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[DarthLaxian]

Wulfram wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

He never shown an unease around mages he did not know. He only show unease if there's blood magic involved.

He makes a comment about Morrigan and Flemeth being Apostates to Duncan right at the start.

that's only because the are an unknown in his AO (Area of Operation) - not because he wants to hunt them down IMHO.

as for blood-magic:

even there it is not outright hate - he doesn't like it much and is unsettled by it (probably because it makes his Templar-Abilities rather useless - while most other mages would be in grave danger when encountering him because he can shut them down!)...hell, he never questioned my PC-Blood-Mages about it (neither male nor female ones - even if he was romanced!) and so i take it as canon that he does not hate blood-mages (he might be un-easy in their proximity but not frightened or incensed by hate and rage - if anything, he is carefull (!) and that's ok IMHO (i would be too in his shoes!))

greetings LAX

[Amirit]

I was always skeptical about possibility for Alistair to be Fiona's son. Too many problems.

1. Goldanna. How could Duncan know that there is a maiden ready to give a birth and dye together with the baby (which would work as a cover for Alistair's real parent)? Did Duncan just run around with a baby on his hand desperately looking for such option?

2. Redcliff. Seriously, a Greywarden comes in with a baby on his hands and _nobody_ saw him? Not a single servant? More that this, he left without a baby and still no one had a clue? The whole castle full of blind servants? Otherwise someone would tell Alistair something is wrong here.

3. Arl Eamon. Should he even suspect a drop of elven blood he would never suggest Alistair a throne. Arl Eamon tuned his own son to the Circle - he is obeying low to the latter. No way he would support a half-elf on the throne.

I can go one but the point is - there are too many things against it. Sure, those who want to believe in elven Alistair do not need any evidence. And sure if Gaider decide to canon it in DAI he would not even need to explain anything (take Anders as a proof of unrestricted writers imagination). I personally just curious about resolution of that mystery too.

(Personal dream - we have a companion who tuns out to be Fiona's son and have to help him to find his mother (as a companion personal quest))

[OLDIRTYBARON]

Anders was Fiona's child. Boom. Problem solved.

Man, Anders being Fiona's kids solves a lot of issues with everything. From Alistair's double history and the illogical lies and cover ups all the way to Anders looking remarkably similar to Cailan and Alistair (not to mention having virtually the same snarky personality as King Maric). That's what I'm going with until I can scrub the Calling from my memory.

[Daerog]

Han Shot First wrote...

It is a contradiction because there is no suggestion of a cover up yet in games. As far as I'm concerned the games are a higher degree of canon. No doubt that will be introduced if Fiona is ever confirmed as being Alistair's mother in the games as the contradiction will have to be explained away, but that has yet to happen.

As of right now the book and the DA:O are not in agreement on Alistair's parentage, at least if we accept that the book was implying that Fiona was Alistair's mother.

Sure, but all the info present in the games are subject to mistakes, even Alistair could have been mistaken, Loghain could have been confused, and Goldanna a compulsive liar.

The highest degree of canon are dev quotes, followed by the games, followed by the books (although the World of Thedas did correct some timelines, and dev quotes corrected the time line again...) and comics, followed by the RPG, followed by fan fic.

[Mr.House]

OLDIRTYBARON wrote...

Anders was Fiona's child. Boom. Problem solved.

Man, Anders being Fiona's kids solves a lot of issues with everything. From Alistair's double history and the illogical lies and cover ups all the way to Anders looking remarkably similar to Cailan and Alistair (not to mention having virtually the same snarky personality as King Maric). That's what I'm going with until I can scrub the Calling from my memory.

So Hawke killed Fiona's child? OH PLEASE LET THIS BE tHE TRUTH

[leaguer of one]

Han Shot First wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

There is nothing in the games that contridicts the books so bring this up has not point.

Yes there is.

Or at least there is if we accept that the book was impying that Fiona was Alistair's mother. If we accept that was the author's intent in the book, then it does contract the game. The game implicitly stated that Goldana's mother had an affair with King Maric and gave birth to Alistair.

That contradiction is then resolved by DA:O being a higher level of canon than The Calling. Hence, Alistair's mother being a human made is still canon until another Dragon Age game states that his mother was Fiona.

That's not a contradiction. That a clear cover up. In fact Fiona asked Maric to do a cover up of Alistars Parantage. The maid dies giving birth and they used that to cover up who Alistar's mother is.

It is a contradiction because there is no suggestion of a cover up yet in games. As far as I'm concerned the games are a higher degree of canon. No doubt that will be introduced if Fiona is ever confirmed as being Alistair's mother in the games as the contradiction will have to be explained away, but that has yet to happen.

