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[Propelled Rage]

Forgiveness wouldn't be so easy, certainly not weeks or months. Its what is so infuriating with the epilogue. A minute before they were literally turning you into goo, but all of a sudden because of that space magic we are now BFF's, on our noble path to rebuild our planet.

I never thought that perspective would come so soon, not when there has been no evidence of it so far in the storyline. But talk about perspective is only valid if what everyone is subjected to is actually for the benefit and not the most obvious trap for gullibles that one have fallen into. I somehow find it hard to believe the former.

[RiouHotaru]

iakus wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Because perspective. It's easy for us, as people not in that situation, to say "Well we would've NEVER forgiven them and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot!" But we're not in a society like the one in Synthesis. We're not in a reality where such a thing is even possible, so it's impossible to say with certainty.

If you ask me "forgiveness" didn't come easy. But it's a little difficult, IMO, to not feel a little sorry for them if you've played Leviathan. Hell, I even feel sympathy for the Catalyst of all things. His only crime was obeying his creators and doing exactly what they wanted him to do. The Reaper's only crime is being the product of the Catalyst obeying the Leviathans.

If there is anyone to blame, it's the Leviathans. All your anger over the cycles should be directed at them. They're the reason the cycle existed, they're the reason so many people died.

"I control the Reapers.  They are my solution"

Not the Leviathan's solution.  The Catalyst's

And apparantly this little darling, so so advanced that it is an AI "as much as you are just an animal" isn't even as sophisticated an AI as EDI, who can alter her programming in the face of new information and perspective.

The only people I feel sorry for are the players who were subjectied to these endings.

The Catalyst came up with that solution because the Leviathan's demanded a way to prevent organic races from being wiped out by synthetics so they could maintain a steady flow of "tribute".  Again, this all begins with the Leviathans.

And you're missing the context of your quote:

Shepard: So you're just an AI
Catalyst: In so much as you are just animal.

Also, he's an AI that's still shackled.  He's still bound and tied to his original programming.  Even the Leviathans confirm this when Shepard calls them out on how the galaxy is dealing with their mistakes.  The Catalyst is still performing it's intended task.

[elrofrost]

iakus wrote...
And apparantly this little darling, so so advanced that it is an AI "as much as you are just an animal" isn't even as sophisticated an AI as EDI, who can alter her programming in the face of new information and perspective..

Now that is something I just don't get about this lore. The AI (catalyst) being as advanced and old as it is doesn't  understand that destorying life to prserve life is ridiculous? Not to mention thank you Bioware for stealing a well known sci-fi plot. But in most of these plots, the AI destorying life is nuts.

If the Catalyst had appeared to be nuts, then yes that would be better then all the "harvest for the better" talk. EDI evolved during ME2 and 3. Granted I didn't like the fembot EDI became (I would've perfered EDI to stay in the ship) but she still evoles. The Catalysy does nothing except what it's been doing for millions of years.

And Shepard is supposed to blinding trust anything it says? The best ending (if i were forced to say with the current endings) is for everyone to "beam" abarod the Citadel with a nuke strapped to their backs. And destory the damn thing.


 

[elrofrost]

RiouHotaru wrote...

iakus wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Because perspective. It's easy for us, as people not in that situation, to say "Well we would've NEVER forgiven them and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot!" But we're not in a society like the one in Synthesis. We're not in a reality where such a thing is even possible, so it's impossible to say with certainty.

If you ask me "forgiveness" didn't come easy. But it's a little difficult, IMO, to not feel a little sorry for them if you've played Leviathan. Hell, I even feel sympathy for the Catalyst of all things. His only crime was obeying his creators and doing exactly what they wanted him to do. The Reaper's only crime is being the product of the Catalyst obeying the Leviathans.

If there is anyone to blame, it's the Leviathans. All your anger over the cycles should be directed at them. They're the reason the cycle existed, they're the reason so many people died.

"I control the Reapers.  They are my solution"

Not the Leviathan's solution.  The Catalyst's

And apparantly this little darling, so so advanced that it is an AI "as much as you are just an animal" isn't even as sophisticated an AI as EDI, who can alter her programming in the face of new information and perspective.

The only people I feel sorry for are the players who were subjectied to these endings.

The Catalyst came up with that solution because the Leviathan's demanded a way to prevent organic races from being wiped out by synthetics so they could maintain a steady flow of "tribute".  Again, this all begins with the Leviathans.

And you're missing the context of your quote:

Shepard: So you're just an AI
Catalyst: In so much as you are just animal.

Also, he's an AI that's still shackled.  He's still bound and tied to his original programming.  Even the Leviathans confirm this when Shepard calls them out on how the galaxy is dealing with their mistakes.  The Catalyst is still performing it's intended task.

