126 réponses à ce sujet

[ScarMK]

leaguer of one wrote...

He never shown an unease around mages he did not know. He only show unease if there's blood magic involved.

There's the mage he speaks to at Ostagar, first time meeting Morrigan and first time meeting the mage warden.  After that, I think they sorta just dropped it.

Wulfram wrote...

He makes a comment about Morrigan and Flemeth being Apostates to Duncan right at the start.

I thought I was forgetting one.  Thank you Wulfram.

Modifié par ScarMK, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:16 .

[Mr.House]

leaguer of one wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

That's why you harden him.

That implies Alistair being hardened or not is actually accounted for.

You do know that Alistar, Harden or not, sides with the mages.

He won't be for long if the main mage faction has but loads of blood mages and supprots blood magic. Unless Bioware decides to destroy Alistair even more and spit on anything established, which at that point you might as well make a whole new character.

You do know that mages have factions and don't all agree. Just like how the templars have the red templars, the mages would have there own faction of extemist of there own.

You assume mages will be split between normal mages and blood mages, Asunders end spins a diffrent outlook. If Bioware wants to put this issue to rest, then show the blood mage faction next causing terror like the Red Templars. Even then AListair should think of Ferelden first, not mages. He should stay neutral at least for a bit before even thinking of joining a side.

[leaguer of one]

Mr.House wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Neither do I.

Its a bit of a retcon, and I'd prefer they just kept Goldana's mother as being Alistair's. If Fiona was Alistair's mother, what was the whole point of the quest where you meet Alistair's 'family?'

That all being said as far as I'm concerned Goldana's mother being Alistair's mother is still canon. The way I see it, there are varying degrees of canon just like with the Star Wars universe. With Dragon Age the games would be the highest level of canon, followed by books or comics, and lastly by dev statements made on Twitter or interviews. Since the games implied that Goldana's mother gave birth to Alistair, I see that as still being canon until another Dragon Age game says otherwise.

It not a retcon. It new info that was previously unknown. A retcon ignores and does not take account of perious info in it's change.

Until stated in-game, Alistair is the son of a maid, you can argue all you want, in the end. Game trumps book when it comes to a video game.

Execpt much of the books have been Carried to the game. The architect first showed up in the books and so did Utha and they both later show up in DA:A.  That means the events of the calling happened.

Funyy thing aobut that, Architect hardly ever apeaks about the events from the book at all, in fact his new plan is nott he same plan he had in the book. While true a character from the book is in the game, the fact that this character hardly even mentions those events and now has much diffrent motives does not help your case.

I hope it's outright revelaed Fiona is not AListairs mother to at last put this fan wish dream in the casket.

Why would he? Do talk with stanger with past events those stranger were never involved in? Added, in the book it's stated he need help with pople form the surface for it to work. It matter not if they don't metion the even of the book. The fact that they're characters form the book means the events happen.

[Mr.House]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Inqusition could make hints at it. But I agree, I don't see why it should be in this game unless Alistair and Fiona happens to be heavily involved in the same chunk of the story.

And then Fiona reveals Alistair has another sister

[Mr.House]

Events happening does not mean Fiona is Alistairs mother when Alistairs own story line in the game disapproves of it. Alistair ismply has naother siblnig, why peopel can't grasp this I wll never get.

Modifié par Mr.House, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:19 .

[Han Shot First]

leaguer of one wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Neither do I.

Its a bit of a retcon, and I'd prefer they just kept Goldana's mother as being Alistair's. If Fiona was Alistair's mother, what was the whole point of the quest where you meet Alistair's 'family?'

That all being said as far as I'm concerned Goldana's mother being Alistair's mother is still canon. The way I see it, there are varying degrees of canon just like with the Star Wars universe. With Dragon Age the games would be the highest level of canon, followed by books or comics, and lastly by dev statements made on Twitter or interviews. Since the games implied that Goldana's mother gave birth to Alistair, I see that as still being canon until another Dragon Age game says otherwise.

It not a retcon. It new info that was previously unknown. A retcon ignores and does not take account of perious info in it's change.

Until stated in-game, Alistair is the son of a maid, you can argue all you want, in the end. Game trumps book when it comes to a video game.

Execpt much of the books have been Carried to the game. The architect first showed up in the books and so did Utha and they both later show up in DA:A.  That means the events of the calling happened.

I didn't say the events of the Calling aren't canon. I said they are a lower form of canon than the games. In other words, events in the books are canon *unless* they are contradicted by something in the games, in which case the event in the game remains canon since it has a higher level of canonicity.

Its a system that has been used for other fictional universes that span multiple forms of media, like Star Wars. With Star Wars the films are a higher level of canon than the books.

