516 réponses à ce sujet

[cjones91]

addiction21 wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...


Meredith Father and Mother didn't trust the Templars nor the Chantry, and refuses to take their daughter to the circle, willingly. They did not want their daughter to become a prisoner of the circle, and was willing to risk their own lives, as they did, to keep their daughter away from the hands of the Templars.

And I am sure that consouls the family and friends of the 70+ dead people because of one child mage.

People are killed every day in Thedas...

[Jedi Master of Orion]

People are also oppressed every day in Thedas. So I guess... who cares about anything?

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 11 septembre 2013 - 02:34 .

[MisterJB]

Lord Raijin wrote...
MisterJB, Lets pretend that mages are real and you are one of them. The Chantry is also real and so are the Templars. The overpowering Chantry has a law where they can tell their templars to enforce the segregation of mages by tearing young mages from their families and then toss them all into what they call "The Circle". While you do get some benefits like learning how to control your magic and help others to control it as well, you are not allowed to leave. You become a prisoner. If you escape you get punished. You are a prisoner of the Chantry. You are not allowed to have a family of your own. If you get pregnate the templars will take your newborn child away and send them off to the Chantry where you never get to see your child again.

Meredith Father and Mother didn't trust the Templars nor the Chantry, and refuses to take their daughter to the circle, willingly. They did not want their daughter to become a prisoner of the circle, and was willing to risk their own lives, as they did, to keep their daughter away from the hands of the Templars.

The Chantry are so afraid of the very concept of allowing mages to be free that they fear that it will cause another Imperium, but in fact it's the complete opposite.

Now tell me something. You as a mage would accept this lifestyle? To live the rest of your entire life in a Chantry run circle where you're consently being watched? Who the Andraste panties would find this acceptable living? By Makers breathe try living in the circle under Meredith's belt.

Anders is fighting for total freedom of Mages, and unfortunetly the last resort is with violence, which unfortunetly happen at the end.

Yeah, you completely changing the subject. Your first post was about how Anders' actions were those of a desperate man and were provoked by Meredith except he himself says it was never about Kirkwall and we know his actions were quite calculated and planned which is what I pointed out in my answer.

Now, you're giving me an incomplete and biased description of the Circle in order to provoke an emotional response despite this never being about how the Circle works but about Ander's action and how Meredith influenced them; she didn't.

Second, living in a place where I'm given free food, medicine, education, clothing and housing versus living outside where, if I'm born a peasant, I will toil in the fields or forges all day to while having to give most of my earning to the local lord while having to deal with disease, bandits, war, darkspawn, etc.
Yes, I would volunteer to join the Circle any day. On the other hand, if some apostate I never met tells me I have to die for the sake of his cause, I'd tell him to go f*ck himself with his staff.

Third, I don't get pregnant. I impregnate.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

LobselVith8 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Meredith wasn't forced to try to kill hundreds of mages for an act Anders alone is responsible for, and we really don't know how mages in general view Anders. I suppose the Champion's ultimate choice between Meredith and the mages might be a factor.

I'm not saying that was the only factor, Meredith and Hawke were factors in it too but what Anders did was the biggest

In the book Asunder, they referred to him as "Damn Anders" because the rest of the Circles got more strict because of the Kirkwall Incident 

Given some mages seeing the pro-mage apostate Champion of Kirkwall as a positive symbol who showed the Circles that the templars could be defied, that might influence how some mages view Anders (for those respective runs).

For Hawke, opposing Meredith doesn't necessarily also mean supporting Anders in the game. Presumably that would also be true for the rest of the mages in Thedas too.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 11 septembre 2013 - 02:37 .

[AresKeith]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Meredith wasn't forced to try to kill hundreds of mages for an act Anders alone is responsible for, and we really don't know how mages in general view Anders. I suppose the Champion's ultimate choice between Meredith and the mages might be a factor.

I'm not saying that was the only factor, Meredith and Hawke were factors in it too but what Anders did was the biggest

In the book Asunder, they referred to him as "Damn Anders" because the rest of the Circles got more strict because of the Kirkwall Incident 

Given some mages seeing the pro-mage apostate Champion of Kirkwall as a positive symbol who showed the Circles that the templars could be defied, that might influence how some mages view Anders (for those respective runs).

