557 réponses à ce sujet

[handheld]

mewarmo990 wrote...

For me, religion in videogames is fine as long as views aren't forced on the player. It wouldn't make commercial sense to do that anyway, unless you were marketing to a particular demographic.

ME didn't make more than a couple references to it when Ashley talks about her faith, and in the codex where it stated that some religious groups opposed gene therapy. The Codex entry is of no consequence but as BW probably intended, I felt that it added depth to her character and a very traditionally "human" perspective in the context of humanity's entry into the galactic community.

Handheld also found the codex entries to be great Handheld loves it when his games have mini dictionaries of there own that Handheld can delve into.

Handheld himself just recently picked up dragon age the calling and he must say that he is thorougly enjoying.

Handheld also knows that ashley's religion was nto touched on alot but Handheld himself thinks that her views were actually quite interesting as she believed that there had to be a god due to everything she has witnessed and all the life she has seen while in space.

[Kriselia]

Also, figured it might be worth noting a cultural standpoint in this conversation.

There's some vast differences between countries and cultures when it comes to what kinds of religious topics are acceptable. For example, in Finland religion is considered a very personal issue, along with, say, sexuality and politics, and bringing it up in small talk is widely considered really inappropriate.

So if a game went into a moderate seeming amount of detail concerning religion, there could still very well be people who'd find it offensive and overbearing. Mass Effect handled that nicely because you could just pretty much bypass the religions without having to give Shep an opinion.

[handheld]

Kriselia wrote...

Also, figured it might be worth noting a cultural standpoint in this conversation.
There's some vast differences between countries and cultures when it comes to what kinds of religious topics are acceptable. For example, in Finland religion is considered a very personal issue, along with, say, sexuality and politics, and bringing it up in small talk is widely considered really inappropriate.
So if a game went into a moderate seeming amount of detail concerning religion, there could still very well be people who'd find it offensive and overbearing. Mass Effect handled that nicely because you could just pretty much bypass the religions without having to give Shep an opinion.

Handheld is also aware of how Finloadians feel about religion as Handhelds guitar stealing ex is from finloadia and she explained as much to handheld. Handheld knows that developers like bioware are willing to take risks Handheld however believes alot of other game companies are worried about how there game will be percieved so they take the safer route and attempt to minimize it as much as possible.

[Emperor Mars]

Good question handheld....
First some background on me..

Please allow me to introduce myself  I am a man of wealth and taste and I too am Catholic, but do not like to have religion...or lack there of, shoved down my throat, nor do I shove mine down other people throats.

That being said, religion in games add to charaters in many, many ways. Take for example Ashley (I dont know why poeple call her a zealot, it was two mentions of god and faith, once on ship, and another on noveria) these converstions add to her character, other races, such as the Asari also have religous views, though these are not often touched upon. I think the salarains believe in a wheel of life and reincarnation or something like that.

At the same time, tack religion to a mad man and you have a formula for insane zealot villian.

Though companies should tread very carefully when handling religion of any kind, if Ubisoft had said in assassins creed II (whos final boss fight I found really entertaining..keeping in mind Im catholic) that all religous people are mindless zombies, they would have had a riot on their hands.....at the same time, in say he upcoming Dantes Inferno that all those who dont believe the christian views would burn in hell, again they would have a freakin riot to deal with.



TLDR version---its all about portrayal....peoples views on religion will change based on the personality of the character and the mood trying to be set by them.


Also, I had to put the rolling stones bit at the beginning...I just had too:devil:

[handheld]

Emperor Mars wrote...

Good question handheld....
First some background on me..

Please allow me to introduce myself  I am a man of wealth and taste and I too am Catholic, but do not like to have religion...or lack there of, shoved down my throat, nor do I shove mine down other people throats.

That being said, religion in games add to charaters in many, many ways. Take for example Ashley (I dont know why poeple call her a zealot, it was two mentions of god and faith, once on ship, and another on noveria) these converstions add to her character, other races, such as the Asari also have religous views, though these are not often touched upon. I think the salarains believe in a wheel of life and reincarnation or something like that.

