver and Assassin both strongly imply that some of their abilities are precisely that: blood 'magic' for mundanes.

[The Hierophant]

I thought the assassin's talents were only highly stylized?

[dragonflight288]

The Hierophant wrote...

I thought the assassin's talents were only highly stylized?

The rogue is probably the one one of the classes that doesn't have any sort of deal with a spirit or demon at all. Warriors have Spirit Warriors, Mages have Spirit Healers and Blood magic, and Rogues.....well they train extensively to be efficient killing machines.

[The Hierophant]

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

I thought the assassin's talents were only highly stylized?

The rogue is probably the one one of the classes that doesn't have any sort of deal with a spirit or demon at all. Warriors have Spirit Warriors, Mages have Spirit Healers and Blood magic, and Rogues.....well they train extensively to be efficient killing machines.

True.

[Tremere]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

GabrielXL wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Killing anyone should no matter what always be morally questionable. But there is an honesty to a sword that I can appreciate. It is more... honorable... For lack of a better word. Which means I would rank it closer to the acceptable.

My inner Mage agrees with the first part of your statement.

Honesty is always colored by perception, but I understand your position. Hypothetical situation... You, the honorable swordsman gets accosted by a group of bandits. You are badly outnumbered and as you're being backed into certain doom, all of a sudden, you watch the group in front of you convulse and begin to vomit blood, before collapsing dead. A moment later, your wounds begin to heal and your energy is restored, allowing you to continue the fight from which you emerge victorious. You may not like it... You may not approve, but that Mage saved your life and asked for nothing in return. Why? Because he just doesn't like to see honorable people suffer.

Herein lies the problem... and at least partially because you don't really know what kind of magic was being used. Sure, you could say Blood Magic, but you really don't know. What you do know is that you're able to continue your journey because another person provided aid in a time of need.

Well I wouldn't know no. But the mage would, and it would be him who would ahve to make moral choices of his own. We are not set on this earth to make moral choices on behalf of others, but we do judge them. But just because nobody is around to hear the tree fall, doesn't mean it didn't make a sound. So just because no one knew the amge used blood magic, doesn't mean that the action wasn't morally repugnant. It just means he got away with it.

I see... So would you have preferred the Mage do nothing so as not to (inadvertently) offend your sense of moral superiority? Because from his perspective, he was using his talents for the sake of preserving a life worth saving. No different than a city guard, or a Templar for that matter. Perhaps he felt "morally obligated" to do so and would feel no sense of guilt about his actions. Your statement suggests (to me) that somehow, the Mage should know that (if he indeed used Blood Magic), he should feel some sense of guilt or misplaced sense of responsibility for having done so. *Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.* We all have our own sense of morals and ethics that are based on whatever truth we hold dear. It's when those ideals become the impetus behind impeding others, that the stage is being set for "the inevitable plummet into the abyss"... And then, "Maker help us all".

That is, if he's even listening.

Modifié par GabrielXL, 25 octobre 2013 - 04:13 .

[Br3admax]

The Hierophant wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

I thought the assassin's talents were only highly stylized?

The rogue is probably the one one of the classes that doesn't have any sort of deal with a spirit or demon at all. Warriors have Spirit Warriors, Mages have Spirit Healers and Blood magic, and Rogues.....well they train extensively to be efficient killing machines.

True.

Don't forget some Reavers for Warriors.