Well ok. Given this explanation i suppose the AI can't be blame. But frankly, I would've blown up the Leviathans too. Cause there's the next war. 

[RiouHotaru]

Yeah, I don't really consider the Reapers as antagonists. They're an enemy yes, but the antagonist of ME3 is Cerberus. The Reapers are just the end of the lot.

[Iakus]

RiouHotaru wrote...

The Catalyst came up with that solution because the Leviathan's demanded a way to prevent organic races from being wiped out by synthetics so they could maintain a steady flow of "tribute".  Again, this all begins with the Leviathans.

And turning on the Leviathans gets them tribute how exactly?

And you're missing the context of your quote:

Shepard: So you're just an AI
Catalyst: In so much as you are just animal.

Also, he's an AI that's still shackled.  He's still bound and tied to his original programming.  Even the Leviathans confirm this when Shepard calls them out on how the galaxy is dealing with their mistakes.  The Catalyst is still performing it's intended task.

RIght, so the Catalyst is claiming to be so far advanced beyond AIs as we understand them that EDI in comparison is a primitive chimp who hasn't even figured out how to harness the power of fire 

And there isn't a shred of evidence to indicate that the Catalyst is shackled. Just because it continues to search for an answer doesn't mean it's shackled.  EDI continued to help against the Collectors even after she was unshackled.  

The Leviathans's line is simply a matter of pride when confronted with th emagnitude of its misteps.  Much like how Bioware feels about these endings despite the backlash "There was no mistake.  It still serves its purpose.

[MegaSovereign]

The Catalyst is built with a mandate to preserve life (with certain flexibility as to how it defines life). I think this is directly stated in Leviathan, and inferred even before the EC came out.

The Catalyst is not a traditional AI construct like EDI and the Geth who have their own aspirations and goals.

[Seival]

Ravensword wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

For some reason I didn't think about this until now. I was always too busy concentrating on why Synthesis is wrong for other reasons, I didn't look at it from the most basic point of view. This to me just reinforces how incredible stupid and unbelievable the Synthesis ending is. There's is no way people would just automatically forgive and get along with beings who had just recently destroyed their homes and killed their families. I don't care if the effects of Synthesis is suppose to make them understand each other. I understand why Muslim Extremists suicide bomb the hell outta each other, doesn't mean I'm happy or agree with what they're doing.

It's such complete nonsense. How can anyone buy this scenario?  

Actually, you'll really want to ask Seival.

Perspective #1.
Why should Quarians forgive the Geth after the peace was achieved on Rannoch?
Why should Krogan forgive Salarians and Turians after the Genophage was destroyed?
Why should Humans forgive the Turians after the First Contact War was over?
...etc.

Perspective #2.
Why should organics forgive or not forgive someone who is not responsible for the disaster? Reapers stopped being
The Reapers after Synthesis, moreover, they helped to repair the damage.



I hope I answered your question?

Modifié par Seival, 12 septembre 2013 - 08:26 .

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Catalyst is built with a mandate to preserve life (with certain flexibility as to how it defines life). I think this is directly stated in Leviathan, and inferred even before the EC came out.

The Catalyst is not a traditional AI construct like EDI and the Geth who have their own aspirations and goals.

It certainly isn't  It appears to be far more primitive.  More VI than AI

Modifié par iakus, 12 septembre 2013 - 09:14 .

[Br3admax]

Seival wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

For some reason I didn't think about this until now. I was always too busy concentrating on why Synthesis is wrong for other reasons, I didn't look at it from the most basic point of view. This to me just reinforces how incredible stupid and unbelievable the Synthesis ending is. There's is no way people would just automatically forgive and get along with beings who had just recently destroyed their homes and killed their families. I don't care if the effects of Synthesis is suppose to make them understand each other. I understand why Muslim Extremists suicide bomb the hell outta each other, doesn't mean I'm happy or agree with what they're doing.

It's such complete nonsense. How can anyone buy this scenario?  

Actually, you'll really want to ask Seival.

Perspective #1.
Why should Quarians forgive the Geth after the peace was achieved on Rannoch?
Why should Krogan forgive Salarians and Turians after the Genophage was destroyed?
Why should Humans forgive the Turians after the First Contact War was over?
...etc.

Perspective #2.
Why should organics forgive or not forgive someone who is not responsible for the disaster? Reapers stopped being
The Reapers after Synthesis, moreover, they helped to repair the damage.



I hope I answered your question?

No, you answered that you lacked sanity long ago. None of those parties should just trust the others. Its been 30 years and the humans still don't trust the turians, or vise versa. What is your point? 

