375 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Eveangaline wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Especially when you learn about King Cailan's plans to wed Empress Celene and Wynne's inability to recognize what a disaster that would be for Ferelden, which was supposed to be part of the main game (with Celene in Denerim).

I thought Loghain only thought he was giong to marry the Empress, becaue he's paranoid. 

It's mentioned by Alistair and Wynne if you take them back to Ostagar; they simply see it in a positive light instead.

[In Exile]

Eveangaline wrote...

I thought Loghain only thought he was giong to marry the Empress, becaue he's paranoid.

The letters in Ostagar suggest that this wasn't something Loghain made up. As usual, he picked the worst and least effective way of actually dealing with this, but that's because he likes wearing a dunce cap when it comes to anything that isn't battle. 

Modifié par In Exile, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:13 .

[dragonflight288]

In Exile wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
So I figured I'd start this thread to see how we as a gaming community will speculate the (unlikely) affect Loghain will have in Inquisition since I assume most people killed him, whether at the Landsmeet or facing the Archdemon since they don't trust Morrigan.

How will anti-Orlesian Loghain, Ferelden's greatest general, now gifted with the abilities of a Grey Warden, affect or interact with the Inquisitor?

I think it's important that we have the DA: Keep. It makes it much more likely that people would want - and be able to get to see - a world state that involves Loghain being alive. 

Loghain's first love is Ferelden. Depending on what the plotline is for the game, I think he'd be there unless there was an even greater darkspawn threat facing it elsewhere. 

True. I would at least like him to make an apperance if he lives. He's still one of the most memorable video game antagonists in my opinion.

[dragonflight288]

Eveangaline wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

On a side note, doing "Return to Ostagar" with Loghain and Wynne does provide a lot of interesting food for thought. Loghain and Wynne really don't get along, but Loghain's comments really got me thinking and seeing his side of things.

Especially when you learn about King Cailan's plans to wed Empress Celene and Wynne's inability to recognize what a disaster that would be for Ferelden, which was supposed to be part of the main game (with Celene in Denerim).

I thought Loghain only thought he was giong to marry the Empress, becaue he's paranoid.

here's the dialogue.


(during the Return to Ostagar DLC after finding the Secret Correspondence)

• Loghain: The cheating bastard!
• Wynne: Watch your mouth, Loghain Mac Tir, unless you have forgotten the company you now keep!
• Loghain: It's not my company I worry about, madam, but
  my former son-in-law's! Do you see the familiar tone with which the
  empress writes him, as if my daughter were not already his wife?
• Wynne: Cailan loved Anora with every ounce of his
  heart. It was plain for all to see. The only thing that ever stood
  between them was you.
• Loghain: Are you blind, old woman? The plot is plain as
  day within this letter! Love or no, Cailan was going to cast my
  daughter aside and wed himself to that ****, Celene. In a single vow,
  Orlais would claim all that they could never win by war! And what would
  Ferelden gain? Our fool of a king could strut about and call himself an
  emperor.
• Wynne: And what of peace? Would it not bring us that, at least?
• Loghain: Peace? I would have thought your age might
  have granted more wisdom, madam. Peace just means fighting someone
  else's enemies in someone else's war for someone else's reasons.
• If Dog is with them, when Loghain calls Celene a ****, Dog will growl before Loghain continues the rest of what he is saying.

[Eveangaline]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

On a side note, doing "Return to Ostagar" with Loghain and Wynne does provide a lot of interesting food for thought. Loghain and Wynne really don't get along, but Loghain's comments really got me thinking and seeing his side of things.

Especially when you learn about King Cailan's plans to wed Empress Celene and Wynne's inability to recognize what a disaster that would be for Ferelden, which was supposed to be part of the main game (with Celene in Denerim).

I thought Loghain only thought he was giong to marry the Empress, becaue he's paranoid.

here's the dialogue.


