516 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Master of Orion]

No my point was that both of them are treated with contempt. I was asking why mages are extra special if they are treated with fear AND contempt.

[Xilizhra]

Well, the red templars will certainly be satisfying to kill, but I rather hope that my power isn't restricted to them alone.

[In Exile]

Wissenschaft wrote...

Wildlife kills more people every day then mages therefore wildlife needs to be out into "conservation camps", well away from the vunerable masses.

You know that's not an inaccurate statement of what we actually do by building cities, right?

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, the red templars will certainly be satisfying to kill, but I rather hope that my power isn't restricted to them alone.

If you support mage autonomy, it's possible you'll run into opposition with the templars, Lambert's forces, or even the Andrastian Chantry. I'm starting to wonder what backgrounds might be possible for racial options - i.e. Dalish mage, for example.

[In Exile]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

No my point was that both of them are treated with contempt. I was asking why mages are extra special if they are treated with fear AND contempt.

I think freeing the casteless is very important. But no one on this forum really cares about the plight of the dwarves. They're sadly not awesome enough for the players to relate to despite their system being a much more clear example of IRL abuse. 

It's also the case that there's no justification for that kind of abuse and no one here (I hope) is about to defend that sort of caste system. Whereas the issue with mages is less cut-and-dry.

And generally multiple groups being abused doesn't justify not doing anything about the abuse. 

[dragonflight288]

In Exile wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

No my point was that both of them are treated with contempt. I was asking why mages are extra special if they are treated with fear AND contempt.

I think freeing the casteless is very important. But no one on this forum really cares about the plight of the dwarves. They're sadly not awesome enough for the players to relate to despite their system being a much more clear example of IRL abuse. 

It's also the case that there's no justification for that kind of abuse and no one here (I hope) is about to defend that sort of caste system. Whereas the issue with mages is less cut-and-dry.

And generally multiple groups being abused doesn't justify not doing anything about the abuse. 

I care, but dwarves are often forgotten, much like the surfacers tend to do in-game, because they are out of the way, not involved in any of the major conflicts like templars and mages, or elves regaining a homeland. But if the dwarves weren't there, the surface would be suffering a never-ending blight without an archdemon. The surfacers blight is the dwarves everyday, afterall.

I personally would like to see the dwarves grow in importance to the surface beyond lyrium trading. Heck, I would love (only for storytelling purposes) that they cut all lyrium trade with the surface, as this'll likely be the first time they'll have to deal with demons if they start heading undergound, and they may blame all surfacers. Heck, it would be amusing to hear a dwarf say that the demons are just those who fell into the sky.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

In Exile wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

No my point was that both of them are treated with contempt. I was asking why mages are extra special if they are treated with fear AND contempt.

I think freeing the casteless is very important. But no one on this forum really cares about the plight of the dwarves. They're sadly not awesome enough for the players to relate to despite their system being a much more clear example of IRL abuse. 

It's also the case that there's no justification for that kind of abuse and no one here (I hope) is about to defend that sort of caste system. Whereas the issue with mages is less cut-and-dry.

And generally multiple groups being abused doesn't justify not doing anything about the abuse. 

Well no, but this series of posts ended up being an offshoot of the "People die everyday in Thedas" comment, so I was still following that breed of logic.

[Eveangaline]

In Exile wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

No my point was that both of them are treated with contempt. I was asking why mages are extra special if they are treated with fear AND contempt.

I think freeing the casteless is very important. But no one on this forum really cares about the plight of the dwarves. They're sadly not awesome enough for the players to relate to despite their system being a much more clear example of IRL abuse. 

It's also the case that there's no justification for that kind of abuse and no one here (I hope) is about to defend that sort of caste system. Whereas the issue with mages is less cut-and-dry.

And generally multiple groups being abused doesn't justify not doing anything about the abuse. 

We care, we just all agree. So there's not really any point in discussing it. It's just "the casteless are treated like **** and that is bad" "Yep" "I agree".

Not much of a topic starter since no one will really have a different opinion on it, and the first game gives you a way to at least put a king up that wants to abolish the caste system.

[Lord Raijin]

MisterJB wrote...

Yeah, you completely changing the subject. Your first post was about how Anders' actions were those of a desperate man and were provoked by Meredith except he himself says it was never about Kirkwall and we know his actions were quite calculated and planned which is what I pointed out in my answer.

Now, you're giving me an incomplete and biased description of the Circle in order to provoke an emotional response despite this never being about how the Circle works but about Ander's action and how Meredith influenced them; she didn't.

Second, living in a place where I'm given free food, medicine, education, clothing and housing versus living outside where, if I'm born a peasant, I will toil in the fields or forges all day to while having to give most of my earning to the local lord while having to deal with disease, bandits, war, darkspawn, etc.
Yes, I would volunteer to join the Circle any day. On the other hand, if some apostate I never met tells me I have to die for the sake of his cause, I'd tell him to go f*ck himself with his staff.

Third, I don't get pregnant. I impregnate.

I wasn't changing the subject I was trying to get you to understand Anders situation by putting his shoes on. People do strange things out of desperation. Anders was not the first mage to construct a plan to assassinate the Grand Cleric. In fact Elthina even comment that mages tried coming after her before, and obviously failed. Anders was obviously too cunning to out smart Elthina at the end.

The Chantry picked their battles, and now they must put up with the percussion that they've inflicted against themselves. Consquences comes with actions. Templars are successionally deattaching themselves away from the Chantry and Mages are now free, but they now must fight for their dear lives to survive.

My "incomplete and biased description of the Circle" is based on facts and was presented to me in the game. You should pay a bit more attention with an open mind.

