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Are the Templars going to be Big Bad EEVIIL again?


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#226
Lord Raijin

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TheKomandorShepard wrote...

that 99 % mages were blood mages and abominations? But still she was no better so...


Most of the mages in Kirkwall used blood magic to defend themselves against the templars as a last resort. Look at the history of the 2 mages that Meredith had us hunt down, and to kill. As far as mages turning into Abominations... Look at how those 2 non-mages thugs harassed and tortmented Ser Thrask daughter. Who knows what they had in mind for her... perhabs they attended to rape her? She turned into an abomination because she wasn't able to defend herself against these 2 brutes.

#227
OLDIRTYBARON

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Lord Raijin wrote...

OLDIRTYBARON wrote...
Because Orsino really was corrupt. There really was rampant blood magic. Blood mages really were trying to undermine her authority and use the "poor helpless oppressed mages" propaganda to exploit that. Meridith may have lost her **** at the end, but she was right about the conspiracy against her and she was right about her suspicions.


And I assume that Meredith had no affiliation whatsoever over Orsino's corruption, huh? Orsino was so corrupted that he begged Meredith to revoke the ROA, and to essentinally told her to imprison him and his mages. He did not wanted this war to start, but already Meredith was so hungry for mages blood that whatever Orsino said did not make any connection with Meredith as she was clearly not listening to him. Orsino did what he did because he was in a desperate situation.

Don't get me wrong. I'm no Orsino fan but Meredith was largely responsible for what happen in Kirkwall as the same goes to the Grand Cleric.


Oh, so Orsino didn't want to face the hangman's noose and that made him noble, did it? He provoked a lot of what happened in Kirkwall by his willful disregard for the Chantry's laws and their oversight. He reveled in disobeying the Knight-Commander and practically thumbed his nose at her every chance he got. Then there's the whole "Orsino knew about Quentin's experiments and encouraged them" part, or do we sweep that under the rug because it doesn't fit the "poor mages" motif?

Orsino should have cooperated with Meredith. Irving would have, and I dare so any other First Enchanter would have. Orsino didn't want the Templars searching the Gallows because he knew they'd find something -- most likely his links to Quentin and God knows what other dark work -- and he'd probably face death for it. Orsino was a coward and he didn't want to face the consequences of his actions. He doomed his circle by refusing to acknowledge Templar authority and did nothing to stifle the growing unrest among circle mages. There is no excuse for what Orsino did. None.

People want to paint Meredith as a blood thirsty tyrant, but she wasn't. She wasn't paranoid in her suspicions of a plot against her, we found the plotters and dealt with them. She wasn't paranoid over the rampant blood magic in Kirkwall, we dealt with them every second wave of enemies. She wasn't paranoid because she suspected Orsino was hiding something, because he was. Meredith was right the entire time. When she starts to lose it is when she questions Hawke's loyalty, at which point even Cullen steps in and says "simmer down, sir."

Now as far as the Rite of Annulment goes, it was deserved. All the rampant blood magic, all the blood mages preying on the citizens of Kirkwall, all the demons running amock, and on top of all that a mage blows up the Chantry killing hundreds of innocent civilians. There was no way the people of Kirkwall weren't going to demand blood. Meredith invoked the Rite to deal with the problem before a war between Kirkwall and the Gallows erupted. Her duty was to protect the citizens of Kirkwall from hostile magic and she did her duty. Also notice that even during the Rite of Annulment, Hawke, Cullen, and Meredith (admittedly begrudgingly) agree to spare all mages who surrender to the Templar's authority. Not every mage dies in DA2 on the Templar path. In fact, more mages live after the Rite than from siding with the mages. Why? Because they were given the chance to surrender and Orsino had less corpses to turn into a bloody Harvester.

I can understand why people dislike Meredith. I even understand how people succumb to the romantic interpretation of poor mages who are so oppressed, so wronged, locked away in their towers in a gilded cage. But the wilfully ignoring facts serves no one.

#228
Daerog

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There was a blood mage conspiracy nonetheless. The Resolutionists being present, Orsino supporting blood magic, and how suddenly so many mages know how to use blood magic like it was knowledge they were born with shows it.

Most may have resorted to blood magic in a last ditch defense, but they had to have learned it beforehand. The ones who didn't know blood magic freaked out, demon tempted, and abomination result. Sad situation when backed into a corner like that, yes, but blood magic was being taught in the Circle that Meredith was desperately trying to remove with little help because the First Enchanter was trying to cover it up the whole time and interfering with Meredith's job, unlike the good relationship Gregoire and Irvine had.