As of right now the book and the DA:O are not in agreement on Alistair's parentage, at least if we accept that the book was implying that Fiona was Alistair's mother.

That's not a contridiction because it's not in the first game. This is like saying self aware darkspawn is a contradiction because they were not in the first game. This is a long term story line. In fact, even in the first game we don't have solid proof Alistar is that maid child being that the person who say so was not even there at his birth.
The fact Fiona ask Maric to cover up her babies birth supports that fact that Alistars birth from a maid is a lie. It's a cover up. A cover up very few people know about.

[leaguer of one]

OLDIRTYBARON wrote...

Anders was Fiona's child. Boom. Problem solved.

Man, Anders being Fiona's kids solves a lot of issues with everything. From Alistair's double history and the illogical lies and cover ups all the way to Anders looking remarkably similar to Cailan and Alistair (not to mention having virtually the same snarky personality as King Maric). That's what I'm going with until I can scrub the Calling from my memory.

Except Ander's was not born in the circle and he knows who his mother really is.

[Mr.House]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

It is a contradiction because there is no suggestion of a cover up yet in games. As far as I'm concerned the games are a higher degree of canon. No doubt that will be introduced if Fiona is ever confirmed as being Alistair's mother in the games as the contradiction will have to be explained away, but that has yet to happen.

As of right now the book and the DA:O are not in agreement on Alistair's parentage, at least if we accept that the book was implying that Fiona was Alistair's mother.

Sure, but all the info present in the games are subject to mistakes, even Alistair could have been mistaken, Loghain could have been confused, and Goldanna a compulsive liar.

The highest degree of canon are dev quotes, followed by the games, followed by the books (although the World of Thedas did correct some timelines, and dev quotes corrected the time line again...) and comics, followed by the RPG, followed by fan fic.

Gaider refuses to answer the questipon, so we go to games. Games don't match the book. There's the problem. If DAi does comfrim Fiona is his mother then that is canon(I would find it very annoying but oh well)

[Taleroth]

OLDIRTYBARON wrote...

Anders was Fiona's child. Boom. Problem solved.

Man, Anders being Fiona's kids solves a lot of issues with everything. From Alistair's double history and the illogical lies and cover ups all the way to Anders looking remarkably similar to Cailan and Alistair (not to mention having virtually the same snarky personality as King Maric). That's what I'm going with until I can scrub the Calling from my memory.

Better yet, Anders is Goldana's half-brother.

His father is Arl Eamon.

Modifié par Taleroth, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:45 .

[leaguer of one]

Mr.House wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

DarthLaxian wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

If Fiona is in DAO, I hope we can kill her, same with Adrian. Also I hope Alistair if he chooses a faction chooses it on his beliefs, not because of his mommy.

you are a radical-templar-zealot then?

i mean, why would you want to kill the mages otherwise? (they only want a basic-human-right for themselves: freedom! - denying them that is like putting black peaple back into shackles, it is racism and oppression and IMHO totally un-acceptable!)

and no, i don't want to kill Fiona - i would love to have her on my party (she is such an interesting character IMHO!) more then anything (hell, i would toss out any of the confirmed characters for her (i hope she is an un-confirmed companion though - also hopes are slim, as she probably is to important to join you))

greetings LAX

How is wanting to kill Mage extremists make someone a radical templar zealot?

Bsn logic. It's fine for Fiona and Adrian to be extremists and in Adrians case, betray her own friend which resulted in his mother dying because she knew that would cause him to vote for for seperation which would mean all out war.

Being that she is not an Extremist.

[Mr.House]

leaguer of one wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

DarthLaxian wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

If Fiona is in DAO, I hope we can kill her, same with Adrian. Also I hope Alistair if he chooses a faction chooses it on his beliefs, not because of his mommy.

you are a radical-templar-zealot then?

i mean, why would you want to kill the mages otherwise? (they only want a basic-human-right for themselves: freedom! - denying them that is like putting black peaple back into shackles, it is racism and oppression and IMHO totally un-acceptable!)

and no, i don't want to kill Fiona - i would love to have her on my party (she is such an interesting character IMHO!) more then anything (hell, i would toss out any of the confirmed characters for her (i hope she is an un-confirmed companion though - also hopes are slim, as she probably is to important to join you))

greetings LAX

How is wanting to kill Mage extremists make someone a radical templar zealot?

Bsn logic. It's fine for Fiona and Adrian to be extremists and in Adrians case, betray her own friend which resulted in his mother dying because she knew that would cause him to vote for for seperation which would mean all out war.

Being that she is not an Extremist.

Yes she is, read Asunder.

[TK514]

Mr.House wrote...

OLDIRTYBARON wrote...

