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[Former_Fiend]

Ryzaki wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Shouldn't Loghain be dead by DAI times?

Especially with the short grey warden lifespawn.

Not necessarily. Should have at least another ten years till his Calling.

I thought Gaider shortenened the lifespawn to about 10 years give or take instead of the 30 Alistair originally said in DAO? Least I heard that somewhere on this forum.

I haven't heard anything to that effect, though I've seen some evidence of the 30 years being closer to an estimation; Duncan was apparently getting close to his calling in Origins and he'd only been a warden for twenty years.

[Ryzaki]

Former_Fiend wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Shouldn't Loghain be dead by DAI times?

Especially with the short grey warden lifespawn.

Not necessarily. Should have at least another ten years till his Calling.

I thought Gaider shortenened the lifespawn to about 10 years give or take instead of the 30 Alistair originally said in DAO? Least I heard that somewhere on this forum.

I haven't heard anything to that effect, though I've seen some evidence of the 30 years being closer to an estimation; Duncan was apparently getting close to his calling in Origins and he'd only been a warden for twenty years.

To be fair Duncan was before the change. Thus it makes sense he'd fit closer to Alistair's estimation of 30 years give or take than the new one.

Edit: And 10 is the average while 30 is max. Considering Loghain was older and joined during a blight I don't see him living much more than 10.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 septembre 2013 - 03:26 .

[Master Warder Z_]

Former_Fiend wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Shouldn't Loghain be dead by DAI times?

Especially with the short grey warden lifespawn.

Not necessarily. Should have at least another ten years till his Calling.

I thought Gaider shortenened the lifespawn to about 10 years give or take instead of the 30 Alistair originally said in DAO? Least I heard that somewhere on this forum.

I haven't heard anything to that effect, though I've seen some evidence of the 30 years being closer to an estimation; Duncan was apparently getting close to his calling in Origins and he'd only been a warden for twenty years.

Indeed in "The Calling" You have the Warden Commander having been a Warden for 30+ Years replacing her Brother Bergan.

So you have Gray Wardens that live FAR beyond a mere decade.

[d4eaming]

Former_Fiend wrote...

You know, I honestly don't see the point of this debate. This is simple; if you didn't like Loghain then you didn't spare him so he is dead in your play through so it won't affect you at all.

If you spared Alistair, it doesn't matter how- wandering drunk, grey warden, or king- he shows up in DAII.

For those of us who chose Loghain, we simply want him to have a bigger role than Alistair saying "sadly, Loghain still lives." We want to see our guy again. We want to hear Simon Templeman's awesome voice acting again.

Is that so wrong?

I'd much rather listen to Simon as Kain (and Michael Bell as Raziel :wub:) than Loghain.

[Master Warder Z_]

Ryzaki wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Shouldn't Loghain be dead by DAI times?

Especially with the short grey warden lifespawn.

Not necessarily. Should have at least another ten years till his Calling.

I thought Gaider shortenened the lifespawn to about 10 years give or take instead of the 30 Alistair originally said in DAO? Least I heard that somewhere on this forum.

I haven't heard anything to that effect, though I've seen some evidence of the 30 years being closer to an estimation; Duncan was apparently getting close to his calling in Origins and he'd only been a warden for twenty years.

To be fair Duncan was before the change. Thus it makes sense he'd fit closer to Alistair's estimation of 30 years give or take than the new one.

Would you happen to have a source for this little claim you are making which contridicts the given Lore of the subject?

[AresKeith]

Former_Fiend wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Shouldn't Loghain be dead by DAI times?

Especially with the short grey warden lifespawn.

Not necessarily. Should have at least another ten years till his Calling.

I thought Gaider shortenened the lifespawn to about 10 years give or take instead of the 30 Alistair originally said in DAO? Least I heard that somewhere on this forum.

I haven't heard anything to that effect, though I've seen some evidence of the 30 years being closer to an estimation; Duncan was apparently getting close to his calling in Origins and he'd only been a warden for twenty years.

I also heard it depends on willpower too, but Duncun getting close to his calling could mean the 10 years

[d4eaming]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Would you happen to have a source for this little claim you are making which contridicts the given Lore of the subject?

I don't have a link to it, but the devs have stated more than once that the codices and claims made by NPCs are not hard data, and that they can simply be wrong in what they think they know.

[Ryzaki]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Shouldn't Loghain be dead by DAI times?

Especially with the short grey warden lifespawn.

Not necessarily. Should have at least another ten years till his Calling.

I thought Gaider shortenened the lifespawn to about 10 years give or take instead of the 30 Alistair originally said in DAO? Least I heard that somewhere on this forum.

