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[General TSAR]

Indoctrination.

[naes1984]

Why would they "forgive" the Reapers? They wouldn't. Plus, they have no choice whether or not to be magically changed into unholy abominations of flesh and machine. The real question is: Would they ever forgive Shepherd for violating their bodies in such fundamental ways? I wouldn't forgive Shepherd for doing that. 

Modifié par naes1984, 12 septembre 2013 - 01:13 .

[jontepwn]

AlexMBrennan wrote...
Well, presumably being connected to those Reapers gave them the perspective to not want revenge, just like it gave that soldier in the synthesis cinematic the perspective to not recover his weapon whilst locked in combat.

Further, with synthesis everyone will share the Reaper's realisation about the threat posed by the tech singularity, and will thus agree that the cycles were necessary in the absence of a better solution.

So brainwashing then? Millions of years/cycles of the worst consecutive genocide in galactic history and all is forgiven? The Reapers were actually the good guys all along?

That's stupid. 

[naes1984]

Modifié par naes1984, 12 septembre 2013 - 01:13 .

[Mathias]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

For the same reason the quarians forgive the geth for years of slaughter (after you broker peace on Rannoch).


Games move time forward unrealistically fast and idealize certain things. Still, the precedent was set.

Those are different circumstances. The Geth had proven that they truly wanted peace and that it was the Quarians who drew first blood. Even when the Geth took over Rannoch, they didn't go hunting down the remaining Quarians.

Unlike some other race of Machine Gods that have been obliterating races for thousands of years.

[Mathias]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Well, presumably being connected to those Reapers gave them the perspective to not want revenge, just like it gave that soldier in the synthesis cinematic the perspective to not recover his weapon whilst locked in combat.

Further, with synthesis everyone will share the Reaper's realisation about the threat posed by the tech singularity, and will thus agree that the cycles were necessary in the absence of a better solution.

Yeah I'm calling BS on that. I'm going to assume here that nobody on this board has ever simultanously lost family member(s) as well as their home, everything they've ever known and loved (at least I hope not). But I think I can make a pretty good guess that it would feel overwhelmingly awful, and just gaining the perspective from the thing that took all that stuff away from you would not make those feelings go away.

I guess I could roll with it if the Reapers aided in rebuilding the galaxy and then left into Dark Space to find their own life, as an attempt at redemption for everything they've done. But it's implied that the Reapers coexisted with Organics, which is just stupid imo and makes for boring storytelling.

Wtf are Reapers gonna be doing when they're not rebuilding the Galaxy? What are they good for? They were designed to be perfect killing machines. God this ending is stupid. 

[MegaSovereign]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

For the same reason the quarians forgive the geth for years of slaughter (after you broker peace on Rannoch).


Games move time forward unrealistically fast and idealize certain things. Still, the precedent was set.

Those are different circumstances. The Geth had proven that they truly wanted peace and that it was the Quarians who drew first blood. Even when the Geth took over Rannoch, they didn't go hunting down the remaining Quarians.

Unlike some other race of Machine Gods that have been obliterating races for thousands of years.

The Geth haven't really proven anything to the Quarian masses. Most are still brainwashed by centuries of anti-Geth propaganda. If history tells us anything, the full removal of a mass racist mentality is not and cannot be a smooth transition. 

Admiral Gerrel's motivation for standing down in the peace scenario were probably tactical. Anything else is OOC.

With that said, it's even less believable that there is peace between the organics and Reapers. Maybe it's brainwashing/indoctrination. Maybe it's new found perspective through there integration with technology. 

[His Name was HYR!!]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...


Those are different circumstances. The Geth had proven that they truly wanted peace and that it was the Quarians who drew first blood. Even when the Geth took over Rannoch, they didn't go hunting down the remaining Quarians.

Unlike some other race of Machine Gods that have been obliterating races for thousands of years.

Typical fan ignorance of the Morning War.

No, they're comparable in just about every way.

But my (full) response to this warrants a new thread.

[Mathias]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...


Those are different circumstances. The Geth had proven that they truly wanted peace and that it was the Quarians who drew first blood. Even when the Geth took over Rannoch, they didn't go hunting down the remaining Quarians.

Unlike some other race of Machine Gods that have been obliterating races for thousands of years.

Typical fan ignorance of the Morning War.

No, they're comparable in just about every way.

But my (full) response to this warrants a new thread.

No they're not.

Geth didn't draw first blood, but the Catalyst/Reapers did. The Geth also fought out of self defense, unlike the Reapers who's goal is to wipe out advanced civilzation every 50k years. So immediately your whole argument about The Morning War and The Reaper War just imploded into a thousand pieces.

MegaSovereign wrote...

