192 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

I'll admit, I love Breaking Bad and it hits close to home (which is something I appreciate) but the whole **** arch is frustrating me, it seems out-of-place and there for no apparent reason for them to exist when they could've done anything else.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 16 septembre 2013 - 02:43 .

[Kalas747]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

Walter's treatment of Jesse in the desert has to be him at his most despicable, and his self-centered venting at .

I thought walt had at least some honor or redeeming quality left but instead he gets self-righteous and blames Jesse for Hanks death which Walt himself clearly caused.

I would have rather seen Walt not mention Jesse and then have them go after those guys together.  But it doesn't seem like walt is planning anything from here, just reacting to everything that he lost control of.

[Naughty Bear]

I had a feeling Jesse would end up getting tortured/beaten. But holy ****, Hank's scene was intense, with Walt popping up with another reason to stop them.

That look Walter had in his eyes to me, indicate a nastier and more uglier version of Walter is going to come out to play soon. He isn't going to let this slide.

And judging by the preview promo's, Skyler and Walt Jr may be next.

[TheChris92]

Breaking Bad is something else - It's that kinda show where the drama truly hits home as it feels genuinely human. The idea with having the protagonist becoming a villain is interesting as well, toying with the audience, making him more despicable so eventually we'll root for the "antagonists". The Sopranos had something similar going on but with a main difference -- The sharp contrast between Walter & Gandolfni's(may he rest in peace) Tony Soprano is Walter “deliberately abandons the light for the darkness” while Tony is “someone born and raised in darkness” who keeps rejecting opportunities “to claw his way upward into the light”. The fascinating part is that the audience still remains on Walter's side, at least a lot people I know, despite what he's done throughout all of these 5 seasons so far. Perhaps it's because of the character itself and not so much his morality and how one can relate to him, what he is doing, why he was doing it. At this point he has no motive, no goal, he's got nothing anymore. It's that kinda of drama that makes this show so intense, and it reminds me of a movie I watched recently revolving around a very sensitive subject which was also quite close to him. I believe Breaking Bad is truly a great achievement within the crime drama genre -- It's characters such as Jesse, Saul, Mike, Walt, Gus, Hank, Skyler, are all genuinely well done on every level. Can't wait to see what Gilligan will do after ending it all.

Modifié par TheChris92, 16 septembre 2013 - 05:01 .

[JewelsWinnfield]

Cap. Obvious wrote...

I think Jesse's going to be saved by Walt.

After Walt told Skyler on the phone that he still has unfinished business to attend to, I immediately assumed that he's planning on saving Jesse from the White Supremacists as well. However, after thinking about it, I don't believe that Jesse will ever be able to forgive Walt for poisoning Brock (and now there's Jane's death on top of that), and I think Walt knows that. Maybe Walt is purely out for revenge on Jack and his gang when he comes back to ABQ, not even considering that Jesse may be still alive. Then again, Walt might suspect that they force Jesse to cook for them since he's the only master chef left. I'm not sure what I'd prefer, probably the former.

About Hank's death: I liked Hank for the most part (except when he used Jesse to get to Walt and didn't care if he was killed in the process), but I'm neither shocked nor particularly sad that he died, because of the way the last episode ended (how did he survive the shootout anyway) and because I want Jesse to be the person who brings Walt to justice.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I'm wondering if Walt's remaining "things to do" that he alluded to on the phone are necessarily related to what we've seen in the flash-forwards. He's turning 52 in the first one, and I believe his 51st birthday was in a relatively recent episode. Plus, he's evidently decided to make use of Saul's "disappearance" option that Jesse was previously set to take. I don't see him doing that if he still expects to be around in Albuquerque in the near future.
 
Now that I think about it, maybe he just said that to scare Skyler and/or throw her off the trail and isn't planning anything in particular beyond dropping off Holly and hightailing it out of town.

[Addai]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'll admit, I love Breaking Bad and it hits close to home (which is something I appreciate) but the whole **** arch is frustrating me, it seems out-of-place and there for no apparent reason for them to exist when they could've done anything else.

I don't see it as out of place.  It's a natural progression from Walt having to build an organization to take over from Gus. He believed he could do it better and cleaner than Gus and the writers are showing that that was not just an illusion, but he himself was finally going to reap what he had sown.  They've made no references to the guys' ideology except for the tattoos, so even calling it a N*zi arc is inaccurate IMO.  It's just another brand of strongman.

The biggest mystery to me from this episode is whether Walt was speaking to Skyler on the phone, or to the police he knew were listening.  I can't decide.  I'm leaning towards that he did it on purpose to show that Skyler was forced to do what she did. The kicker is, the things he said were also natural to the Heisenberg persona, which is what makes it difficult to decide.  This show is just brilliantly written.

