334 réponses à ce sujet

[Eragon-]

 ^ Well, the ad did get you to look at the game 

[Sylvianus]

Eeeer, when you suddenly decide to buy a game while doing shopping, you could only rely on the cover, its art and what is written on its back. ( to learn a bit more ) Just saying ...

[Plaintiff]

The Mad Hanar wrote...
^ why do people type their replies like that. It makes it a real hassle to reply to them. <_<

I do it so that I can address each point individually.

I don't get why you would knock developers for using a strategy to sell the most games possible.

I don't. I knock them for being sheep. I also knock them for ignoring completely untapped "minority" audiences that, minority though they may be, still number in the millions and represent a lot of potential revenue if anybody would make the effort to appeal to them.

Targeting to their largest demographic, making them feel like they're a part of the game, is smart business sense.

And ignoring your smaller demographics is bad business sense. Ignoring new demographics is also bad business sense.

There is nothing to suggest that female protagonists hold games back, but there is no proof showing that female protagonists push games off of shelves either. Bayonetta, Mirror's Edge, Remember Me and the new Tomb Raider all had modest sales and modest review scores. Is this a product of advertising and money put into the products? Who knows. If it is, can you really blame developers for playing it safe in a time where a lot of companies are going under?

They've been "playing it safe", and by your own admission that's not working out for a lot of them. If a developer is "going under" anyway, then they have nothing to lose by taking risks.

[n7stormrunner]

hmm, is this the 3 or 4 one of these in the pass few months... thought from a so called " privileged" the game could have a bright pink bloodmother with little hearts surrounding it and I would still buy it, and I don't buy games for the cover.

[Silfren]

[quote]KBomb wrote...

It's just my opinion, but I wish social agendas and political correctness would just stay out of video games. [/quote]
[/quote]

Personally I wish people would cease and desist with the idiotic notion that maintainin the status quo is somehow NOT a social agenda.  It's NO LESS an agenda than the kind of content us so-called social justice warriors would prefer to see.

[spirosz]

Plaintiff wrote...

ignoring completely untapped "minority" audiences that, minority though they may be, still number in the millions and represent a lot of potential revenue if anybody would make the effort to appeal to them.

Targeting to their largest demographic, making them feel like they're a part of the game, is smart business sense.

And ignoring your smaller demographics is bad business sense. Ignoring new demographics is also bad business sense.

They aren't ignoring it compeletly, but they work the stats, as all buisness that thrive, they see where they gain the most and go for that specific aspect and the problem here is, that the minority isn't something that is a 60/40 per-say, more like an 85-15, as I was suprised by the stats they pulled for ME3 and the trilogy in general.   By the end of the day, I see Bioware always focusing on that 85. 

Mind you, those 85-15 (so people don't go ape****) is just #'s out of my ass.  

[Silfren]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Friera wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

I am a guy, but love a badass female protagonist. Can't play a male in Bioware games because of it.

I am a woman, but I love badass male protagonist. Can´t play a female in Bioware games because of it.

But honestly, I don´t really care who is default or not. Don´t see the reason why people are so ... opinionated about it, since the game is excactly the same regardless of default gender.

I imagine it is because Bioware has a history of being progressive and inclusive in other aspects of their games. With how women are reprsented, with same-sex issues. And so, many people hope that they would dare challenge the norm of having men on covers of video games yet again. 

Why people are so wildly proclaiming that video games with women on the cover won't sell, is a better question. 

WE aren't saying that. We're pointing out that the marketing industry says it; and that's a fact, it isn't something we just invented.  You get the very same argument from the book publishing industry in regards to PoC characters gracing the covers of books.

[Thiefy]

Tequila Cat wrote...

Misandrist.

Cry me more of your privilege tears. they are so delicious lol

The Tomb Raider reboot has so far sold rough 4 million copies world wide, but I guess that just isn't enough since it has a female protagonist . Clearly her rack alone should have brought in 6 million, and the fact that she has a personality AND a gun as a bonus deserves another 2 million on top of that. 

And then there's RE6. Let's talk about that game. I liked it (because I'm a RE fan). It was still a crappy game. It was a crappy game because it was linear, had too many button press events in the cutscenes, and had 4 different menus that players had to get used to when swapping between characters. Let's talk about the character. There's 6 protagonists, 2 being the main ones and heavily promoted/hyped in order to boost the presales. They've always been super popular and fan favorites: Chris Redfield and Leon S Kennedy.

Despite that the game still did not do well, even though the series has a pretty good track record of producing quality games.

The protagonist have nothing to do with the game failing.

Read that again.

Now take a few minutes to comprehend that. I'll wait. 






Ready? Good. Now, just so we are on the same page here, let's just touch base on what I said and what you *think* I said: The two most important characters that were also used as the promotional faces of RE6, who happened to be men, were not the cause of the game "failing".

Let's take this one step further - if this game can afford to take a critical look at itself and point out it's own flaws without blaming it on a character or a character's gender, why can't the same be done for games with female protagonists? (don't worry, I'll connect the dots for you so it's easier for you to understand)

Developers CAN do that, they simply choose not to. You're welcome.