I haven't heard anything to that effect, though I've seen some evidence of the 30 years being closer to an estimation; Duncan was apparently getting close to his calling in Origins and he'd only been a warden for twenty years.

To be fair Duncan was before the change. Thus it makes sense he'd fit closer to Alistair's estimation of 30 years give or take than the new one.

Would you happen to have a source for this little claim you are making which contridicts the given Lore of the subject?

I remember reading it. Trying to dig up the exact quote now.

[greatcrusader44]

Well in the trailer you see Casandra attacking a Grey Warden Keep, I imagine to claim it for the Inquisition. We know there are multiple ways to get keeps, from using coercion or by force.

Maybe there is a grey Wardens keep in Orlais and if Loghain is alive he can show up (possibly making it easier to take over if he supports the Inquisition, not sure I'd he would, just an example) or when you take it by force he can be one of the "boss" characters of the keep.

Modifié par greatcrusader44, 13 septembre 2013 - 03:30 .

[Ryzaki]

Found it

DG: It's something I put in Alistair's dialogue that I now regret! Afterwards I was like, "Wow, thirty years is a long time for that time frame." I didn't really intend when I was writing it, and only afterwards when I went back I said "Oh...I guess it does sort of implies thirty years after you take the Calling, doesn't it..." Sorry, after you take the Joining. That wasn't really my intention. But it's out there now so I'm like, okay, thirty years. But the idea is also that it varies. Thirty years is the maximum that you could probably expect. It's going to vary for an individual according to their willpower and the level of their interaction with the darkspawn. During a Blight you can expect that the Grey Wardens are going to have shorter lifespans. Outside of a Blight the Grey Wardens would tend to live longer. We have instances in the game of people going on their Calling after five or ten years. Alistair's thirty year quote shouldn't be taken as gospel, that's the way I like it.

Source: http://swooping-is-b...233.html?nojs=1

[Ryzaki]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Indeed in "The Calling" You have the Warden Commander having been a Warden for 30+ Years replacing her Brother Bergan.

So you have Gray Wardens that live FAR beyond a mere decade.

Again it's not a average. Some might make it 30 years. I highly doubt Loghain's one of them. He was older, joined during a blight and is pretty "this is my punishment go ahead and let me die." so yeah. Not seeing him making 30 years.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 septembre 2013 - 03:32 .

[In Exile]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Would you happen to have a source for this little claim you are making which contridicts the given Lore of the subject?

DG mentioned in a thread some time ago that he regretted letting them live that long as a floor from what I recall, but nothing about a retcon. 

[Ryzaki]

Doesn't have to be a retcon. Alistair saying it doesn't make it fact. He did say 30 years give or take which leaves plenty of wiggle room.

[Former_Fiend]

Ryzaki wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Shouldn't Loghain be dead by DAI times?

Especially with the short grey warden lifespawn.

Not necessarily. Should have at least another ten years till his Calling.

I thought Gaider shortenened the lifespawn to about 10 years give or take instead of the 30 Alistair originally said in DAO? Least I heard that somewhere on this forum.

I haven't heard anything to that effect, though I've seen some evidence of the 30 years being closer to an estimation; Duncan was apparently getting close to his calling in Origins and he'd only been a warden for twenty years.

To be fair Duncan was before the change. Thus it makes sense he'd fit closer to Alistair's estimation of 30 years give or take than the new one.

Edit: And 10 is the average while 30 is max. Considering Loghain was older and joined during a blight I don't see him living much more than 10.

Ok, so you were kind of right. I just found the interview where DG addressed this and here's what he said;

It's something I put in Alistair's dialogue that I now regret! Afterwards I was like, "Wow, thirty years is a long time for that time frame." I didn't really intend when I was writing it, and only afterwards when I went back I said "Oh...I guess it does sort of implies thirty years after you take the Calling, doesn't it..." Sorry, after you take the Joining. That wasn't really my intention. But it's out there now so I'm like, okay, thirty years. But the idea is also that it varies. Thirty years is the maximum that you could probably expect. It's going to vary for an individual according to their willpower and the level of their interaction with the darkspawn. During a Blight you can expect that the Grey Wardens are going to have shorter lifespans. Outside of a Blight the Grey Wardens would tend to live longer. We have instances in the game of people going on their Calling after five or ten years. Alistair's thirty year quote shouldn't be taken as gospel, that's the way I like it.

So it could be as little as five years. That being said, Loghain at the very least beat that mark as Alistair claims he's still alive by act three of DA2, at least six, seven years after the Blight.

Given that Loghain underwent the Joining fairly soon before the end of the Blight, though, I could see him lasting another ten, fifteen years. 

