334 réponses à ce sujet

[KBomb]

greengoron89 wrote...

There's being polite, and then there's being a doormat. Some of the more militant PC types would have you be more the latter than the former, which sort of kills any desire to be "polite" in the first place.

That's not even in regards to the thread topic. I could care less what's on the front cover if the game itself is good (or bad), nor would most people I'd wager, "privileged" or not.

Well said.

[spirosz]

KBomb wrote...

greengoron89 wrote...

There's being polite, and then there's being a doormat. Some of the more militant PC types would have you be more the latter than the former, which sort of kills any desire to be "polite" in the first place.

That's not even in regards to the thread topic. I could care less what's on the front cover if the game itself is good (or bad), nor would most people I'd wager, "privileged" or not.

Well said.

That's why I'm wondering what all the fuss is about, especially since we're in a day and age, where a cover is irrelevant because of how much we can find out about the game itself.  The only time I used to buy a game for the cover, was when I was a kid.  And I'm assuming... (talking about BSN here) that since you have internet access... you can do more than just go off a "cover".  

All that shiit about "equality" and all that, I ask myself - are we forced to play a specific gender?  No.

Modifié par spirosz, 12 septembre 2013 - 12:00 .

[Sylvianus]

KBomb wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Yeah overall It would be more about preferences than anything else. ( I didn't even think about sexism personally, it was just an observation. ) There are also female gamers that don't play one game or another because the protagonist isn't female, aren't at all interested into male protagonists ( don't know why and never bothered to ask though ). For example my sister only play games with female protagonists ( couldn't connect to male protagonists except if they are hot guys like Ezio. <_< )

So if it is sexism, it goes both way lol.

For a long time, I couldn't stand myself games with female protagonists. Never was attracted, never wanted to try. And I'm not sure which was the reason that led me to think that way. It's after trying femshep in M2 that I totally changed my mind.

I remember a discussion I had with someone about the lack of romance options for female Shepard and I was naming off the available options when the person I was discussing it with mentioned that I forgot Samantha. I stated I don't do gay romances and they person called me a homophobe. I have also been called a "racist" because I won't romance dwarves either. So, words like that float around constantly in place of simple personal preference. I think the number of people who refuse to play a game unless it has an >insert male or female< , or chooses the game based strictly on box art is probably a low number when compared against those who play games based on word of mouth, reviews, experiences, etc.

I'd rather not see a floodgate open of video games being used as a medium to right social "wrongs". That's just my feeling on it.

Agreed with your post. That's why I don't think the cover will have much effect. I'd be glad with anything anyway.

[KBomb]

spirosz wrote...


That's why I'm wondering what all the fuss is about, especially since we're in a day and age, where a cover is irrelevant because of how much we can find out about the game itself.  The only time I used to buy a game for the cover, was when I was a kid.  And I'm assuming... (talking about BSN here) that since you have internet access... you can do more than just go off a "cover".  

All that shiit about "equality" and all that, I ask myself - are we forced to play a specific gender?  No.

I am just trying to figure out what exactly the "privileged" player is. I might be in that ilk, but I am not sure.

[spirosz]

KBomb wrote...
I am just trying to figure out what exactly the "privileged" player is. I might be in that ilk, but I am not sure. 

I don't believe there is one.  

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

It's kinda sad that for all the promise in the gameplay videos, I have yet to see one single thread on quest design, or destructible and interactive environments and ways for companions to become useful in dialog or other non-combat activities (puzzles, crafting).

Or a perhaps discussion on a camp system (which can become particularly important in making all companions useful and fun to play with even if you don't bring them with you).

Yet a thread like boxart always seems to shoot up to the top. I mean, this is really what people on the BSN prioritise? This, romances and hair colour options?

I am not surprised, but it's still kinda sad.

"Why don't you make a thread about it then?"

"I would, and have in the past, but why bother when I know that is this what BSN truly cares about."

[Chromie]

CrustyBot wrote...
Yet a thread like boxart always seems to shoot up to the top. I mean, this is really what people on the BSN prioritise? This, romances and hair colour options? .

Romance > gameplay/content

[Steelcan]

spirosz wrote...

KBomb wrote...
I am just trying to figure out what exactly the "privileged" player is. I might be in that ilk, but I am not sure. 

I don't believe there is one.  

The privileged play through is the straight white male of course

[KBomb]

Steelcan wrote...

The privileged play through is the straight white male of course

Yes, but what if you're a straight white female playing a straight white male?

