557 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia Nox]

Skalman91, is that necissary?



Honestly - how do people disrespect something and believe themselves to be superior all in the same breath.

[Eristik]

I'm fine with it as long as it's not pushed upon me as a gamer and you could always chose the I don't believe in god option which was a nice touch.

[T1l]

MentalKase wrote...

There will always be something that lacks a scientific explanation and to think that sceince can explain everything is being slightly navie. I believe that any intellegant race knows that while the quest for answers is a noble, but the belief that one knows all is foolishness.

Empirical facts are hard to question.

What I mean by a space faring species is: For a species to be space faring, they would need to have a culture that harbours and nurtures science, mathematics and empirical data. You're simply not going to get to the point of inter-galactic travel on belief alone; you can't just will yourself into the sky and venture to new worlds. However, one belief doesn't necessarily counteract another. Many scientists, mathematicians and great minds have had religious beliefs - so, despite my difficulties in understanding that method of thought, they can exist side by side.

Diversity is a great thing.

[Skalman91]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Skalman91, is that necissary?

Honestly - how do people disrespect something and believe themselves to be superior all in the same breath.

They say a picture says more than a thousand words.

I'm just stating my opinion, my goal was never to offend anyone.

[NICKjnp]

Skalman91 wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

Skalman91, is that necissary?

Honestly - how do people disrespect something and believe themselves to be superior all in the same breath.

They say a picture says more than a thousand words.

I'm just stating my opinion, my goal was never to offend anyone.

That picture likely offended a lot of people.

[Yojimboo]

This thread can only become a flamefest, there are 2 things that should never be discussed in a gamesboard.



1) Religion

2) Politic



For both, people started wars. I never ever saw a thread about Religion making it above the 300 post marks before it became utter ridiculousness.



Btw people talking in the 3rd person are the most awkward. Trying to imitate the Hanar?

[Skalman91]

NICKjnp wrote...

Skalman91 wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

Skalman91, is that necissary?

Honestly - how do people disrespect something and believe themselves to be superior all in the same breath.

They say a picture says more than a thousand words.

I'm just stating my opinion, my goal was never to offend anyone.

That picture likely offended a lot of people.

Well then I'm now letting people know that I did not intend that.

[Mr. Gerbz]

The more advanced a species becomes, the more people of that species realize there is not some invisible guy they can blame for everything.

[Skalman91]

Mr. Gerbz wrote...

The more advanced a species becomes, the more people of that species realize there is not some invisible guy they can blame for everything.

QFT,
Although religion is often more than "some invisible guy"

Modifié par Skalman91, 21 janvier 2010 - 12:40 .

[Medhia Nox]

T1:

I wonder if it was not exactly "the Willing" of it that brought about the discovering of such things like mathematics and science. These things exist with, or without us. Hence, they are discoveries - but it is by the Will (the capital is on purpose) of man that we have put them to use.

Belief comes in many different forms. If I believe that God is a mathematical equation working itself out across the Universe (and, lets say I call my God, The Infinite Pi) then it would be easy for me to believe that Mathematics would be my "Bible" of religious truth.

I don't believe you would find much different between this "religion" and the field of mathematics as it stands now. You have "Mathematicians" who are esoteric in their knowledge of their study. You have laymen who listen to their every work explicity - these laymen also believe that "math" is the answer to a great many things (if not everything). And, they can be as bullheaded and condemning of those who don't think like they do - just like a religion.

----

As a note, we have no indication yet that science alone harbors and nurtures our ability to escape our planet. Yet many believe it, and science fiction is the result.

The same can go for aliens - there is absolutely no proof that any alien species exist. Yet, people believe.

Science has its "Rediculous" notions as well.

----

Mr. Gerbtz,

If that is all you understand about religion. Please refrain from posting combative statements.

----

Skalman91,

No offence taken. Thank you for the explination of your intentions.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 21 janvier 2010 - 12:42 .

[Yojimboo]

Mr. Gerbz wrote...

The more advanced a species becomes, the more people of that species realize there is not some invisible guy they can blame for everything.

Or to put it in better words, the more we understand about the world the less we believe in a higher power. I mean, if we would put a Plasma TV infront of some neanderthaler they certainly would think it's the work of a god (or a godess depends what you show them, XXX for example with nipples).

[NICKjnp]

Mr. Gerbz wrote...

The more advanced a species becomes, the more people of that species realize there is not some invisible guy they can blame for everything.

Ask any anthropologist and they will tell you the exact opposite.  Religion is part of the human pysche.  It is our way of understanding the universe... regardless of what religious background you come from.  There are some questions that humans have that science will never be able to answer.  The real question is how will religion adapt to a space faring species?

[atheelogos]

Medhia Nox wrote...

And how has Western secularism "helped" exactly?

I can point out its many flaws, but that's just going to start a conflict on here. So, I'll take the position of listener. I'm curious atheelogos - how has western secularism made us better?