Modifié par Addai67, 16 septembre 2013 - 10:24 .

[Kalas747]

Addai67 wrote...
  They've made no references to the guys' ideology except for the tattoos, so even calling it a N*zi arc is inaccurate IMO.  It's just another brand of strongman.

I know, those are obviously prison tattoos.  Quit calling these guys Nazis.  They have no ideology and are mercenaries.

As far as Walt having reasoning behind his breakdown in front of Skyler, that's an interesting theory.  I honestly thought he just lost it because for the first time in the show he had nobody backing him up and he lost the reason he went into the drug trade in the first place. 

Kinda sad that Gilligan said Ozymandias was to be the best episode of the season.  I would hate for some kind of two episode slow wind down.

Modifié par Kalas747, 17 septembre 2013 - 12:13 .

[Brockololly]

Addai67 wrote...
I don't see it as out of place.  It's a natural progression from Walt having to build an organization to take over from Gus. He believed he could do it better and cleaner than Gus and the writers are showing that that was not just an illusion, but he himself was finally going to reap what he had sown.  They've made no references to the guys' ideology except for the tattoos, so even calling it a N*zi arc is inaccurate IMO.  It's just another brand of strongman.

Yeah, I mean, it was Walt trying to get more power and basically getting in bed with bad people in order to exercise his power with the whole prison murder spree. So to have those guys basically end up getting out of control makes sense.

The Na*zi crew with Todd and everyone makes perfect sense to me. Just shows that when Walt does these impulsive and emotional things, that's usually when he ends up screwing up. He's gotten more and more emotional and in this case, it got out of hand.

Addai67 wrote...
The biggest mystery to me from this episode is whether Walt was speaking to Skyler on the phone, or to the police he knew were listening.  I can't decide.  I'm leaning towards that he did it on purpose to show that Skyler was forced to do what she did. The kicker is, the things he said were also natural to the Heisenberg persona, which is what makes it difficult to decide.  This show is just brilliantly written.

That's the great thing about it. Its probably the most honest and open Walt has ever been, yet at the same time, he's basically playing up the villain role there to try and exonerate Skyler and his family in anything he's done. He's pulling a Dark Knight and taking all the heat because in his mind, he can take it. But what he's saying works both ways in that from his Heisenberg half, he is an ice cold **** that would lay down that sort of verbal beatdown to Skyler but as you can see when he's crying when he's saying all that, its also what can maybe get his family off the hook for his actions

[Addai]

The writers apparently confirmed that it was Walt using the Heisenberg persona to try to exonerate Skyler to the police.

Interesting to note that it was really Mike who sent Walt down that path, by not following his own precepts in having dead drops at various random locations and trusting the lawyer to do his payoffs for him. That's what really sent things unraveling.

I miss Mike.

[GodWood]

Poor Hule's still waiting.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Called it with Gomey's death!

Addai67 wrote...
The biggest mystery to me from this episode is whether Walt was speaking to Skyler on the phone, or to the police he knew were listening.  I can't decide.  I'm leaning towards that he did it on purpose to show that Skyler was forced to do what she did. The kicker is, the things he said were also natural to the Heisenberg persona, which is what makes it difficult to decide.  This show is just brilliantly written.

I didn't even realise he was trying to exonerate Skyler, but it's obvious he didn't mean it since he was crying and he returned Holly. and of course Walt could never be that stupid to believe she's alone.

Although his revenge on Jesse was downright evil, this episode actually puts Walt in a fairly decent light in that it shows Walt still places his family far above himself- he was willing to give up everything to save Hank, and couldn't take Holly when he realised she missed mum. And really, it's his anguish at Hank's death that causes such venom against Jesse. It may be misplaced, but he is at least technically partly responsible, and from Walt's point of view it's easy to see how his loss of everything could be blamed on Jesse. In essence he's never lost what made him get into the business in the first place.

Todd is at it again with his polarising ways. His saving mr. white, I mean walt was admirable, and then I thought he was going to let Jesse go in exchange for teaching him to cook or something, but instead he goes does what is probably the most evil thing on the show yet.

Cap. Obvious wrote...

I think Jesse's going to be saved by Walt.

I doubt it, why would he undo what he went after to cause all this  trouble in the first place? And isn't he basically dead to Walt's knowledge? The only reason Walt could save Jesse is if he needs his help again. I really wished the two could have ended on a good note at least with each other

Modifié par fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb, 17 septembre 2013 - 09:25 .

