189 réponses à ce sujet

[IoeShepard]

RedJohn wrote...

Why would someone use Stasis on Asari Vanguard when you can charge them and either throw a grenade to their faces or headshot them?

Not having Stasis is way faster.

If i don´t use stasis on my Vanguard and i run into cerb/collectors 3 pugs don´t get very far. So i am nice because Asari. Stasis is too useful and i have 6 points hanging around anyway.
Its more of a Team oriented decision and its my play style.

[Beerfish]

RedJohn wrote...

Why would someone use Stasis on Asari Vanguard when you can charge them and either throw a grenade to their faces or headshot them?

Not having Stasis is way faster.

Do all of you people just play as if you were playing solo when thinking about using powers?  It's faster to stasis a target, stasis another target the grenade or charge, even better to stasis bubble three targets then grenade, then go back to the 1st stasis'd target who has not moved and disptach them.

Stasis is one of the very best powers in the game and people handicap their team by not taking it.   The things that cause distress in this game is not the mook fest in front of you that you can just charge and nade.  It's that one rocketeter across the map, a group of phantoms, a possessed colelctor captain spewing swarms, an engineeer setting up a turret way over there in a dangerous area littered with enemies.

[Chromatix]

Beerfish wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Why would someone use Stasis on Asari Vanguard when you can charge them and either throw a grenade to their faces or headshot them?

Not having Stasis is way faster.

Do all of you people just play as if you were playing solo when thinking about using powers?

Exactly.

People tend to maximise their preformance. When you're playing with MLG-level people, only things that mean something is who gets to enemy first and who deals more burst damage.

Stasis =\\= Burst Damage
Stasis - Sucks

End of the line.

[cronshaw]

Beerfish wrote...

RedJohn wrote...
Why would someone use Stasis on Asari Vanguard when you can charge them and either throw a grenade to their faces or headshot them?

Not having Stasis is way faster.

Stasis is one of the very best powers in the game and people handicap their team by not taking it.   The things that cause distress in this game is not the mook fest in front of you that you can just charge and nade.  It's that one rocketeter across the map, a group of phantoms, a possessed colelctor captain spewing swarms, an engineeer setting up a turret way over there in a dangerous area littered with enemies.

Stasis is one of the most overrated powers in the game 
It is completely useless against armor and has a long cooldown 
the only difficult enemy it is good against is the phantom and they are just as easily taken care of with 
charge/grenade 
charge is a much superior power and all stasis does on the Asari vanguard is interfere with charge's cooldown

[gen_h1996]

Gi post lawl

[Sailears]

And equally, not having r6 stasis does not impede your effectiveness one bit.

The thing with r6 barrier charge and max fitness (and a cyclonic if you want) is an insane amount of survivability with the DR. You either have to screw up very badly, have charge play up due to lag, or get severely stunlocked in order to die.

Those things across the map can just as easily be taken out by lift grenades, tactical charging and shotgun, as with stasis bubble + grenade.
I maintain r3 stasis is all you need for the rare occasion its better to stasis/shoot something (like a lone nemesis, or in phantom about to sync someone) rather than simply staggering everything with the force of radius charge.

This is even more apparent when you use incendiary/disruptor ammo.

[ISHYGDDT]

modok8 wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

RedJohn wrote...
Why would someone use Stasis on Asari Vanguard when you can charge them and either throw a grenade to their faces or headshot them?

Not having Stasis is way faster.

Stasis is one of the very best powers in the game and people handicap their team by not taking it.   The things that cause distress in this game is not the mook fest in front of you that you can just charge and nade.  It's that one rocketeter across the map, a group of phantoms, a possessed colelctor captain spewing swarms, an engineeer setting up a turret way over there in a dangerous area littered with enemies.

Stasis is one of the most overrated powers in the game 
It is completely useless against armor and has a long cooldown 
the only difficult enemy it is good against is the phantom and they are just as easily taken care of with 
charge/grenade 
charge is a much superior power and all stasis does on the Asari vanguard is interfere with charge's cooldown

 Don't bother.  Certain people will argue that stasis is good until the end of time no matter what evidence you present, just like they'll argue that reload-cancelling is an exploit.

[Sailears]

I can understand and appreciate why people like to use bubble stasis.

I don't understand how they can't understand you can have an equally (if not more) effective build, and a team player without it.

[Beerfish]

modok8 wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

RedJohn wrote...
Why would someone use Stasis on Asari Vanguard when you can charge them and either throw a grenade to their faces or headshot them?

Not having Stasis is way faster.

Stasis is one of the very best powers in the game and people handicap their team by not taking it.   The things that cause distress in this game is not the mook fest in front of you that you can just charge and nade.  It's that one rocketeter across the map, a group of phantoms, a possessed colelctor captain spewing swarms, an engineeer setting up a turret way over there in a dangerous area littered with enemies.

