17 réponses à ce sujet

[fiveforchaos]

 So I was reading through some of David Gaider’s tumblr
essays (having just discovered he had a tumblr), and I did notice that his
opinion on romances does indeed seem to fit what BSN has generally depicted it
as. He enjoys them as tertiary plot points that help get the player more
emotionally invested in the game, but he agrees with many players that he doesn’t
want every character to be a random sex object, answerable to the player’s beck
and call. One comment in particular stood out to me however. When discussing
the people who tend to obsesses over romance, he pointed out that many of them
seem to have the false perception that romances are the “end all be all” of
intimate relationships (I’m paraphrasing here).

He makes a very valid point. There are lots of very
emotionally fulfilling relationships out there that are not and will never be
romantic in nature. Relationships in real life are defined by lots of little
nuances, with romances being just the tip of the iceberg.

However, in Bioware games, romances tend to be the only
manner of developing a relationship with a character beyond simple friendship
or rivalry. Unless the game designs a certain character to be that way, there’s
no way of defining who your “best friend” or “worse rival” is. There’s no way
of specifying which of your maxed out friendship companions you’ve come to see
as family, and which ones are still just good friends to you. What’s resulted
is a lot of players looking for more intimate relationships with certain characters
and hitting a roadblock because the character they liked didn’t quite fit as a
romance option.

Does it have to be this way? Think of how wonderful it would
be if anyone could visit Shepard in his/her cabin before the final battle
depending on who s/he had formed the strongest bond with. And wouldn’t it be
nice if the person to comfort an un-romanced Hawke after Leandra’s death was
his/her best friend, rather than just Aveline by default?

Practically of course, offering the player non-romantic
relationship options would take a lot of resources to implement, but it seems
like something that would be nice for Bioware, a company so well known for its
characters, to experiment with in DA:I or some future game.

What do you guys think? Would the option of having deep,
non-romantic friendships with specific characters be worthwhile?  Or would such content not be worth the
resources?

Tl;dr: Would you be game for an optional “best friend”
mechanic in DA:I similar to the current romance mechanic? Yes or No? 

[-TC1989-]

This is something Mass Effect could have used more of. Not to get too far away from Dragon Age, but putting up with Liara constantly trying to break down the friend barrier was more than a little annoying. But yes, I think it would be worthwhile to keep certain relationships on a friendship level, and make sure its understood that's where it ends. I mean, I guess it would also be possible for maybe someone to take a more intimate interest in you, maybe if your choices are on a consistent basis with how they think? I don't know, maybe I'm over thinking it, but I like this idea as a whole.

[Biotic Sage]

I thought Aveline and Varric were fine examples of friends. I'm sure Varric will be romanceable in DA:I though, and I definitely don't think that's a bad thing either. There doesn't have to be a "cabin visit" from a love-interest or otherwise in the first place. The "cabin visit" kind of undermines the unique nature of each relationship, in my opinion, because it's like a copy and paste sort of thing. Basically you pick a romance option, and whoever you picked shows up at the same pre-defined point in the game for a cabin visit. Each relationship ideally should feel unique to the character you are romancing (or friending, or being a jerk to for that matter). This is tough to do obviously, both in terms of resources and practice, but the Dragon Age devs seem very interested in tackling some uncharted territory with DA:I. I'm excited to see what they do!

[Shazzie]

fiveforchaos wrote...
Tl;dr: Would you be game for an optional “best friend”
mechanic in DA:I similar to the current romance mechanic? Yes or No? 

YES. Yes, yes yes, yesyes.

I really enjoy the romances, but I enjoy them because I enjoy the relationship building... and, as stated, there are LOTS of different kinds of relationships.

When Morrigan told me she had never had a friend before, but she now had one, my heart melted.  I want to care about my companions, in various unique ways for each of them, because they are all written as unique personalities.

The better that goes, the better and more longer-lasting my memories will be of the entire game in the long run.

[Ellyria]

If we want to jump into JRPGs for a moment, Tales of Symphonia had an invisible affection meter, and whoever you had the highest affection with came to visit you during a certain point in the story just to hang out and talk. They also gave you some leniency with it, if you didn't want to talk to the person who showed up, you could say "no thanks" and then the person with the next highest affection would show up, and you could do that with the top four people. It was nice. 


So yes, I'm all for having best friends and whatnot in DAI, as long as we have some control over who it is, even if it calculates how much you talk to said person versus everyone else.

