557 réponses à ce sujet

[jakl201]

Willowhugger wrote...

I honestly want some acknowledgment of religion in the Mass Effect universe. I always held Star Trek in contempt because it was an unrealistic and insulting location that somehow religion would disappear in 400 years. It's why I liked Babylon 5. It nicely acknowledged religious individuals existed alongside atheists in the future. So occasional nods to people attending Church or having religious beliefs would nice.

Also, we all became Commies in the future according to Star Trek.

[Willowhugger]

Pinkflamingo22 wrote...

I hope in the future religion is replaced by personal beliefs and spirtuality because no good comes from religion. Ever.

Religion is just another form of communal thought.  People thought that when religion got out of government, that people would act less crazy.  What we got was the communist purges of Stalin, Mao, ****s, and other crazy secular nuttiness.

People are just nuts period.

[RyuKazuha]

Pinkflamingo22 wrote...

I hope in the future religion is replaced by personal beliefs and spirtuality because no good comes from religion. Ever.

While I also dislike religious institutions, that quote is way to diffuse, to be agreed with. Maybe you want to make yourself clear in a somewhat more sophisticated manner?

[xsikal]

I was irritated by religion in Dragon Age... probably because I did feel it to be somewhat similar to real-world religion. By the same token, I tend to shy away from entirely fictional theocracies in games too, so it may just be a dislike for religion, in general. I think I'd have been happier if there were less obvious real world parallels, (or if religion in Dragon Age was less of a driving factor)

[GnusmasTHX]

handheld wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

handheld wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

handheld wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

As long as it's fair, I don't mind any portrayal of religion, sexuality or even political commentary in anything I watch or play.

I don't believe views can be 'forced' on any one. You take what you take from games, films and even books. Nothing more, nothing less.

Unless you're young, and especially prone to outside influence, but this is an M rated game, and that's an entirely different discussion.

Handheld himself believes that if you were to play a game where the main character attempted to preach his religion to the players Handheld thinks that would be an attempt to force its views down your throat.

Key word is ATTEMPT. The audience will take from it what it will, and it's ultimately the viewers choice whether or not things go down their throats... or forced anywhere... for a lack of a better phrase.

 Handheld has to otherwise he will miss out on a fun game.

Like you said, that's the players choice to play that game.

How would you consider this to be a fun game if it has aspects you dislike?

That's like saying I REALLY REALLY want to play Gran Turismo, but unfortunately there's racing in it. And that's the games fault.

Handheld thinks that by your logic Then Handheld shouldnt play a game because he dislikes certain elements of said game?

Handheld thinks if that were the case then alot of people wouldnt play mass effect 2 simply because they dont like the red veins.

Handheld is not going to not play a game simply because there is an element he doesnt like However if that element is constantly aiming to convert Handheld to something he doesnt want to be then it is effectively being forced down Handhelds throat.

How are you honestly comparing religious undertones or overtones to something as trivial as damage indicators? They're on two separate levels.

And again, you're not realizing that if you choose to play a game that has aspects you openly dislike, ignore them. It's not that hard.

By virtue of what you just said; people CAN get over the damage indicators and still enjoy the game. Just like you can purchase a game with heavy religious influences even though you don't like them, and still play it without being influenced by its subject matter. (Effectively blocking it from going down your throat.)

The question is why you would buy a game with aspects you openly disagree with. Especially when you're incapable of looking passed those things.

Your example isn't about buying a game with religious undertones, it's buying a religious game period. Which is pretty much the difference between a C.S Lewis book and the Bible.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 21 janvier 2010 - 12:06 .

[MentalKase]

I feel that it is an important part of the fictional universe that there would be different religons. Spiritual reality is a big part of basic human nature, and if a universe lacks it in one form or another (why are we here, and what happens when we die), people will have a hard time relating to the fictional universe on one level or another.

[Darth Sithari]

I think religion is something that should be expanded upon in games.



It's too bad that the only conduit through which we were exposed to it in Mass Effect was Ashley, a character many considered racist and unlikable. I enjoyed the dialogue option of finaly being able to say "Yes I believe" in a game. It's too bad there weren't other various types of people with whom we could discuss it. The ability to explore the beliefs of others and work your own faith into your character has a lot of potential. I hope that in the future, we get a better chance to see the varying sides of this complex issue.

[MICHELLE7]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I'm not sure if it's been brought up already, but how do players here feel about the way religion was handled in Dragon Age: Origins--a fictional monotheism which could very easily be compared to real-world religions?