Modifié par KBomb, 12 septembre 2013 - 12:31 .

[Sylvianus]

I'm trying to figure out what means privilege too since a long time, and I still can't understand its meaning to be honest. This word is so often used, and so often irrelevant that sometimes I'm totally lost.

From what I understand, privilege means someone who is unaware of something because of his good situation. Someone who has everything and can't aknowledge those who don't share the same thing.

Basically, a privileged player can't say anything because he has everything, his opinion is dismissed because he is necessarily unaware of what happens around him, etc etc.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 12 septembre 2013 - 12:35 .

[theflyingzamboni]

I've seen several people complain that this is a topic about box art, and even more talking about box art. I don't know why this is, other than we're on an internet forum and that's just the kind of thing that happens to topics. This was not supposed to be a topic about box art. It was supposed to be about the default character for the purposes of what shows up first when you are creating a character, with marketing/box art being subsidiary to this in the case that either of these things feature the PC at all.

Everyone also seems to be arguing, increasingly angrily, about not using media (or at least games in particular) to convey a social message. Ignoring the fact that I happen to disagree with this (movies and music have had social and political messages for decades, why not games?), but that's an exaggeration of what I was saying anyway. I am NOT saying that BioWare should make the female protagonist a central feature of their marketing, and go public with statements on equality in gaming, and just generally raise up a brouhaha. I AM saying that I would like to see them use a female for the go-to default in-game and in promotional material that happens to include the PC, and then say absolutely nothing about it. Treat it as if it's nothing out of the ordinary in the industry. That would be far more effective a statement than making a big deal about it, and less likely to get the reactionaries angry. Anyone who didn't want to think about it would not have to, and the game itself would still be the focus of everyone's attention.

So that big bogeyman of people speaking out for ideas that you disagree with or don't want to think about wouldn't even show up. The marketing and the game would still be all about the game, and the industry could take a step away from the preeminence of the grizzled white male protagonist, all with no fuss. Unless seeing a woman's face on a game cover just gets your goat automatically. For those people, I'm afraid, there's no hope.

[AlexanderCousland]

greengoron89 wrote...

It means that, as a society made up mostly of and dominated by white people, that we get the most preference and representation in said society.

Some call it "privilege." I call it "painfully obvious." It's like saying that in China, Chinese people get the most preference and representation. No s***, Sherlock?

I couldn't agree with your point more. I'll just add this little bit though, America is changing it is no longer predominantly white, if you count "Minorities" as one group and White' s as the "Majority", we need to reverse the title's because White' s are the minority. Black' s now have children who are born into Wealth and Prosperity 2nd generation and soon to be 3rd, and Latino' s a quickly rising up the ladder. So "Dominate" might not be the quite the right word, at least not anymore. I really dont get the Male vs. Female battle though, nobody wins WAYY too much fraternizing between the sex' s. IMO it's jealousy, Female's want to be respected by Men as a Man would respect another Man, and that simply is out of the realm of possibility. 

[d-boy15]

Profit > Political message

[Eragon-]

FreshIstay wrote...

 I really dont get the Male vs. Female battle though, nobody wins WAYY too much fraternizing between the sex' s. IMO it's jealousy, Female's want to be respected by Men as a Man would respect another Man, and that simply is out of the realm of possibility. 

Are people getting delirious by the day or is this the norm ?

Are you even trying to make sense ?

[General TSAR]

d-boy15 wrote...

Profit > Political message

[Plaintiff]

spirosz wrote...
That's why I'm wondering what all the fuss is about, especially since we're in a day and age, where a cover is irrelevant because of how much we can find out about the game itself.

The supposed irreelevence of videogame covers didn't stop controversy from arising over the designs for The Last of Us and Bioshock Infinite.

The mainstream gaming audience doesn't go out of its way to seek additional information on a new game.

[The Night Mammoth]

The Mad Hanar wrote...
There is no oppression, segregation or bias going on the industry.

There is bias in the industry, it's just getting better and looks less prominent because several games with female protagonists or important characters, and I mean actually important, marketed and highly visible, that have come out in a relatively short space of time.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 12 septembre 2013 - 01:28 .

[Sylvianus]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I'm just not seeing why this is an issue. Mass Effect 3 promoted FemShep heavily through the redesign on Facebook, the box art, Femshep specific advertisements and only 18% of people played as Femshep.

Yeah, I was shocked, and many people surprised too when we saw the results. I couldn't believe it personally, because that is exactly the same number as M2, which didn't do marketting at all for femshep.