11 réponses à ce sujet

[Cmpunker13]

Hi all. I've been playing DA:O after a long time since my first (horrible) playthough with a rogue. Now I'm having fun on nightmare with a warrior tank and I'm already planning a new playthough with a mage.
My problem is that I don't like mages so much. And I don't like dual wield or archers, which make the 2h/SnS warrior the only class I can really enjoy, it seems. However I can't really play those two specs over and over again, can I? So, I loved the Death Knight class in WoW: it's basically a warrior with some necromantic abilities and a few frost spells, and I thought that maybe I could try to loosely adapt it to this game (on nightmare - full party, Shale as a tank).

From what I read on the forum it seems that the Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage/Battlemage could be the spec I'm looking for. I've read something about the AW, but I know nothing about mages talents, so I don't really know if what I have in mind is viable. Basically I'd like to use Entrophy and Spirit, and maybe some Primal. Spells that I think could be used to achieve what I have in mind are the Walking Bomb Tree (Spirit) and Entropy spells, mostly the Disorient Tree (I was thinking about the combo Sleep + Horror) and the Drain Life Tree. Also the combo Death Hex + Death Cloud doesn't look bad... I'm not really interested in the hexes, but they could be an option (especially if other choices, like the disorient tree, are not viable). Primal could be ok for the Frost Weapons, but I don't want to heavily invest in the frost tree. Blood Wound is a must.
I don't know about susteined spells, honestly. I've read about Miasma and Rock Armor/Spell Shield, should I use some more? Is Death Syphon viable? Is there a must-have mage spell that I'm ignoring? Am I overlapping some spells (I mean, maybe I'm going too much into crowd-controlling sacrificing dps)?
Consider that I want to go melee and still be able to use some spells in a fight. I don't want to bring only sustained spells and then autoattack with my sword. Also, I'd prefer to avoid problem with the drawn sword and spellcasting (I don't know what spells need a sheathed sword).

Don't forget I'm going with a full party and Morrigan, and I'll build her as a healer plus Crushing Prison, Haste and Telekinetic Weapons, maybe Mana Clash.

Regarding the attributes, I was thinking about going Magic for a while (35-40?), then Dex to 25 (with Fade bonuses), then all into magic. And some points in constitution at the beginning maybe (is it really useful for blood magic?). Am I goint to suffer the lack of willpower? I think I'll start with Cailin's Armor + Arms, but I'll think about getting Evon the Great's Mail later and Fade Shield (I like them).

I'm open to all suggestions. Feel free to name spells I haven't talked about, even if they're not stricly from the aforementioned trees. Just remember that I want a sort of a warrior with death/plague related spells (I know AW has few to do with that, but still it's necessary for going melee, I guess).
Thank you in advance.

PS: I'm noticing now that the "First Mage playthough in DA:O/ Arcane Warrior" thread could have been a better place to ask without opening a new thread but meh, too late, sorry.

Modifié par Cmpunker13, 12 septembre 2013 - 02:48 .

[keeneaow]

I think you have nailed it down quite well,
only i wonder if you play on PC or console ?
it makes a difference coz there is only so many sustainables you can afford on PC
so sustainables is
arcane shield
rock armor (1st spell must)
flaming weapons (best weapons boost, be sure to stack spell wisp & might b4 activation)
haste (later, you can afford the drain from lv 16, formidable boost))
spell shield (1st spell must, can be replaced or double up vs magic with Shimmering Shield)
telekinetic weapons
ARCANE WARRIOR
all of them are indispensable

The only two spells i bother to cast is Mana clash and blood wound,
but mana clash is easily the best spell in game, use as a one-off 1st kill mages spell,
Cailans is the only arm and armor on PC, and will be hard to beat on console too i reckon

In awakening all attunement line
battlemage up to stoic

Modifié par keeneaow, 11 septembre 2013 - 12:47 .

[Cmpunker13]

keeneaow wrote...

arcane shield
rock armor (1st spell must)
flaming weapons (best weapons boost, be sure to stack spell wisp & might b4 activation)
haste (later, you can afford the drain from lv 16, formidable boost))
spell shield (1st spell must, can be replaced or double up vs magic with Shimmering Shield)
telekinetic weapons
ARCANE WARRIOR
all of them are indispensable

I'm on PC.
I think I'll give Haste and Flaming/Telekinetic to Morrigan, so I won't have to sustein them. This means I have to sustain Combat Magic, Rock Armor (always), Shimmering Shield (just for spell protection), Spell Wisp, right? Is that ok? Will I be able to cast two-three spell per fight (including Blood Wound) with basic willpower or should I had some points there? And what if I add Miasma?

The only two spells i bother to cast is Mana clash and blood wound,
but mana clash is easily the best spell in game, use as a one-off 1st kill mages spell,

Fact is that I won't take Blood Wound until lvl 14, so I won't spend the first part of the game spamming Mana Clash on mooks with mana (and I won't get Mana Clash too soon either) and autoattack the others... I'd like to cast a few more spells per fight.
It seems that Virulent Walking Bomb (and normal Walking Bomb at the beginning) could be a nice addition, alongside Weakness for stronger enemies. Does Miasma make Weakness unnecessary?

