186 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

Fetunche wrote...

Lambert was a dick, hopefully a dead one.

Lambert and the red headed mage were the only worthy characters in the game.  And when I say worthy I mean they stuck to their beleifs from beginning to end and totally beleived in what they were doing, good or ill.

The characters that people fall all over in the books were traiterous, selfish, wishy washy and caused more harm than the other two.  (That being Rhys, Evangeline, Cole, Wynne. Leliana)

Dave Gaider did a superior job of writing in this book because he painted a nice picture of those people and yet their actions were far worse the ones he painted as being bad.  Brilliant job of writing.

[Taleroth]

Beerfish wrote...

And when I say worthy I mean they stuck to their beleifs from beginning to end and totally beleived in what they were doing, good or ill.

Why do you paint fanatacism as a virtue?

Now, I haven't read Asunder, but that's what you just described. A good man should question and doubt. Believers are scary.

Modifié par Taleroth, 10 septembre 2013 - 07:38 .

[Heimdall]

Taleroth wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

And when I say worthy I mean they stuck to their beleifs from beginning to end and totally beleived in what they were doing, good or ill.

Why do you paint fantacism as a virtue?

My thoughts exactly.  I don't think being conflicted about a complex is issue is a flaw necessarily either...

[Beerfish]

Taleroth wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

And when I say worthy I mean they stuck to their beleifs from beginning to end and totally beleived in what they were doing, good or ill.

Why do you paint fanatacism as a virtue?

Now, I haven't read Asunder, but that's what you just described. A good man should question and doubt. Believers are scary.

Both of them had already questioned and doubted and came to a conclusuion as to how things need to be dealt with.  They then stuck to what they felt all during the book and never encountered anything to sway them.  A person making a decision from past experience and then vieiwng the world in that vein is not fanatacism.  They simply were never presented with a situation strong enough to change.

[Beerfish]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

And when I say worthy I mean they stuck to their beleifs from beginning to end and totally beleived in what they were doing, good or ill.

Why do you paint fantacism as a virtue?

My thoughts exactly.  I don't think being conflicted about a complex is issue is a flaw necessarily either...

It is when your motives are almost purely sellfish.

[TK514]

The less in game that comes specifically from Asunder, the better.

[Martyr1777]

Beerfish wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

And when I say worthy I mean they stuck to their beleifs from beginning to end and totally beleived in what they were doing, good or ill.

Why do you paint fanatacism as a virtue?

Now, I haven't read Asunder, but that's what you just described. A good man should question and doubt. Believers are scary.

Both of them had already questioned and doubted and came to a conclusuion as to how things need to be dealt with.  They then stuck to what they felt all during the book and never encountered anything to sway them.  A person making a decision from past experience and then vieiwng the world in that vein is not fanatacism.  They simply were never presented with a situation strong enough to change.

I think your reasoning is very flawed. Lambert wasnt even willing to consider options or alteratives to his own thoughts. He was very flawed as a person and very one dimentional as a character. Its not being wishy washy when someone opens your eyes to new posibilities. Nor is it convition to stand by your beleifs -if- you arent willing to consider others, its just being stubborn closed minded and ignorant.

I think Rhys, Evangiline (sp?), and Cole were by far the most complex and interesting characters.

And lambert was an ass.

[Beerfish]

Martyr1777 wrote...



I think your reasoning is very flawed. Lambert wasnt even willing to consider options or alteratives to his own thoughts. He was very flawed as a person and very one dimentional as a character. Its not being wishy washy when someone opens your eyes to new posibilities. Nor is it convition to stand by your beleifs -if- you arent willing to consider others, its just being stubborn closed minded and ignorant.

I think Rhys, Evangiline (sp?), and Cole were by far the most complex and interesting characters.

And lambert was an ass.

It was explained that Lambert WAS very open minded earlier in life and events in his life made him come to decisions and shaped his life.  He was not flawed at all as far as his life experience shaping his future behaviour.

Cole was a very intersting character no doubt about it.  He was also a serial killer.

Rhys was just incredibly selfish the whole book.  He did what he wanted be damn the consequences  through the whole book constantly putting others in peril.  The fact that he did it with a joke and smile means nothing at all.  He was naive, stupid and very selfish right up to things that affect his own mother, and Evangeline who ended up being a traitor of the very worst sort.

[ziloe]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

ziloe wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

ziloe wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

StickySalarian wrote...

 I would actually adore to have Cole as a companion. He's easily one of the most intriguing Dragon age characters, if not the most, and I do want to learn more about him. 
Plus, how would he deal with people being able to see him? Would he feel remorse for the mages he killed, would he tell you about Rhys and whatnot?

I'm praying he is the Asunder character we get! If not him, then I want Adrian. 

nah they sucks i prefer lambert to be companion he is badass not like other loosers in this book. 

