280 réponses à ce sujet

[Hey]

<------ obviously

If you cure the genophage, i would definitely put the krogan on the council, STAT!

[TheMyron]

Massa FX wrote...

Under destroy -
Javik
Volus
Elcor
Krogan
Edit: Quarians & Hanar too. Each race should be represented. Even Leviathan.

Under control - Harbinger
Under synthesis - abolish the council

I agree with Javik, the Leviathans can stay in their personal Hell as punishment for creating the Reapers. Plus, they can't be trusted.

[Display Name Owner]

The Volus probably deserve it for basically putting together the galactic economy. I reckon the fact that they haven't gotten a seat yet is because the Council races don't want them having that much power. IIRC, they have a fairly strong grip on galactic economics, so maybe coupling that power with Council authority would make them stronger than the Council would like.

[Han Shot First]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Seeing as Council Law basically says 'shoot all Synthetics on sight', they don't really have the right to complain if the Quarians try to uphold that law but get their asses kicked in the process, do they?

No, but they also had no duty to intervene on the Quarian's behalf.

No ones saying they should, but kicking the Quarians off the Citadel and threatening them whenever they try to find a new planet or trade with them, while giving them absolutely zero aid or support despite having their entire society destroyed is just ridiculous.

I think the Council was justified in kicking them off the Citadel. But they should have allowed them to settle a suitable colony world, even if it meant diplomatically strong-arming another faction that had a claim to the planet. After all its not like the Council objects to strong-arm tactics or awarding claimed star systems to another species. That's exactly what they did when they awarded humanity exploration/colonization rights to much of the Skyllian Verge.

[The Night Mammoth]

Han Shot First wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Seeing as Council Law basically says 'shoot all Synthetics on sight', they don't really have the right to complain if the Quarians try to uphold that law but get their asses kicked in the process, do they?

No, but they also had no duty to intervene on the Quarian's behalf.

No ones saying they should, but kicking the Quarians off the Citadel and threatening them whenever they try to find a new planet or trade with them, while giving them absolutely zero aid or support despite having their entire society destroyed is just ridiculous.

I think the Council was justified in kicking them off the Citadel. But they should have allowed them to settle a suitable colony world, even if it meant diplomatically strong-arming another faction that had a claim to the planet. After all its not like the Council objects to strong-arm tactics or awarding claimed star systems to another species. That's exactly what they did when they awarded humanity exploration/colonization rights to much of the Skyllian Verge.

I don't remember the Council giving the rights to the Skyllian Verge to the Alliance, they just refused to block them or give exclusivity to the batarians. 

Anyway, I don't know why the quarians didn't just find a colony in the Terminus systems somwhere. That region is bigger than Council space. 

[pelojian]

In the aftermath at least with wrex, krogan&quarians get an embassy, geth are legally recognized as sentient lifeforms if they survived the war. asari government gets shaken up over the prothean beacon scandal.

It seems highly likely the volus would get a council seat as the asari, turian and salarian councilors would counterbalance the volus' desire to use the position to greatly profit.

the human councilor would probably side with the volus for economic reasons.

I think the Council was justified in kicking them off the Citadel. But they should have allowed them to settle a suitable colony world, even if it meant diplomatically strong-arming another faction that had a claim to the planet. After all its not like the Council objects to strong-arm tactics or awarding claimed star systems to another species. That's exactly what they did when they awarded humanity exploration/colonization rights to much of the Skyllian Verge.

It depends on how you interpret the skyllian verge issue.

In ME2 in jacob's loyalty mission you learn it's practice for human colonists to find a habitable planet stake a claim and establish a large enough presence i.e "claiming by occupation"

The batarians were "developing" the verge it does not state how. They could have setup colonies and laid claim through occupation and "intellectial colonisation rights" (i.e saying a planet is your property without establishing *any* presence on it)

In this case it is logical for the council to open to way for human colonisation on unoccupied worlds rather then agree with the batarians who think a verbal claim is enough to secure ownership.

[shodiswe]

The Batarians tried to claim a lot of worlds even if they didn't colonize them, and lacked the resources to colonize them. They just wanted to keep them for future use when they get big enough and strong enough to begin colonization.. maybe a few milenia down the road or something....
By reading thedescriptions it sounded liek most species took forever to get their colonies going while human colonies spread like a plague across the galaxy.

Which kind of freaked some people out.

Part of their sucess was that they didn't limit their resources to their own financial assets, they bargained and made deals with other powers, outside investors, Volus, Salarian, Asari.
Humanitys expansion through the galaxy was agressive swift and different to what the others were used to.

Instead of limiting their expansion to government funded and lead projects corporatiosn sought funding and the galaxy was full of people wanting to invest in interesting new ventures with promises of tapping untaped resources like worlds with huge chunks of valuable ore availalbe on the surface and more to be had just under it.
Never mind the scientific discoveries which also added new revenues.
Human colonization became a bussines venture.