Fatal Frame is actually a highly rated series amongst survivor horror fans. If that's not your genre, it's no surprise you haven't heard of it. Doesn't mean it's not successful. Especially considering that when FF4, which was a Wii exclusive, wasn't released for the NA market, fans brought it upon themselves to provide a free patch to translate the japanese game into english. Pretty short sighted of Nintendo imo. I'm sure Playstation and Xbox would have jumped on that.

despite your notion that putting a woman on the cover would help the game in anyway, it didn't and it doesn't. 

Where did I say that? Where did I even imply that? Maybe I'm speaking spanish or something, idk because there is a communication issue going on here if that's what you got out of my post, lol. Latin@ people, help me out here. 

What I've been saying is that the theory that men sell better than women (and that's why there's more of them) is garbage. There's been plenty of games that featured a male protagonist that have failed (and I'd wager, more games that have failed featuring male protagonists compared to games that have failed featuring female protagonists simply because there's that many more of them) but it's never thought that they failed because they have a third leg. Games featuring a female protagonist that fail, however, fail simply because the main character has two X chromosomes. (Clearly Lara Croft needed bigger breasts if she wanted to sell more games.)

Now are you going to walk up and tell the likes of Ken Lavine that he should put a woman on the cover of BioShock Infinite because it's right? When he went and tested the penetration of the previous Bioshock games' marketing with the largest demographic "white males" and found that it didn't actually appeal to them, yet when they actually played Infinite they enjoyed it and noted the gameplay was similar to what they wanted, regardless of marketing?

Wow sir, wow.

Thank you.

You have no idea how much this made me smile and laugh. You've just made the point that a crap ton of people have been trying to make and believed for some silly reason it was in your favor, but lmao whatever man.

Straight white (cis)males are being catered to.  (constantly) If they are not, they can't be bothered to try something new, despite the possibility it may be exactly what they want. Catering to them also often comes at the cost of discluding resources, content, or representation of PoC, women and the LGTBA community.

In other news, water is wet.

[Magdalena11]

Amazingly enough, I'm going to disagree with the OP on this one. Perhaps I'm feeling especially powerful or something but right now I see my female inquisitor wreaking havok among her weaker counterparts. I'll be back tomorrow and complain then.

[n7stormrunner]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Tequila Cat wrote...

Misandrist.

Cry me more of your privilege tears. they are so delicious lol

The Tomb Raider reboot has so far sold rough 4 million copies world wide, but I guess that just isn't enough since it has a female protagonist . Clearly her rack alone should have brought in 6 million, and the fact that she has a personality AND a gun as a bonus deserves another 2 million on top of that. 

And then there's RE6. Let's talk about that game. I liked it (because I'm a RE fan). It was still a crappy game. It was a crappy game because it was linear, had too many button press events in the cutscenes, and had 4 different menus that players had to get used to when swapping between characters. Let's talk about the character. There's 6 protagonists, 2 being the main ones and heavily promoted/hyped in order to boost the presales. They've always been super popular and fan favorites: Chris Redfield and Leon S Kennedy.

Despite that the game still did not do well, even though the series has a pretty good track record of producing quality games.

The protagonist have nothing to do with the game failing.

Read that again.

Now take a few minutes to comprehend that. I'll wait. 






Ready? Good. Now, just so we are on the same page here, let's just touch base on what I said and what you *think* I said: The two most important characters that were also used as the promotional faces of RE6, who happened to be men, were not the cause of the game "failing".

Let's take this one step further - if this game can afford to take a critical look at itself and point out it's own flaws without blaming it on a character or a character's gender, why can't the same be done for games with female protagonists? (don't worry, I'll connect the dots for you so it's easier for you to understand)

Developers CAN do that, they simply choose not to. You're welcome.

Fatal Frame is actually a highly rated series amongst survivor horror fans. If that's not your genre, it's no surprise you haven't heard of it. Doesn't mean it's not successful. Especially considering that when FF4, which was a Wii exclusive, wasn't released for the NA market, fans brought it upon themselves to provide a free patch to translate the japanese game into english. Pretty short sighted of Nintendo imo. I'm sure Playstation and Xbox would have jumped on that.

despite your notion that putting a woman on the cover would help the game in anyway, it didn't and it doesn't. 

Where did I say that? Where did I even imply that? Maybe I'm speaking spanish or something, idk because there is a communication issue going on here if that's what you got out of my post, lol. Latin@ people, help me out here. 

What I've been saying is that the theory that men sell better than women (and that's why there's more of them) is garbage. There's been plenty of games that featured a male protagonist that have failed (and I'd wager, more games that have failed featuring male protagonists compared to games that have failed featuring female protagonists simply because there's that many more of them) but it's never thought that they failed because they have a third leg. Games featuring a female protagonist that fail, however, fail simply because the main character has two X chromosomes. (Clearly Lara Croft needed bigger breasts if she wanted to sell more games.)