Any suggestion for other spells?

Modifié par Cmpunker13, 11 septembre 2013 - 10:22 .

[keeneaow]

Shimmering Shield boost all kinds of defense, if you can afford it, run it always.
Spell shield will have to suffice until you get it, but i will activate spell shield also if
the monsters can debuff me, it can save the day.

Blood spells are always drawn from your life, you need to switch on the blood magic activator before you can cast blood wound, and here is a perfect mod that lets BM stay ON until YOU chose to switch it off
http://social.biowar...ect/1366/#files

On other spells, a matter of taste, but also a matter of having the points to make them active,
arcane mastery will permanently boost spellpower passive, so i always take it,
force field will incapacitate a monster for a long time, or make a companion immune to everything.
Yes, by all means pick WVB if you want to try it out,
personally i think only mana clash can actually make the difference, the rest are for kicks.
I dont use Miasma myself, its another draining aura and i solo anyway so no point in drawing threat,
i think you should go for what looks cool,
you can always go back to beating them with the sword if spells didnt cut it,
but one thing, the spells in awakening are better, you will want 6 un-spent ability points as you enter awakening at lv 25, this immediately gives you 3 out of 4 attunement,
and all 3 battlemage spells you want

[dainbramage]

List of spells that need sheathing is here.

Frost, spirit and entropy would definitely be the best fits. I'd recommend mana clash even if it's not completely in the theme (maybe your death knight learned mana burn from a demon hunter...) because it's so damn useful. Its pre-req spell might fits your theme, especially the necromancy part (spell might + animate dead is a spell combo that makes the skeleton stronger). Early on I'd say take cone of cold and VWB. Those together will annihilate a lot of enemies, though you want crowd control (more than just CoC) before using VWB much. Early crowd control is possible through sending frank (animate dead skeleton) in to tank, waking nightmare, paralysis explosion (or mass paralysis, but this is much weaker. Fits your theme better though, and is only one spell after miasma), or even just having alistair taunt then protecting him with a forcefield. Later on you've got blood wound too.

As far as SW and sustains go, heavy/massive armor and shimmering shield will make you pretty much invulnerable. Unfortunately shimmering shield comes with 10 mana drain, so keeping it up indefinitely requires pretty much your entire gear devoted to regen. That's not too hard if you're going SnS (Cailan's arms gives you +5.75 regen), if you're 2h it's a lot tougher though. Other obvious sustains would be frost weapons (flaming is better, but doesn't fit - plus morigan can do that) and miasma (which helps with your poor attack).

Good spells which don't fit the theme are the glyphs and the heroic offense tree. Glyphs are amazing crowd control, heroic offense gives you much needed attack, and haste is great for hitting stuff. If you have another mage though they can take these.

EDIT: If you're going 2h then starfang is better than chasind great maul - again because of the attack bonus.

Modifié par dainbramage, 12 septembre 2013 - 04:56 .

[Cmpunker13]

@dainbramage

Thanks for the list! Unfortunately it seems that all frost spells except Weapons requires a sheathed sword. The same for Waking Nightmare... I think that's very annoying and I really do not wish to have to draw/sheat my sword all the time.

Plus, I fear three things:

1) I'll be weak early on (the only part when the game is really hard, imo), til lvl 7. If I begin to set myself up for mid-late game (going for Mana Clash) I have to ignore spells that could help me at the beginning; still I have to take spells that I won't need later (Heal, maybe Rock Armor). It'll be harder early on to use Walking Bomb I guess. Suggestions?

2) I fear that I'll be an autoattack bot, and I really want to avoid that. I won't take Blood Wound until lvl 16, Mana Clash can't be used against all opponents, and you need four points in its tree, so I won't get it early on. Should I spam Weakness and setting up the VWB for the whole game? It seems quite boring... at least the undead minion should be interesting, I think.

3) Considering that I need Combat Magic and a defensive susteined on, and maybe Miasma and/or Spell Might, again I can already see my toon becoming an autoattack bot for the lack of mana. Do I have to put something in willpower?

Modifié par Cmpunker13, 12 septembre 2013 - 10:40 .

[keeneaow]

I use equipment to compensate for mana pool at low level,
By lv 7, if you did the right thing to get magic 42, you get to wear Blood armor that comes with + mana, +life, and lotsa armor.
The quick speed up to magic 42 also served the purpose if giving your arcane bolt a good kick
until you hit lv 7, as well as magic base attack, and that can be boosted with wisp or might too.
You really wont be weak when you have rock armor from lv 1, and i have it active from lv 1 until i finished awakening, and then in the entire GoA too.
Mana shield help you survive magic attacks until lv 14, and even after when you risk debuff.

You -dont -actually -need -combat -magic -on if you want to dish out spells.

In all builds there will be a point where you are optimized depending how you spent stats,
but consider that you gain free mana pool for every level-up, and blood dragon chest, warden commander boots +50 mana etc, and i advice against willpower,
just get the needed mana pool from equipment in beginning

Modifié par keeneaow, 12 septembre 2013 - 11:16 .