For Hawke, opposing Meredith doesn't necessarily also mean supporting Anders in the game. Presumably that would true for the rest of the mages in Thedas too.

Same with siding with the Templars but not supporting Meredith

[cjones91]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

People are also oppressed every day in Thedas. So I guess... who cares about anything?

I'm not saying anyone should'nt care,however to single out people getting killed mages means little when people are murdered every day in Thedas by wildlife,non mages,and the like.

[DGR14]

I read a quote from the wiki and it said that the Red Templars and the normal Templars are not apart of the same faction so at some point this group of Templars left the normal group of Templars to make their own faction

[addiction21]

cjones91 wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...


Meredith Father and Mother didn't trust the Templars nor the Chantry, and refuses to take their daughter to the circle, willingly. They did not want their daughter to become a prisoner of the circle, and was willing to risk their own lives, as they did, to keep their daughter away from the hands of the Templars.

And I am sure that consouls the family and friends of the 70+ dead people because of one child mage.

People are killed every day in Thedas...

Oh I forgot only the mages lives are importent. Sorry.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

So by the same logic, why single out mages being oppressed by the Chantry when there are many worse off groups in Thedas?

[MisterJB]

addiction21 wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...


Meredith Father and Mother didn't trust the Templars nor the Chantry, and refuses to take their daughter to the circle, willingly. They did not want their daughter to become a prisoner of the circle, and was willing to risk their own lives, as they did, to keep their daughter away from the hands of the Templars.

And I am sure that consouls the family and friends of the 70+ dead people because of one child mage.

People are killed every day in Thedas...

Oh I forgot only the mages lives are importent. Sorry.

We're not even talking about mage's lives here. No one is asking we should kill all mages before they kill non-mages.
We're talking about confort. So that a mage girl can live confortably with her parents, 74 people should just bloody DIE!
Because the conforts and emotional well being of mages are SO much more important that the lives of non-mages.

[cjones91]

addiction21 wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...


Meredith Father and Mother didn't trust the Templars nor the Chantry, and refuses to take their daughter to the circle, willingly. They did not want their daughter to become a prisoner of the circle, and was willing to risk their own lives, as they did, to keep their daughter away from the hands of the Templars.

And I am sure that consouls the family and friends of the 70+ dead people because of one child mage.

People are killed every day in Thedas...

Oh I forgot only the mages lives are importent. Sorry.

You're missing the point,just because people are killed by a single intrained mage does'nt mean it's somehow worse than them getting killed by a wild animal or people without magic.

[cjones91]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

So by the same logic, why single out mages being oppressed by the Chantry when there are many worse off groups in Thedas?

Those groups aren't treated like monsters.

[LobselVith8]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Given some mages seeing the pro-mage apostate Champion of Kirkwall as a positive symbol who showed the Circles that the templars could be defied, that might influence how some mages view Anders (for those respective runs).

For Hawke, opposing Meredith doesn't necessarily also mean supporting Anders in the game. Presumably that would also be true for the rest of the mages in Thedas too. 

True, some pro-templar Hawke players opposed Meredith, but some pro-mage apostate Hawke players had their protagonist aid the mage underground, say that they would kill all the templars, or even tell Anders this wouldn't end until the templars were overthrown. A pro-mage apostate Hawke is also encouraged by Anders to be a leader to the mages. Basically, I'm sure opinion of Anders varies. His actions did lead to the dissolution of Chantry control of the mages, after all.

[MisterJB]

cjones91 wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

So by the same logic, why single out mages being oppressed by the Chantry when there are many worse off groups in Thedas?

Those groups aren't treated like monsters.

Being treated like an expendable piece of mobiliary (Tevinter slaves) is SO much better!

[cjones91]

MisterJB wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...


Meredith Father and Mother didn't trust the Templars nor the Chantry, and refuses to take their daughter to the circle, willingly. They did not want their daughter to become a prisoner of the circle, and was willing to risk their own lives, as they did, to keep their daughter away from the hands of the Templars.

And I am sure that consouls the family and friends of the 70+ dead people because of one child mage.