While humanity might have had enough resources to finance 3 or 4 colonies the resources of businesses and retierment funds and other investors across the galaxy provided venture capital for several times the expansion rate.
This also helped earth economy hit a new golden age which only furthered new investors eagerness to be part of something great and profitable.

It seems humanity has trates of every species in the galaxy, and where ever there is oportunity a human will showup. Be it legitimate bussines, mercenary or piracy.

Before ME1 when the council wanted to punish humanity for illegal AI research the human ambassador just told them the economic repercussions and the effect it woudl have on galactic security would be severe and that humanity wouldn't accept it. The Council backed off because humanity had their fingers in almost every pie in the galaxy and buissineses and people allover the galaxy were heavily invested in operations and bussineses and partnerships within alliance space.

In essense, humanity were the new Volus who could threaten the council with their economic power that vastly exceeded what anyone would have expected simply because the whole galaxy had become conected with human bussineses in one way or another. And they had more teeth than the Volus, and far more stuborn and agressive when cornered.

So, this might be one more reason the Volus disliked humanity, they were playing the Volus economic game aswell as several others. Humanity did in decades what had taken others centuries or a milenia.

I do think the Volus would be well on their way to a council seat since they did provide a lot of backing and supplies to the war effort. Also they have been well on their way to get in since before humanity was discovered. The only thing speaking agasint them was that they had signed up to become a client race for the Turians.
The Turians already got them in leash they probably arn't that interested in making them a council species.

To me it seems a council seat is something you have to push hard to get, you get it when the council feels they got no choice and that it would cost more in the long run to fight back.
What I'm thinking is that the Volus didn't push hard enough.

Others like the Hanar don't seem that interested, it seems most Hanar stays on their own worlds, there are just a few traders and smuglers as well as one or two religious ummm you know, hanar who wants to spread the word of the enkindlers to others that leave their worlds.

The Elcor don't seem to be in a hurry either.

Tbh, it might not be in the interest of the Hanar or Elchor to care that much, they got their own interests. They are probably happy to just stay neutral.

The only interest the Quarians would have in the council before ME3 would be to make them attack the Geth.

Either the council stays the way it is or the Volus joins them.

The Krogan might get an embassy, don't think the council races want a Krogan councilor.
It's not even certain the Krogans actualy aspire to join the council, they just want planets to colonise, and other tangiable assets, not join a debaters club.
Eve is the only Krogan I can picture in the council chamber and even she would stick out.

Modifié par shodiswe, 11 septembre 2013 - 06:36 .

[TheMyron]

@shodiswe: It always made me wonder how the Batarians managed to annex at least one Asari world.

Are the Batarians the only people without any mood to share their colonized worlds?

Modifié par TheMyron, 11 septembre 2013 - 09:01 .

[Sir DeLoria]

Why was it justified to kick the Quarians off the Citadel? The Quarians tried to settle a few worlds in the Terminus, like Ekuna, but the Council threatened to bomb any Quarian colonies. Ekuna was given to the Elcor and the Quarians were forced off. I love the Council-.-

[SAmaster01]

Storywise, it either needs to be a new species who have a story focus on them trying to be a part of the council, much like Humanity from ME1. Historically, it's usually only the newcomers who get spots on the Council, the Asari and Salarians formed it when they met, the Turians were granted their seat sometime during or after the Krogan Rebellions, and Humans only about thirty years after their initial discovery following Saren's attack on the Citadel.

That's about it in a span longer than Human History (though in my head cannon I like to think both the Krogan and Batarians had a seat that they renounced following respective political events.)

The other species have defined reasons for not joining the council, or they would have done so before Humanity's discovery. Likely if one of the older species were to be granted a seat, it would be in a way that happens on the side, or out of view as the story is progressing. I mean imagine of the migrant outcast Quarians as we know them suddenly had the same political power as the Turians. Even if they made it make sense in universe, it would lack sense for the audience.

[Han Shot First]

TheMyron wrote...

@shodiswe: It always made me wonder how the Batarians managed to annex at least Asari world.

It was an independent world. Basically it was a lot like an Asari version of Horizon. A bunch of Asari went out and established a colony that had no formal connection to the Asari Republics. While there might be some benefits to being independent (less government regulation for example, like Illium) it also carries with it dangers. As an independent world they would not protected by the Asari Republic or Council Fleets, and in the event of war would also have much less manpower (woman power?) to draw on than a government that not only rules over the homeworld but also multiple star systems and colonies.

As it was one independent colony world versus the Hegemony, I would imagine the Hegemony could field a lot more ships and troops.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 11 septembre 2013 - 08:32 .