Stasis is one of the most overrated powers in the game 
It is completely useless against armor and has a long cooldown 
the only difficult enemy it is good against is the phantom and they are just as easily taken care of with 
charge/grenade 
charge is a much superior power and all stasis does on the Asari vanguard is interfere with charge's cooldown

Will have to agree to disagree.  Stasis against those unarmoured targets (Phantoms, collector captains, rockeeters, marauders, nemesis) is a fool proof kill.  It in essence allows you to work on two sets of enemies at a time or neuralize a threat from a distance without actually going over there.  It allows you to neautrailze an enemy and let a team mate take care of it.  It allows you to let other chargers on your team charge the staiss bubble while you move on to the next target.

Obviously it is best vs Cerberus but is still good against all factions. 

My view point on this topic is not just from me playing the class, it is playing a group with a stasis vangaurd vs a non stasis vanguard  both good players.  For the group the person stasising everything in sight makes the game easier than vanguard that just charges and nades. 

[RedJohn]

Beerfish wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Why would someone use Stasis on Asari Vanguard when you can charge them and either throw a grenade to their faces or headshot them?

Not having Stasis is way faster.

Do all of you people just play as if you were playing solo when thinking about using powers?  It's faster to stasis a target, stasis another target the grenade or charge, even better to stasis bubble three targets then grenade, then go back to the 1st stasis'd target who has not moved and disptach them.

Stasis is one of the very best powers in the game and people handicap their team by not taking it.   The things that cause distress in this game is not the mook fest in front of you that you can just charge and nade.  It's that one rocketeter across the map, a group of phantoms, a possessed colelctor captain spewing swarms, an engineeer setting up a turret way over there in a dangerous area littered with enemies.

No, you are not right.

what you said in the first paragraph is not right, that would take you too much.

The faster way is this: Charge > Grenade > ocasional shot > Repeat.

With what you said up there you have to waste too much time to kill just 2 enemies, with what I do I wipe spawns. ( except bosses of course )


Wild phantom appears? Charge > Grenade = phantom dead.

No need for stasis, taking stasis reduces your total power, because or you would have to take down from either fitness, the passive, grenades or charge, unless you run a full N7-Link build 6/6/6/6/6, that's the only viable way to take Stasis

[Beerfish]

Curunen wrote...

And equally, not having r6 stasis does not impede your effectiveness one bit.

The thing with r6 barrier charge and max fitness (and a cyclonic if you want) is an insane amount of survivability with the DR. You either have to screw up very badly, have charge play up due to lag, or get severely stunlocked in order to die.

Those things across the map can just as easily be taken out by lift grenades, tactical charging and shotgun, as with stasis bubble + grenade.
I maintain r3 stasis is all you need for the rare occasion its better to stasis/shoot something (like a lone nemesis, or in phantom about to sync someone) rather than simply staggering everything with the force of radius charge.

This is even more apparent when you use incendiary/disruptor ammo.

You have to charge over there to take them out.  that is the whole point.  Look at a map like Hydra, enemies in the enclosed area near the landing zone, other action where you are.  You can stasis that pain in the ass opponent on the other side of the map and stay in the area youa re to charge, nade, what ever you wish.  Stasis allows you to control two areas of the map that are withing sight rather than one.

[Beerfish]

ISHYGDDT wrote...


 Don't bother.  Certain people will argue that stasis is good until the end of time no matter what evidence you present, just like they'll argue that reload-cancelling is an exploit.

My reloads canelling barks are pretty well always in repsonse to people calling some weapons, classes strategies 'cheese' that is beneath them while partaking in a bit of cheese themselves.

I listen to all the evidence re not using stasis.  I'll never once say that charging and nading and then shooting with a weapon is a bad tactic.  I will say that using stasis a lot is a very good tactic that you can do and still charge and nade and that spamming stasis is a better team tactic than ignoring it.

[Sailears]

I dunno, having 54 lift grenades per match, plus the starting 9, plus at least 4 more per wave from ammo boxes (even with another grenade user in the team), so say almost 10 per wave. That's a lot, in addition to fire explosions/tech bursts from shotgun+charge.

[Beerfish]

RedJohn wrote...

With what you said up there you have to waste too much time to kill just 2 enemies, with what I do I wipe spawns. ( except bosses of course )


Wild phantom appears? Charge > Grenade = phantom dead.

You miss the point I can kill two enemies or neutralize them in entriely different areas of the map if I use stasis.  You are also looking at the situation as if you are always looking at fresh spawns in a group. 

What happens if there are two phantoms?  Or a couple tough mooks mnear the phantoms?

In the charge only method you have to go over to kill the target by charging.  With stasis you can stasis in one direction then charge another group or individual.