I hope both of you were joking, because both Lambert and Adrian had no sense of patience.

I don't care about adrian evangeline kicked her ass in one second and she couldn't shut up , lambert is awsome maybe he isn't good guy be you don't have to be one to be good character. Lambert took almost all divine forces and tell divine to f*** off what shows that he is much better leader than she is , he win in the end he want war with mages he got that. 

From what we've seen from the leaked info on characters, most don't seem like entirely great people... so to add Lambert to that list, no thanks. I really, really hope we get more characters like Alistair. 

I wasn't at all crazy for most of the characters in DA2 either, to be completely honest.

cassandra and varric (lol varric become moral compass) seems to be one like alistair just cassandra thinks that sacrifice is good and this mage i don't know what her character will be. We don't get single "evil" character as companion in da except morrigan which was stupid evil character so no thanks for alistair or grey characters i want finally guy who will backstab us without blinking and will be utterly ruthless in his goal like bishop from nwn 2.

I would be glad if we get neutral evil or lawful evil companion.

Morrigan wasn't evil. She just had her own interests in mind too, and I think that's a very human thing for anyone, and not evil at all.

[Martyr1777]

Beerfish wrote...

Martyr1777 wrote...



I think your reasoning is very flawed. Lambert wasnt even willing to consider options or alteratives to his own thoughts. He was very flawed as a person and very one dimentional as a character. Its not being wishy washy when someone opens your eyes to new posibilities. Nor is it convition to stand by your beleifs -if- you arent willing to consider others, its just being stubborn closed minded and ignorant.

I think Rhys, Evangiline (sp?), and Cole were by far the most complex and interesting characters.

And lambert was an ass.

It was explained that Lambert WAS very open minded earlier in life and events in his life made him come to decisions and shaped his life.  He was not flawed at all as far as his life experience shaping his future behaviour.

Cole was a very intersting character no doubt about it.  He was also a serial killer.

Rhys was just incredibly selfish the whole book.  He did what he wanted be damn the consequences  through the whole book constantly putting others in peril.  The fact that he did it with a joke and smile means nothing at all.  He was naive, stupid and very selfish right up to things that affect his own mother, and Evangeline who ended up being a traitor of the very worst sort.

Ok, we dont know facts of Lamberts past. But even if his past shaped him it changes nothing. Rhys and the mages were shaped by their past but Rhys changed his thinking many times. If you go with your thinking then all the mages are horrifically stupid since they all trusted him to make the call. Even those that opposed him didnt try to clame he was a selfish fool. He was very human, he made judgemental errors and was open to change, unlike Lambert. The humor was just a mask for his fear, very common trait really.

I do so love the 'Cole is a murder!' bit. Yeah he killed people is a society where they throw life away without a thought. Wardens murder someone to afraid to drink darkspawn blood. Orlisian nobles sound like the kill commoners for sport. But worst of all, Templars and the Chantry, those who -created- Cole, whatever he is. They tell mages you have to purposely risk possession and death to prove you are skilled enough to exist. If they are to fearful to try then they just hae their soul torched out of them. Yeah Cole killings I'll take any day of they week, at least he shows remorse and compassion.

[Eveangaline]

Not having read Asunder, I have to ask..what exactly is Cole?

[PeterBazooka]

Eveangaline wrote...

Not having read Asunder, I have to ask..what exactly is Cole?

As someone else who has not read Asunder I gather that he's some sort of ghost that causes temporary amnesia in people.

Modifié par PeterBazooka, 11 septembre 2013 - 02:52 .

[duckley]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Zack_Nero wrote...

As much as I would love to have Evangeline as a companion, if we are having a templar companion it'll most likely be Cullen before her.

I rather not have Cullen as a companion. He isn't all that bright. His lack of intellgience would be the downfall of my inquisition organzation if he was allowed to toggle along.

And as far as Evangeline goes I haven't yet read Asunder so I have no comments.

What makes you think Cullen lacks intellegence? I am by no means saying he is smart, but I dont recall anything about his appearances that suggests he isnt bright.

[Magdalena11]

Eveangaline wrote...

Not having read Asunder, I have to ask..what exactly is Cole?

Cole was a mage that was captured in adolescence after having (justifiably) murdered his father and accidentally killing his sister.  He was brought to Kinloch tower and beaten and left for dead.  During the time he was in the tower prison, he was approached by  a demon or spirit that stayed with him when even the templars who put him there had forgotten about him.  When Cole eventually died of neglect, the spirit took over and assumed Cole's personality.  Because of the doubt surrounding its existence, the spirit felt compelled to murder others to maintain its own existence.  The spirit was a bit confused and didn't know it wasn't Cole all along, but thanks to the Seeker Lambert, it eventually learned and was weakened.  The last we see of Cole and Lambert is ambiguous. It is strongly implied that Lambert met his end in the same way the spirit's other victims did, but it isn't spelled out.

