213 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

Killdren88 wrote...

Seival wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Is the whole brainwashing concept part of the Deception theory?

Brainwashing is a natural part of any society. And it's a natural part of growth of any intelligent living being.

At least now your being honest about all individuality being removed in synthesis.

Was individuality removed in case of Synthesis? Of course not.
Were people influenced? Yes, of course.
Was this influence positive? Definitely yes. 

[MegaSovereign]

Seival wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Is the whole brainwashing concept part of the Deception theory?

Brainwashing is a natural part of any society. And it's a natural part of growth of any intelligent living being.

I'm pretty sure you mean "social conditioning," not brainwashing. 

[Seival]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Seival wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Is the whole brainwashing concept part of the Deception theory?

Brainwashing is a natural part of any society. And it's a natural part of growth of any intelligent living being.

I'm pretty sure you mean "social conditioning," not brainwashing. 

Details

Any intelligent influence is brainwashing. It can be both positive and negative.

[Br3admax]

Seival wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Seival wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Is the whole brainwashing concept part of the Deception theory?

Brainwashing is a natural part of any society. And it's a natural part of growth of any intelligent living being.

I'm pretty sure you mean "social conditioning," not brainwashing. 

Details

Any intelligent influence is brainwashing. It can be both positive and negative.

No. You obviously have finally lost what was left of your sense. One teaches you how to live with others, the other strips away free will and forces you to do something. Social Conditioning is optional, in the long run, brainwashing is not.

[MegaSovereign]

Seival wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Seival wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Is the whole brainwashing concept part of the Deception theory?

Brainwashing is a natural part of any society. And it's a natural part of growth of any intelligent living being.

I'm pretty sure you mean "social conditioning," not brainwashing. 

Details

Any intelligent influence is brainwashing. It can be both positive and negative.

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/brainwashing

"Forcible indoctrination." It's not a subtle influence. 

[JasonShepard]

Seival wrote...

It's better to be brainwashed peaceful civilian than an angry unstable person. Better for both this person and everyone around that person.

Define 'better'.
You see, the statement depends upon your personal value system. For you, it might be the case that "brainwashed and peaceful is better than angry and unstable".

I work from the premise that each individual has the right to choose their own fate*, so I don't believe that you have any right to brainwash them.

(*If they are not in a position to make that choice, then the choice is deferred to the person who knew them best, and could therefore make a reasoned guess as to what their choice would be.)

[Wynterdust]

Brainwashing is effectively indoctrination. Singularly negative. Anything that requires forcing someone to change their views is negative. It invades ones free will.
Educating someone about a different set of views is not negative however.
Synthesis does not educate, it forces a change. A change that evidently, a lot of people disagree with.

[Iakus]

Seival wrote...

Was individuality removed in case of Synthesis? Of course not.
Were people influenced? Yes, of course.
Was this influence positive? Definitely yes. 

But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother

[MegaSovereign]

 

He braced himself for the inevitable surge of pain as the aliens fought to bend him to their will. Instead, he felt nothing. The lack of opposition confused him. He knew they were still present; the wires and tubes protruding from his joints and crisscrossing beneath his flesh confirmed that beyond any doubt. But they had become invisible. He no longer processed them as other; they were part of him now, inseparable and indistinguishable from his own identity.

That's a good thing. Influence can work both ways. 
A crazy idea began to form in his mind. If the Reaper technology was part of him now, maybe that meant he would be able to influence and control it the same way the Reapers had controlled his body earlier. Maybe he could draw on the cybernetic enhancements and his newfound biotic abilities whenever he wanted to. Maybe he could use them as tools to achieve his own goals.

You are superior to the pathetic beings of flesh that surround you.
The implications were staggering. Liberating. He had transcended the slow, laborious process of natural selection. He had broken free of the cycle of passing randomly mutated genes down from one generation to the next with the slim hope of gaining some minuscule natural advantage. He himself was changing quickly and with purpose. He was evolving toward a perfect being.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 13 septembre 2013 - 11:44 .