[DragonRacer]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

Definitely an intense episode, and one that really showed the extent to which Walter's decisions are catching up to him. I'm a little concerned about how important Todd and Jack are becoming, though - they're OK as plot devices and symbols, but they aren't all that interesting as characters, IMO. I'm not sure I want to see Jesse's fate tied too closely to whatever's going on between Todd, Jack, and Lydia. I'm assuming that Todd hasn't told the rest of them that Jesse is still alive and is planning to keeping his involvement in the cooking secret, but whatever conflict that might arise if that's the case isn't one that interests me much.

Walter's treatment of Jesse in the desert has to be him at his most despicable, and his self-centered venting at Skyler seemed like more of the same at first. But someone pointed out that he's arguably de-implicating her by emphasizing his own role in the drug business and her discomfort with it, and you'd think he would know better than to believe that the police aren't monitoring the line. I also wondered if he thought it might actually make Skyler and Walt Jr. a little safer - if he simultaneously scares them and gives them more of a reason to hate him, they might be glad just to see the back of him rather than harbor any inclinations to try to track him down.

I'm not a Walt-defender in the least - I never liked him even at the very beginning - but the fact that he's crying (while trying not to let Skyler hear it) and leaves Holly at the fire station did make me wonder if he was doing something more than just spouting off.

As horrific as that phone call was, I think it was Walt giving Skyler a "get out of jail free card". By taking it all on himself and using classic abuser lines, it would make the police (that he'd know were listening in) view Skylar as a helpless victim in all this, rather than his willing accomplice.

Just my opinion, though.

EDIT: Ninja'd so hard. Should really read rest of thread before posting. LOL

Modifié par DragonRacer, 17 septembre 2013 - 11:54 .

[Addai]

People keep saying "Walt is too smart to know the police aren't on the phone," but that's exactly what he forgot in the heat of the moment the episode before. But anyway, in this case he really was acting. The writers were surprised that people didn't get it, but I think it's because what he was saying was authentic Heisenberg crap.

[FlyingSquirrel]

The main concern I have about the white supremacists is that it might seem like Walt's getting off a little too easy if he comes back to Albuquerque to confront them on behalf of his family and/or Jesse. Is Walt less detestable than they are? I suppose, but that's nothing to write home about. I just want the show to end with Walt having to really face up to all the horrible things he's done.

[Brockololly]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

The main concern I have about the white supremacists is that it might seem like Walt's getting off a little too easy if he comes back to Albuquerque to confront them on behalf of his family and/or Jesse. Is Walt less detestable than they are? I suppose, but that's nothing to write home about. I just want the show to end with Walt having to really face up to all the horrible things he's done.

I don't think Walt is getting off easy. I mean, his whole thing has been running this dual life as Heisenberg and Walter White where he's able to keep the money from his cooks and still live a "normal" family life.

His family life is completely screwed over and done now after Hank was killed and on top of that, the Matt Damon clone Todd and the ****s took the majority of his money. Now, he still has 11 million but I can't imagine Walt with his huge ego is too happy about giving up the other 69 million.

And he presumably still has terminal cancer. So Walt is pretty much screwed no matter what. His family hates him. He lost most of his money he did so many terrible things to accumulate and if he doesn't die sooner rather than later, his cancer will kill him before too long.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Brockololly wrote...

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

The main concern I have about the white supremacists is that it might seem like Walt's getting off a little too easy if he comes back to Albuquerque to confront them on behalf of his family and/or Jesse. Is Walt less detestable than they are? I suppose, but that's nothing to write home about. I just want the show to end with Walt having to really face up to all the horrible things he's done.

I don't think Walt is getting off easy. I mean, his whole thing has been running this dual life as Heisenberg and Walter White where he's able to keep the money from his cooks and still live a "normal" family life.

His family life is completely screwed over and done now after Hank was killed and on top of that, the Matt Damon clone Todd and the ****s took the majority of his money. Now, he still has 11 million but I can't imagine Walt with his huge ego is too happy about giving up the other 69 million.

And he presumably still has terminal cancer. So Walt is pretty much screwed no matter what. His family hates him. He lost most of his money he did so many terrible things to accumulate and if he doesn't die sooner rather than later, his cancer will kill him before too long.

I agree that if this were real life, he is not getting off easy - I'm talking about how it's represented on-screen. I just think that the last we see of Walt should not be him fighting the N*zi gang. Even if he does something honorable at the end, Skyler, Marie, and Flynn would not be able to just forget everything that happened before that. The final scene of the show should still capture that alienation regardless of whether he comes back for unselfish purposes or not.

And I'm kind of confused about the cancer. There seems to be some passage of time between his exit from Albuquerque and his return in the flash-forwards - unless time has been progressing faster in Season 5, wouldn't he likely be close to six months, if not past it, by the time he returns? So I'm wondering if the cancer is actually going to get him any time soon. He could certainly continue paying for treatment while on the run given that he has 11 million dollars.

