557 réponses à ce sujet

[jalynntownsend]

its interesting to bring in a religon in a video games. i think that in mass effect you should let each race have a well developed different types of religon. Example Salarian based off scientology Asari based on buddha and etc. what makes the human race different is that we all believe in different things where as these other races believe in only one religon. As for what role Earth religon deity some well probably convert to alien religon others won't. like i said before the earth is made up of different people with different religons.

[Willowhugger]

Well, yes. "Cogito, ergo sum" or "I think therefore I am" is usually the answer to that.

The issue of religion as a psychological relationship between the imagination, personification, and the innate question of one's relationship to the universe is a pretty long discussion. Suffice to say, Karl Jung had some good points regarding the belief that philosophy, fiction, religion, and artistry were all interelated.



The main point being that "feeling" provides context for facts to matter.

[Trace007]

Hmm, religion in games.

I guess I really don't mind. What I would like to see are more spiritual things in games (no, not gods).
Maybe a game with Out of Body Experiences and alternate dimensions. THAT would really interest me.

(If you want to know what I mean, imagine a game build through the eyes of Dr. Manhattan.)

[Borschtbeet]

Religion is just some stupid make believe crap that people use as a safety blanket to make themselves feel better about their ignorance of the universe around them.



There is no need to get into a deep discussion about it. Really, how much is there to discuss with people who believe that some magical dude got bored one day and created a universe?



Is there anyone out there who is really stupid enough to believe that something as vast and complex as the universe has such a simple answer to it's origin? Wait...dumb question.



Anyways, yeah religion is stupid and if it's portrayed in video games it should be done so negatively.

[Willowhugger]

I guess my opinion on ME and Religion is.



I want Mass Effect's Earth to feel like Earth. I want people to still be Muslims, Christians, Hindus, and so on. I don't want them magically to have all become atheists and communists like in Star Trek or to suddenly all be one race. I want a clear sense of continuity from how exactly we got from our present day to where my Shepard is kicking ass on the side of the Citadel tower in Zero-G.

[T1l]

Borschtbeet wrote...
...stuff...

You see, this is why threads like this get locked.

[Willowhugger]

Anyways, yeah religion is stupid and if it's portrayed in video games it should be done so negatively.

I'm sorry you feel this way.  Though just as a note to put the shoe on the other foot, were you a religious person, how exactly would you feel about the point of discussing a subject with a person who approached them from this point of view?

And regarding your statement.  Complex systems arise from simple beginnings.  Everything complex begins from a single reaction.

[Yojimboo]

Medhia Nox wrote...

That is not true Yojimboo.

Do you know many scientists? I assume these are the people you believe "know more about our world".

So you deny the fact that if we would show a TV show to a Neanderthal he would assume it's the work of a higher power? Oh maybe thats why all the ancient deity's came into existence, i mean the Norse/Germanic/Rome/Greek/ Agypten gods prove my point perfectly.

[Houkka]

I'm having a hard time seeing modern religion in the world of Mass Effect. In a way. The fact that there are intelligent, space-faring alien species living in our galaxy is in a bit of a conflict with, for example, the bible. If these alien species had never heard of human religions before, surely our religions cannot be true, right? Then again, Jahve only informed native americans about the chance to get to heaven in the 15th century, he could have done the same with turians, asari, quarians and the rest.



I'm not at all convinced that all these galactic species would even have developed religion. They could have followed a slightly different evolutionary path than us, one that doesn't include religion.



If you ask me, the amount of religion in ME 1 was fine, please do not insert more.

[MarginalBeast]

Borschtbeet wrote...

Religion is just some stupid make believe crap that people use as a safety blanket to make themselves feel better about their ignorance of the universe around them.

There is no need to get into a deep discussion about it. Really, how much is there to discuss with people who believe that some magical dude got bored one day and created a universe?

Is there anyone out there who is really stupid enough to believe that something as vast and complex as the universe has such a simple answer to it's origin? Wait...dumb question.

Anyways, yeah religion is stupid and if it's portrayed in video games it should be done so negatively.

You obviously have a lot to learn about religion.

Here's lesson #1: Christianity is not the only religion on Earth.

[Willowhugger]

So you deny the fact that if we would show a TV show to a Neanderthal he would assume it's the work of a higher power? Oh maybe thats why all the ancient deity's came into existence, i mean the Norse/Germanic/Rome/Greek/ Agypten gods prove my point perfectly.

So-called primitive people weren't any stupider than modern people, they just had less access to information.  If you were shown a holographic generator, you would find it extraordinary but you wouldn't necessarily be inclined to worship it even though it was beyond your understanding.

[Borschtbeet]

Willowhugger wrote...

Anyways, yeah religion is stupid and if it's portrayed in video games it should be done so negatively.

I'm sorry you feel this way.  Though just as a note to put the shoe on the other foot, were you a religious person, how exactly would you feel about the point of discussing a subject with a person who approached them from this point of view?

And regarding your statement.  Complex systems arise from simple beginnings.  Everything complex begins from a single reaction.

I think the universe may well be out of our ability to understand.  The rules of creating the universe are not the same as say baking a pie.  If there is truly a beginning, the fact that religious people are 100 percent convinced that that first reaction was some cosmic magician who created an entire universe out of nowhere for no apparent reason shows how stupid religious people are.
This explanation is completely impossible since all it does is replace one question(how did the universe come to be) with another(how did this cosmic magician come to be).

[atheelogos]

[quote]Willowhugger wrote...

[quote]
[/quote]Have you not heard of western secularism? Its helped the west immensely. Your confusing communism and secularism. They're two very different things.
[/quote]

Western...secularism....helped society.

Right.