[dainbramage]

Cmpunker13 wrote...

@dainbramage

Thanks for the list! Unfortunately it seems that all frost spells except Weapons requires a sheathed sword. The same for Waking Nightmare... I think that's very annoying and I really do not wish to have to draw/sheat my sword all the time.

Plus, I fear three things:

1) I'll be weak early on (the only part when the game is really hard, imo), til lvl 7. If I begin to set myself up for mid-late game (going for Mana Clash) I have to ignore spells that could help me at the beginning; still I have to take spells that I won't need later (Heal, maybe Rock Armor). It'll be harder early on to use Walking Bomb I guess. Suggestions?

2) I fear that I'll be an autoattack bot, and I really want to avoid that. I won't take Blood Wound until lvl 16, Mana Clash can't be used against all opponents, and you need four points in its tree, so I won't get it early on. Should I spam Weakness and setting up the VWB for the whole game? It seems quite boring... at least the undead minion should be interesting, I think.

3) Considering that I need Combat Magic and a defensive susteined on, and maybe Miasma and/or Spell Might, again I can already see my toon becoming an autoattack bot for the lack of mana. Do I have to put something in willpower?

Early on if you take VWB you won't be weak. If you also take glyph of repulsion you'll be really strong. I wouldn't take mana clash that early, it's a better pick in your teens or so. Heal isn't necessary in my experience, nor is rock armour unless you *really* want to tank.

For sustains, only toggle them as needed. If you're casting turn combat magic off. If you're whacking sutff turn it back on. Leave shimmering shield off unless something's hitting you hard. If you're missing a lot turn on miasma, etc. Defensive sustains other than shimmering shield aren't really needed unless you're soloing or wearing robes or something (evon's + wade's + helm of honnleath and shimmering shield is 48 armor and all resistances maxed). In practice combat magic and shimmering shield will be like a quarter of your mana pool (shimmering also eats up all your regen), if you want all available defensive sustains on and an offensive one or two you'll be using something like 90% - but that *is* pretty much resigning yourself to be an autoattack bot (though casting purely with blood magic here is actually very viable since you're essentially invulnerable), but also not necessary. You really don't need 90 armour, nothing in the game that's not named ser cauthrien hits for that. Anyway, I've never needed willpower.

Modifié par dainbramage, 12 septembre 2013 - 12:08 .

[Cmpunker13]

Thx both for the infos, guys!

Let's see, if I decide to tank, I need to go Combat magic + Shimmering + Rock Armor + Miasma? Because I was thinking that, by putting all the other partymembers to ranged, I could start the fight with Blood Magic on, hitting with Blood Wound, then deactivate it and cast VWB on the first enemy I clash with, just to get Force Fielded by Morrigan. Eventually, I could activate Spell Might just to get a buffed dead minion up. I wouldn't mind to sheath the sword to get a cone of cold for clustered mobs.
Is it viable? The sustained are ok or I need less (or more)? Also, what spells can help me rise threat?
Eventually with a tank should I stick with Cailan's armor + arms or should I go Evon's+Helm of H and stack defense (like, gloves+boots of diligence)?

Modifié par Cmpunker13, 12 septembre 2013 - 01:00 .

[keeneaow]

Cailans arms boost +5 manaregeneration, but,
Cailens armor boost +5 life regeneration !!
So if you're playing with the idea of using Blood magic, then look no further,
the regeneration from armor is not affected by the hit for healing that blood magic activator impose.
I appreciate rock armor when i nightmare solo beat up High Dragon,
over 60 armor so i have time to take a lesser health after a couple of good bites

you may be interested in this mod if sheathing causes you pause
http://social.bioware.com/project/683/

Modifié par keeneaow, 12 septembre 2013 - 01:18 .

[dainbramage]

Generally I use miasma for the -defence rather than -attack. Your own defence is very poor and requires quite a lot of effort to make respectable (like arcane armor+heroic defence+glyph of warding just to get it above 100, which is still going to be 50% hits. With high spellpower, libertarian's cowl and magus war boots you can approach being unhittable, but IMO it's still more effort than it's worth), but more importantly your armor is more than enough to tank. Especially with rock armor and shimmering shield up, everything not named ser cauthrien will be hitting for 0 damage (OTOH cauthrien lights up perfect striking if you have high defence, so that won't save you either). Combat magic is also optional when tanking, since the only defensive boost it provies is +10 defence.

Lacking taunt, the best way to generate threat is to nuke. Blood wound also generates a ton, but comes late. With enough crowd control, you also don't need a tank.

For armour I like evon's paired with Wade's superior dragonscale boots and gauntlets. This combination gets the set bonus so you get good armour, some regen and very low fatigue. Life regen on cailans would be great... if anything was capable of dealing damage to you.

Modifié par dainbramage, 12 septembre 2013 - 01:19 .

[Cmpunker13]

Thank you a lot guys, your contributions have been very helpful