557 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia Nox]

Just for the sake of trying to get this back on topic:



I think adding elements of the Mahabharata into something like Dragon Age would be awsome. Hinduism is such a colorful religion with so many amazing stories. Though many of us in the West do not know much of them, characters like Arjuna are really interesting figures.



On a purely fantasy level - the monsters and entities of Hinduism are very "alien" to our Western understandings and would be a refreshing addition.



---



Zorostrianism would also be interesting - the battle between good and evil in that religion is not decided yet (as it is, in say, Christianity). The choices humans make are very important in the Zorostrian faith.



Having a fantasy world where the victory of evil is a very real possibility would be cool. Most RPGs don't take this approach. Mass Effect and Dragon Age force you to "save the world" on the premise that because you're a living being.. you want the world to live even if you're a "bad guy".



The possibility that the Warden or Shepard could usher in the annihilation of the universe letting "evil" win - its a compelling idea (to me).

[Willowhugger]

To actually get into a deep topic of religion in Mass Effect.



Do we want religious questions in Mass Effect 2?



Shepard dies and rises from the Grave, so to speak.



That's got to open a can of existential questions, even if you play him as a die hard atheist.



Doesn't it?

[Trace007]

It seems he's ignoring many posts.



Honestly, it doesn't phase me. I don't care what he says. What I DO care about is that he's attracting the attention of everyone else, completely pulling this thread downhill.

[MarginalBeast]

Borschtbeet, you are an absolute embarrassment to atheists and agnostics.

Modifié par MarginalBeast, 21 janvier 2010 - 01:37 .

[RyuKazuha]

Medhia Nox wrote...

RyuKazuha -

I understand and agree. Most people would be bored to tears probably. Just a thought.

I don't have a comprehensive understanding of all philosophy (especially Kant, I do have his works though and I'm "working on them"). Too many philosophers - too little time.

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If philosophy was touched up, then it would probably have to take one philosopher as "truth" and explore that possibility. Otherwise, we come out with the Matrix.

I'm about to get my university degree on that crap. x.x

[NICKjnp]

Trace007 wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

Trace007 wrote...

The ignorance in this thread is childish.

Like a book, you cannot critique something without knowing its content.
So, unless a person posting here has experience in both science and religion, I don't give a damn as to what you say, and nobody else should either.

I do.  Have a BA to prove it...

Awesome. What is your point of view?

Ok... here it goes.  Religion is part of the human psyche.  It molds who we are.  It affects how we view ourselves in the universe.  It is our way of understanding our place in the universe.... regardless of religious belief system.  It stems from our need to understand death and what happens to us after we die.  Everyone has a belief system.  Even being and atheist is a belief system.  Science and religion have coexisted since we first started using basic tools.  I find it hard to believe that in two hundred years religion would simply cease to exist like some in this forum are claiming it will.

As for all the fighting going on.... I really don't have a point of view.

[T1l]

Borschtbeet wrote...

No, that is not what I said.  I just think that philosophy is an outdated means of doing so.  We should rely on science and stop wasting time trying to find out things like "what are ethics?" or "how do you define morality?"

This is what philosophy attempts to answer but the truth is you cannot ever have one final answer for any of those questions.  They are too subjective.  One man's killer is another man's hero, you can never make universal sense of it and that is why humans will always find at least some form of conflict despite their common interests.

Philosophy=useless drivel.

Seriously though...I'm getting sleepy.

Although I will admit empirical facts are often hard to disprove, discussion, disbelief and suspicion are how we move forward. Without discussion we'd still be stuck in the dark ages. Everything should be questioned; even science and mathematics. Always. Our future depends heavily on how well we understand the structure of the world in which we live.

[atheelogos]

NICKjnp wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

Mr. Gerbz wrote...

The more advanced a species becomes, the more people of that species realize there is not some invisible guy they can blame for everything.

Religion is part of the human pysche.  It is our way of understanding the universe...

I could have sworn science was our way of understanding the universe, but I may have been mistaken . lol

better wording would have been "our place in the" rather than "the".

So hopefully this is better for you:  Religion is part of the human psyche.  It is our way of understanding our place in the universe.

Yes I see what you mean. I think I wrote something like that in one of these post.... good luck finding it though. lol
I would also like to add that Philosophy can be a proper substitute in that reguard.

[Medhia Nox]

The problem is, we don't know if he "dies". He could have slipped into a coma. ((Maybe I'm wrong?)) Then, we know that he was "put back together". But I've read that this is more of a medical thing than a resurrection thing. You know, those convenient sci-fi vats of nutrient "cure all".



You know what WOULD be interesting though?



If they said that Shepard "went" somewhere but left it confusing as to whether or not he went on to an "afterlife" or went deeper into his subconcious and started "living" the information from the Prothean relays.

[Willowhugger]

I think there's some good fun with religious imagery.



We've got the "Afterlife Club", The Lazarus Project, The Reapers, and other elements.



I think it's very mythological.

[CapsFan67]

I like the way religion was handled in ME1, in all BioWare games for that fact, because it is not forced on you. You can take it or leave it.