[TheMyron]

Han Shot First wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

@shodiswe: It always made me wonder how the Batarians managed to annex at least Asari world.

It was an independent world. Basically it was a lot like an Asari version of Horizon. A bunch of Asari went out and established a colony that had no formal connection to the Asari Republics. While there might be some benefits to being independent (less government regulation for example, like Illium) it also carries with it dangers. As an independent world they would not protected by the Asari Republic or Council Fleets, and in the event of war would also have much less manpower (woman power?) to draw on than a government that not only rules over the homeworld but also multiple star systems and colonies.

As it was one independent colony world versus the Hegemony, I would imagine the Hegemony could field a lot more ships and troops.

I always wondered what a Batarian slave camp looks like, too bad Shepard never got a chance to liberate one.

[Br3admax]

Necanor wrote...

Why was it justified to kick the Quarians off the Citadel?

You can't have an embassy for a planet you no longer have.

The Quarians tried to settle a few worlds in the Terminus, like Ekuna, but the Council threatened to bomb any Quarian colonies.

Maybe because they broke Council law and then tried to sneak onto another planet like nothing happened. And then when they were caught, they tried to do the right thing.

Ekuna was given to the Elcor and the Quarians were forced off. I love the Council-.-

They could not have even lived there for a long time. The planet has far to hostile a living enviroment for the quarians to live there long term. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 11 septembre 2013 - 09:10 .

[RZIBARA]

Br3ad wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Why was it justified to kick the Quarians off the Citadel?

You can't have an embassy for a planet you no longer have.

The Quarians tried to settle a few worlds in the Terminus, like Ekuna, but the Council threatened to bomb any Quarian colonies.

Maybe because they broke Council law and then tried to sneak onto another planet like nothing happened. And then when they were caught, they tried to do the right thing.

Ekuna was given to the Elcor and the Quarians were forced off. I love the Council-.-

They could not have even lived there for a long time. The planet has far to hostile a living enviroment for the quarians to live there long term. 

Necanor, do you like getting your ass handed to you?

[DuskWanderer]

The Council is supposed to provide fleets and supplies, and I'm not certain anyone is in a position after the war to offer it other than the salarians. Thessia, Palaven, and Earth were hit, HARD, and they have their own problems to deal with.

I'd go out on a limb and say the next race to be given Council status is the elcor. A high-gravity would be very hard for the Reapers to harvest completely given that their ground troops would have an immense amount of difficulty there. Plus, they don't get invaded until the very end of the war, so they don't have much to rebuild. Realistically, it's a move the asari would support, since the salarians, turians, and humans all have a shorter view of the universe, not to mention they'd be massively cheesed at the asari for withholding the information about Thessia's beacon (unlike the salarians holding the krogan females, what the asari did was actually illegal, and Asari High Command would be given harsh penalties)

Leads me to think the asari will want someone more like them. After that, probably the hanar, who the Reapers would have a lot of trouble harvesting since Reapers don't seem to function underwater. The quarians and the geth will probably get embassies, I doubt the krogan will get one until they fix their own tribal problems.

[TheMyron]

DuskWanderer wrote...

The Council is supposed to provide fleets and supplies, and I'm not certain anyone is in a position after the war to offer it other than the salarians. Thessia, Palaven, and Earth were hit, HARD, and they have their own problems to deal with.

I'd go out on a limb and say the next race to be given Council status is the elcor. A high-gravity would be very hard for the Reapers to harvest completely given that their ground troops would have an immense amount of difficulty there. Plus, they don't get invaded until the very end of the war, so they don't have much to rebuild. Realistically, it's a move the asari would support, since the salarians, turians, and humans all have a shorter view of the universe, not to mention they'd be massively cheesed at the asari for withholding the information about Thessia's beacon (unlike the salarians holding the krogan females, what the asari did was actually illegal, and Asari High Command would be given harsh penalties)

Leads me to think the asari will want someone more like them. After that, probably the hanar, who the Reapers would have a lot of trouble harvesting since Reapers don't seem to function underwater. The quarians and the geth will probably get embassies, I doubt the krogan will get one until they fix their own tribal problems.

What about secretly uplifting the Yahg for use against the people who should be thought of as allies?

[DuskWanderer]

TheMyron wrote...

DuskWanderer wrote...

The Council is supposed to provide fleets and supplies, and I'm not certain anyone is in a position after the war to offer it other than the salarians. Thessia, Palaven, and Earth were hit, HARD, and they have their own problems to deal with.