#229
TheKomandorShepard

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Lord Raijin wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

that 99 % mages were blood mages and abominations? But still she was no better so...


Most of the mages in Kirkwall used blood magic to defend themselves against the templars as a last resort. Look at the history of the 2 mages that Meredith had us hunt down, and to kill. As far as mages turning into Abominations... Look at how those 2 non-mages thugs harassed and tortmented Ser Thrask daughter. Who knows what they had in mind for her... perhabs they attended to rape her? She turned into an abomination because she wasn't able to defend herself against these 2 brutes.

I doubt that you can become blood mage in one second and those in circle could use blood magic and many rly many mages were mad cultist , abominations and blood crazy mages without templars help. 

OLDIRTYBARON wrote...


People want to paint Meredith as a blood thirsty tyrant, but she wasn't.

Now as far as the Rite of Annulment goes, it was deserved.


lol

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 11 septembre 2013 - 05:37 .


#230
Lord Raijin

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OLDIRTYBARON wrote...

Oh, so Orsino didn't want to face the hangman's noose and that made him noble, did it? He provoked a lot of what happened in Kirkwall by his willful disregard for the Chantry's laws and their oversight. He reveled in disobeying the Knight-Commander and practically thumbed his nose at her every chance he got. Then there's the whole "Orsino knew about Quentin's experiments and encouraged them" part, or do we sweep that under the rug because it doesn't fit the "poor mages" motif?

Orsino should have cooperated with Meredith. Irving would have, and I dare so any other First Enchanter would have. Orsino didn't want the Templars searching the Gallows because he knew they'd find something -- most likely his links to Quentin and God knows what other dark work -- and he'd probably face death for it. Orsino was a coward and he didn't want to face the consequences of his actions. He doomed his circle by refusing to acknowledge Templar authority and did nothing to stifle the growing unrest among circle mages. There is no excuse for what Orsino did. None.


Orsino this Orsino that. When will it be Meredith for once? Meredith isn't exactly the type of person that you can just have a friendly business type of relationship with, especially when you're a mage. Meredith clearly hates mages and she made it nice and clear. Meredith is full of hatred that I don't think she even has a friend that she can have a social discussion with.

If Irving had to work with Meredith I can see him turning into a harvester at the very end. Meredith was putting waaaay to much pressure against the mages. The cutscreen even said so right after your first year of servitude in Kirkwall.

People want to paint Meredith as a blood thirsty tyrant, but she wasn't. She wasn't paranoid in her suspicions of a plot against her, we found the plotters and dealt with them. She wasn't paranoid over the rampant blood magic in Kirkwall, we dealt with them every second wave of enemies. She wasn't paranoid because she suspected Orsino was hiding something, because he was. Meredith was right the entire time. When she starts to lose it is when she questions Hawke's loyalty, at which point even Cullen steps in and says "simmer down, sir."


Image IPB

Now as far as the Rite of Annulment goes, it was deserved. All the rampant blood magic, all the blood mages preying on the citizens of Kirkwall, all the demons running amock, and on top of all that a mage blows up the Chantry killing hundreds of innocent civilians. There was no way the people of Kirkwall weren't going to demand blood. Meredith invoked the Rite to deal with the problem before a war between Kirkwall and the Gallows erupted. Her duty was to protect the citizens of Kirkwall from hostile magic and she did her duty. Also notice that even during the Rite of Annulment, Hawke, Cullen, and Meredith (admittedly begrudgingly) agree to spare all mages who surrender to the Templar's authority. Not every mage dies in DA2 on the Templar path. In fact, more mages live after the Rite than from siding with the mages. Why? Because they were given the chance to surrender and Orsino had less corpses to turn into a bloody Harvester.


And yet at the very end It was Meredith who became the antagonist. Orsino was not meant to die, but the devs thought it was a good idea (A bad one at best) to add in another boss in ACT 3.

I can understand why people dislike Meredith. I even understand how people succumb to the romantic interpretation of poor mages who are so oppressed, so wronged, locked away in their towers in a gilded cage. But the wilfully ignoring facts serves no one.


I don't honestly hate Meredith. I don't dislike her either. I pitty her more than anything because shes is in fact a psychological train wreak. I had hoped to persuade her to change her mind about the way she feels about mages. Hell I was hoping to have a romanaic relationship with this woman.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 11 septembre 2013 - 06:03 .


#231
Mr.House

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Does not change the fact Meredith was right, unstable people can be right you know and Meredith was right. Ever.Single.Time.

Really wished people would not fall for the innocent mage act mages love to do.

#232
Steelcan

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Mr.House wrote...

