109 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

In Mass Effect, this sort of makes sense because sex scenes tend to occur in one timeslot, right before the final battle. So something else could be shown happening there. In Dragon Age, however, you (perhaps more sensibly) only have sex during downtime in camp/at home. As such, for your idea to match it, you'd pretty much have to have a Sexless Doodad marked somewhere in camp that would trigger after a certain amount of time of having not romanced anyone, which you would click to perform your sexless activities... and then what if it's like DAO and you could start a romance at any time, with it being based solely on affection levels? What happens if you use the Sexless Doodad and then trigger a sex scene? You'd have unscrupulous players getting double the content!

Funnily enough, that's my argument for why sex scenes are unnecessary.

However, I'll point out that in DA ][ it was tied to quests. That is, your romancing. So if you hadn't done a romance by the end of Act 2, perhaps at the beginning of Act 3 there could be something not related to romancing, but rather related to whomever you have the highest friendship with in the game (however the system will work in DA I, I realize it's changing).

You can flirt with Varric in that situation. And I think the Aveline comfort scene thing is more along the lines of what's sensible, when someone else fills a situation where your romance would be if you had one.

[Cainhurst Crow]

thats1evildude wrote...

It's optional content. OPTIONAL. Why would they introduce mandatory content (the "phone your mom" suggestion) if you ignored the optional stuff?

"Sir, would you like the white or red wine?"
"Neither, thank you."
"I'll just get you a beer then."
"Wait! I didn't order a beer!"
"Well, sir, if you didn't drink the wine, then you have to drink beer. Those are the rules."

Well people didn't say "I'll just sit here and drink nothing for the next hour or more of my dinner." Now did they?

[Am1vf]

I've been thinking about this and the only "content" I can think of that makes sense to keep from those who romanced anyone is "why aren't you married yet?" type of questions from the PC's grandparents.

[Cainhurst Crow]

thats1evildude wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Maybe he wants the option to phone his mum.

So what if the mandatory content was, say, a party member killing themselves if you didn't choose any romance options?

Is it an annoying one? Because my answer would be, bring it on please.

[Chala]

"What if we don't romance anyone?"
Then the Inquisitor will take matters into his own hands.

...

I'll show myself the door.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Secret desire demon romance.

[Cainhurst Crow]

thats1evildude wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Probably for the same reason that a non-romancing Hawke still has a friend (Aveline) come by to comfort him/her after the mother's death, while the LI's do it instead if there is a romance.

But that scene is triggered by a mandatory event. Hawke's mother always dies and someone always comes to comfort him, so it might as well be the love interest. The actual romance content, on the other hand, has no mandatory triggers; you either buy in or you don't.

If you think there won't be some big battle moment that has a manditory romance(sex) scene right before the big battle occurs, in order for the characters to spend "one last night" together, you haven't been paying attention.

[TheBlackBaron]

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

Secret desire demon romance.

Two-headed horse, one half Celstia, one half Luna?

You're a sick man, Britney. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 12 septembre 2013 - 03:03 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

ewww

Recon how could you?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Slanderous heretics. I'm sure all of your desire demons would get you banned from the forums if they were to be described.

[AutumnWitch]

If you choose not to romance you get these three special quests "Sleeping Alone with a Smile", "The Benefits of Cold Baths/Showers" and the all too popular "101 Uses for One Hand"

[Xilizhra]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Probably for the same reason that a non-romancing Hawke still has a friend (Aveline) come by to comfort him/her after the mother's death, while the LI's do it instead if there is a romance.

But that scene is triggered by a mandatory event. Hawke's mother always dies and someone always comes to comfort him, so it might as well be the love interest. The actual romance content, on the other hand, has no mandatory triggers; you either buy in or you don't.

If you think there won't be some big battle moment that has a manditory romance(sex) scene right before the big battle occurs, in order for the characters to spend "one last night" together, you haven't been paying attention.

That has literally never happened in Dragon Age. You're thinking of Mass Effect.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Probably for the same reason that a non-romancing Hawke still has a friend (Aveline) come by to comfort him/her after the mother's death, while the LI's do it instead if there is a romance.

But that scene is triggered by a mandatory event. Hawke's mother always dies and someone always comes to comfort him, so it might as well be the love interest. The actual romance content, on the other hand, has no mandatory triggers; you either buy in or you don't.

If you think there won't be some big battle moment that has a manditory romance(sex) scene right before the big battle occurs, in order for the characters to spend "one last night" together, you haven't been paying attention.

That has literally never happened in Dragon Age. You're thinking of Mass Effect.

We shall see. We shall see.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

OdanUrr wrote...