Since DA:O implies that Goldana's mother gave birth to Alistair, that is still canon as far as I'm concerned. Or at least it is until DA:I or some other Dragon Age game has a character who announce that Alistair was Fiona's son.

[leaguer of one]

Mr.House wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

That's why you harden him.

That implies Alistair being hardened or not is actually accounted for.

You do know that Alistar, Harden or not, sides with the mages.

He won't be for long if the main mage faction has but loads of blood mages and supprots blood magic. Unless Bioware decides to destroy Alistair even more and spit on anything established, which at that point you might as well make a whole new character.

You do know that mages have factions and don't all agree. Just like how the templars have the red templars, the mages would have there own faction of extemist of there own.

You assume mages will be split between normal mages and blood mages, Asunders end spins a diffrent outlook. If Bioware wants to put this issue to rest, then show the blood mage faction next causing terror like the Red Templars. Even then AListair should think of Ferelden first, not mages. He should stay neutral at least for a bit before even thinking of joining a side.

Mages are too much of a boon militarily and political to ignore. The issue is the war, not the mages. There is a way to give support to mage with out them going to war. That is open the borders to them who are not blood mages. Heck, he can even support the inquistor as well.

[Mr.House]

Han Shot First wrote...
I didn't say the events of the Calling aren't canon. I said they are a lower form of canon than the games. In other words, events in the books are canon *unless* they are contradicted by something in the games, in which case the event in the game remains canon since it has a higher level of canonicity.

Its a system that has been used for other fictional universes that span multiple forms of media, like Star Wars. With Star Wars the films are a higher level of canon than the books.

Since DA:O implies that Goldana's mother gave birth to Alistair, that is still canon as far as I'm concerned. Or at least it is until DA:I or some other Dragon Age game has a character who announce that Alistair was Fiona's son.

+1

Modifié par Mr.House, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:21 .

[leaguer of one]

Han Shot First wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Neither do I.

Its a bit of a retcon, and I'd prefer they just kept Goldana's mother as being Alistair's. If Fiona was Alistair's mother, what was the whole point of the quest where you meet Alistair's 'family?'

That all being said as far as I'm concerned Goldana's mother being Alistair's mother is still canon. The way I see it, there are varying degrees of canon just like with the Star Wars universe. With Dragon Age the games would be the highest level of canon, followed by books or comics, and lastly by dev statements made on Twitter or interviews. Since the games implied that Goldana's mother gave birth to Alistair, I see that as still being canon until another Dragon Age game says otherwise.

It not a retcon. It new info that was previously unknown. A retcon ignores and does not take account of perious info in it's change.

Until stated in-game, Alistair is the son of a maid, you can argue all you want, in the end. Game trumps book when it comes to a video game.

Execpt much of the books have been Carried to the game. The architect first showed up in the books and so did Utha and they both later show up in DA:A.  That means the events of the calling happened.

I didn't say the events of the Calling aren't canon. I said they are a lower form of canon than the games. In other words, events in the books are canon *unless* they are contradicted by something in the games, in which case the event in the game remains canon since it has a higher level of canonicity.

Its a system that has been used for other fictional universes that span multiple forms of media, like Star Wars. With Star Wars the films are a higher level of canon than the books.

Since DA:O implies that Goldana's mother gave birth to Alistair, that is still canon as far as I'm concerned. Or at least it is until DA:I or some other Dragon Age game has a character who announce that Alistair was Fiona's son.

There is nothing in the games that contridicts the books so bring this up has no point.  It's a case of reading between the line and following the smoke. It's easy to see that Goldana being Alisatars mother is a lie.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:23 .

[Daerog]

The devs have constantly said that in game characters, and even the CODEX ENTRIES are subject to mistakes. This is done on purpose, so that we are exposed to the info that the people of that world are exposed to, rather than the complete truth of the matter. This is why they always have the codex entries presented like they were written by an in-game scholar.
As I've said before, I would prefer there to be a third Theirin kid, it would make things simpler. Since Fiona is alive (which makes Maric sound odd, but she is a mage...) and wouldn't make Loghain sound so strange either when talking about Rowan as if she was alive when Alistair was born, sorta...


 start around 13:33 for what Loghain says about Alistair.

However, with the timeline changes, that just shows that dev quotes do seem to overwrite anything that could be inferred from the games. However, I don't see how this puts Cailan's title as heir in question if he was Rowan's kid and Rowan supposedly being dead before Alistair's birth... and how does this make her seem like a concubine if she is dead and Maric had another lover? It's not like he is cheating on Rowan, she's dead.... right?

Edit: I guess Loghain was just completely bonkers, senile, drunk, or really had no idea what was going on in Maric's life.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:24 .

[Taleroth]

Mr.House wrote...