[Seival]

Wynterdust wrote...

Brainwashing is effectively indoctrination. Singularly negative. Anything that requires forcing someone to change their views is negative. It invades ones free will.
Educating someone about a different set of views is not negative however.
Synthesis does not educate, it forces a change. A change that evidently, a lot of people disagree with.

Someone influenced the person so the person changed his/her mind on some matter. Eventually, that prevented a murder... Such an evil influence by your logic, isn't it? And don't tell me about educating in this particular case. The mentioned influence could be intimidating for example. The person was forced to change his/her point of view, scared so much that had nothing left but to change his/her mind.

Just an example of positive intimidation. Positive brainwashing. Fear can brainwash quite well. And fear can be used to force people to make some positive things, or abandon some negative plans.

[Br3admax]

Seival wrote...

Wynterdust wrote...

Brainwashing is effectively indoctrination. Singularly negative. Anything that requires forcing someone to change their views is negative. It invades ones free will.
Educating someone about a different set of views is not negative however.
Synthesis does not educate, it forces a change. A change that evidently, a lot of people disagree with.

Someone influenced the person so the person changed his/her mind on some matter. Eventually, that prevented a murder... Such an evil influence by your logic, isn't it? And don't tell me about educating in this particular case. The mentioned influence could be intimidating for example. The person was forced to change his/her point of view, scared so much that had nothing left but to change his/her mind.

Just an example of positive intimidation. Positive brainwashing. Fear can brainwash quite well. And fear can be used to force people to make some positive things, or abandon some negative plans.

Never go into politics. Never be trusted with the power to control someone's life. Never. 

[JasonShepard]

Seival, do you really see no difference between influencing someone and controlling them? Because you seem to be using the term 'brainwashing' to refer to both, whereas a distinction would be useful.

Brainwashing is an attempt to gain full control over someone. To remove their free-will. Merely influencing someone leaves their free will intact. And so, I would not view intimidation to be equal to brainwashing - although large-scale intimidation can be just as bad.

Modifié par JasonShepard, 14 septembre 2013 - 06:33 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

Wynterdust wrote...

Brainwashing is effectively indoctrination. Singularly negative. Anything that requires forcing someone to change their views is negative. It invades ones free will.
Educating someone about a different set of views is not negative however.
Synthesis does not educate, it forces a change. A change that evidently, a lot of people disagree with.

Someone influenced the person so the person changed his/her mind on some matter. Eventually, that prevented a murder... Such an evil influence by your logic, isn't it? And don't tell me about educating in this particular case. The mentioned influence could be intimidating for example. The person was forced to change his/her point of view, scared so much that had nothing left but to change his/her mind.

Just an example of positive intimidation. Positive brainwashing. Fear can brainwash quite well. And fear can be used to force people to make some positive things, or abandon some negative plans.

That's still not brainwashing. Brainwashing is not a catch-all term for any example of someone changing their mind because of someone else's influence. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 14 septembre 2013 - 05:59 .

[Massa FX]

Didn't read thread, just OP...

This was one of the major issues harped on by posters ~ 3/2012 - 5/2012. No species should be OK seeing a Reaper that murdered millions of their species walking around the neighborhood as if recent death and destruction didn't happen.

This is an issue, for me, with Control and Synthesis endings.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Throw the Catalyst out the airlock. The illusions of the control rods, synthesis beam and tube disappear. In the middle of the "chamber" level there is a big box with a big red button labeled "Reaper Off Button". Push it.

"Admiral Gerrel to all fleets. The Reaper line is broken. They're completely helpless. Keep firing and finish them off."

And there went the reapers into the junkyard of history.

[Redbelle]

Is Seival denouncing free will again?

And are those with free will arguing and/or supporting him?

And isn't the free range of opinion a validation that, regardless of what model people choose to view the world through.... life is just to complicated to put in a box.....