I understand that each romance unlocks different content for the player, encourages different interactions, etc. But what if you were not to romance anyone? What if you were to take the "loner" approach?

Non-romanced NPCs have 'friend' dialogue dialogue, and in DA2 at least it was nice to see if Hawke doesn't have an LI then a default companion can show up to eg. offer comfort (like Aveline). I tend to agree with you though. Romances in Bioware games get a lot more focus and additional content/attention than other relationships, such as a deep friendship or a burning enmity. It'd be nice to see a light shone more strongly on other emotional connections. Romance is nice and all, and I don't begrudge the content that's available for them, but there are other things to explore.

[In Exile]

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...
If you think there won't be some big battle moment that has a manditory romance(sex) scene right before the big battle occurs, in order for the characters to spend "one last night" together, you haven't been paying attention.

[/quote]
That has literally never happened in Dragon Age. You're thinking of Mass Effect.
[/quote]

Morrigan kind of counts... I think. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JerZeyCJ2 wrote...

I'm pretty sure this has come up before and the dev response was that it is optional content and that you are essentially asking for more content for not doing optional content.

Which sounds absurd, until you realize that that's the stated desire of many an RPG player.

Choice A results in sequential content. Since Choice A is optional, sequential content is by definition optional content.

But, being that this is an RPG, why wouldn't I want or expect Choice not-A (aka Choice B, or Choice C, or anything but Choice A) to also provide optional, sequential content specific to that choice? 

One of the major draws about RPGs is that they do, in fact provide optional content that reflects not choosing other optional content. It's kind of the crux of the entire 'choose your dialogue option' dialogue system, and a major part of Big Decisions.

The thing, though, is that it's not the same kind of choice; what you're referring to is a decision point as to how to continue a story, and wanting equal amounts of content for both choices. That's reasonable. However, if we talk about something not romance--say, an optional sidequest--how many people would want extra content for those who choose not to do the sidequest? And why? It makes no sense, and doesn't make much more with romance.

How is this a different delimma than from the people who want something different or more within the romance?

And why are we bringing up a non-romance sidequest, unless romances have romance specific side quests? In which case, again, how is the delimma different?

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Because the notion of crafting the game so that only celibate PCs can craft hidden pieces of art is utterly absurd.

It's an example of a non-romance bit of character definition. It isn't saying it's exclusive to people who don't romance others. I'm saying it's something that your non-romancer COULD be doing in the time that your romancer IS romancing.

In Mass Effect, this sort of makes sense because sex scenes tend to occur in one timeslot, right before the final battle. So something else could be shown happening there. In Dragon Age, however, you (perhaps more sensibly) only have sex during downtime in camp/at home. As such, for your idea to match it, you'd pretty much have to have a Sexless Doodad marked somewhere in camp that would trigger after a certain amount of time of having not romanced anyone, which you would click to perform your sexless activities... and then what if it's like DAO and you could start a romance at any time, with it being based solely on affection levels? What happens if you use the Sexless Doodad and then trigger a sex scene? You'd have unscrupulous players getting double the content!

Or, alternatively, we don't play on a false delimma of treating this like a slap on addition and instead consider the design/mechanics of your romance system and plan accordingly from the start. Why should we peg ourselves to a poorly devised implementation, except for the purposes of a strawman fallacy?

DAO pretty much put its romances outside of the narrative flow entirely, but plenty of games don't- it's trivial to have an equivalent scene by making it mutually exclusive with romances when a romance role is scripted (the Hawke's mother's death, the end-game night before the battles, etc.). In a game like DA2, for example, where romances were pegged to a linear plot, it's pretty easy to check if the player is in a romance or not at a key plot point.

DAO also isn't exactly the best system to bring up since it was also a low-problem system- a factor of not having the romances carry any unique role in the story's narrative, unlike the ME trilogy. But even there you can still design it so various contents are mutually exclusive with romance. Pegging it to a point in the narrative which can only be done once and have a simple check there.

Or you could have a trigger which only sets if the player has already turned off/denied all the available romance flags. That's a bit more difficult in DAO, since you have to invest time with the potential LIs to do that, but far easier in DA2  when the available flirts and romance flags per act were limited.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 12 septembre 2013 - 10:22 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Probably for the same reason that a non-romancing Hawke still has a friend (Aveline) come by to comfort him/her after the mother's death, while the LI's do it instead if there is a romance.

But that scene is triggered by a mandatory event. Hawke's mother always dies and someone always comes to comfort him, so it might as well be the love interest. The actual romance content, on the other hand, has no mandatory triggers; you either buy in or you don't.

If you think there won't be some big battle moment that has a manditory romance(sex) scene right before the big battle occurs, in order for the characters to spend "one last night" together, you haven't been paying attention.