At the same time, tack religion to a mad man and you have a formula for insane zealot villian.

Though companies should tread very carefully when handling religion of any kind, if Ubisoft had said in assassins creed II (whos final boss fight I found really entertaining..keeping in mind Im catholic) that all religous people are mindless zombies, they would have had a riot on their hands.....at the same time, in say he upcoming Dantes Inferno that all those who dont believe the christian views would burn in hell, again they would have a freakin riot to deal with.



TLDR version---its all about portrayal....peoples views on religion will change based on the personality of the character and the mood trying to be set by them.


Also, I had to put the rolling stones bit at the beginning...I just had too:devil:

Handheld thinks you made this post with class and Handheld only has high respect for this post.

Handheld also spoke of dante's inferno with handhelds cohort as the epic poem itself is steeped in religion.

Handheld also knows that there were already people upset about the game and Handheld has found a link to the article he read.


http://gamesblog.ugo...-to-hell-really

[PiercedMonk]

Generally I don't give religion much thought untless it's right in front of me. Unfortunately it's right in front of me all too often.



That said, I don't have any strong objections to religion in entertainment media, so long as it's implemented in a way that isn't obnoxious or ignorant. It starts to bother me a bit if the premise of the book or game or what have you relies upon a real world religion actually being real, though less so with fantasy religions in fantasy settings.

[Badpie]

I don't mind religion in video games at all. Again it might be annoying if there is clearly some agenda trying to get you, the player to believe one thing or another but I don't know of any game that has ever done that in regards to religion.  The media and entertainment in general tends to portray all walks of spirituality poorly (as a Pagan I look at movies like The Craft and shudder with embarassment, for example).

I think the people who have a problem with the mention of religion in video games are the people who are not comfortable with their own beliefs and spiritual ideas. Why shouldn't it be there? As in real life, characters in video games are people with differing viewpoints, morals and ideals.

It was nice in ME to be able to decide whether or not your Shepard was a spiritual kind of person, and that fits the kind of "this is your Shepard" thing really well (and this happened in DA too). Then take Assassins Creed or something, where the main player character clearly has a predetermined set of religious beliefs. And that's okay too, because that fits that character.

I also like the way Ash's religious views were handled in the game. She never came out and said that she was specifically anything (though I would guess some form of Christian based on her idea of Heaven and what not) and she didn't try to force anything on your character. She simply said that it was difficult to look at the universe around her and not believe in something.

I've never really understood why some people get so touchy about religion in general. Unless someone is trying to force you to believe something or you are trying to force them to believe something it shouldn't be an issue.

And that's my one semi-coherent response for the day.

Modifié par Badpie, 19 janvier 2010 - 03:04 .

[handheld]

Badpie wrote...

I don't mind religion in video games at all. Again it might be annoying if there is clearly some agenda trying to get you, the player to believe one thing or another but I don't know of any game that has ever done that in regards to religion.

I think the people who have a problem with the mention of religion in video games are the people who are not comfortable with their own beliefs and spiritual ideas. Why shouldn't it be there? As in real life, characters in video games are people with differing viewpoints, morals and ideals.

It was nice in ME to be able to decide whether or not your Shepard was a spiritual kind of person, and that fits the kind of "this is your Shepard" thing really well (and this happened in DA too). Then take Assassins Creed or something, where the main player character clearly has a predetermined set of religious beliefs. And that's okay too, because that fits that character.

I also like the way Ash's religious views were handled in the game. She never came out and said that she was specifically anything (though I would guess some form of Christian based on her idea of Heaven and what not) and she didn't try to force anything on your character. She simply said that it was difficult to look at the universe around her and not believe in something.

I've never really understood why some people get so touchy about religion in general. Unless someone is trying to force you to believe something or you are trying to force them to believe something it shouldn't be an issue.

And that's my one semi-coherent response for the day.