It is interesting and engaging? Does it seem preachy or modeled too closely on a real-world religion? Did you even notice? Did you want to learn more about it?

It didn't seem preachy at all but in all honesty I found the Fade more interesting. 

And to keep it on topic for the forum: What kind of religion system do you think would fit in well with the Mass Effect universe? What role would a modern-day Earth religion deity play for a space-faring, alien-meeting human?

And thank you all for keeping it mature and professional. I appreciate that.

 I think that the way religion was handled in Mass Effect was fine...if it ain't broke don't fix it.



 

[Skalman91]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I'm not sure if it's been brought up already, but how do players here feel about the way religion was handled in Dragon Age: Origins--a fictional monotheism which could very easily be compared to real-world religions?

It is interesting and engaging? Does it seem preachy or modeled too closely on a real-world religion? Did you even notice? Did you want to learn more about it?

And to keep it on topic for the forum: What kind of religion system do you think would fit in well with the Mass Effect universe? What role would a modern-day Earth religion deity play for a space-faring, alien-meeting human?

And thank you all for keeping it mature and professional. I appreciate that.

The best kind of religious system in mass effect would be ATHEISM. yeah...
Religion is a bad idea, don't ruin mass effect by introducing it.

Besides being a racist, being religious is one of the reasons ashley always gets virmire'd.

/thread.

[phimseto]

I actually wish Bioware and other companies would take the time to hire a religious scholar if you are going to use religion in the game. It drove me crazy in Mass Effect because the one overtly religious character was also the one bigot in the party, which plays to so many false stereotypes about religion and faith.



I thought Dragon Age handled it decently, and I liked that it was such an important component. That being said, the anti-Maker zingers seemed to be a little more confidently written than the comments defending faith. A lot of times, it felt much easier to pick on Leliana and others than to agree or support them.

[T1l]

Stanley Woo wrote...

And to keep it on topic for the forum: What kind of religion system do you think would fit in well with the Mass Effect universe? What role would a modern-day Earth religion deity play for a space-faring, alien-meeting human?

    Religion in Mass Effect seems out of place to me. Ancestor worship I could understand, and the Turian concept of a group having a collective honour is also understandable, but full-blown “there is a God, but no one can see it, hear it, touch it, or has any evidence it exists – you just need to have faith” religions I find very difficult to comprehend. They’re illogical, and they seem unbecoming of space faring species.

    Geth revere the Reapers as gods; but they aren’t. Would a Geths collective belief in the Reapers constitute a religion? I suppose it would. Most religions are just a set of beliefs that help an individual or many individuals make sense of the universe; to try and understand purpose. Is science a religion?

[Daerog]

poisonoustea wrote...

That's Confucianism, it has nothing to do with confusion  and it's not a religion.

Ugh, I hate it when I misspell stuff, but w/e it's the internet, and thank you for correcting me on spelling and that it's not really a religion.

Skalman91 wrote...

The best kind of religious system in mass effect would be ATHEISM. yeah...
Religion is a bad idea, don't ruin mass effect by introducing it.

Besides being a racist, being religious is one of the reasons ashley always gets virmire'd.

/thread.

It's already been introduced. "Have peace in the embrace of the Goddess" or whatever Samara says is pretty religious. Also, codexes mention some of the major alien religions and some human religions that were adopted by aliens.
Killing people for what they believe is sad but it's your game, have fun!

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 21 janvier 2010 - 12:13 .

[Willowhugger]

    Religion in Mass Effect seems out of place to me. Ancestor worship I could understand, and the Turian concept of a group having a collective honour is also understandable, but full-blown “there is a God, but no one can see it, hear it, touch it, or has any evidence it exists – you just need to have faith” religions I find very difficult to comprehend. They’re illogical, and they seem unbecoming of space faring species.

I don't comprehend that.  The universe is a place where people have come into existence, seek meaning, and have sentience to explore a universe that operates under particular laws.  For many of us religious individuals, the fundamental ordered nature of reality is the best proof of the divine.  It's an affirmation of reality to ascribe it a creator.

Whether you do or don't is your own business but I wonder how exactly people automatically assume the religious are looney toons.

[Willowhugger]

I may be biased though. I have to deal with a lot of religious bigots in my life, who I feel the need to correct are giving the faithful a bad name. Then, when I go to my favorite hobby, I end up having to deal with people who treat my faith as if it somehow is against my hobby.



It's a no win situation.

[MentalKase]

Anything that can't be proven and has to be taken on some level of faith is a religon.



God \\ No God, Creation or Evolution. Even Philosophy.