Mdoggy1214
wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

For the same reason the quarians
forgive the geth for years of slaughter (after you broker peace on
Rannoch).


Games move time forward unrealistically fast and idealize
certain things. Still, the precedent was set.

Those are different
circumstances. The Geth had proven that they truly wanted peace and that it was
the Quarians who drew first blood. Even when the Geth took over Rannoch, they
didn't go hunting down the remaining Quarians.

Unlike some other race of
Machine Gods that have been obliterating races for thousands of
years.

With that said, it's even less believable that there is peace
between the organics and Reapers. Maybe it's brainwashing/indoctrination. Maybe
it's new found perspective through there integration with
technology. 

Both of which are pretty creepy.

[Ravensword]

This thread needs Seival's expertise.

[Br3admax]

Stop believing anything out of the geth consensus. Just to add more to the numerous reasons on why you shouldn't. Every single geth there is having a conversation with the quarians, even though the individual geth even, to that day  that you go in, were not collectively smart enough to speak in a single platform, bar Legion. That entire mission was just sympathy grabber, and apparently, it worked on a lot of you.

Modifié par Br3ad, 12 septembre 2013 - 03:45 .

[Astartes Marine]

Because the green ending has a massive eruption of bleeding hearts and ****** poor writing.


I don't believe in forgiveness for enemies of such magnitude in games, enemies of life itself. No mercy, no respite.

[MegaSovereign]

Br3ad wrote...

Stop believing anything out of the geth consensus. Just to add more to the numerous reasons on why you shouldn't. Every single geth there is having a conversation with the quarians, even though the individual geth even to that day were not collectively smart enough to speak in a single platform, bar Legion. That entire mission was just sympathy grabber, and apparently, it worked on a lot of you.

I don't think their intelligence determines their communcation capabilities. Legion stated in ME2 that they believed analog communction is more primitive than digital. Furthermore, those vids were constructed using Shepard's limited experience with Quarians and Geth. 

I do agree that those vids were just an attempt to turn the Geth into pinnochios, though.

[Genetic Destiny]

They wouldn't, but they're not organics anymore.

[Br3admax]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Stop believing anything out of the geth consensus. Just to add more to the numerous reasons on why you shouldn't. Every single geth there is having a conversation with the quarians, even though the individual geth even to that day were not collectively smart enough to speak in a single platform, bar Legion. That entire mission was just sympathy grabber, and apparently, it worked on a lot of you.

I don't think their intelligence determines their communcation capabilities. Legion stated in ME2 that they believed analog communction is more primitive than digital. Furthermore, those vids were constructed using Shepard's limited experience with Quarians and Geth. 

I do agree that those vids were just an attempt to turn the Geth into pinnochios, though.

"A single geth is as intelligent as a varren. It shouldn't be able to speak."

Wut? 

As to the other thing, Shepard's heard more clicking geth than the one talking Legion. And that still makes no sense.

[In Exile]

I can't touch these topics because it really bothers me, but let me put it this way: people do not ever forget genocide, especially when you've just literally let them out of the camps. But Control (and Synthesis) are about holding hands with the things that seconds before melted your loved ones alive.

That's messed up. Seriously messed up.

[His Name was HYR!!]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Geth didn't draw first blood, but the Catalyst/Reapers did. The Geth also fought out of self defense (... *snip*)

Getting ready for the new thread, are we? Well, here's a question to chew on before we begin...

How did the geth go from [victims, fighting in self-defense] to [bringing a population of billions down to some 17 million?]

Something's gotta give. Self-defense is never that extreme.

[Br3admax]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Geth didn't draw first blood, but the Catalyst/Reapers did. The Geth also fought out of self defense (... *snip*)

Getting ready for the new thread, are we? Well, here's a question to chew on before we begin...

How did the geth go from [victims, fighting in self-defense] to [bringing a population of billions down to some 17 million?]

Something's gotta give. Self-defense is never that extreme.

That's implying that the quarian population didn't grow any in three hundred years. I'm inclined to believe that it was lower than even that. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 12 septembre 2013 - 04:01 .

[MegaSovereign]

I'm saying that their communication method isn't indicative of intelligence. And I believe that quote was from the gang's initial reaction before Shepard met Legion, who then proceeds to give new details about the Geth.

That random clicking is from their digital method of communication, which is technically more advanced than aural/analog communication (according to Legion, who calls it primitive).

[Venom man4]

naes1984 wrote...

Why would they "forgive" the Reapers? They wouldn't. Plus, they have no choice whether or not to be magically changed into unholy abominations of flesh and machine. The real question is: Would they ever forgive Shepherd for violating their bodies in such fundamental ways? I wouldn't forgive Shepherd for doing that. 