In some games like DA:O (Andraste and the Maker), Oblivion (The Nine Divines), ect., I liked the way it was handled. Very diverse, and believable belief systems. It makes me believe that these very systems of belief could have very well been in place, in today's world, given different circumstances.



I am agnostic. I prefer to figure things out for myself, and develop my own theories on the universe. I believe in a higher power. I do not believe this higher power is the all knowing, all seeing, omnipotent being other religions assign it to be. I believe that whatever that higher power is, it's higher for a reason, and we as still evolving humans can not even begin to comprehend it's meaning, purpose, or plan.



I think Malcolm Reynolds said something along the lines of "Praying is a long wait for a train that ain't comin'.". I'm all about that comment. I think I'll go to the grave not knowing.

[Hathur]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I'm not sure if it's been brought up already, but how do players here feel about the way religion was handled in Dragon Age: Origins--a fictional monotheism which could very easily be compared to real-world religions?

It is interesting and engaging? Does it seem preachy or modeled too closely on a real-world religion? Did you even notice? Did you want to learn more about it?

And to keep it on topic for the forum: What kind of religion system do you think would fit in well with the Mass Effect universe? What role would a modern-day Earth religion deity play for a space-faring, alien-meeting human?

And thank you all for keeping it mature and professional. I appreciate that.

I am a big fan of Dragon Age. I felt religion in DA was handled well... it didn't seem to be a huge theme in the game... but it played an appropriate significant role. It's hard to fathom even a fictional world that has humans which doesn't include religion for them, as it has seems a major aspect of our species. Because of that, I appreciated the detail in the game's lore regarding religion... it felt and looked well thought out... and that plays a big role in making a fantasy world and its people far more believable.

Some of the religious concepts obviously shared similar aspects to real life religions.. but they had a suitable number of differences to never make me feel like "Ugggh... they're just masking the game with Religion X and trying to cram it down my throat!".  I never felt like the game was trying to preach to me.

In Mass Effect, I think religion played a more suitably appropriate diminished role. In the sense that it seems more believable to me (based on existing human behavior in the real world), that religious beliefs amidst humans would decrease over the centuries.

That's not to say Mass Effect needs to or should make humans in the game world atheists... but the fact it has an apparent diminished capacity on humanity seems very believable to me. Obviously there is room to add small religious groups or even cults - but such people would theoretically be a small group of the human race.

The fact that religion doesn't permeate nearly all aspects of human life in ME seems appropriate to the theme and setting. In dragon age, it seemed appropriate for religion to play a large and important role in the lives of all people... but not so much in a futuristic sci-fi game.

Adding religions to aliens is a great way to add flavor and make them stand out or be unique beyond just their alien physical appearance. The Hannar are a good example of how Mass Effect used religion for an alien species... they believe the Protheans to be gods and worship them because their homeworld is littered with Prothean artifacts. So naturally throughout their development, the Hannar came to see the Protheans as gods because they could create such unfathomable wonderous things.

I think it's a good idea to add religious themes to aliens or even to groups of humanity.. it adds diversity and opens up new possible side plots to explore. Moral choices and decisions can come into play with religious-based quests as well.. especially when these skirt into gray areas that are complex and not cut and dry right or wrong.

I say by all means, use religion as a supporting device in games.

Modifié par Hathur, 21 janvier 2010 - 01:44 .

[atheelogos]

poisonoustea wrote...

Guys, if you're feeding the troll he'll get the thread locked and he'll be very, very satisfied.

QFT

[Yojimboo]

Willowhugger wrote...

To actually get into a deep topic of religion in Mass Effect.

Do we want religious questions in Mass Effect 2?

Shepard dies and rises from the Grave, so to speak.

That's got to open a can of existential questions, even if you play him as a die hard atheist.

Doesn't it?

Why would it? They basically reconstruct him, trough the means of science. It would throw allot more questions to the religion fraktion.

[Medhia Nox]

RyuKazuha -



I'm envious. I have to suffer with "rogue scholar".



Though, I have to say - it really throws people off when I start talking about things they've never even heard of. Suddenly - the "stupid" guy with no college degree is stumping them. *Shrugs*



Ahh well.

[OldSchoolChicken]

Willowhugger wrote...

To actually get into a deep topic of religion in Mass Effect.

Do we want religious questions in Mass Effect 2?

Shepard dies and rises from the Grave, so to speak.

That's got to open a can of existential questions, even if you play him as a die hard atheist.

Doesn't it?

I don't think Bioware could pass up the chance to have religion in it; they try so hard to make it a believable world in a social sense that religion would have to play a part.  Religion can be a huge motivator, and without proper motivations behind a characters actions, they hardly seem believable.  Money and power being among other chief examples of stock motivation, I don't think those alone would make a good universe.

[NICKjnp]

atheelogos wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

Mr. Gerbz wrote...

The more advanced a species becomes, the more people of that species realize there is not some invisible guy they can blame for everything.

Religion is part of the human pysche.  It is our way of understanding the universe...

I could have sworn science was our way of understanding the universe, but I may have been mistaken . lol

better wording would have been "our place in the" rather than "the".