I highly recommend reading Asunder as it does a much better job of explaining Cole. 

[TK514]

Martyr1777 wrote...

If you go with your thinking then all the mages are horrifically stupid since they all trusted him to make the call.

Well...yes.  I thought that the Mage ranks being full of idiots was common knowledge.

[Eveangaline]

Magdalena11 wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

Not having read Asunder, I have to ask..what exactly is Cole?

Cole was a mage that was captured in adolescence after having (justifiably) murdered his father and accidentally killing his sister.  He was brought to Kinloch tower and beaten and left for dead.  During the time he was in the tower prison, he was approached by  a demon or spirit that stayed with him when even the templars who put him there had forgotten about him.  When Cole eventually died of neglect, the spirit took over and assumed Cole's personality.  Because of the doubt surrounding its existence, the spirit felt compelled to murder others to maintain its own existence.  The spirit was a bit confused and didn't know it wasn't Cole all along, but thanks to the Seeker Lambert, it eventually learned and was weakened.  The last we see of Cole and Lambert is ambiguous. It is strongly implied that Lambert met his end in the same way the spirit's other victims did, but it isn't spelled out.

I highly recommend reading Asunder as it does a much better job of explaining Cole. 

Well that's kind of terrifying.

[ultimatekotorfan]

Zippy72 wrote...

Cole died; all that remains is a demon. The Inquisition is formed to fight demons - so I don't see how Cole could work as a party member?

The only people who know what he is would be Rhys, Evangeline, Adrian, Shale, and Lambert (assuming he's even still alive. The devs have also stated that the books/comics is mostly to give people who choose to read them more insight into the games, so to anyone who didn't read Asunder, he would just be a creepy young man. I can see him working.

[Martyr1777]

I think the reality is no one knows exactly what Cole is, which is part of his draw. Yes the basics are there, but there are questions about is he a spirit, is he a possessed person, is he something else an anomaly.

This is why I hope to see him play a big role in inquisition, preferably a companion but if not just a often seen NPC. Errr, I guess that's often not seen and forgotten in his case.

[leaguer of one]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Fetunche wrote...

Lambert was a dick, hopefully a dead one.

yep he was but still badass and awesome i don't need another leliana , alistair or merril as goody goody with life what sucks characters as well i don't emo like fenris or anders such chracater would be refreshing.And if he is dead that would be disappointing he would be worthy opponent for my mage or more pr*** companion.

Liliann was hardly goody goody and Merril brough her suffering on to herself.

[leaguer of one]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

ziloe wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

ziloe wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

StickySalarian wrote...

 I would actually adore to have Cole as a companion. He's easily one of the most intriguing Dragon age characters, if not the most, and I do want to learn more about him. 
Plus, how would he deal with people being able to see him? Would he feel remorse for the mages he killed, would he tell you about Rhys and whatnot?

I'm praying he is the Asunder character we get! If not him, then I want Adrian. 

nah they sucks i prefer lambert to be companion he is badass not like other loosers in this book. 

I hope both of you were joking, because both Lambert and Adrian had no sense of patience.

I don't care about adrian evangeline kicked her ass in one second and she couldn't shut up , lambert is awsome maybe he isn't good guy be you don't have to be one to be good character. Lambert took almost all divine forces and tell divine to f*** off what shows that he is much better leader than she is , he win in the end he want war with mages he got that. 

From what we've seen from the leaked info on characters, most don't seem like entirely great people... so to add Lambert to that list, no thanks. I really, really hope we get more characters like Alistair. 

I wasn't at all crazy for most of the characters in DA2 either, to be completely honest.

cassandra and varric (lol varric become moral compass) seems to be one like alistair just cassandra thinks that sacrifice is good and this mage i don't know what her character will be. We don't get single "evil" character as companion in da except morrigan which was stupid evil character so no thanks for alistair or grey characters i want finally guy who will backstab us without blinking and will be utterly ruthless in his goal like bishop from nwn 2.

I would be glad if we get neutral evil or lawful evil companion.

Morrigan was nearther stupid nor evil. In fact da is a grey moral series, you're not going to get a straight alinment for anyone.

[leaguer of one]

Beerfish wrote...

Fetunche wrote...

Lambert was a dick, hopefully a dead one.

Lambert and the red headed mage were the only worthy characters in the game.  And when I say worthy I mean they stuck to their beleifs from beginning to end and totally beleived in what they were doing, good or ill.

The characters that people fall all over in the books were traiterous, selfish, wishy washy and caused more harm than the other two.  (That being Rhys, Evangeline, Cole, Wynne. Leliana)

Dave Gaider did a superior job of writing in this book because he painted a nice picture of those people and yet their actions were far worse the ones he painted as being bad.  Brilliant job of writing.

