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[Tirigon]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Kelrek wrote...

as education, science, and knowledge continue to grow, religion will diminish until it's nothing more than Greek myths.

Actually, the opposite is the case.

Athiests argued that the universe is eternal up until 1992 when the observations of the Hubble telescope and COBE sattelite proved the universe had a beginning.

Moreover, the laws of thermodynamcis make it clear the universe could not produce itself out of absolute nothing without a cause

The first cause had to be immaterial, timeless, spaceless, self-existant,  and intelligent. The same qualities that the Bible ascribes to God.

You are free to be an atheist. But don't pretend that science in any way backs up atheism becasue it simply does not.

I was hoping that the human race would have progressed from believing magical fairytales by the year 2100 whatever... Everything is based around science, yet there are still people in the universe who don't believe in facts and the truth. Would be nice to set Ashley straight, and get her to read a science textbook...

Yes, the delusional ranting fary tales of anti-theistic atheists can be quite laughable.

You know, it might be ignorant to say "God is a lie". But as far as we know there is NO god, so I think it is better to assume there is none. Should science ever find out there is a god, I will change my attitude. But as long as there is no proof I won´t belief in one, that simple.

You say that things about the Universe that aren´t known so far are a proof for god. That´s first Century a.D. thinking.
2000 years ago theists said: "We can´t explain thunder, so Zeus must throw thunderbolts! Gotcha! We know!"
Today´s theists say: "We can´t explain how the universe / life / whatever came into existence, so GOD must have done it! We know!"
Same stupid way of thinking.

[TheNecroFiend]

Murmakun wrote...

Kelrek wrote...

Actually, the opposite is the case.

Athiests argued that the universe is eternal up until 1992 when the observations of the Hubble telescope and COBE sattelite proved the universe had a beginning.

Moreover, the laws of thermodynamcis make it clear the universe could not produce itself out of absolute nothing without a cause

The first cause had to be immaterial, timeless, spaceless, self-existant,  and intelligent. The same qualities that the Bible ascribes to God.

You are free to be an atheist. But don't pretend that science in any way backs up atheism becasue it simply does not.

Just because we don't know how it happened, does not mean god made it happen....this is how religion began, to try to explain things that we didn't understand.

That's how you THINK religion began.


To the OP: From my personal christian point of view I have no problem with religion or lack thereof in games. It is afterall just a game.

I would like to add that if religion IS added, it should fit the overall scheme of things.

If you look at past civilizations and their specific mythologies you will see that dieties where used to explain how the world worked.

[Deflagratio]

It has to do with what context it is in the game. In Dragon Age, there is definitely the "Dark Ages" kind of feel. Where religion permeated every aspect of society. But such an approach in Mass Effect, for example, would be unwise.

[Riona45]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I'm not sure if it's been brought up already, but how do players here feel about the way religion was handled in Dragon Age: Origins--a fictional monotheism which could very easily be compared to real-world religions?

I was perfectly fine with it.  It was interesting but also mostly incidental to the main plot, and on top of that I wasn't forced to play a character who believed in the Chantry's teachings, or those any of the other mentioned religions--the Chantry was dominant but they weren't the only ones who had an explanation for things.  Also, not all religions in the game were monotheistic--not only did the Dalish elves have a pantheon of gods, but the human barbarians of the region (like the Chasind) did as well.

Modifié par Riona45, 21 janvier 2010 - 07:17 .

[mortimoo]

the only time religion actually annoys me is when ppl walk upto me in the street and tell me everything about me is wrong and that i should burn forever in eternal torture and agony for it...then they hand me a lil business card with a prayer on it an say "so...will i see you at church on sunday?"



come to think of it...thats only ever happened with christians, i have never been spoken to like that by a rabi or a buddhist monk or any representative of any other faith other than christian...thats kinda interesting now that i think about it :|

[Dethateer]

@Mortimoo
Incidentally, christianity happens to be responsible for most of the horrible stuff that happened during the middle ages. Not saying the muslims just sat there and were the innocents, but Jehova's servants did more crap, and still do. All while conviniently forgetting that Jesus only wanted everyone to be nice to each other.

Modifié par Dethateer, 21 janvier 2010 - 07:21 .

[Awesome Helmet]

the bible was made to explain things at the time that were unexplainable. now we have science to answer all those questions. most of whats in the bible seems so ridiculous and out dated and add to that what we know about life because of what science has now proved. the bible is just a book, same like the ones made by dr sues or the one i wrote in junior high school.





yes, im comparing the bible to one of my junior high school english papers.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Dethateer wrote...

@Mortimoo
Incidentally, christianity happens to be responsible for most of the horrible stuff that happened during the middle ages. Not saying the muslims just sat there and were the innocents, but Jehova's servants did more crap, and still do. All while conviniently forgetting that Jesus only wanted everyone to be nice to each other.