So hopefully this is better for you:  Religion is part of the human psyche.  It is our way of understanding our place in the universe.

Yes I see what you mean. I think I wrote something like that in one of these post.... good luck finding it though. lol
I would also like to add that Philosophy can be a proper substitute in that reguard.

Theology and Existentialism are part of Philosophy.

[atheelogos]

Borschtbeet wrote...

Personally I find philosophy to be a bunch of nonsense. All it is is the pursuit of truth of things which are all completely subjective.

In other words, there is no point.

Dude your really not contributing to the conversation here. And I thought you said you were leaving?

[FoFoZem]

This thread...is awesome. Love debate threads.



But I will not delve into secularism or organized religion because I would get too fumes.



I think Mass Effect handled religion decently. I honestly wish that they had expanded it just a bit more.

I like being able to decide how you view religion, but I think there should be more religious people around your travels. Or some mention of religion once and a while.

Sure sometimes we get the asari "thank the maker" or the occasional in-vein "God," but it would make the universe much more believable to me if there were more zealously devout people who forced the religion on you. And some who would lose respect for you if you hinted that you believe in a deity.



Having an in-game character preach a religion is not forcing the player to baptize himself and repent for his sins, it simply gives a universe of trillions of residents more depth.



I would like BioWare to expand on just how much religion has changed with extra-terrestrial contact. There was a blip of mention in the Codex I think, but I would like to see an extra-solar Christianity.

[Yojimboo]

OldSchoolChicken wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

To actually get into a deep topic of religion in Mass Effect.

Do we want religious questions in Mass Effect 2?

Shepard dies and rises from the Grave, so to speak.

That's got to open a can of existential questions, even if you play him as a die hard atheist.

Doesn't it?

I don't think Bioware could pass up the chance to have religion in it; they try so hard to make it a believable world in a social sense that religion would have to play a part.  Religion can be a huge motivator, and without proper motivations behind a characters actions, they hardly seem believable.  Money and power being among other chief examples of stock motivation, I don't think those alone would make a good universe.

How about simple morals? And no, morals aren't mutual exclusive to religous people.

[Willowhugger]

Why would it? They basically reconstruct him, trough the means of science. It would throw allot more questions to the religion fraktion.

I'm not sure.  A huge debate in an atheist science fiction discussion group I had friends in was made over transporters in Star Trek and the cloning process in the Sixth Day.  Basically, they questioned whether a human reduced to particles like happens on Star Trek and reconstructed was still "you."  Without a soul, the question of identity was much more pronounced in their opinion.

But yes, I hope there's nightmares during your "ressurection."

Like a Near-Death experience, with no real answers.

Modifié par Willowhugger, 21 janvier 2010 - 01:45 .

[RyuKazuha]

OldSchoolChicken wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

To actually get into a deep topic of religion in Mass Effect.

Do we want religious questions in Mass Effect 2?

Shepard dies and rises from the Grave, so to speak.

That's got to open a can of existential questions, even if you play him as a die hard atheist.

Doesn't it?

I don't think Bioware could pass up the chance to have religion in it; they try so hard to make it a believable world in a social sense that religion would have to play a part.  Religion can be a huge motivator, and without proper motivations behind a characters actions, they hardly seem believable.  Money and power being among other chief examples of stock motivation, I don't think those alone would make a good universe.

Well, after all it's not where, but how. Even if I'd be a Prof since years, i'd hopefully figure, i'm not the one who holds the truth in his mind. Since my view on the world isn't quite that of an optimist, i allways hope there's someone who gets the best of me (an optimist at best, otherwise, well... not so funny)

Edit: However, the pace of the debate is to much for me to get along with right now, it's about 3am here and i think i should go to sleep, even if this discussion really is exiting.

Modifié par RyuKazuha, 21 janvier 2010 - 01:48 .

[Willowhugger]

I think the Reapers have a good Satanic edge to them.



I like that while they COULD just be AI, they might also be something more. Like beings that really do have no origin or beginning from the dawn of time.

[OldSchoolChicken]

Yojimboo wrote...

OldSchoolChicken wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

To actually get into a deep topic of religion in Mass Effect.

Do we want religious questions in Mass Effect 2?

Shepard dies and rises from the Grave, so to speak.

That's got to open a can of existential questions, even if you play him as a die hard atheist.

Doesn't it?

I don't think Bioware could pass up the chance to have religion in it; they try so hard to make it a believable world in a social sense that religion would have to play a part.  Religion can be a huge motivator, and without proper motivations behind a characters actions, they hardly seem believable.  Money and power being among other chief examples of stock motivation, I don't think those alone would make a good universe.

How about simple morals? And no, morals aren't mutual exclusive to religous people.

Morals could be a motivator too, but is every question truly a moral question?  Can a question have religious implications without moral ones? Religions usually deal with some sort of salvation of ones soul, or at least the soul in general, usually by presenting a method of how to live, with the "ends" being the motivation.  Morals alone go on a more case by case basis, and because of that difference the overall character motivation might be different.  One has a long term goal, the other uses morals on a case by case basis, therefore the two would probably ultimately end up in different circumstances.

The case by case morals type person might be another option for motivation however, true.