Medhia surely you remember the good old times of when the church ruled don't you? The good old times that was the dark ages. There are too many other examples I could name, which I'm not going to do seeing as it would take a long time to type out and I and I want to keep this as short as possible, so I'll just say this. Whenever religion mixes with politics or government, the outcome was almost always bad, and is always very divisive when it needn't be. And that hurts the state as well as the church.

Secualrism keeps the church from turning governments into theocracies. Without it people might force their religion onto others whether they like it or not. And to people like me who avoid religion like the plague, this is a good thing. But on the flip side it also helps the churches stay free from oppressive governments. Both sides win if its implemented properly.

"I can point out its many flaws" Who said it was perfect? I know I didn't. Besides what would you prefer? Church rule?

Modifié par atheelogos, 21 janvier 2010 - 12:49 .

[T1l]

Medhia Nox wrote...

T1:

...

Medhia Nox , exactly. That was why in my original post on the previous page I asked: Is science a religion? It's rhetorical and I agree with you. "Religion" or a belief system is just how a sentient being makes sense of things. Science, mathematics and empirical data are just that.

Many greater minds than mine have believed in both science and religion; I'm not one to question them, but I do find it a difficult concept to grasp. That is a fault of mine, not others.

[Willowhugger]

Mr. Gerbz wrote...

The more advanced a species becomes, the more people of that species realize there is not some invisible guy they can blame for everything.

Leaving aside people are just about as religious as they always were, religion has been changing with development of society and understanding of the universe since Ancient Babylon.

[T1l]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

T1l wrote...

can see it, hear it, touch it

This is the fallacy of atheism. Can you see your consciousness? Can you feel it? Can you hear it?

Well, yes. "Cogito, ergo sum" or "I think therefore I am" is usually the answer to that.


Also; careful which terms you use. I'm not an athiest, I'm Agnostic. There is a difference.

Modifié par T1l, 21 janvier 2010 - 12:50 .

[Khayness]

Stanley Woo wrote...

It is interesting and engaging? Does it seem preachy or modeled too closely on a real-world religion? Did you even notice? Did you want to learn more about it?

When emotions are raging, there is an excuse. When theories do, there isn't.
People getting killed over different believes pisses me off so much when I think about it. As for the Chantry's Exalted Marches - since it's in a game - I don't care about it that much. My PC is just shrugging his shoulders, and says you are entitled to your opinion, but as soon you try to force it on me, it'll get messy.
It is modeled well enough on the real word, I found it interesting. The only thing I didn't get that what was religion had to do with keeping the mages under watch. "Magic exists to serve man etc. etc." is a poor excuse. Mages should be able to monitor themselves, it's in their best interest to avoid demon posessions. I understand that the religion itself is very close to the fear about misusing of magic, but still, it kinda made themselves look like a paranoid bunch. I even proved that using forbidden knowlage can be used to do good. If there was an option to confess about it, I bet they would have hunted my character

As for religion in games, mostly it's the storybook kind, not the real one, so it's ok with me. I always found the zealot type characters very interesting. I'll dig Thane so much for sure. I admire their willpower and determination gained from their faith. I greatly enjoy playing religious characters in PnP RPGs. DA:O was the first fantasy game I played where religion didn't mean badass divine power wielding priests/clerics, but a religion as it is entirely based on believes.

[Eristik]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

T1l wrote...

can see it, hear it, touch it

This is the fallacy of atheism. Can you see your consciousness? Can you feel it? Can you hear it?

Difference is religion is asking for faith while atheists ask for facts.

[Willowhugger]

Medhia surely you remember the good old times of when the church ruled don't you? The good old times that was the dark ages. There are too many other examples I could name, which I'm not going to do seeing as it would take a long time to type out and I and I want to keep this as short as possible, so I'll just say this. Whenever religion mixes with politics or government, the outcome was almost always bad, and is always very divisive when it needn't be. And that hurts the state as well as the church.



Secualrism keeps the church from turning governments int

Not to be rude, but I have a Masters degree in Medieval History. The Church didn't ever rule in the Middle Ages. It was a hand-in-pocket relationship with the secular feudal society that was constantly trying to beat down the other. The Church frequently was corrupt, but it also helped limit the power of the Feudal governments. Russia, until the 19th century, more or less showed what would happen if unchecked feudalism is left alone. The toothless Orthodox Church pretty much was unable to prevent a agrarian slave society from existing.



The Church also preserved what little scholarship, literacy, and university thought that existed during the Dark Ages.



Of course, modern theocracies include some pretty crappy ass examples, I will admit. However, the Taliban can be measured against North Korea.

[wrexfan32hanalei]

wouldnt it be awesome if scientology was proven true in 2180?

[Medhia Nox]

That is not true Yojimboo.



Do you know many scientists? I assume these are the people you believe "know more about our world".