Does not change the fact Meredith was right, unstable people can be right you know and Meredith was right. Ever.Single.Time.

Really wished people would not fall for the innocent mage act mages love to do.

The evil


Image IPB

#233
Mr.House

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I disagree, Bethany was as cuddly as a bunny. Now if that picture was Anders, Orisino, Grace or Quintin, I would agree

Modifié par Mr.House, 11 septembre 2013 - 06:12 .


#234
Steelcan

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The Circle mages did not deserve to have the Right of Annulment brought down on them because of the actions of an independent party and a lunatic commander.

#235
AresKeith

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Steelcan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Does not change the fact Meredith was right, unstable people can be right you know and Meredith was right. Ever.Single.Time.

Really wished people would not fall for the innocent mage act mages love to do.

The evil


Image IPB


Meredith admitted how well Bethany is

#236
Steelcan

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Mr.House wrote...

I disagree, Bethany was as cuddly as a bunny. Now if that picture was Anders, Orisino, Grace or Quintin, I would agree

meh, out of those only Grace and Quentin bug me

Modifié par Steelcan, 11 septembre 2013 - 06:14 .


#237
Steelcan

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AresKeith wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Does not change the fact Meredith was right, unstable people can be right you know and Meredith was right. Ever.Single.Time.

Really wished people would not fall for the innocent mage act mages love to do.

The evil



Meredith admitted how well Bethany is



Funny way of showing it

#238
Mr.House

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Meredith will only kill Bethany if Hawke gives the go ahead. Take that for what it's worth.

Modifié par Mr.House, 11 septembre 2013 - 06:16 .


#239
Milan92

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 Leave poor sweet Bethany alone. She is innocent! :o

#240
Mr.House

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Milan92 wrote...

 Leave poor sweet Bethany alone. She is innocent! :o

Say that to the ogre who wanted a toy.

#241
Milan92

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Mr.House wrote...

Milan92 wrote...

 Leave poor sweet Bethany alone. She is innocent! :o

Say that to the ogre who wanted a toy.


Thats why the Mage sucks! :happy:

#242
Lord Raijin

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Mr.House wrote...

Does not change the fact Meredith was right, unstable people can be right you know and Meredith was right. Ever.Single.Time.

Really wished people would not fall for the innocent mage act mages love to do.


No Meredith was not right and no unstable people cannot be right. That doesn't make any sense at all to even reconsider it.

#243
AresKeith

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Lord Raijin wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Does not change the fact Meredith was right, unstable people can be right you know and Meredith was right. Ever.Single.Time.

Really wished people would not fall for the innocent mage act mages love to do.


No Meredith was not right and no unstable people cannot be right. That doesn't make any sense at all to even reconsider it.


Same could be said about Anders :whistle:

#244
Mr.House

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Lord Raijin wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Does not change the fact Meredith was right, unstable people can be right you know and Meredith was right. Ever.Single.Time.

Really wished people would not fall for the innocent mage act mages love to do.


No Meredith was not right and no unstable people cannot be right. That doesn't make any sense at all to even reconsider it.


Where there blood mages in the circle? Yes
Where the mages hiding something? Yes
Where the mages planning something? Yes
Was Orsino hiding and protecting blood mages? Yes

Meredith was right,why can't you and other pro mages just accept it that Meredith was right all along? Does it like make you feel bad or dirty that you can admit that the big bad Templars where in fact right?

#245
Steelcan

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Once again, dem blood mage thralls.... like Cullen...

#246
Allan Schumacher

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Orsino this Orsino that. When will it be Meredith for once?


I'd wager it was often both.

#247
Rovay

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Well, so much for this thread not turning into another Mage vs. Templar war...

Modifié par Rovay, 11 septembre 2013 - 06:31 .


#248
Lord Raijin

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AresKeith wrote...

Same could be said about Anders :whistle:



Anders was a prisoner of the Chantry since he was a kid. Are you telling me that he was insane because he personally witnessed the injustice of what the White Chantry had essentinally done to the Mages in Thedas? What is so crazy for wanting to have the freedom like any non-mages?

#249
Barquiel

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I thought the reason for so many blood mages was obvious? Meredith and the templars were pushing the mages so hard that they would seek increasingly desperate measures (blood magic) to escape them. Meredith was more the cause of these problems than the solution.

#250
Mr.House

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Lord Raijin wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Same could be said about Anders :whistle:



Anders was a prisoner of the Chantry since he was a kid. Are you telling me that he was insane because he personally witnessed the injustice of what the White Chantry had essentinally done to the Mages in Thedas? What is so crazy for wanting to have the freedom like any non-mages?

That does not excuse terrorism.