Now are you going to walk up and tell the likes of Ken Lavine that he should put a woman on the cover of BioShock Infinite because it's right? When he went and tested the penetration of the previous Bioshock games' marketing with the largest demographic[/b] "white males" and found that it didn't actually appeal to them, yet when they actually played Infinite they enjoyed it and noted the gameplay was [/u][u][b]similar to what they wanted, regardless of marketing?

Wow sir, wow.

Thank you.

You have no idea how much this made me smile and laugh. You've just made the point that a crap ton of people have been trying to make and believed for some silly reason it was in your favor, but lmao whatever man.

Straight white (cis)males are being catered to.  (constantly) If they are not, they can't be bothered to try something new, despite the possibility it may be exactly what they want. Catering to them also often comes at the cost of discluding resources, content, or representation of PoC, women and the LGTBA community.

In other news, water is wet.

oh good, I was wondering how I was going to try to explain why some may be against it not because, eww women, but because of topics like this. it's the post like this. the first time time I saw a female inquisitor topic my thought was sure, and I was ready to discuss what she could look like... after a few of these I changes my mind... now I think the should pay  atlus for the rights to put  mara on the cover.

[syllogi]

spirosz wrote...

They aren't ignoring it compeletly, but they work the stats, as all buisness that thrive, they see where they gain the most and go for that specific aspect and the problem here is, that the minority isn't something that is a 60/40 per-say, more like an 85-15, as I was suprised by the stats they pulled for ME3 and the trilogy in general.   By the end of the day, I see Bioware always focusing on that 85. 

Mind you, those 85-15 (so people don't go ape****) is just #'s out of my ass.  

I'd love it if they released statistics for DA:O and DA2 the way they did for ME2 & 3, but since they haven't, yeah, we can't assume anything about who plays Dragon Age games.  I don't doubt that more guys play than women, but we can't assume that they're all playing male characters, or that they'd be adverse to seeing female characters in advertising.

I'm pretty sure this thread is *just* about marketing the game, right?  It seems like these types of threads always veer into "boys rule, girls drool" territory pretty fast.  I just want a wicked cool poster with a female elf, dwarf, or qunari Inquisitor on it.  I'm pretty sure catering to my uterus in such a manner will not decrease sales of DA:I.

[OLDIRTYBARON]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

... Despite that the game [Resident Evil 6] still did not do well,

Bull****. It sold six million copies. Capcom said it performed "below expectations," not that it didn't turn a profit or that it tanked like Aveline.

But please, go on. The amount of salt in your post could preserve an entire butcher shop. It's quite entertaining.

[canarius]

People will think the game takes place in a kitchen. Nobody will buy the game if they do that. It will bomb worse than DA2 if they use a female.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Thief-of-Hearts just because you think straight white (cis, who actually uses that word?) males are being catered to doesn't mean you're entitled to additional content which you think will appeal more to other markets. Especially when this content is something as minor as the "default" PC which is used for promotional purposes, possibly the box art, and the default of the character creation screen. This is a simply non-issue.

[OLDIRTYBARON]

canarius wrote...

People will think the game takes place in a kitchen. Nobody will buy the game if they do that. It will bomb worse than DA2 if they use a female.

Seriously though, I chuckled.

[Melca36]

ShadyKat wrote...

Most gamers are white males, ranging from 15-35 years old. That is why most games have the same protagonist as this. So expect most promotional artwork and in game vids to be of a human white male. Hell, the vids from pax have already shown this to be true.











Also not saying this is a bad thing or good thing, it's just the way it is.

Actually the average gamer age is 28 and 47% of gamers are now female

Modifié par Melca36, 12 septembre 2013 - 04:11 .

[Seboist]

Melca36 wrote...

ShadyKat wrote...

Most gamers are white males, ranging from 15-35 years old. That is why most games have the same protagonist as this. So expect most promotional artwork and in game vids to be of a human white male. Hell, the vids from pax have already shown this to be true.











Also not saying this is a bad thing or good thing, it's just the way it is.

Actually the average gamer age is 28 and 47% of gamers are now female

That's a grossly inflated number that includes users of facebook crap.

[Melca36]

canarius wrote...

People will think the game takes place in a kitchen. Nobody will buy the game if they do that. It will bomb worse than DA2 if they use a female.

Guess you are in denial that 47% of gamers are now women. You obviously dont like us invading your mancave.

They said they would be using the female for the marketing awhile back. I doubt it will be for the box art but the woman will be seen in the marketing. I suggest you learn to deal with it

[Melca36]

Seboist wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

ShadyKat wrote...

Most gamers are white males, ranging from 15-35 years old. That is why most games have the same protagonist as this. So expect most promotional artwork and in game vids to be of a human white male. Hell, the vids from pax have already shown this to be true.











Also not saying this is a bad thing or good thing, it's just the way it is.

Actually the average gamer age is 28 and 47% of gamers are now female

That's a grossly inflated number that includes users of facebook crap.

In denial I see. What are you afraid of? Why do you resent women playing games? Its not 1993 anymore its 2013. The market has to change. Deal with it

[d-boy15]

Dragon Age is different from Tomb Raider, it wasn't established itself as female lead game.
So, the marketing of both game supposed to be different.

[Bionuts]

Why not just put both on the cover?