Handheld himsefl believes that some people get touchy about it because they themselves find it an uncomfortable topic to discuss as you have mentioned.

Handheld also thinks its a touchy subject because so many people have different view even people who claim the same faith also have different views and opinions on how it should be worshipped.

handhelds cohort was discussing how he is a bit uncomfortable with religion in games while he is not an ardent christian or fanatic he does have things that he does believe firmly and Handheld himself thinks thats what worries him is if say video game A- has a christian character in it he doesnt want that persons ideas to conflict with Handhelds cohorts.

handheld thinks it is mainly human nature that does this as no one person is ever the same in faith or opinion.

Modifié par handheld, 19 janvier 2010 - 03:06 .

[handheld]

Handheld does the bumping as he wishes to see more opinions.

[TheDove]

Handheld, long time fan.



My opinion coincides with your own, as it always does.



Handheld.

[purple_zebralemon]

tikalal wrote...

I'm fine with it as long as the religion of my character is not decided for me. I liked the opportunity to choose whether I was religious or atheist. I also thought that Ashley's religion added to her character.

Chose athiest by the way

This.

[MTMA15]

Well, Really I don't have anything against religion in games. Actually I feel that it gives the game a more realistic feel, after all on games with plenty of characters, it's highly unbelievable that they all follow the same religion or don't even talk bout it.
Everyone has the right to believe in what they want as long as it doesn't do harm to anyone.

The only thing I don't like is when some people want to prove that their belief is THE right one and insult other people if they think differently. I have a friend who is atheist, living in Brazil, this is somewhat a rarity, as we are a catholic nation on most part. I and most of my other friends are Catholic, but I myself am not sooo much. We try to avoid religious discussion when that guy is around because he starts insulting everyone who thinks differently of him... That's what I don't like.
But otherwise, I see no problem. And as long as a game doesn't try to do something like this, I'm fine with it. Not only games but every other form of media in reality.
Of course, this is my opinion. ^^

Modifié par MTMA15, 19 janvier 2010 - 08:31 .

[Medhia Nox]

I think that "Belief" is essential to any story worth telling. Now, most people express that Belief in a religion, so a story with some mention of religion (real ones or fantasy) seems far more grounded in a believable environment.



I really liked Ashley's mention of religion - for example. I responded that I did not mind her belief's and that I too believed in a deity.



A roleplaying game that had no mention of religion would seem to be missing something. Though - I believe the void would simply be filled with a Government Belief, Science as Religion, Commerce as Religion, etc.



People will always fill the void with some dogmatic code by which to conduct their lives. A code they will rarely, if ever, question - where superiors augment and dictate the code with an unusual language (be it religious ritual or Latin and Mathematics) - where laymen recieve the dogma and prostelytize on that dogma's behalf (and often believe that said dogma will provide all answers.)



----



What I would like to see, is a bit more variety. Get away from Christianity - the world is full of so many other religions with colorful tales of varied and interesting entities, events, and people.



A whole Fantasy game (or sci-fi!) based off the Mahabharata could be amazing.

[Naltair]

I don't mind and enjoy religious discussion in games as long as the player gets to choose their stance. As a spiritual person i usually choose to be religious in games not an extremist by any means but spiritual and accepting of the possibility. My Shepherd was religious or at least believed and I enjoyed that conversation with Ash immensely.



Even Liara is possibly religious with her, "By the Goddess" statements.

[SlySpy00]

I don't mind religion in videogames at all. If the player is given a choice for religion, that's fine. However, if the player is forced to have a certain religion, well, it depends on whether it fits the players character or not. In Shenmue (one of my all time favorite games), the main character is a buddhist living in japan, but its views are not forced on you at all. You can choose to pray at an altar every morning, but you don't have to. The main character is not heavily religious, despite being a buddhist.

[handheld]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I think that "Belief" is essential to any story worth telling. Now, most people express that Belief in a religion, so a story with some mention of religion (real ones or fantasy) seems far more grounded in a believable environment.