(during the Return to Ostagar DLC after finding the Secret Correspondence)

• Loghain: The cheating bastard!
• Wynne: Watch your mouth, Loghain Mac Tir, unless you have forgotten the company you now keep!
• Loghain: It's not my company I worry about, madam, but
  my former son-in-law's! Do you see the familiar tone with which the
  empress writes him, as if my daughter were not already his wife?
• Wynne: Cailan loved Anora with every ounce of his
  heart. It was plain for all to see. The only thing that ever stood
  between them was you.
• Loghain: Are you blind, old woman? The plot is plain as
  day within this letter! Love or no, Cailan was going to cast my
  daughter aside and wed himself to that ****, Celene. In a single vow,
  Orlais would claim all that they could never win by war! And what would
  Ferelden gain? Our fool of a king could strut about and call himself an
  emperor.
• Wynne: And what of peace? Would it not bring us that, at least?
• Loghain: Peace? I would have thought your age might
  have granted more wisdom, madam. Peace just means fighting someone
  else's enemies in someone else's war for someone else's reasons.
• If Dog is with them, when Loghain calls Celene a ****, Dog will growl before Loghain continues the rest of what he is saying.

Sounds to me like Loghain was just being paranoid.

[dragonflight288]

And he doesn't have a point? I just beat Origins again yesterday, and there's a few things that stand out, by a lot. At the Landsmeet, Loghain says that the Orlesian Wardens were bringing 4 legions of Chevalier's, but Riordin in Howe's estate, when asked what the original force size was, talks of 400 Wardens and 200 divisions of Calvary from the Orleisians.

I don't know about you, but 200 divisions sounds like a lot more than 4 legions. Going by Roman Empire numbers, a legion was 3000 soldiers, but a division could be anything from 1000 to 5,000 soldiers. The Orlesians were coming in force, far greater than had been reported to the Fereldens.

He may have been paranoid, but in the end, he was actually right. He just spent so much time focusing on the wrong threat that the blight was able to spread without opposition.

[Maiden Crowe]

dragonflight288 wrote...

So he goes to Orlais...which is where Inquisition will largely take place. I hope he makes at least a cameo.

He gets sent to Orlais? I guess becoming a Warden truly was a fate worse than death for Loghain.

[dragonflight288]

Maiden Crowe wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

So he goes to Orlais...which is where Inquisition will largely take place. I hope he makes at least a cameo.

He gets sent to Orlais? I guess becoming a Warden truly was a fate worse than death for Loghain.

Yup. The Wardens send him to Orlais.

[Former_Fiend]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Maiden Crowe wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

So he goes to Orlais...which is where Inquisition will largely take place. I hope he makes at least a cameo.

He gets sent to Orlais? I guess becoming a Warden truly was a fate worse than death for Loghain.

Yup. The Wardens send him to Orlais.

To his credit, he seemed more intrigued by it than anything. He could apparently appreciate the irony.

[Clockwork_Wings]

I have suspected, having heard that he was well aware of Celene's relationship with Cailan, that such was a major influence in leaving Cailan behind, even if it was, "This guy's a moron," rolling around in his head.

He seemed cheerful enough in Awakening though, warmed up to his roll, I wouldn't mind to see him leading a division of wardens, or on his calling, or in a situation like that of Nathanial in DA2.

[Angrywolves]

He won't .
He's dead in most playthroughs.
I wish the Loghain fans would give it a rest.

[AresKeith]

Angrywolves wrote...

He won't .
He's dead in most playthroughs.
I wish the Loghain fans would give it a rest.

But that doesn't stop the chance for a cameo

[Former_Fiend]

Angrywolves wrote...

He won't .
He's dead in most playthroughs.
I wish the Loghain fans would give it a rest.

Has Bioware ever actually released percentages on that? I mean, yea, I imagine most people did kill him, but do we actually know by what margin?

And really, it doesn't matter because we're not necessarily going by playthroughs anymore, if what's been said about the Keep is right; anyone with that can just click the "spared Loghain" box in the questionaire and he's alive, without having to play through Origins to make it happen. 

On top of that, they're also talking about putting in more content that may not get seen due to choices in the game, so they're apparently open to putting in content that might not get seen because he was killed off, for the benefit of those who didn't kill him. 

[Mr.House]

Loghain drinking a beer in a burning Orlais city would be the best cameo ever.

[Captain Obvious]

In Exile wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

I thought Loghain only thought he was giong to marry the Empress, becaue he's paranoid.

The letters in Ostagar suggest that this wasn't something Loghain made up. As usual, he picked the worst and least effective way of actually dealing with this, but that's because he likes wearing a dunce cap when it comes to anything that isn't battle. 

If you're talking about what happened after Ostagar, then to be fair, Loghain had Howe and Howe is quite a thrifty person. He was probably keeping things from Loghain. It's in his nature to keep things from people.

[Former_Fiend]

Mr.House wrote...