Agree, it's logic like this that makes it hard to just forget the endings or not care if a sequel gets made to work this out.

[Kataphrut94]

I'd have thought they were just happy they're not being slaughtered any more.

[wright1978]

iakus wrote...

Because Synthesis was not well thought out at all

Indeed, just part of the whole trainwreck endings disaster.

[KaiserShep]

General TSAR wrote...

Indoctrination.

Makes one wonder. Can the reapers turn off their indoctrination signal, or is it just something that they do no matter what? 

[shodiswe]

The Reapers were victims that were being mindcontrolled by the the Catalyst.. liek toys of his, but they were once independent species.

The Catalyst made them hurt people just like TIM made Shepard shoot Anderson. Do you blame Shepard for shooting Anderson? or the one that actualy made the trigger, trigger?

Was it Shepard or TIM that was responsibel for shooting Anderson? Catalyst?

If it was Shepards fault then the Reapers are guilty in the same way. If not, then the Catalyst is the real "EVIL" that needs to be stopped.

All endings tells us that thigns will be ok as long as the Catalyst is removed.

In Destroy, the Catalyst is destroyed and his slaves annihilated by the explosions. Aswell as EDI, your allied Geth and whatever other synthetics might be hiding in the galaxy.

In Control, the Catalyst is killed and replaced by Shepards brainpaterns, the Catalyst tells us it doesn't look forward to being replaced by Shepard and looks serious if you talk to him about it.
Shepard becomes the new controler of the Reapers, to protect the galaxy from similar dangers, which might be the Leviathans for example.

In Synthesis, the Catalyst dies as the Citadel explodes, the Reapers are free of their tyranical master that demanded the harvesting of the galaxy, like the Catalyst said, the Reapers arn't at war with the galaxy nor are they in conflict with it, they mere do what they must and what they are told.
It was never about what the Reapers wanted, just what they were told they had to do, just as how shepard was made to shoot Anderson.
When free of the Catalyst they help the galaxy rebuild(maybe partialy out of guilt for what they did whiel controled by the Catalyst) and share the knowledge of who they once were and their technology and other knowledge.

In Refuse, you let the catalyst continue it's murdering way and mindcontrol it's victims during the next few decades of slughter and harvest only to be continued in the next cycle.

So, what's most imporant, killing the mastermind behind all the killing and who is the one that keeps the killings going and pulls the trigger. (catalyst)
Or it's mindcontroled slaves and victims who had no coice, just like Shepard had no choice when TIM made him shoot Anderson?

So, yeah, the Reapers never had a choice but the Catalyst had a choice and it's mind was set on killing and sludgifying sentient beings for storage and control purposes to stop the development of AI's.
The reapers on the other hand never had a choice, neither had the indoctrinated thrals like TIM who was controled into making TIM make Shepard shoot Anderson.

In the end, all bad that happend was the fault of the Catalyst.
Control and Synthesis kills the Catalyst and ends the threat to the galaxy that was posed by this one all mighty evil that was at the centre of almost everything bad that was happening during the Reaper invasion.
In Destroy you kill it, aswell as it's slaves and other innocent synthetic lifeforms, because you jstu feel like you have to and it feels great to kill Synthetics in general.

The choice is up to the player.

I consider Destroy to be the worst choice with the exception of Refuse which is just pointless unless you want to give the Catalyst the middlefinger saying, ****you, you get to live a while longer, I can't make the nessesary sacrifise to stop you!

All endings save for Refuse kills and stops the Catalyst, the other differences are for flavor.

Modifié par shodiswe, 12 septembre 2013 - 08:47 .

[shodiswe]

KaiserShep wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

Indoctrination.

Makes one wonder. Can the reapers turn off their indoctrination signal, or is it just something that they do no matter what? 

Maybe the indoctrination signal was controled by the Catalyst, not the reapers themselves, they merely acted as relays for the Catalysts will.. They were mindless pawns forced to do it's bidding. Just as TIM was made to make Shepard shoot Anderson.

The Catalyst wanted Anderson gone so it pulled TIM's string even as you're trying to break that control. TIM in turn forced control on Shepard who was forced to Shoot Anderson.

The Reapers might not have a signal if the Catalyst isn't sending one through them. If Shepard would be the new catalyst then it would be up to Shepard to try and brainwash people with subliminal whispering... or not.

I think it upset a lto of people to findout the Reapers were notihng but pawns of the Catalyst, before they had this massive invasion of evil robots.. then all of sudden, they are nothing but mindless pawns that arn't in conflict with you... They just burn because the Catalyst says so. So instad you got that tiny insignificant brat that exemplifies all the evil of the galaxy... What a let down for people!  That's evil story telling.

Modifié par shodiswe, 12 septembre 2013 - 09:09 .