Events happening does not mean Fiona is Alistairs mother when Alistairs own story line in the game disapproves of it.

Alistair's story doesn't disprove anything. Fiona said to have him be told his mother was a dead human. And Goldana was originally told that her brother died with her mother.

But no, apparently this girl who was but a child herself clearly knows better.

Modifié par Taleroth, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:24 .

[Mr.House]

Play Alistairs questline again, Goldana outright says her mother gave birth to a boy that was at Redcliffe and she knew it was Alistair but was bribed. That is far more evidence then Fiona being the mother. So until it is proven, not implied Fiona is not his mother it is fan wish fulfillment.

[Taleroth]

Mr.House wrote...

Play Alistairs questline again, Goldana outright says her mother gave birth to a boy that was at Redcliffe and she knew it was Alistair but was bribed. That is far more evidence then Fiona being the mother. So until it is proven, not implied Fiona is not his mother it is fan wish fulfillment.

And Loghain says that he had Alistair sent away to be taken in by Eamon.

If he was born in Eamon's house, why would he be sent away to Eamon's house? What Goldanna "knows" is wrong.

Modifié par Taleroth, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:26 .

[Han Shot First]

leaguer of one wrote...

There is nothing in the games that contridicts the books so bring this up has not point.

Yes there is.

Or at least there is if we accept that the book was impying that Fiona was Alistair's mother. If we accept that was the author's intent in the book, then it does contract the game. The game had Goldana flat out state that her mother had an affair with King Maric and gave birth to Alistair.

That contradiction is then resolved by DA:O being a higher level of canon than The Calling. Hence, Alistair's mother being a human made is still canon until another Dragon Age game states that his mother was Fiona.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:27 .

[dragondreamer]

Alistair was fascinated by magic and sympathetic towards mages. I don't think Fiona would change his viewpoint too dramatically from where it already was. The only reason he doesn't free the Fereldan Circles if the Warden asks for that boon/or if Hawke asks him about it, is because he doesn't have the power to do it. But Alistair isn't king in all playthroughs (like my canon), so it's mostly a personal matter. I'd like him to finally know the truth.

[leaguer of one]

Mr.House wrote...

Play Alistairs questline again, Goldana outright says her mother gave birth to a boy that was at Redcliffe and she knew it was Alistair but was bribed. That is far more evidence then Fiona being the mother. So until it is proven, not implied Fiona is not his mother it is fan wish fulfillment.

She also said that she never saw the baby. She was not bribed, she was turn away and had money throw at her. Added, Fiona told Maric to tell the baby she was dead and human.

[DarthLaxian]

Mr.House wrote...

If Fiona is in DAO, I hope we can kill her, same with Adrian. Also I hope Alistair if he chooses a faction chooses it on his beliefs, not because of his mommy.

you are a radical-templar-zealot then?

i mean, why would you want to kill the mages otherwise? (they only want a basic-human-right for themselves: freedom! - denying them that is like putting black peaple back into shackles, it is racism and oppression and IMHO totally un-acceptable!)

and no, i don't want to kill Fiona - i would love to have her on my party (she is such an interesting character IMHO!) more then anything (hell, i would toss out any of the confirmed characters for her (i hope she is an un-confirmed companion though - also hopes are slim, as she probably is to important to join you))

greetings LAX

[leaguer of one]

Han Shot First wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

There is nothing in the games that contridicts the books so bring this up has not point.

Yes there is.

Or at least there is if we accept that the book was impying that Fiona was Alistair's mother. If we accept that was the author's intent in the book, then it does contract the game. The game implicitly stated that Goldana's mother had an affair with King Maric and gave birth to Alistair.

That contradiction is then resolved by DA:O being a higher level of canon than The Calling. Hence, Alistair's mother being a human made is still canon until another Dragon Age game states that his mother was Fiona.

That's not a contradiction. That's a clear cover up. In fact Fiona asked Maric to do a cover up of Alistars Parantage. The maid dies giving birth and they used that to cover up who Alistar's mother is.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:33 .

[leaguer of one]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

The devs have constantly said that in game characters, and even the CODEX ENTRIES are subject to mistakes. This is done on purpose, so that we are exposed to the info that the people of that world are exposed to, rather than the complete truth of the matter. This is why they always have the codex entries presented like they were written by an in-game scholar.
As I've said before, I would prefer there to be a third Theirin kid, it would make things simpler. Since Fiona is alive (which makes Maric sound odd, but she is a mage...) and wouldn't make Loghain sound so strange either when talking about Rowan as if she was alive when Alistair was born, sorta...


 start around 13:33 for what Loghain says about Alistair.