I charge and use nades alot when I play the assgaurd, I also stasis everything I can.

[RedJohn]

You miss the point I can kill two enemies or neutralize them in entriely different areas of the map if I use stasis. You are also looking at the situation as if you are always looking at fresh spawns in a group.

What happens if there are two phantoms? Or a couple tough mooks mnear the phantoms?

They die too. lift nades have a good radius.

[Sailears]

Oops, can't seem to edit my posts on this phone - my last post was referring to demolisher being a better grenade user.

Talon merc of course is in another league.

[Darkstar Aurora]

Stasis Bubble allows you to make more efficient use of grenades and thermal clip packs.

-The recharge time on Stasis is faster than the time it takes to replenish two grenades from ammunition crates then run back towards the nearest enemy cluster.
-Halting two enemies in the forward advance of a spawn allows you to catch more enemies with a single grenade when their rear guard arrives.
-The Biotic Explosion damage lowers the number of grenades you need to use to finish the targets.
-Stasis Duration + Bubble allows you to isolate one group of enemies on one side of the map while focusing your powers and weapons on another group without being flanked by both.
-There is an unlimited enemy budget on waves 3, 6, 10, and 11. In contrast, there are NOT unlimited grenades during these waves. Stasis Bubble allows you to isolate 25% of the active elite enemies on the battlefield while using cover to avoid fire from bosses and using your weapons and short range charges to kill troopers while hacking a terminal or escorting a drone.

The difference between a 6/3/6/5/6 and a 6/6/6/4/4 Asari Vanguard? The loss of Duration, Bonus Power, and Bubble on Stasis in exchange for the following:
150 health/barrier and a 15% barrier recharge delay reduction
15% power damage/force (extra +135 damage on lift grenade, +60 damage +97 force on Biotic Charge)

Evolved Stasis can hold twice as many targets, continue to capture additional targets for its duration after the initial targets have been killed, and can neutralize a pair of enemies for a duration of three to five times longer than its effective cooldown.

The notion that killing a target faster is better that isolating it is an false arguement for tunnel vision players who cannot grasp the concepts of crowd control and finite active enemy numbers. At any given time there are eight enemies actively threatening you on the battlefield. If you kill two of them then two more will respawn and converge on your position. If you isolate two with a crowd control effect and focus on OTHER enemies instead then you will have reduced the number of active enemies by 25%, which allows to continue to deplete the wave budget while contending with fewer opponents. If you targeted elites with your crowd control powers (Phantoms, Rocket Troopers, Marauders, Captains, Engineers) then you have dramatically reduced the enemies effective total DPS as these units comprise the bulk of a factions speed and lethality.

The divide between utilizing Stasis and ignoring it illustrates the difference between players who adopt a tunnel vision view of the battlefield, and players who alternate powers dynamically based on the situation and a larger view of the map.

Modifié par Darkstar Aurora, 20 septembre 2013 - 04:05 .

[RedJohn]

Darkstar Aurora wrote...

Stasis Bubble allows you to make more efficient use of grenades and thermal clip packs.

-The recharge time on Stasis is faster than the time it takes to replenish two grenades from ammunition crates then run back towards the nearest enemy cluster.
-Halting two enemies in the forward advance of a spawn allows you to catch more enemies with a single grenade when their rear guard arrives.
-The Biotic Explosion damage lowers the number of grenades you need to use to finish the targets.
-Stasis Duration + Bubble allows you to isolate one group of enemies on one side of the map while focusing your powers and weapons on another group without being flanked by both.
-There is an unlimited enemy budget on waves 3, 6, 10, and 11. In contrast, there are NOT unlimited grenades during these waves. Stasis Bubble allows you to isolate 25% of the active elite enemies on the battlefield while using cover to avoid fire from bosses and using your weapons and short range charges to kill troopers while hacking a terminal or escorting a drone.

The difference between a 6/3/6/5/6 and a 6/6/6/4/4 Asari Vanguard? The loss of Duration, Bonus Power, and Bubble on Stasis in exchange for the following:
150 health/barrier and a 15% barrier recharge delay reduction
15% power damage/force (extra +135 damage on lift grenade, +60 damage +97 force on Biotic Charge)

Evolved Stasis can hold twice as many targets, continue to capture additional targets for its duration after the initial targets have been killed, and can neutralize a pair of enemies for a duration of three to five times longer than its effective cooldown.

The notion that killing a target faster is better that isolating it is an false arguement for tunnel vision players who cannot grasp the concepts of crowd control and finite active enemy numbers. At any given time there are eight enemies actively threatening you on the battlefield. If you kill two of them then two more will respawn and converge on your position. If you isolate two with a crowd control effect and focus on OTHER enemies instead then you will have reduced the number of active enemies by 25%, which allows to continue to deplete the wave budget while contending with fewer opponents. If you targeted elites with your crowd control powers (Phantoms, Rocket Troopers, Marauders, Captains, Engineers) then you have dramatically reduced the enemies effective total DPS as these units comprise the bulk of a factions speed and lethality.