If he does show up in Inquisition with any kind of importance, maybe his enrouching Calling will be a plot point for him.

[Ryzaki]

Fair enough.

Though if Loghain is perfectly fine I'd hope my Warden wouldn't be anywhere near his/her calling.

[In Exile]

The variable range also makes sense when we think that the Joining is really about trying to control the taint as it poisons you. It's like medicine - works better for some than others. It's fluke, but it's worth the risk given the cost of not doing it.

[Steelcan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Fair enough.

Though if Loghain is perfectly fine I'd hope my Warden wouldn't be anywhere near his/her calling.

The Warden will probably get retconned out of the Calling

[Ryzaki]

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Fair enough.

Though if Loghain is perfectly fine I'd hope my Warden wouldn't be anywhere near his/her calling.

The Warden will probably get retconned out of the Calling

Not like it'll help. He/she'll just vanish into the distance like every BW protag that's not Bhaalspawn (and hell even Bhaalspawn does it in some endings) or the Spirit Monk (not sure about the NWN  PC). And no one will have any idea WTF happened until he/she pops up centuries later to be a complete and utter loon.

[Master Warder Z_]

Ryzaki wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Indeed in "The Calling" You have the Warden Commander having been a Warden for 30+ Years replacing her Brother Bergan.

So you have Gray Wardens that live FAR beyond a mere decade.

Again it's not a average. Some might make it 30 years. I highly doubt Loghain's one of them. He was older, joined during a blight and is pretty "this is my punishment go ahead and let me die." so yeah. Not seeing him making 30 years.

Thanks for the information but i do have to point out he seemed to accept the task and even enjoy it somewhat if he survived. He was a man who when he took up a task he ran at it head long, he was a life long soldier, a commander and general he had immense strength of character; He had to because of what was required of him.

And considering this is only three or so Years  since he was previously i do believe with the Darkspawn not being present within Orlais or at least overly present that he wouldn't be exposed to them.

So Yes he was older when he joined, Yes he did fight in the blight but here is also the main basis of my agrument.

Gaider stated this was a very, varied process and assuming Alistair's statement isn't taken as Gospel you still have about a 60/40 percent chance of him being around less then a decade later down the road, probably not in as great a shape as he was when he fought the Archdemon but still around.

I'd say even with out Gaider debunking the 30 Year notion you still have a pretty decent chance of him being alive during the events of the game.

Alistair was moaning about him being alive after all, just a few scant years before the world was set ablaze.

[Ryzaki]

True enough. I just hope it's not one those exchangeable cameos that ends up hurting both characters. (Hi Kaidan/Ashley).

[Melca36]

.

Ryzaki wrote...



I thought Gaider shortenened the lifespawn to about 10 years give or take instead of the 30 Alistair originally said in DAO? Least I heard that somewhere on this forum.

No. Its still 30 years. I think what you read is that some lifespans of Wardens if they are constantly in the Deeproads. While others could last longer.

Modifié par Melca36, 13 septembre 2013 - 03:45 .

[Former_Fiend]

To me the ideal position for him to hold would be the commander of the orleisan wardens. It's potentially important(one presumes we're going to be interacting with the wardens as a faction, especially if we have one in the party), but at the same time, easily interchangeable if he's dead. Put Alistair in the position if he's still with the wardens, Oghren in the position if Loghain's dead and Alistair's king.

[Ryzaki]

Can't Oghren be dead?

Ugh oghren.

[Former_Fiend]

I don't think he ever dies in game. One of the epilogues for Awakening has him dying, I think. But, well, see Anders.

And I take it you have a problem with Oghren?

[Master Warder Z_]

Former_Fiend wrote...

To me the ideal position for him to hold would be the commander of the orleisan wardens. It's potentially important(one presumes we're going to be interacting with the wardens as a faction, especially if we have one in the party), but at the same time, easily interchangeable if he's dead. Put Alistair in the position if he's still with the wardens, Oghren in the position if Loghain's dead and Alistair's king.

Good idea actually and it does suit the task considering he was set to take up recuirtment over there.

Its a logical step from there to be placed in command of those you have taken into the Wardens.

It would certainly be interesting to see a supposedly political neutral Warden watching as Orlais ripped it self apart while some in the Nobility were plotting to reconqueor their provence.

It certainly would add depth if nothing else to the encounter.

I just hope he isn't a burnt out old cripple; I don't expect him to be a solid warrior after eight years of not seeing him but i would expect him to still be the Man he was after the Blight was ended.

Heck maybe he could make a few mentions of the Warden to the Inquistor if nothing else.