However, with the timeline changes, that just shows that dev quotes do seem to overwrite anything that could be inferred from the games. However, I don't see how this puts Cailan's title as heir in question if he was Rowan's kid and Rowan supposedly being dead before Alistair's birth... and how does this make her seem like a concubine if she is dead and Maric had another lover? It's not like he is cheating on Rowan, she's dead.... right?

Edit: I guess Loghain was just completely bonkers, senile, drunk, or really had no idea what was going on in Maric's life.

Funny how Rowan was dead before Alistar was born.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:32 .

[Mr.House]

DarthLaxian wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

If Fiona is in DAO, I hope we can kill her, same with Adrian. Also I hope Alistair if he chooses a faction chooses it on his beliefs, not because of his mommy.

you are a radical-templar-zealot then?

i mean, why would you want to kill the mages otherwise? (they only want a basic-human-right for themselves: freedom! - denying them that is like putting black peaple back into shackles, it is racism and oppression and IMHO totally un-acceptable!)

and no, i don't want to kill Fiona - i would love to have her on my party (she is such an interesting character IMHO!) more then anything (hell, i would toss out any of the confirmed characters for her (i hope she is an un-confirmed companion though - also hopes are slim, as she probably is to important to join you))

greetings LAX

Wanting to kill Fiona and Adrian=killing all mages. Also I'm not racist so good going on assumption fail. Though I forgot  this is the bsn, supporting a form of system that looks after mages to ensure they don't become a threat to non-magic users makes you a racist and you should feel bad.

[AresKeith]

DarthLaxian wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

If Fiona is in DAO, I hope we can kill her, same with Adrian. Also I hope Alistair if he chooses a faction chooses it on his beliefs, not because of his mommy.

you are a radical-templar-zealot then?

i mean, why would you want to kill the mages otherwise? (they only want a basic-human-right for themselves: freedom! - denying them that is like putting black peaple back into shackles, it is racism and oppression and IMHO totally un-acceptable!)

and no, i don't want to kill Fiona - i would love to have her on my party (she is such an interesting character IMHO!) more then anything (hell, i would toss out any of the confirmed characters for her (i hope she is an un-confirmed companion though - also hopes are slim, as she probably is to important to join you))

greetings LAX

How is wanting to kill Mage extremists make someone a radical templar zealot?

[Han Shot First]

leaguer of one wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

There is nothing in the games that contridicts the books so bring this up has not point.

Yes there is.

Or at least there is if we accept that the book was impying that Fiona was Alistair's mother. If we accept that was the author's intent in the book, then it does contract the game. The game implicitly stated that Goldana's mother had an affair with King Maric and gave birth to Alistair.

That contradiction is then resolved by DA:O being a higher level of canon than The Calling. Hence, Alistair's mother being a human made is still canon until another Dragon Age game states that his mother was Fiona.

That's not a contradiction. That a clear cover up. In fact Fiona asked Maric to do a cover up of Alistars Parantage. The maid dies giving birth and they used that to cover up who Alistar's mother is.

It is a contradiction because there is no suggestion of a cover up yet in games. As far as I'm concerned the games are a higher degree of canon. No doubt that will be introduced if Fiona is ever confirmed as being Alistair's mother in the games as the contradiction will have to be explained away, but that has yet to happen.

As of right now the book and the DA:O are not in agreement on Alistair's parentage, at least if we accept that the book was implying that Fiona was Alistair's mother.

[Mr.House]

AresKeith wrote...

DarthLaxian wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

If Fiona is in DAO, I hope we can kill her, same with Adrian. Also I hope Alistair if he chooses a faction chooses it on his beliefs, not because of his mommy.

you are a radical-templar-zealot then?

i mean, why would you want to kill the mages otherwise? (they only want a basic-human-right for themselves: freedom! - denying them that is like putting black peaple back into shackles, it is racism and oppression and IMHO totally un-acceptable!)

and no, i don't want to kill Fiona - i would love to have her on my party (she is such an interesting character IMHO!) more then anything (hell, i would toss out any of the confirmed characters for her (i hope she is an un-confirmed companion though - also hopes are slim, as she probably is to important to join you))

greetings LAX

How is wanting to kill Mage extremists make someone a radical templar zealot?

Bsn logic. It's fine for Fiona and Adrian to be extremists and in Adrians case, betray her own friend which resulted in his mother dying because she knew that would cause him to vote for for seperation which would mean all out war.

[Knight of Dane]

Mr.House wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

Inqusition could make hints at it. But I agree, I don't see why it should be in this game unless Alistair and Fiona happens to be heavily involved in the same chunk of the story.

And then Fiona reveals Alistair has another sister

I thought the kid was a boy in the Calling?

[Patchwork]

I take game canon over book/comic canon in a video game but at this point I just want an answer; is Alistair the son of Maric and a maid or isn't he?