[wright1978]

Well i think the smarter they can get in terms of relationships with companions/squaddies the better rather than just falling back on using defaults such as Liara instances in ME3.

[GloriousDame]

YES!

My biggest reason for choosing BioWare games over others is because of the romance feature- it is a fantastic way of immersing players into the game, and get them deeply invested in the story/game.  For example, Fall Out and Skyrim are fantastic games: We have the freedom of sandbox games paired with good stories, but when (SPOILER ALERT) the Lone Wanderer's dad sacrifices himself, as emotional as that point was written to be, I wasn't as upset as when Hawke's mother died.  Yes, we got glimpses of James' and LW's parent-child relationship, but I was more emotionally invested in DA2 for many reasons.  I even remember Leandra mentioning Fenris or whomever it is that you romanced and it just hurt to lose her all the more to note she took notice of her child's whereabouts. Now take Skyrim: great look, vast stories, but poor effort in regards to interactions with other characters.

The romance feature is important to me because it takes me deeper in the game. I don't like losing companions in any games, like Charon, Lidia, etc. But losing them brings only a "damn it," sort of reaction from me.  I absolutely would HATE to lose companions like Garrus, Liara, Wrex, Alistair, Sten, and Morrigan because I developed relationships with them- whether romance or friendships.  Which is what makes DA2 a poorer quality than DAO- where the friendship and relationship opportunities were staged and limited, unlike DAO or ME, where I could have my Warden Elf slowly build a friendship with Sten, or carefully chip away Morrigan's wall into a great friendship, etc.  So, in short, any feature that allows me to interact with, and build relationships and friendships with other characters like DAO or ME, gets my respect. 

I would love to have a friendship feature like OP mentioned, or even just the old DAO style of friendships.

Modifié par ArinTheirinCousland, 11 septembre 2013 - 11:34 .

[Taura-Tierno]

In Mass Effect, my Shepard was good friends with Garrus. There was a nice scene in ME3 about that.

You could get pretty close to Alistair, at least, without ever romancing him. Same with a lot of characters in DA2. And then there's Aveline.

I don't think they've neglected the non-romance relationships ...

[snackrat]

Aveline is a great friend, although their relationship feel a little like 'forced closeness' to start with, it grows into its own.
Morrigan makes a surprising friend, as well, especially for men since it has that vibe of "Wait, you DON'T want to jump my bones...? Weird. Never happened to me before."

For ME3, the friendship with Garrus seemed really natural, as you constantly sass each other and such rather just boring "you are my friend and I like that" interaction you might be from others.
Varric touched on the above as well, though there wasn't quite as back snark-to-snark combat as I might have liked

Modifié par Karsciyin, 11 septembre 2013 - 12:16 .

[Grog Muffins]

fiveforchaos wrote...

Does it have to be this way? Think of how wonderful it would be if anyone could visit Shepard in his/her cabin before the final battle depending on who s/he had formed the strongest bond with. And wouldn’t it be nice if the person to comfort an un-romanced Hawke after Leandra’s death was his/her best friend, rather than just Aveline by default

Neverwinter Nights 2 had a moment like this after the trial for the Ember massacre. During the vigil before the duel with Lorne, the characters you have the highest influence with come and visit you and give you advice and wish you luck. Nice way of showing which characters you've built a stronger relationship with up to that point. Bring something like this on, Bioware!

The scene after Leandra's death was ok but, like you said, if you don't romance anyone, having Aveline by default come around is a bit forceful, I think. I can see the reasoning, she's the one Hawke knew the longest and they've been through a pretty traumatic experience together leaving Lothering but it would have been nice to have other relationships/friendships acknowledged, especially since this is a huge moment of weakness for Hawke. Would have been nice to see more characters show their support.

[GloriousDame]

Destiny_1989 wrote...

fiveforchaos wrote...

Does it have to be this way? Think of how wonderful it would be if anyone could visit Shepard in his/her cabin before the final battle depending on who s/he had formed the strongest bond with. And wouldn’t it be nice if the person to comfort an un-romanced Hawke after Leandra’s death was his/her best friend, rather than just Aveline by default

The scene after Leandra's death was ok but, like you said, if you don't romance anyone, having Aveline by default come around is a bit forceful, I think. I can see the reasoning, she's the one Hawke knew the longest and they've been through a pretty traumatic experience together leaving Lothering but it would have been nice to have other relationships/friendships acknowledged, especially since this is a huge moment of weakness for Hawke. Would have been nice to see more characters show their support.