The divide between utilizing Stasis and ignoring it illustrates the difference between players who adopt a tunnel vision view of the battlefield, and players who alternate powers dynamically based on the situation and a larger view of the map.

lol no

Modifié par RedJohn, 20 septembre 2013 - 04:21 .

[Beerfish]

Darkstar Aurora wrote...

Stasis Bubble allows you to make more efficient use of grenades and thermal clip packs.

-The recharge time on Stasis is faster than the time it takes to replenish two grenades from ammunition crates then run back towards the nearest enemy cluster.
-Halting two enemies in the forward advance of a spawn allows you to catch more enemies with a single grenade when their rear guard arrives.
-The Biotic Explosion damage lowers the number of grenades you need to use to finish the targets.
-Stasis Duration + Bubble allows you to isolate one group of enemies on one side of the map while focusing your powers and weapons on another group without being flanked by both.
-There is an unlimited enemy budget on waves 3, 6, 10, and 11. In contrast, there are NOT unlimited grenades during these waves. Stasis Bubble allows you to isolate 25% of the active elite enemies on the battlefield while using cover to avoid fire from bosses and using your weapons and short range charges to kill troopers while hacking a terminal or escorting a drone.

The difference between a 6/3/6/5/6 and a 6/6/6/4/4 Asari Vanguard? The loss of Duration, Bonus Power, and Bubble on Stasis in exchange for the following:
150 health/barrier and a 15% barrier recharge delay reduction
15% power damage/force (extra +135 damage on lift grenade, +60 damage +97 force on Biotic Charge)

Evolved Stasis can hold twice as many targets, continue to capture additional targets for its duration after the initial targets have been killed, and can neutralize a pair of enemies for a duration of three to five times longer than its effective cooldown.

The notion that killing a target faster is better that isolating it is an false arguement for tunnel vision players who cannot grasp the concepts of crowd control and finite active enemy numbers. At any given time there are eight enemies actively threatening you on the battlefield. If you kill two of them then two more will respawn and converge on your position. If you isolate two with a crowd control effect and focus on OTHER enemies instead then you will have reduced the number of active enemies by 25%, which allows to continue to deplete the wave budget while contending with fewer opponents. If you targeted elites with your crowd control powers (Phantoms, Rocket Troopers, Marauders, Captains, Engineers) then you have dramatically reduced the enemies effective total DPS as these units comprise the bulk of a factions speed and lethality.

The divide between utilizing Stasis and ignoring it illustrates the difference between players who adopt a tunnel vision view of the battlefield, and players who alternate powers dynamically based on the situation and a larger view of the map.

Thanks, your explanations trump mine. 

[Beerfish]

RedJohn wrote...




lol no

Quality rebuttle.  Rebuttles like this on forums is in essence waving the white flag.

[capn233]

Asari Vanguard is better looking, and I base all my character decisions on looks.

[Sailears]

The funny thing is I'm nearly always an advocate of crowd control over lolDPS, but in this case I find it easier and more fun to just charge around the map. Charge does some decent damage on impact in any case, even with radius, and is very often the finishing blow on small enemies up to phantoms.

I think its unfair to judge it as a tunnel vision approach as you need to have a lot of situational awareness in cqc, for dodging/evasion and accuracy, compared with controlled tactical thinking of sitting back with stasis bubble. Each has its merit and shortcomings.

[RedJohn]

Beerfish wrote...

RedJohn wrote...




lol no

Quality rebuttle.  Rebuttles like this on forums is in essence waving the white flag.

What do you want me to tell?, what he said is just funny and wrong, isolate enemies is just stupid because it split spawns and waste time, therefore you will deal with a smaller amount of enemies at once and that means your killed enemies per minute will be reduced, therefore the wave will last longer and so the game.

Call it tunel vision or however you want, but I'm experienced enough to know that what he said is with all due respect very wrong, it can work of course, but that's not the most effective way. Isolating enemies? why would I do that if I can get a killstreak instead?

With Asari Vanguard I can get 2 killstreaks on wave 1 on gold without any issue in a matter of seconds and this guy talks about isolation.

The only thing faster than Charge > Grenade for Asari Vanguard is Charge and rocket launcher but that is a very limited resource


Stasis can work, but it isn't optimal.

Even the biotic explosions coming from stasis are really weak, so it shouldn't even be taken as a reference for damage.

4 phantoms come, stasis?, hell no, charge to them and throw a grenade in their faces, they will be instantly dead, tell me how using stasis is more effective than that .


Stasis itself is a waste of time.