A war is nessassary to make changes. It's part of the recovery that can either go good or bad depending on the outcome.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:06 .

[Aolbain]

    .

Modifié par Aolbain, 11 septembre 2013 - 06:26 .

[Aolbain]

Mr.House wrote...

Aolbain wrote...

Was there a game I didn't play, where the Templars were the big bad? If that is the case, can someone please point me towards it.

Someone didn't pay attention to DAO.

Eh, no? The templars in DAO was quite reasonable people (with the exception of Crazy-Cullen). 

[Zack_Nero]

Maybe not all templars, but this red templar group yea I believe so

[-TC1989-]

Aolbain wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Aolbain wrote...

Was there a game I didn't play, where the Templars were the big bad? If that is the case, can someone please point me towards it.

Someone didn't pay attention to DAO.

Eh, no? The templars in DAO was quite reasonable people (with the exception of Crazy-Cullen). 

It's been awhile since I played Origins, but didn't Cullen sort of have a reason for being labeled "crazy"?

[OLDIRTYBARON]

-TC1989- wrote...

Aolbain wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Aolbain wrote...

Was there a game I didn't play, where the Templars were the big bad? If that is the case, can someone please point me towards it.

Someone didn't pay attention to DAO.

Eh, no? The templars in DAO was quite reasonable people (with the exception of Crazy-Cullen). 

It's been awhile since I played Origins, but didn't Cullen sort of have a reason for being labeled "crazy"?

Yeah, torture and magic induced hallucinations aimed at breaking your will and twisting you into an abominable creature that would prey on the weak is a pretty valid reason to get a little smitey.

In my opinion, of course.

[Ieldra]

OP, I don't know why you single out the templars in your post. The insane-evil mages in DA2 greatly outnumber such templars, to the point that even Hawke comments on it, saying they'd like a day without meeting an insane mage.

Apart from that, yes, the depiction of both sides was crude in DA2, the DA team is aware of that and I hope the picture gets less crude in DAI; the existence of the Red Templars notwithstanding. More about that in my thread Can we have fewer insane enemies please?

[Star fury]

Real Templar order had a very unpleasant fate.

[The Elder King]

@Lobsel: the devs confirmed that we can play as a dalish mage during PAX. While things could change, the fact that they're telling us only the features they're sure they'll implement in the game, I'd say it's difficult that this option will be changed. Which I'm glad for, since I wanted to play a dalish mage since DAO.
About the topic, I think we don't know enough to say which role the templars (or the mages) will have in DAI; I think that there'll be both templars and RT, plus mages and Seekers (due to rings we saw in the first concepts).

[Xilizhra]

Ieldra2 wrote...

OP, I don't know why you single out the templars in your post. The insane-evil mages in DA2 greatly outnumber such templars, to the point that even Hawke comments on it, saying they'd like a day without meeting an insane mage.

Apart from that, yes, the depiction of both sides was crude in DA2, the DA team is aware of that and I hope the picture gets less crude in DAI; the existence of the Red Templars notwithstanding. More about that in my thread Can we have fewer insane enemies please?

What? No they don't. The entire Templar Order is corrupt by definition, and that far outstrips any supposed number of insane mages.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Beerfish wrote...

I dunno are all the mages going to be big bad evillll as well I wonder?

Given that you will have mage companions?
Given how Bio writing has been heading?

Defiantely not.

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Half tousand of mages i slained and were cultist , crazy apostates or blood mages (as well many in main plot) and don't need templars to be crazy also another 100 in denerim and ferelden and that most problems in da are mages fault dalish plot in first game , redcliffe ,blight ,mage tower.Any reason someone should support mages?

You mean other than the fact that they really have been given the shorter stick by life and that their desires are perfectly understandable?

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...

Elfman wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Well,what do you think would happen when a bunch of crazed lyrium addicted zealots are running around after they cut off their supplier?

That's not my point. My point is it immediately makes them into Thedas' Cerberus, whether we agree with their motives or not. I'm only asking we make them sympathetic to the audience in some small way.

A good to do that is to have the sane templars fight the Red Templars and the Inquisitor can help them out.

What does that accomplish?

You clearly wan't all good guys in one camp and all bad guys in one camp. That just sucks from a human perspective. Regardless if it's mages or templars.

[crimzontearz]

Yes, they will be EEEEEVIIIIL and mustache twirling and will reach levels of comic book villain incompetence never seen before



Just like Cerberus

[Lotion Soronarr]

AresKeith wrote...
I would rather have the Red Templars be a mirror image of Blood mages, by using desperation to gain an edge. And them becoming insane caused them to become a splinter group

No, that would be(is) a horrible idea IMHO.
Giving mundanes blood-mage like power is a giant cop-out.

[crimzontearz]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

AresKeith wrote...
I would rather have the Red Templars be a mirror image of Blood mages, by using desperation to gain an edge. And them becoming insane caused them to become a splinter group

No, that would be(is) a horrible idea IMHO.
Giving mundanes blood-mage like power is a giant cop-out.

I am not sure that is what he meant....

[Lotion Soronarr]

Plaintiff wrote...
If she's not malicious, she's incompetent, and deserves to be punished on that basis. If she's not incompetent, she's malicious.

Those are your options. Pick one.

Neither. Why do you think she was made a Knight-commander?
She was an exemplary templar and she does *NOT* hate mages. Speaking with her makes it obvious.
She clearly has simpathy for them, but her duty comes first.


Also, I liked to point out that Meredith had the blade for YEARS. YEARS.

The fact that she still had some sanity is incredible, given how Betram was a raving lunatic in mere days.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 11 septembre 2013 - 01:00 .