That has literally never happened in Dragon Age. You're thinking of Mass Effect.

DA2, however, did have LI's enter the plot structure with the post-mother's-death scene, so the concern of having a  romance enter a plot role and wanting an equivalent is valid.

[Dermain]

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Probably for the same reason that a non-romancing Hawke still has a friend (Aveline) come by to comfort him/her after the mother's death, while the LI's do it instead if there is a romance.

But that scene is triggered by a mandatory event. Hawke's mother always dies and someone always comes to comfort him, so it might as well be the love interest. The actual romance content, on the other hand, has no mandatory triggers; you either buy in or you don't.

If you think there won't be some big battle moment that has a manditory romance(sex) scene right before the big battle occurs, in order for the characters to spend "one last night" together, you haven't been paying attention.

That has literally never happened in Dragon Age. You're thinking of Mass Effect.

Are you forgetting the possible conception of the OGB?!

Pretty sure that was a "night before the battle sex scene". 

[Knight of Dane]

Myrkale wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Probably for the same reason that a non-romancing Hawke still has a friend (Aveline) come by to comfort him/her after the mother's death, while the LI's do it instead if there is a romance.

But that scene is triggered by a mandatory event. Hawke's mother always dies and someone always comes to comfort him, so it might as well be the love interest. The actual romance content, on the other hand, has no mandatory triggers; you either buy in or you don't.

If you think there won't be some big battle moment that has a manditory romance(sex) scene right before the big battle occurs, in order for the characters to spend "one last night" together, you haven't been paying attention.

That has literally never happened in Dragon Age. You're thinking of Mass Effect.

Are you forgetting the possible conception of the OGB?!

Pretty sure that was a "night before the battle sex scene". 

That had nothing to do with Romance.

Should Wynne have replaced Morrigan as the standard hd she not been romanced?

[DarthLaxian]

OdanUrr wrote...

I understand that each romance unlocks different content for the player, encourages different interactions, etc. But what if you were not to romance anyone? What if you were to take the "loner" approach?

An example. In ME2, just before the suicide mission, you share an intimate moment with your loved one provided you had previously engaged in a romance. Even if you hadn't and, say, remained faithful to Ashley, you'd get a short cutscene of Shepard staring at her picture. It wasn't spectacular but it was a nice touch that showed Shepard remembered and cared. What happened if you didn't romance anyone at all? Straight cut to the action. Why? You could've shown a scene where Shepard contacts his parents, or a friend, or whatever.

Back to DAI. If our Inquisitor chooses not to romance anyone, will we also get different content? I don't know, maybe a conversation with Varric on the benefits of bachelorhood, or maybe a conversation with Cassandra on why their job (as it were) can't allow for personal attachment. I'd really welcome the opportunity to explore why our character chooses not to romance anyone same as the chance to explore why he chooses to romance a particular someone.

Cheers!

nice idea - i would love that (even if i probably wont get to see it - i play the romances (except for the gay ones (male-gay that is, female-gay i don't have much of a problem with...except if in RL the gay-women behave like men are not worth anything - extreme feminism...i hate those!) and i tend to like them...but on the off-chance that there is not companion i want to romance, yes please!)

greetings LAX

[JerZey CJ]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JerZeyCJ2 wrote...

I'm pretty sure this has come up before and the dev response was that it is optional content and that you are essentially asking for more content for not doing optional content.

Which sounds absurd, until you realize that that's the stated desire of many an RPG player.

Choice A results in sequential content. Since Choice A is optional, sequential content is by definition optional content.

But, being that this is an RPG, why wouldn't I want or expect Choice not-A (aka Choice B, or Choice C, or anything but Choice A) to also provide optional, sequential content specific to that choice? 

One of the major draws about RPGs is that they do, in fact provide optional content that reflects not choosing other optional content. It's kind of the crux of the entire 'choose your dialogue option' dialogue system, and a major part of Big Decisions.

The thing, though, is that it's not the same kind of choice; what you're referring to is a decision point as to how to continue a story, and wanting equal amounts of content for both choices. That's reasonable. However, if we talk about something not romance--say, an optional sidequest--how many people would want extra content for those who choose not to do the sidequest? And why? It makes no sense, and doesn't make much more with romance.

How is this a different delimma than from the people who want something different or more within the romance?

And why are we bringing up a non-romance sidequest, unless romances have romance specific side quests? In which case, again, how is the delimma different?

He brought up the side quest as a comparison. Both a side quest and a romance are "optional content" and are in the same situation. If you don't do a side quest, you shouldn't expect anything special for not doing it, just like a romance.