I really liked Ashley's mention of religion - for example. I responded that I did not mind her belief's and that I too believed in a deity.

A roleplaying game that had no mention of religion would seem to be missing something. Though - I believe the void would simply be filled with a Government Belief, Science as Religion, Commerce as Religion, etc.

People will always fill the void with some dogmatic code by which to conduct their lives. A code they will rarely, if ever, question - where superiors augment and dictate the code with an unusual language (be it religious ritual or Latin and Mathematics) - where laymen recieve the dogma and prostelytize on that dogma's behalf (and often believe that said dogma will provide all answers.)

----

What I would like to see, is a bit more variety. Get away from Christianity - the world is full of so many other religions with colorful tales of varied and interesting entities, events, and people.

A whole Fantasy game (or sci-fi!) based off the Mahabharata could be amazing.

What Handheld himself liked is that Ashley didnt explicitly say she was a christian only that she believed in god.

Handheld liked that she was religious without claiming herself as any of the major religions many know.

Handheld does agree that it adds depth Sometimes Handheld wonders if developers havent touched on it because they simply dont want to or if because they are simply worried that people will take it out of context.

Handheld also asks that if any of the devs Priestly,  or Woo, Handheld also wishes to hear your guy's opinions if you would be kind enough to drop by.

[Mal_Luck]

I chose the "everyone has a right to worship what they want" option. With my new Shepard I might explore the other options.



Personally, I'm an atheist. I don't mind religion as a whole, but certain bad eggs, organizations, and cults "ruin" it for me. That and I find that the concept that my life may be completely out of my hands is annoying. Destiny can kiss my ass. I remember recently arguing with my "fanatic" Christian friend that he claimed only Christians/Catholics would go to Heaven. When I brought up Judism, my favorite of all the Abrahamic religions, he tells me that because they don't believe in Jesus they are going to hell. This infuriated me so much, the idiocy of the statement... just... confounds me.



Of any religion I've read about, the only one that ever interested me was Buddhism. I find some Freethinking and Humanist movements interesting as well, but those aren't religions. Joss Whedon and George Carlin also had some views I found interesting. Now the mythology of Abrahamic fascinates me, I've always had a soft spot for stories about Angels and Demons, Good and Evil, etc.



But on the subject of Video Games and religion. It doesn't really bother me if it is implemented well. Take FFX for instance (although considering what the heroes do against the 'Yu Yevon religion', I may be biased). The book series The Dresden Files has another interesting take on religion, especially in books 5 and 10 (Death Masks and Small Favor, respectively).

[Br0th3rGr1mm]

My favorite Bioware religion was in Neverwinter Nights; Grimgnaw's Order of the Long Death. His worship of the Slient Lord always cracked me up (plus, he was helluva brawler when leveled up properly).  Actually, I think the Order of the Long Death already existed in AD&D lore, but Bioware certainly put a nice spin on it with a Dwarven Monk that worships Death.

Bringing actual modern religion into the game is a very touchy subject and I suspect Bioware will be very careful with that hot potato. I don't find it offensive either way, but there are certainly those out there that will (if given the chance...and I mean from both sides).

Modifié par Br0th3rGr1mm, 19 janvier 2010 - 09:05 .

[handheld]

Mal_Luck wrote...

I chose the "everyone has a right to worship what they want" option. With my new Shepard I might explore the other options.

Personally, I'm an atheist. I don't mind religion as a whole, but certain bad eggs, organizations, and cults "ruin" it for me. That and I find that the concept that my life may be completely out of my hands is annoying. Destiny can kiss my ass. I remember recently arguing with my "fanatic" Christian friend that he claimed only Christians/Catholics would go to Heaven. When I brought up Judism, my favorite of all the Abrahamic religions, he tells me that because they don't believe in Jesus they are going to hell. This infuriated me so much, the idiocy of the statement... just... confounds me.