[Bionuts]

We know that only 1% of the galaxy has been explored in the MEU. Perhaps the Catalyst simply tries to prevent a synthetic race that would eventually wipe out all life in the galaxy.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

My belief is that the synthesis process involves the Reaperization of all beings. From the perspective the game gives you, I think it's showing you what the Reapers and the Catalyst want you to see.

It's pretty terrifying.

[AlanC9]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

My belief is that the synthesis process involves the Reaperization of all beings. From the perspective the game gives you, I think it's showing you what the Reapers and the Catalyst want you to see.

It's pretty terrifying.

Anything can be terrifying if you make up bad stuff about it.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

AlanC9 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

My belief is that the synthesis process involves the Reaperization of all beings. From the perspective the game gives you, I think it's showing you what the Reapers and the Catalyst want you to see.

It's pretty terrifying.

Anything can be terrifying if you make up bad stuff about it.

Sure. My perspective is that everything is 'perfect' from what the Catalyst believes is perfection. Or what the Reapers think is perfection. 

I'd rather not go with that type of perfection. I've seen what it entails.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Anything can be terrifying if you make up bad stuff about it.

Or if you stop to think about the implications of something that's really really poorly thought out to begin with.

[RZIBARA]

Synthesis is bad, and anyone who chooses it is bad and should feel bad

[AlanC9]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Sure. My perspective is that everything is 'perfect' from what the Catalyst believes is perfection. Or what the Reapers think is perfection. 

I'd rather not go with that type of perfection. I've seen what it entails.

Hey, if you want to sign on with IT, that's your business.

[in it for the lolz]

Maybe Starkid is a C'tan, the last of it's kind. And everyone in the Mass Effect galaxy have really been turned into Necrons. And everything they see and do is really just in their heads and they are really enslaving galaxies to feed the last C'tan.

I give you the C'tan Theory.

[wright1978]

Yeah the only thing i can make it work is if the synthesis process has a sub strand where organics are made docile and compliant(a la Serenity), so that they don't fight the presence of mass killers as their new babysitters.

[elrofrost]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Catalyst is built with a mandate to preserve life (with certain flexibility as to how it defines life). I think this is directly stated in Leviathan, and inferred even before the EC came out.

The Catalyst is not a traditional AI construct like EDI and the Geth who have their own aspirations and goals.

But the Leviathan's also said that their AI evolved. They allowed it to, to help solve the problem. 

[TheProtheans]

Seival wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

For some reason I didn't think about this until now. I was always too busy concentrating on why Synthesis is wrong for other reasons, I didn't look at it from the most basic point of view. This to me just reinforces how incredible stupid and unbelievable the Synthesis ending is. There's is no way people would just automatically forgive and get along with beings who had just recently destroyed their homes and killed their families. I don't care if the effects of Synthesis is suppose to make them understand each other. I understand why Muslim Extremists suicide bomb the hell outta each other, doesn't mean I'm happy or agree with what they're doing.

It's such complete nonsense. How can anyone buy this scenario?  

Actually, you'll really want to ask Seival.

Perspective #1.
Why should Quarians forgive the Geth after the peace was achieved on Rannoch?
Why should Krogan forgive Salarians and Turians after the Genophage was destroyed?
Why should Humans forgive the Turians after the First Contact War was over?
...etc.

Perspective #2.
Why should organics forgive or not forgive someone who is not responsible for the disaster? Reapers stopped being
The Reapers after Synthesis, moreover, they helped to repair the damage.



I hope I answered your question?

I didn't ask for this.

[General TSAR]

Seival wrote...


Perspective #1.
Why should Quarians forgive the Geth after the peace was achieved on Rannoch?
Why should Krogan forgive Salarians and Turians after the Genophage was destroyed?
Why should Humans forgive the Turians after the First Contact War was over?
...etc.

Perspective #2.
Why should organics forgive or not forgive someone who is not responsible for the disaster? Reapers stopped being
The Reapers after Synthesis, moreover, they helped to repair the damage.



I hope I answered your question?

This screwball would be BFF with Dr. Challus Mercer.

elrofrost wrote...
 Unless I kill off the Geth, then it's Destroy (screw EDI).

I like your style.

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

My belief is that the synthesis process involves the Reaperization of all beings. From the perspective the game gives you, I think it's showing you what the Reapers and the Catalyst want you to see.

It's pretty terrifying.

My thoughts exactly, plus what kind of sane person would forgive/embrace giant warships that were just waging total war against all advanced life in the Galaxy?

Modifié par General TSAR, 13 septembre 2013 - 01:36 .