Actually, that is untrue. I'm not Catholic and don't presume to defend all the the crusades but certainly the first crusades were in response to Musims invading predominately Christian lands.
 
In the past 100 years atheists cush as Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Lenin, ect have been responsible for the deaths of over 250 million people. Far, far more than all other religions combined for all of recorded history. Atheism is a dangerous religion indeed when it gains political power.

Of course, no person who is a real Christin hates or murders anyone. 
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

It is interesting how in any discussion of religion in a game setting anti-theistic atheists always bring their hatered for religion into the discussion and misrepresent history.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 21 janvier 2010 - 07:47 .

[Riona45]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

 
In the past 100 years atheists cush as Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Lenin, ect have been responsible for the deaths of over 250 million people. Far, far more than all other religions combined for all of recorded history. Atheism is a dangerous religion indeed when it gains political power.

Of course, no person who is a real Christin hates or murders anyone. 
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

LOL.  The Hilter/Stalin card, the "atheism is a religion" card, and the No True Scotsman fallacy all in one post.

I call "Poe's Law" on this one.

Modifié par Riona45, 21 janvier 2010 - 07:46 .

[Dethateer]

ATHEISM IS NOT A MOTHER****ING RELIGION, YOU GODDAMNED IDIOT!
No, seriously, HOW MANY ****ING times do you morons have to be told?
IT IS THE LACK OF religion.
Also, those crimes weren't done in the NAME of atheism, unlike the crusades/inquisition. Oh, yeah, and forgetting Hitler, much, are we?
WHY, how could I ever forget about your glorious double standards? Of course Hitler wasn't a real xtian! But Mao/Stalin obviously did all they did in the name of atheism, right? Because we humans don't have empathy, and we need your **** of a genocidal, petty god to tell us not to kill!

Modifié par Dethateer, 21 janvier 2010 - 07:57 .

[Riona45]

Dethateer wrote...

ATHEISM IS NOT A MOTHER****ING RELIGION, YOU GODDAMNED IDIOT!
No, seriously, HOW MANY ****ING times do you morons have to be told?
IT IS THE LACK OF religion.
Also, those crimes weren't done in the NAME of atheism, unlike the crusades/inquisition. Oh, yeah, and forgetting Hitler, much, are we?

Relax, like I said it's probably just an over-the-top parody.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Tirigon wrote...

You know, it might be ignorant to say "God is a lie". But as far as we know there is NO god, so I think it is better to assume there is none. Should science ever find out there is a god, I will change my attitude. But as long as there is no proof I won´t belief in one, that simple.

You say that things about the Universe that aren´t known so far are a proof for god. That´s first Century a.D. thinking.
2000 years ago theists said: "We can´t explain thunder, so Zeus must throw thunderbolts! Gotcha! We know!"
Today´s theists say: "We can´t explain how the universe / life / whatever came into existence, so GOD must have done it! We know!"
Same stupid way of thinking.

Atheists always love to call everyone else stupid but it their own irrational religion that is stupid.

The laws of thermodynamics are very clear that the universe could not have produced itself. Feel free to reject science if you wish.

You claim future science will prove the universe could produce itself out of absolute nothing without a cause. You are entitled to your faith. But curent science is on the side of thesim and and shows atheism to be irrational.

The atheists up till 1992 who claimed the universe is eternal were certainly proven wrong and the theistic position that the univese had a beginning was proven correct. :happy:

[Dethateer]

Hey, Wiz. What about god, huh? How did he come into existence?
Also, if atheism is a religion, what's our church?








(@Riona, that doesn't mean I can't have a bit of fun, now, does it?)

Modifié par Dethateer, 21 janvier 2010 - 07:57 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Riona45 wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

 
In the past 100 years atheists cush as Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Lenin, ect have been responsible for the deaths of over 250 million people. Far, far more than all other religions combined for all of recorded history. Atheism is a dangerous religion indeed when it gains political power.

Of course, no person who is a real Christin hates or murders anyone. 
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

LOL.  The Hilter/Stalin card, the "atheism is a religion" card, and the No True Scotsman fallacy all in one post.

I call "Poe's Law" on this one.

The simple FACT is the biggest mass murderers in history have been atheists. I pointed out Stalin and atheist kin merely because an anti-Christian made ludicrous claims about Christianity and the middle ages. Atheists love to point fingers at other religions while haveing their own closet stuffed to overflowing with skeletons.

Atheism is a religion according to the Supreme Courr and the 7th District Court. Google it. Furthur, anyone saying "God does not exist" is a statment of faith because there is no proof God does not exist.