All of which requires a judgement call?

According to Seival the Cat is Jimmy Saval and should be praised for all his good works only.

According to many other's Jimmy's character should be weighed in accordance to the full record of his actions. All of which becomes suspect when you see that his childrens work harboured a darker aspect.

The Catalyst may have had good intention's, but they manifested in a way that was evil.

Period.

And I'm glad someone created a video where it got thrown out an airlock. Get that person working on ME4!

[Yestare7]

zaalbar76 wrote...

The galaxy is turned into the BORG Collective... Forgiveness is Irrelevant!

Proly the best answer.  Synthesis we are all mindless drones on rainbows!

[YourFleshIsMine]

Yestare7 wrote...

zaalbar76 wrote...

The galaxy is turned into the BORG Collective... Forgiveness is Irrelevant!

Proly the best answer.  Synthesis we are all mindless drones on rainbows!

I concur. People are basically genetically controlled and you can be sure that someone, someday will have a genetic defect or anomaly and start realising this. A new war is born....

[BronzTrooper]

I don't know why people would forgive the Reapers in Synthesis though it may be for the same reasons as Control...

[Killdren88]

Gamer072196 wrote...

I don't know why people would forgive the Reapers in Synthesis though it may be for the same reasons as Control...

The only way to make people happy without forcing a point of view on them is to kill every last reaper. All synthesis is froce the point of view on people whether they want it or not and they can't even speak out agianst the change once it happens. They are brain washed, instantly subjigated fed a false reality all the while the Reapers hovering over them not needing to lift a single finger as they watch all the beings of the galaxy scurry about becoming no better than their creators.

[KaiserShep]

And with Renegade Control, you can just troll and frighten the galaxy with your legion of corrupted reaper monsters for all eternity.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 15 septembre 2013 - 08:54 .

[shodiswe]

Br3ad wrote...

Seival wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Seival wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Is the whole brainwashing concept part of the Deception theory?

Brainwashing is a natural part of any society. And it's a natural part of growth of any intelligent living being.

I'm pretty sure you mean "social conditioning," not brainwashing. 

Details

Any intelligent influence is brainwashing. It can be both positive and negative.

No. You obviously have finally lost what was left of your sense. One teaches you how to live with others, the other strips away free will and forces you to do something. Social Conditioning is optional, in the long run, brainwashing is not.

It's actualy the same concept, it's usualy society which determiens what's acceptable though.
Normaly it isn't acceptable to force people by the use of medication and other technical equipment against their will.. Though, it's common that it's done on people who don't follow the expected norms.
Some people are just more right and stronger than others which gives them more right to exert their will on other people.
Being part of a special belief or system we would think it best for everyone, because we can't be wrong, right?

Modifié par shodiswe, 15 septembre 2013 - 09:55 .

[Bfler]

YourFleshIsMine wrote...

Yestare7 wrote...

zaalbar76 wrote...

The galaxy is turned into the BORG Collective... Forgiveness is Irrelevant!

Proly the best answer.  Synthesis we are all mindless drones on rainbows!

I concur. People are basically genetically controlled and you can be sure that someone, someday will have a genetic defect or anomaly and start realising this. A new war is born....

It only needs a crazy scientist, who develops a virus, which targets the hybrids and all beings in the galaxy could be eliminated. Because of the lacking diversity of the species, nobody would remain.
And because it seems also every microorganism is affected by the green beam, this state would last for all eternity.

[AlanC9]

Killdren88 wrote...

The only way to make people happy without forcing a point of view on them is to kill every last reaper. All synthesis is froce the point of view on people whether they want it or not and they can't even speak out agianst the change once it happens. They are brain washed, instantly subjigated fed a false reality all the while the Reapers hovering over them not needing to lift a single finger as they watch all the beings of the galaxy scurry about becoming no better than their creators.

What's false about the Synthesis reality?