All around, DA2 seemed to force friendships through just a few set scenes, instead of the whole "getting to know ___" that DAO had.  But I did appreciate the talk Aveline has with Hawke in her officer,  after Leandra's death; her story about her dad was very touching, and it's still one of my most cherished BioWare moments to date.

I agree with you, for being such a "tight" group" or at least so close to Hawke, it would have been better had more characters showed some support.

[spirosz]

I personally enjoy relationships more than "romances". When done well of course.

[mupp3tz]

Absolutely support. I would love to see someone who isn't romanced, yet has a high approval rating have unique content as well.

There are ways of metagaming where you can get high approval all across the board.. and you will tend to keep doing the same for every game. Which means the same relationship progression. The friendship and rivalry system added a bit of a nuance in that you could see different types of relationships.

Perhaps if they made it so that it's impossible to reach a max approval with more than 2-3 companions including the LI. I'm talking the very tip of the approval scale. You will still be in good relations (or not) with those you choose to be and there would be the usual character evolutions etc. that go with the story. However, the select companions you choose to reach the highest relationship level will open up special relationship content outside of romance. Truly a best friend rather than just another companion who thinks favorably of you.

I'm not sure how you could make it difficult or restrict to just a handful.. the only thing I can think of are certain gifts that give a high boost to approval; however, that's kind of too gamey. I don't know. Or a point where you must decide between which select companions to help out and you cannot help everyone with their small personal favors.. different from their companion quests, if that even is a thing in the new game. 

But I would really love the idea of extending a friendship with a certain non-LI companion outside of generic friendship scenes and progression you can see through all the games. This way, I would choose my best buds different from one play through to another.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:10 .

[werewoof]

i thought we sort of had things like this? or do you want a legit game function for it? but in both games you could become very close friends with your companions. sten even considers you kadan, which is a big deal for qunari. i do hope inquisition has stuff like that though, as much as i am a sucker for the romance, befriending my followers was an important part of the game too.

[Magdalena11]

Close friendships that aren't romances can't be bad.

[Chari]

Yeah
Though I must day that I loved pretty much all relationships between my Warden and the companions (except Morrigan, I don't know why but we always end up fighting).
I had a pal Oghren, kadan Sten, mother-like Wynne, BFF Shale, a close friend Lelianna, mabari Davhenan, loyal Zevran. I couldn't or didn't romance any of them yet when we had that last talk prior to the final battle and after it I literally cried because I have had never felt such close bonds before
I didn't have such moments in DA2, though Carver was pretty close.

I hope they can work on such an idea. The Best Friend(s).
And an asexual romance too (purely sexless, not no-sex-till-marriage Sebastian style)

[fiveforchaos]

tiktac wrote...

i thought we sort of had things like this? or do you want a legit game function for it? but in both games you could become very close friends with your companions. sten even considers you kadan, which is a big deal for qunari. i do hope inquisition has stuff like that though, as much as i am a sucker for the romance, befriending my followers was an important part of the game too.

Oh I love befriending my followers. But the thing is, so long as their friendship meter is high/at 100, it feels like I have 6 best friends, 6 people to whom I'm suddenly the most important person in the world to, who see me as the one they go to when they need support or a shoulder to lean on. The thing is though, sometimes when the roleplay experience gets really good, and the player gets sucked into the story, as is often the case with Bioware games, sometimes they need a shoulder to lean on as well. And it'd be nice if it were possible to establish a relationship with someone in particular, a relationship that made it clear that they would be your go to person in times of need, whether that "need" was the desire for good beer and equally good company, or a comforting presence in times of tragedy, and that you would be theirs in turn. 

Such a person/character isn't necessarily a romantic conquest, as the games thus far have seemed to assume. I've never been involved in a romantic relationship, but I have many very good friends, and among those friends I have one who I am closest to, one who'd be the one to visit me if I were in Shepard or Hawke's situation. It'd be nice to be able to form a similar relationship in game.

[Rixatrix]

Shazzie wrote...

fiveforchaos wrote...
Tl;dr: Would you be game for an optional “best friend”
mechanic in DA:I similar to the current romance mechanic? Yes or No? 

YES. Yes, yes yes, yesyes.

/signed