And it is the New Testament that defines who is a Chrsitian and who is not. Your "no true Scotsman fallacy" clam has no merrit. The New Testament is the authoritative doctrine of Christianity and it clearly says noone who murders is a Christian.

[Dethateer]

Hate to point this out, but the burden of proof lies on the one making the positive claim. You claim there is a god.
Prove it. I don't have to rely on faith to know he doesn't exist, until you can prove to me he's real.
Oh, yeah, and you're still ignoring me. Stalin and Mao's crimes had nothing to do with religion. They had everything to do with power, however.

Modifié par Dethateer, 21 janvier 2010 - 08:02 .

[Riona45]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
 Your "no true Scotsman fallacy" clam has no merrit. 

 
I'm sorry sir, I don't have any clams on me, and it wouldn't bother me if they had no "merrit" since I'm not sure what that is.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Dethateer wrote...

ATHEISM IS NOT A MOTHER****ING RELIGION, YOU GODDAMNED IDIOT!
No, seriously, HOW MANY ****ING times do you morons have to be told?

Are you capable of carrying on a civil discussion or like most anti-theists is all you have insults and misrepresentations?

Hey, Wiz. What about god, huh? How did he come into existence?
Also, if atheism is a religion, what's our church?

The US courts have said atheism is a religion and atheists take things on faith that they can't prove. Religion.

You don't have to meet in a church building to belong to a religion.

God is not matter or energy and thus is not subject to the laws of thermodynamics. God is a spirit.

It is obvious there could not be an infinite regression of causes. The first cause, the uncaused cause, had to be immaterial, timeless, spaceless, self-existant, and intelligent. God.

[AllenShepard]

In mass effect, handle just like you did with Ashley. A monotheistic religion is modern and w/o specifics isn't really offensive.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Dethateer wrote...

Hate to point this out, but the burden of proof lies on the one making the positive claim. You claim there is a god.
Prove it. I don't have to rely on faith to know he doesn't exist, until you can prove to me he's real.
Oh, yeah, and you're still ignoring me. Stalin and Mao's crimes had nothing to do with religion. They had everything to do with power, however.

Your claim that the atheist tyrants had nothing to do with atheism is laughable and shows your ignorance of history.

Google "The Leauge of Militant Atheists." They assisted Stalin with his goal of stamping out religion in the USSR within 5 years. They failed, in cause you don't know. They confiscated Bibles, made Bibles illegal, burned churches, confiscated church property, murdered milliions.

Almost all people who have ever lived  have believed in a diety. So atheism is the deviant belief and has the burden of proof.

But I presented evidence of the existence of God. Observations that proove the universe is not eternal and the laws of thermodynamics that say the universe.

So far you have presented not one thing for evidence that God does not exist. Nothing. Nada. Zilchola.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 21 janvier 2010 - 08:14 .

[mortimoo]

Dethateer is right on that one i have to agree, its not the opposite person in the debate that needs to jusitfy your claims, it is you who needs to justify your own claims.



atheism is not a religion either it is a belief yes that i will grant you as there is no absolute evidence to show that there are no gods, no higher power and no religion so to call it a religion in itself is a contradiction on what it is, atheism has no church of any kind, no idols or particular moral guidelines, no ceremonies or traditions, it is in no way a religion itself. but in turn there is no absolute evidence to show that there IS a god either so quite frankly there is no argument here, it is a stalemate and it will be until such a time as irrefutable proof is shown either way.

[Dethateer]

I'd be a lot more civil if I didn't hear the same retarded thing over and over and over. Lack of evidence for something doesn't mean that it exists, and therefore would require faith to NOT believe in. That's what you're saying. That god exists because there's no evidence against him.
Also, nice way of dodging the question. Newsflash: spirits? They aren't real either. Your consciousness is just a collection of chemical reactions and electrical impulses.
As far as matter goes, it cannot be created or destroyed, only converted into energy. And there is absolutely no reason why energy (or matter) would require a beginning.
[damned typos]

Modifié par Dethateer, 21 janvier 2010 - 08:16 .

[TheNecroFiend]

Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour,  off is a tv station and not collecting stamps is a hobby.

[Riona45]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Atheism is a religion according to the Supreme Courr and the 7th District Court. Google it. 

I just did.  I couldn't find what you are talking about.  Do you have any links?

Modifié par Riona45, 21 janvier 2010 - 08:17 .

[Riona45]

Dethateer wrote...


(@Riona, that doesn't mean I can't have a bit of fun, now, does it?)

True, true.  Have your fun.

[Jzadek]

Tirigon wrote...



Moreover, the laws of thermodynamcis make it clear the universe could not produce itself out of absolute nothing without a cause

The problem with this is that before a universe NOTHING could have existed, not time, not space, not gravity, not energy, so therefore not thermodynamical laws. Sorry about that.