Loghain drinking a beer in a burning Orlais city would be the best cameo ever.

Damn that needs to happen.

[Mr.House]

Eveangaline wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

On a side note, doing "Return to Ostagar" with Loghain and Wynne does provide a lot of interesting food for thought. Loghain and Wynne really don't get along, but Loghain's comments really got me thinking and seeing his side of things.

Especially when you learn about King Cailan's plans to wed Empress Celene and Wynne's inability to recognize what a disaster that would be for Ferelden, which was supposed to be part of the main game (with Celene in Denerim).

I thought Loghain only thought he was giong to marry the Empress, becaue he's paranoid.

here's the dialogue.


(during the Return to Ostagar DLC after finding the Secret Correspondence)

• Loghain: The cheating bastard!
• Wynne: Watch your mouth, Loghain Mac Tir, unless you have forgotten the company you now keep!
• Loghain: It's not my company I worry about, madam, but
  my former son-in-law's! Do you see the familiar tone with which the
  empress writes him, as if my daughter were not already his wife?
• Wynne: Cailan loved Anora with every ounce of his
  heart. It was plain for all to see. The only thing that ever stood
  between them was you.
• Loghain: Are you blind, old woman? The plot is plain as
  day within this letter! Love or no, Cailan was going to cast my
  daughter aside and wed himself to that ****, Celene. In a single vow,
  Orlais would claim all that they could never win by war! And what would
  Ferelden gain? Our fool of a king could strut about and call himself an
  emperor.
• Wynne: And what of peace? Would it not bring us that, at least?
• Loghain: Peace? I would have thought your age might
  have granted more wisdom, madam. Peace just means fighting someone
  else's enemies in someone else's war for someone else's reasons.
• If Dog is with them, when Loghain calls Celene a ****, Dog will growl before Loghain continues the rest of what he is saying.

Sounds to me like Loghain was just being paranoid.

No it's dam clear what was going on. Calian was a traitor, along with being an idiot who decided fighting on the front lines was a great idea. Not even a tear was ready to shed for his death.

[Thunderfox]

I imagine he's greatly enjoying the Orlesian Civil War kicking back with a good Ferelden Ale saying " We're neutral. You two have fun killing each other"

[Steelcan]

Tbh I wanted an option to make Loghain king

[Clockwork_Wings]

I'd like to see his character develop enough that he doesn't think Orlais is so awful anymore. That would be a big moment, but it must be done well or other players will complain. It's kind of his defining character trait, after all.

[Plaintiff]

If he's alive, Loghain's incompetence single-handedly drove the Grey Wardens straight into the ground, just like he did with Ferelden. Plus, he breaks his hip constantly.

If he's dead, your Inquisitor will have the opportunity to visit his unmarked grave and pee on it.

[Plaintiff]

Mr.House wrote...
[*]No it's dam clear what was going on. Calian was a traitor, along with being an idiot who decided fighting on the front lines was a great idea. Not even a tear was ready to shed for his death.

A traitor to who? Maric himself said that the nationality of Ferelden's ruler wasn't important. What mattered was how they treated the country and its people. If Celene could be just and fair, and rule peacefully, then there's no problem, as far as Cailin's own father was concerned.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 12 septembre 2013 - 12:37 .

[Clockwork_Wings]

That's how I saw it, that a union between Ferelden and Orlais may not be terrible, although I understand Loghain's problem with it, and wouldn't want to deal with the resulting mess from the nobles to the peasants. For all we know, Cailan genuinely liked Celene and it wasn't about strutting about and calling himself an emperor.

Me, I think Cailan is what happens when the prince doesn't have his royal parents, and everyone around him is afraid to do anything but tell him stories about glory and battle.

[Lokiwithrope]

While I don't generally keep him alive, it would be nice to have him appear in Inquisition just for the people who did spare him. The former General of Fereldan-turned-Grey Warden doesn't simply disappear. After all, we are going to be in Orlais.

But if he does appear, he better have a goddamn beard. He looks a lot better with one.

[The Hierophant]

The majority of the Olesians we encountered in both games looked down on the Fereldens while Celene insulted the whole country when she praised Anora. I doubt the Fereldens would be treated fairly when they are not even respected by them to begin with.

Considering that Celene is a master at court intrigue i wouldn't put it past her to assassinate Cailan after their marriage in an effort to take the Ferelden throne with little resistance.