People are killed every day in Thedas...

Oh I forgot only the mages lives are importent. Sorry.

We're not even talking about mage's lives here. No one is asking we should kill all mages before they kill non-mages.
We're talking about confort. So that a mage girl can live confortably with her parents, 74 people should just bloody DIE!
Because the conforts and emotional well being of mages are SO much more important that the lives of non-mages.

Classic Pro Templar argument....because mages live in confort that means they should just shut up and accept being treated like crap.I wonder if you would say the same for children who are kidnapped and abused but their captors gave them toys,game systems and a good home?

Modifié par cjones91, 11 septembre 2013 - 02:48 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

cjones91 wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

So by the same logic, why single out mages being oppressed by the Chantry when there are many worse off groups in Thedas?

Those groups aren't treated like monsters.

That's splitting hairs, isn't it? Many other groups are treated like sub-human dirt and often in worse conditions than Circle Mages. What difference does it make if there is fear mixed in with contempt or not?

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 11 septembre 2013 - 02:49 .

[Magdalena11]

Anders' act was of a sane man driven insane by the injustice his people endured. What he did was wrong. I have to sympathize with his motivation, though.

[In Exile]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...


That's splitting hairs, isn't it? Many other groups are treated like sub-human dirt and often in worse conditions than Circle Mages. What difference does it make if there is fear mixed in with contempt or not?

A lot, when you're the subject of it. 

[Lord Raijin]

addiction21 wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...


Meredith Father and Mother didn't trust the Templars nor the Chantry, and refuses to take their daughter to the circle, willingly. They did not want their daughter to become a prisoner of the circle, and was willing to risk their own lives, as they did, to keep their daughter away from the hands of the Templars.

And I am sure that consouls the family and friends of the 70+ dead people because of one child mage.

While it may not be the right decision to make... theirs reasons why people aren't willing to surrender their mage children to the hands of the Chantry run circle.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

In Exile wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...


That's splitting hairs, isn't it? Many other groups are treated like sub-human dirt and often in worse conditions than Circle Mages. What difference does it make if there is fear mixed in with contempt or not?

A lot, when you're the subject of it. 

Why? It doesn't make them extra special in list of oppressed and persecuted peoples. You think mages would be better off if they recieved the same treatment as castless, for instance? Wouldn't that be bad enough?

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 11 septembre 2013 - 02:52 .

[Eveangaline]

They're a religion run military force that enforces their rules on others, and try to force countries to obey them. There's not really a way to sugar coat that.

[LobselVith8]

Magdalena11 wrote...

Anders' act was of a sane man driven insane by the injustice his people endured. What he did was wrong. I have to sympathize with his motivation, though.

Anders is certainly complicated. Plenty disagree about Anders. I'm sure Thedas is no different. I'm curious how Anders (and his enemy Sebastian) might factor into Inquisition, even in a small way.

[cjones91]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

So by the same logic, why single out mages being oppressed by the Chantry when there are many worse off groups in Thedas?

Those groups aren't treated like monsters.

That's splitting hairs, isn't it? Many other groups are treated like sub-human dirt and often in worse conditions than Circle Mages. What difference does it make if there is fear mixed in with contempt or not?

Because those groups aren't told they are monsters just for being born,they are'nt told constantly how they are the reason for every wrong in the world.

Imagine being told from the day you are born that you're a disease and should give up your freedoms and life because you have nothing to live for anyway,you often see the results with groups like the Loyalists.

[In Exile]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Why? It doesn't make them extra special in list of oppressed and persecuted peoples. You think mages would be better off if they recieved the same treatment as castless, for instance? Wouldn't that be bad enough?

I think the casteless are also treated with contempt. Now I think I'm confused by your use of the word. What do you mean when you use the word "contempt"?

[Wissenschaft]

cjones91 wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

People are also oppressed every day in Thedas. So I guess... who cares about anything?

I'm not saying anyone should'nt care,however to single out people getting killed mages means little when people are murdered every day in Thedas by wildlife,non mages,and the like.

 

Wildlife kills more people every day then mages therefore wildlife needs to be out into "conservation camps", well away from the vunerable masses.