By doing so they made the mage-templor war worse. How are mind sets stuck in a concept of no compromise good? That make things worse.

[leaguer of one]

Beerfish wrote...

Martyr1777 wrote...



I think your reasoning is very flawed. Lambert wasnt even willing to consider options or alteratives to his own thoughts. He was very flawed as a person and very one dimentional as a character. Its not being wishy washy when someone opens your eyes to new posibilities. Nor is it convition to stand by your beleifs -if- you arent willing to consider others, its just being stubborn closed minded and ignorant.

I think Rhys, Evangiline (sp?), and Cole were by far the most complex and interesting characters.

And lambert was an ass.

It was explained that Lambert WAS very open minded earlier in life and events in his life made him come to decisions and shaped his life.  He was not flawed at all as far as his life experience shaping his future behaviour.

Cole was a very intersting character no doubt about it.  He was also a serial killer.

Rhys was just incredibly selfish the whole book.  He did what he wanted be damn the consequences  through the whole book constantly putting others in peril.  The fact that he did it with a joke and smile means nothing at all.  He was naive, stupid and very selfish right up to things that affect his own mother, and Evangeline who ended up being a traitor of the very worst sort.

1.What you not getting is that he place an abolute concept on mages in the end, which is the worse thing to do with any group of people. This thing is the cause of the mage templar war. It's one thing to see a possible hazard with mages, it's another to lable every hazard of mage with it.
2. The issue with Rhy's was he was selflass, not selfish. He wanted to help others reguadless to what happen to himself and is a very open person to others feeling. What cause problem with him is how reckless he is about it. 

[ziloe]

Eveangaline wrote...

Magdalena11 wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

Not having read Asunder, I have to ask..what exactly is Cole?

Cole was a mage that was captured in adolescence after having (justifiably) murdered his father and accidentally killing his sister.  He was brought to Kinloch tower and beaten and left for dead.  During the time he was in the tower prison, he was approached by  a demon or spirit that stayed with him when even the templars who put him there had forgotten about him.  When Cole eventually died of neglect, the spirit took over and assumed Cole's personality.  Because of the doubt surrounding its existence, the spirit felt compelled to murder others to maintain its own existence.  The spirit was a bit confused and didn't know it wasn't Cole all along, but thanks to the Seeker Lambert, it eventually learned and was weakened.  The last we see of Cole and Lambert is ambiguous. It is strongly implied that Lambert met his end in the same way the spirit's other victims did, but it isn't spelled out.

I highly recommend reading Asunder as it does a much better job of explaining Cole. 

Well that's kind of terrifying.

Cole really isn't that bad. People keep calling him a murderer, but they seem to forget that the Mages we were shown, who were killed by him, were evil mages. Seriously, the first Mage we read about that Cole kills, claims that she enjoyed burning the people alive in the farm. So if anything, he's actually doing a service to the Circle, by removing any threat to the other's livelihood via them being potentially amongst terrible people who could give them a bad name just by association. 

[ziloe]

Martyr1777 wrote...

I think the reality is no one knows exactly what Cole is, which is part of his draw. Yes the basics are there, but there are questions about is he a spirit, is he a possessed person, is he something else an anomaly.

This is why I hope to see him play a big role in inquisition, preferably a companion but if not just a often seen NPC. Errr, I guess that's often not seen and forgotten in his case.

I imagine the person he was, has sort of faded/whithered away, literally leaving a shadow in its place that utilizes blood magic to retake its form.

[TheKomandorShepard]

[quote]leaguer of one wrote...


[/quote]Morrigan was nearther stupid nor evil. In fact da is a grey moral series, you're not going to get a straight alinment for anyone.
[/quote]

Of course if i burn your home with you and your family because it is funny i won't be evil only gray.

grey moral series it doesn't mean that everything must be gray please and it shouldn't be such way because it could be as well game where everyone is pure goody two shoes.

[quote]leaguer of one wrote...

[quote]TheKomandorShepard wrote...

[quote]Fetunche wrote...

Lambert was a dick, hopefully a dead one.[/quote]

yep
he was but still badass and awesome i don't need another leliana ,
alistair or merril as goody goody with life what sucks characters as
well i don't emo like fenris or anders such chracater would be
refreshing.And if he is dead that would be disappointing he would be
worthy opponent for my mage or more pr*** companion.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]

[/quote]Liliann was hardly goody goody and Merril brough her suffering on to herself.
[/quote]
She was at least in first game maybe she pretending but still she act in that way through entire game , i would say that idiots and and intolerance bring suffering on her practically she didn't harm antyhing and others harm themselves.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:36 .