No offense, but the secularist movement really never gained much of a toe-hold in the United States of America and neither it or Europe particularly became free of conflict.  Even the seperation of Church and State that was reaffirmed was actually forwarded as much by religious individuals who wanted the government OUT of ITS affairs as much as religion out of government.

Technological advancement participates apace irregardless of religion.  Islamic society, Chinese, and of course modern American (which is distinctly religious) all show its independent of religious thought.  Secular philosophies have given rise to rampant racism, classism, and other matters are certainly no innately better than religious ones.

I'm sorry, I'm just not terribly impressed with the school of thought that claims that secularism is innately better than mysticism.  Then again, as a technology loving pantheist, I may be an odd choice for this discussion.
[/quote]...... :mellow:secularism  has a few different definitions and I'm not sure you and me are talking about the same thing here. What is secularism to you and what would you prefer to it?

[Willowhugger]

Houkka wrote...

I'm having a hard time seeing modern religion in the world of Mass Effect. In a way. The fact that there are intelligent, space-faring alien species living in our galaxy is in a bit of a conflict with, for example, the bible. If these alien species had never heard of human religions before, surely our religions cannot be true, right? Then again, Jahve only informed native americans about the chance to get to heaven in the 15th century, he could have done the same with turians, asari, quarians and the rest.

Not to argue, but there's actually schools of religious thought that included the exitsence of aliens and the Catholic Church of all things has a pre-prepared release statement if aliens are ever proven to exist.  I kid you not, they really do.

[Willowhugger]

...... :mellow:secularism  has a few different definitions and I'm not sure you and me are talking about the same thing here. What is secularism to you and what would you prefer to it?

I was going with the definition of Western societal structures independent of religion.  I.e. the trend to divorce religious institutions from government, media, and thought branches.  I.e. there's nothing innately wrong with it but I don't really think it's done all that much by itself.

Sorry if I went a bit overboard.  I didn't mean to come off as haughty, I appreciate your commentary.

[Borschtbeet]

Many of the world's "religions" are debatable as to whether or not they even qualify as religion.



I think Buddhism for example qualifies as more of a lifestyle philosophy. There is nothing supernatural in Buddhism and thus it's teaching is benign.

[atheelogos]

Yojimboo wrote...

This thread can only become a flamefest, there are 2 things that should never be discussed in a gamesboard.

1) Religion
2) Politic

For both, people started wars. I never ever saw a thread about Religion making it above the 300 post marks before it became utter ridiculousness.

Btw people talking in the 3rd person are the most awkward. Trying to imitate the Hanar?

Acutally it was doing pretty good before a few select people came in and messed it up. I think its possible to save this thread and bring the topic back to religion in Dragon Age and ME.

[Willowhugger]

Borschtbeet wrote...

Many of the world's "religions" are debatable as to whether or not they even qualify as religion.

I think Buddhism for example qualifies as more of a lifestyle philosophy. There is nothing supernatural in Buddhism and thus it's teaching is benign.

Only certain branches of Buddhism.  The major branches of Buddhism includes Immortal Saints, Reincarnation, and the achievement of union with an all-encompassing spirit.

[Trace007]

Nobody ever notices how close science and religion really are to each other.

[Yojimboo]

Willowhugger wrote...

So you deny the fact that if we would show a TV show to a Neanderthal he would assume it's the work of a higher power? Oh maybe thats why all the ancient deity's came into existence, i mean the Norse/Germanic/Rome/Greek/ Agypten gods prove my point perfectly.

So-called primitive people weren't any stupider than modern people, they just had less access to information.  If you were shown a holographic generator, you would find it extraordinary but you wouldn't necessarily be inclined to worship it even though it was beyond your understanding.

This is funny, people still worshiped Zeus/Odin/Thor/Poseidon because nature was beyond their comprehension. Or like you said, they laked information. 

Modifié par Yojimboo, 21 janvier 2010 - 01:05 .

[Borschtbeet]

You know, I honestly don't give a damn what people choose to believe.



But once people start saying we should poison the minds of our children by teaching them that mankind roamed the earth with Dinosaurs, or that the Earth is in the center of the universe or other beliefs from the dark ages, then we have a problem.



People are free to be idiots, but if you try to force your poison on society then may you die in the most agonizing way imaginable and may your children suffer the same fate for the sake of keeping the gene pool clean.

[Medhia Nox]

Borschtbeet - your understanding of religion is severely lacking.



Do you find that creating negative posts on a thread of people who are - for the most part - getting along and discussing something maturely to be a superior way of acting? Are you the advanced example by which we should all model ourselves after?



-----



The funny thing about Cartesian Doubt (Cogito Ergo Sum) "I think, therefor I am."



It was said in the Bible: God said, as the burning bush before Moses: "I am, that I am." The Bible stated that God/The Universe/Whatever - exists, because it is aware that it exists. I found this interesting.



Also, Descartes assumed that everything could be questioned - except for his "Evil Genius". Though, the question could be asked - why did he assume "The Evil Genius" was real? If he had doubted this creation of his - then his principle would have been flawed.



----



Which brings another topic up alongside religion.



Buddhism, Taosim, and Confucianism all started as philosophical concepts. Heck, even Hinduism really.



Then you've got Nichomacean Ethics, Kant's Critique of Reason, etc. etc.



Let's throw more philosophy into these games. I think it would lend to having more in depth NPCs and a more believable universe.

[atheelogos]

NICKjnp wrote...

Mr. Gerbz wrote...

The more advanced a species becomes, the more people of that species realize there is not some invisible guy they can blame for everything.

Religion is part of the human pysche.  It is our way of understanding the universe...

I could have sworn science was our way of understanding the universe, but I may have been mistaken . lol