Anders was Fiona's child. Boom. Problem solved.

Man, Anders being Fiona's kids solves a lot of issues with everything. From Alistair's double history and the illogical lies and cover ups all the way to Anders looking remarkably similar to Cailan and Alistair (not to mention having virtually the same snarky personality as King Maric). That's what I'm going with until I can scrub the Calling from my memory.

So Hawke killed Fiona's child? OH PLEASE LET THIS BE tHE TRUTH

I would find this most agreeable.

Modifié par TK514, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:47 .

[leaguer of one]

Mr.House wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

It is a contradiction because there is no suggestion of a cover up yet in games. As far as I'm concerned the games are a higher degree of canon. No doubt that will be introduced if Fiona is ever confirmed as being Alistair's mother in the games as the contradiction will have to be explained away, but that has yet to happen.

As of right now the book and the DA:O are not in agreement on Alistair's parentage, at least if we accept that the book was implying that Fiona was Alistair's mother.

Sure, but all the info present in the games are subject to mistakes, even Alistair could have been mistaken, Loghain could have been confused, and Goldanna a compulsive liar.

The highest degree of canon are dev quotes, followed by the games, followed by the books (although the World of Thedas did correct some timelines, and dev quotes corrected the time line again...) and comics, followed by the RPG, followed by fan fic.

Gaider refuses to answer the questipon, so we go to games. Games don't match the book. There's the problem. If DAi does comfrim Fiona is his mother then that is canon(I would find it very annoying but oh well)

Gaider refuse to answer the question because it would spoil the story he is trying to tell. If it were false he would straight up tell us. Remember he did  staight out go out of his way to make sure that  people understood that Alistar's birth year matches up with the events of the call, even going so for as to wonder of thedus correct it. Why would he go that far if it was not true.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:51 .

[Daerog]

Fiona not an extremist, fine. She is a warmonger, though (same as Anders, I'm liking the connection). She was constantly bringing up the vote to separate with no negotiation and not accepting other suggestions, just complete split and she has to know that such a radical transition will not be taken kindly and will result in many, many deaths.

My mage inquisitor is going to hate Fiona. My warrior may sympathize, but he/she doesn't know the circle as well as my mage will.

[leaguer of one]

Mr.House wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

DarthLaxian wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

If Fiona is in DAO, I hope we can kill her, same with Adrian. Also I hope Alistair if he chooses a faction chooses it on his beliefs, not because of his mommy.

you are a radical-templar-zealot then?

i mean, why would you want to kill the mages otherwise? (they only want a basic-human-right for themselves: freedom! - denying them that is like putting black peaple back into shackles, it is racism and oppression and IMHO totally un-acceptable!)

and no, i don't want to kill Fiona - i would love to have her on my party (she is such an interesting character IMHO!) more then anything (hell, i would toss out any of the confirmed characters for her (i hope she is an un-confirmed companion though - also hopes are slim, as she probably is to important to join you))

greetings LAX

How is wanting to kill Mage extremists make someone a radical templar zealot?

Bsn logic. It's fine for Fiona and Adrian to be extremists and in Adrians case, betray her own friend which resulted in his mother dying because she knew that would cause him to vote for for seperation which would mean all out war.

Being that she is not an Extremist.

Yes she is, read Asunder.

Wanting to seperate the cirlce from the chantry does not make one an extremist.  Killing a mage who was tranquil and framing it on a friend and former lover just to start a war is an example of an extremist.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 11 septembre 2013 - 04:55 .

[Patchwork]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

It is a contradiction because there is no suggestion of a cover up yet in games. As far as I'm concerned the games are a higher degree of canon. No doubt that will be introduced if Fiona is ever confirmed as being Alistair's mother in the games as the contradiction will have to be explained away, but that has yet to happen.

As of right now the book and the DA:O are not in agreement on Alistair's parentage, at least if we accept that the book was implying that Fiona was Alistair's mother.

Sure, but all the info present in the games are subject to mistakes, even Alistair could have been mistaken, Loghain could have been confused, and Goldanna a compulsive liar.

The highest degree of canon are dev quotes, followed by the games, followed by the books (although the World of Thedas did correct some timelines, and dev quotes corrected the time line again...) and comics, followed by the RPG, followed by fan fic.

Dev quotes are the highiest form of canon? Something only maybe 10% of their audience sees rather than a product the company actually sells?

[Mr.House]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Fiona not an extremist, fine. She is a warmonger, though (same as Anders, I'm liking the connection). She was constantly bringing up the vote to separate with no negotiation and not accepting other suggestions, just complete split and she has to know that such a radical transition will not be taken kindly and will result in many, many deaths.