Handhelds Cohorts was actually like this in the beginning as he came from a ardent christian family However after he got into an argument with his parents ( the argument which was about Him hanging out with Handheld himself since handheld has no claim to faith). He started to doubt his resolve a bit after hearing how cruel about it his parents were. His parents told Handhelds cohort that since i did not believe in Christ that he and i were going to hell, Handhelds cohort then told his parents that if his parents could not accept Handheld and love him as he is then  perhaps his parents should stop speaking to him.

Handheld was upset that he caused such a ruckus but glad that Handhelds cohort accepted handheld for who he is and not because of his choice in religion. Handhelds friend has since become more open minded after having a couple talks with his pastor Who himself was very open about religion and how believe.

Handheld thinks that some videogames take the right approach such as mass effect and Shenmue as another mentioned. These games both have religions of a different kind yet they dont attempt to force there beliefs upon the player which is a big plus in Handhelds book.

Handheld is curious to see how mass effect 2 will handle religion and if it will be more prominent in the second game as it could make for a great backround trait for characters.

[Mal_Luck]

Considering Thane is supposed to be very Religious, it could play an important role for those players, myself included, interested in the Thane character.

I'd like to meet one of the Turian Zen Buddhists mentioned in the codex, Find out more about the beliefs of the Quarians when we visit the Migrant Fleet, or the Asari faith when we visit Illium(sp?).

EDIT: As a side not, I saw what you mention about Ash never identifying which monotheistic God faith. I liked her before but I like her a bit more now. (crosses fingers for Judism if they identify her with one)

Modifié par Mal_Luck, 19 janvier 2010 - 09:14 .

[handheld]

Mal_Luck wrote...

Considering Thane is supposed to be very Religious, it could play an important role for those players, myself included, interested in the Thane character.

I'd like to meet one of the Turian Zen Buddhists mentioned in the codex, Find out more about the beliefs of the Quarians when we visit the Migrant Fleet, or the Asari faith when we visit Illium(sp?).

Handheld was under the impression that the quarians along with the turians Had a sort of ancestor type religion Handheld could be wrong though as Handheld is not all knowing as much as he would like to be.

Handheld also changed the title to a better one as Handhelds round 1 just wasn't catching enough eyes.

[Mal_Luck]

Quarians did believe in ancestor worship, but I believe most of them no longer do. Turians on the other hand believed in spirits, groups and places having a kind of power I guess. But Turians have freedom of religion so some follow the Asari faith while some have even become Zen Buddhists and Confucianists (is that the correct term?).

[MICHELLE7]

It seems games are leaning more towards realistic experiences these days...mirroring real life more and more. If they are going to create diverse characters I don't see how they can't include religion at some point just for variety's sake. Be kinda dull if all the characters believed the same way.

[Sharn01]

I am ok with religion and actually find a lot of them interesting. I have no problem with what people worship and feel they dont need to keep it private and may worship in front of me if they wish so long as they are not interfering in other people's lives because of it.



My self I was raised catholic, but have decided I do not care for organized religion in general as it gets to political for my taste, I also feel the bible should be viewed as a book of lessons to teach people to live good lives and not factual event's.



As far as Ashley in ME though, her religous stance made me dislike her more then I already did.

I did not really care for her character a lot and then when she made her bigoted comment's, it was even less, though I figured so long as she stayed professional its ok. Then she tells me she is religious and I was just floored. Either she thinks that the alien races are also gods children but should not be treated as equal and that is bad, or she thinks humans are god's children and are superior to all the other races. Either way I did not like what it revealed about her as a person.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Yet I disliked the entire Bible Adventure games that came out on the super nintendo,

Oh, you mean the unauthorized ripoffs like Super Noah's Ark 3D? Or what about the one where you can throw baby Moses in the water? Or Bible Buffet, the game about food trying to murder you that has nothing to do with the bible at all?

To be honest, you have to be some sort of psycho to like those horrible excuses for games. Or really really extremely devout, that you can look past the bad gameplay and graphics, and claim it's good just because it's ''about the bible''.