I'd go out on a limb and say the next race to be given Council status is the elcor. A high-gravity would be very hard for the Reapers to harvest completely given that their ground troops would have an immense amount of difficulty there. Plus, they don't get invaded until the very end of the war, so they don't have much to rebuild. Realistically, it's a move the asari would support, since the salarians, turians, and humans all have a shorter view of the universe, not to mention they'd be massively cheesed at the asari for withholding the information about Thessia's beacon (unlike the salarians holding the krogan females, what the asari did was actually illegal, and Asari High Command would be given harsh penalties)

Leads me to think the asari will want someone more like them. After that, probably the hanar, who the Reapers would have a lot of trouble harvesting since Reapers don't seem to function underwater. The quarians and the geth will probably get embassies, I doubt the krogan will get one until they fix their own tribal problems.

What about secretly uplifting the Yahg for use against the people who should be thought of as allies?

That's a violation of landing in a spot they shouldn't be, an offense, but not a large one. By contrast, it's stated in the Codex and during the game that withholding Prothean technology from the entire Council carries some of the harshest punishment in Citadel Space. 

[shodiswe]

RZIBARA wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Why was it justified to kick the Quarians off the Citadel?

You can't have an embassy for a planet you no longer have.

The Quarians tried to settle a few worlds in the Terminus, like Ekuna, but the Council threatened to bomb any Quarian colonies.

Maybe because they broke Council law and then tried to sneak onto another planet like nothing happened. And then when they were caught, they tried to do the right thing.

Ekuna was given to the Elcor and the Quarians were forced off. I love the Council-.-

They could not have even lived there for a long time. The planet has far to hostile a living enviroment for the quarians to live there long term. 

Necanor, do you like getting your ass handed to you?

Yeah, so it seems, the world wasn't fir for Quarian colonization, it was ideal for the Elcor however.
However, it might havebeen better to let the Quarians settle there so they stop bothering the galaxy and atempt to live on a world that's just wrong for them.

Since it wasn't fit for Quarians my guess was that they planned to start one of their stripming operations on an inhabitable world. Those are protected by council law.
It would have made the world less habitable by later colonists, like the Elcor.
The Quarians are known for such things, and their defence is that they are desperate for resources.
Not a Dextro world, heavy gravity... However it was rich on minerals.

Modifié par shodiswe, 12 septembre 2013 - 11:02 .

[Sir DeLoria]

Br3ad wrote...
You can't have an embassy for a planet you no longer have.

They lost their world for trying to enforce council law. I doubt the Asari would be treated equally if they lost Thessia.

Maybe because they broke Council law and then tried to sneak onto another planet like nothing happened. And then when they were caught, they tried to do the right thing.

It was an uncharted world and they were in a desperate situation, anyone else would've done the exact same.

They could not have even lived there for a long time. The planet has far to hostile a living enviroment for the quarians to live there long term. 

Like Fynn said, better than no world. If the Quarians want to settle a world, just let them, no matter if it's suited for them or not.

[Sir DeLoria]

shodiswe wrote...

Since it wasn't fit for Quarians my guess was that they planned to start one of their stripming operations on an inhabitable world. Those are protected by council law.
It would have made the world less habitable by later colonists, like the Elcor.
The Quarians are known for such things, and their defence is that they are desperate for resources.
Not a Dextro world, heavy gravity... However it was rich on minerals.

Have you ever considered that you do the exact same thing throughout all of ME2? In order to get the enormous amounts of ressources required for the most high-end research projects in the galaxy, you need to stripmine many dozen worlds. I also highly doubt all of these Cerberus mining operations were legal. 

[Br3admax]

Necanor wrote...

Br3ad wrote...
You can't have an embassy for a planet you no longer have.

They lost their world for trying to enforce council law. I doubt the Asari would be treated equally if they lost Thessia.

If the Asari caused the loss of their planet, they definitely would. If you can't defend yourself against yourself, you have no one to blame but you.

Maybe because they broke Council law and then tried to sneak onto another planet like nothing happened. And then when they were caught, they tried to do the right thing.

It was an uncharted world and they were in a desperate situation, anyone else would've done the exact same.

No, no one else would have fled to another planet instead of actually going to the Council. They tried to just act like nothing happend and ran to a random world. They did not inform the Council that they were taking a Council planet. They just took it and thought that everyone would be okay with it because everyone would feel sorry for them. 

They could not have even lived there for a long time. The planet has far to hostile a living enviroment for the quarians to live there long term. 

Like Fynn said, better than no world. If the Quarians want to settle a world, just let them, no matter if it's suited for them or not.

No. It is not okay to just excuse ignoring galactic law just becasue you already ignored galactic law. That makes no sense. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 12 septembre 2013 - 03:20 .

[Barquiel]

The Quarians tried to illegally established themselves on a council-controlled planet suitable only for, and given to, the Elcor. I understand the Quarians can't just colonize any planet due to their biology, but they have nobody to blame but themselves here. The citadel civilizations have only explored about 1% of the galaxy, and Council Space makes up even less than 1% of the entire Milky Way Galaxy. There are more than enough planets to colonize outside of Council Space.