My mage inquisitor is going to hate Fiona. My warrior may sympathize, but he/she doesn't know the circle as well as my mage will.

Anders is also a extremist, along with being a terrorist. So if Fiona isl ike him... Well good going, oyu just called her an extremist and terrorist.

[leaguer of one]

Ser Bard wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

It is a contradiction because there is no suggestion of a cover up yet in games. As far as I'm concerned the games are a higher degree of canon. No doubt that will be introduced if Fiona is ever confirmed as being Alistair's mother in the games as the contradiction will have to be explained away, but that has yet to happen.

As of right now the book and the DA:O are not in agreement on Alistair's parentage, at least if we accept that the book was implying that Fiona was Alistair's mother.

Sure, but all the info present in the games are subject to mistakes, even Alistair could have been mistaken, Loghain could have been confused, and Goldanna a compulsive liar.

The highest degree of canon are dev quotes, followed by the games, followed by the books (although the World of Thedas did correct some timelines, and dev quotes corrected the time line again...) and comics, followed by the RPG, followed by fan fic.

Dev quotes are the highiest form of canon? Something only maybe 10% of their audience sees rather than a product the company actually sells?

The fact that the year of Alistar's birth line up with the event of the call proves that Dev quotes are the highiest form of canon.

[ScarMK]

Ser Bard wrote...


Dev quotes are the highiest form of canon? Something only maybe 10% of their audience sees rather than a product the company actually sells?

If they don't bother seeking it out in the first place, I don't think they really cared for the lore in the first place.  They probably just see it as another game to play.

[tehprincessJ]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

If Fiona is an elf(I wouldn't know, since I haven't read the books or the comics), she cannot be Alistair's mother. Alistair isn't half-elf.

Says who? Elves who have children with humans always have human children. Always. Feynriel? There isn't supposed to be a Feynriel.

As to the original post: If Fiona cared so much about her baby's fate, she wouldn't have abandoned him, now would she? Honestly, though, I get what she was trying to do, but since she wasn't there to make sure it happens, what happens happens instead.
I love Alistair to pieces and I think it's awesome to consider his mother an elven mage Warden. Much more romantic than a castle servant. Also? Anything that can invalidate his relationship to Goldanna is a big plus.

And lastly, if Alistair isn't the baby in question, that means there's another Theirin out there somewhere. And that's a bigger problem to deal with than any conflict between what happened in 'The Calling' and what we're told in 'Origins'.

[leaguer of one]

Mr.House wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Fiona not an extremist, fine. She is a warmonger, though (same as Anders, I'm liking the connection). She was constantly bringing up the vote to separate with no negotiation and not accepting other suggestions, just complete split and she has to know that such a radical transition will not be taken kindly and will result in many, many deaths.

My mage inquisitor is going to hate Fiona. My warrior may sympathize, but he/she doesn't know the circle as well as my mage will.

Anders is also a extremist, along with being a terrorist. So if Fiona isl ike him... Well good going, oyu just called her an extremist and terrorist.

Ander's is an extremest because he is will to get things going to the point of blows. Fiona want to vote on it and debate it. She is not an extremist.

[Daerog]

Ser Bard wrote...


Dev quotes are the highiest form of canon? Something only maybe 10% of their audience sees rather than a product the company actually sells?

Yes, because nothing corrects those. If Gaider comes on and posts something (without sarcasm...) then that is how it is. The game cannot correct the writers, especially the lead writer.

Dev quotes can correct what is inferred by games though, such as Alistair and the whole lyrium thing for Templars.

[TK514]

leaguer of one wrote...

Except Ander's was not born in the circle and he knows who his mother really is.

So does Alistair.  A maid at Redcliffe, and he has a sister named Goldanna.

[Mr.House]

ScarMK wrote...

Ser Bard wrote...


Dev quotes are the highiest form of canon? Something only maybe 10% of their audience sees rather than a product the company actually sells?

If they don't bother seeking it out in the first place, I don't think they really cared for the lore in the first place.  They probably just see it as another game to play.

Not everyone has time to go to a forum you know. To even think that to really care for the lore is to be on the forum or follow the devs is just silly.

[Daerog]

Mr.House wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

Ser Bard wrote...


Dev quotes are the highiest form of canon? Something only maybe 10% of their audience sees rather than a product the company actually sells?

If they don't bother seeking it out in the first place, I don't think they really cared for the lore in the first place.  They probably just see it as another game to play.

Not everyone has time to go to a forum you know. To even think that to really care for the lore is to be on the forum or follow the devs is just silly.

Ya, if people care about the lore, just visit the Wikia. Lot faster to find lore than visiting the forums, and usually gets updated pretty fast.