There will always be something that lacks a scientific explanation and to think that sceince can explain everything is being slightly navie. I believe that any intellegant race knows that while the quest for answers is a noble, but the belief that one knows all is foolishness.

[atheelogos]

Willowhugger wrote...

Pinkflamingo22 wrote...

I hope in the future religion is replaced by personal beliefs and spirtuality because no good comes from religion. Ever.

Religion is just another form of communal thought.  People thought that when religion got out of government, that people would act less crazy.

Have you not heard of western secularism? Its helped the west immensely. Your confusing communism and secularism. They're two very different things.

[Skalman91]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

poisonoustea wrote...

That's Confucianism, it has nothing to do with confusion  and it's not a religion.

Ugh, I hate it when I misspell stuff, but w/e it's the internet, and thank you for correcting me on spelling and that it's not really a religion.

Skalman91 wrote...

The best kind of religious system in mass effect would be ATHEISM. yeah...
Religion is a bad idea, don't ruin mass effect by introducing it.

Besides being a racist, being religious is one of the reasons ashley always gets virmire'd.

/thread.

It's already been introduced. "Have peace in the embrace of the Goddess" or whatever Samara says is pretty religious. Also, codexes mention some of the major alien religions and some human religions that were adopted by aliens.
Killing people for what they believe is sad but it's your game, have fun!

Yeah, well the asari can believe in any religion they want to, I couldn't really care. Most of the siari belief seems pretty harmless at least. And while Liara said "oh the goddess" or somesuch on numerous occasions, it doesn't really mean she's religious, using goddess as an expression might be as common among the asari as "oh my god" is for humans? And "oh my god" is still pretty common for non-religious people to say, just because it's so commonly used in the english language.

And yes, I didn't kill Ashely just because she's religious, but the fact that she was, certainly didn't improve my view of her.

[Medhia Nox]

And how has Western secularism "helped" exactly?



I can point out its many flaws, but that's just going to start a conflict on here. So, I'll take the position of listener. I'm curious atheelogos - how has western secularism made us better?

[CoffeePrince]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I'm not sure if it's been brought up already, but how do players here feel about the way religion was handled in Dragon Age: Origins--a fictional monotheism which could very easily be compared to real-world religions?

It is interesting and engaging? Does it seem preachy or modeled too closely on a real-world religion? Did you even notice? Did you want to learn more about it?

And to keep it on topic for the forum: What kind of religion system do you think would fit in well with the Mass Effect universe? What role would a modern-day Earth religion deity play for a space-faring, alien-meeting human?

And thank you all for keeping it mature and professional. I appreciate that.

Hmmm.  The idea wasn't bad.  Hopefully, the religious change that Thane undergoes isn't like Leliana. 

[Willowhugger]

[quote]
[/quote]Have you not heard of western secularism? Its helped the west immensely. Your confusing communism and secularism. They're two very different things.
[/quote]

Western...secularism....helped society.

Right.

No offense, but the secularist movement really never gained much of a toe-hold in the United States of America and neither it or Europe particularly became free of conflict.  Even the seperation of Church and State that was reaffirmed was actually forwarded as much by religious individuals who wanted the government OUT of ITS affairs as much as religion out of government.

Technological advancement participates apace irregardless of religion.  Islamic society, Chinese, and of course modern American (which is distinctly religious) all show its independent of religious thought.  Secular philosophies have given rise to rampant racism, classism, and other matters are certainly no innately better than religious ones.

I'm sorry, I'm just not terribly impressed with the school of thought that claims that secularism is innately better than mysticism.  Then again, as a technology loving pantheist, I may be an odd choice for this discussion.

[NICKjnp]

I thought it worked well. I liked that there wasn't really a statement that one was right over the other... only that these were the things people believed in. As a person who has a BA in religion I found it tactful but sometimes a little preachy against certain real world religions.



As for Mass Effect. I think that it would be most interesting to have several religions in the game. It would be nice to see a reference to most modern day religions. To think that religion would all of a suddent dissapear in 200 years is a little far fetched. Many world religions are close two thousand years old (Hinduism and Judaism are close to three). Allowing players to choose what they want to believe would be nice (and fit in with the rpg setting nicely).

[Skalman91]

[Willowhugger]

Because thinking about a problem and focusing is such a bad idea.



But we're moving away from Mass Effect.

Honestly, I didn't like the Chantry.  It just seemed too much a stereotypical Catholic Church analogue.  The Catholic Church has gotten enough flak for the Dark Ages I think.  I wanted to know more about Sten's crazy hyper-religious Communist people.