[Addai]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

The main concern I have about the white supremacists is that it might seem like Walt's getting off a little too easy if he comes back to Albuquerque to confront them on behalf of his family and/or Jesse. Is Walt less detestable than they are? I suppose, but that's nothing to write home about. I just want the show to end with Walt having to really face up to all the horrible things he's done.

The gang is serving as one means by which Walt is forced to confront his own rationalization and the consequences of what he's done. They're only at that place because he called them in. Frank uses Heisenberg language to justify his actions, putting Walt in the same spot that Gus was in years before when another detestable guy showed him how the drug world works.

I don't know why people are hung up on the N*zi gang.  They just represent what the show has depicted all along, that events will get out of control and blow back despite Walt's illusions.

[DragonRacer]

Addai67 wrote...

People keep saying "Walt is too smart to know the police aren't on the phone," but that's exactly what he forgot in the heat of the moment the episode before. But anyway, in this case he really was acting. The writers were surprised that people didn't get it, but I think it's because what he was saying was authentic Heisenberg crap.

I see those two phone calls as completely separate animals. In the week's prior phone call, when Jesse called threatening to burn Walt's money, Walt didn't initiate that call. He was caught unawares with his former partner threatening the very thing he broke bad to accumulate for his family. I see that whole scene as Walt caught completely off-guard and in panic mode to save his nest egg, so he was emotional, panicked, and not thinking clearly. Easy for me to believe he totally brained on realizing the whole thing was a police set-up ruse.

In Sunday night's call, Walt initiated it. He'd just left the house, kidnapping his daughter, and hearing Flynn dial 9-1-1 on the way out. Obviously the police would be visiting his home shortly. So, I see him being in complete and total control of that call and, so, believable that he'd know there'd be police presence there listening in.

Just my observation.

[Ophir147]

So the season has gone on and Walter has only gotten... less evil? Earnestly trying to make a clean exit from the business while minimizing collateral as much as possible.

Is there anyone that actually believes that Walter has gone full Scarface yet? Or do you think the writers have kind of drifted away from that concept over the years in pursuit of more interesting storylines? Or even that he is going to end the series with his first truly evil act with no possible justification???

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

DragonRacer wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

People keep saying "Walt is too smart to know the police aren't on the phone," but that's exactly what he forgot in the heat of the moment the episode before. But anyway, in this case he really was acting. The writers were surprised that people didn't get it, but I think it's because what he was saying was authentic Heisenberg crap.

I see those two phone calls as completely separate animals. In the week's prior phone call, when Jesse called threatening to burn Walt's money, Walt didn't initiate that call. He was caught unawares with his former partner threatening the very thing he broke bad to accumulate for his family. I see that whole scene as Walt caught completely off-guard and in panic mode to save his nest egg, so he was emotional, panicked, and not thinking clearly. Easy for me to believe he totally brained on realizing the whole thing was a police set-up ruse.

In Sunday night's call, Walt initiated it. He'd just left the house, kidnapping his daughter, and hearing Flynn dial 9-1-1 on the way out. Obviously the police would be visiting his home shortly. So, I see him being in complete and total control of that call and, so, believable that he'd know there'd be police presence there listening in.

Just my observation.

Exactly, and he'd never thought that Jesse would turn grass.

Also I really liked what one reviewer said about the two calls in that episode

" It’s one of his first lies to her regarding his criminal life, and the phone call at the end of Ozymandias
could possibly be his last. But in both scenes, he’s lying in order to
protect her from a grim reality: in the first, it’s that he’s in the
meth business, in the second, it’s that she was in the meth business."

[Kalas747]

GodWood wrote...

Poor Hule's still waiting.

Hule is the real protaganist of breaking bad.

[Addai]

Ophir147 wrote...

So the season has gone on and Walter has only gotten... less evil? Earnestly trying to make a clean exit from the business while minimizing collateral as much as possible.

Is there anyone that actually believes that Walter has gone full Scarface yet? Or do you think the writers have kind of drifted away from that concept over the years in pursuit of more interesting storylines? Or even that he is going to end the series with his first truly evil act with no possible justification???

I think Walt is more horrific than a thug who just enjoys violence.  He's clever and ambitious, and as a result of his machinations, he reaps far more suffering than a petty thug could on his own.  Lydia is the same kind of person.  She's smart and resourceful, and then wants to close her ears and eyes to the consequences of her actions.  I don't think Walt is less evil, not at all. Everything that's happening is the result of his actions, and finally he's having to face the reality that his ego had helped to hide from him.

[Isichar]

1 more week left! Can't wait to see how it all ends up.