175 réponses à ce sujet

[Redwolf Skydragon]

Zenor wrote...

also a problem with this system though: People who reload saves. One can keep loading until they got everything from the chest or at least got the good items from the chest. That would mean that its pointless to carry rogues for chests if this was an option.

You could do the same with rogues too... The getting the good items part. But here's the thing. Oh sure, you might get lucky, but is it worth the time to invest in if you're just going to upgrade soon anyway? Like someone pointed out though, the loot from chests is optional, and I don't know about you, but I rarely ever get anything out of a chest that I actually use. Another point you could be reffering to is the fact of just selling the items and thus increasing wealth. Again, though slightly different, I don't know about you, but I rarely find anything of immense value in chests anyway. Though this does not satisfy, as it seems to be an affront to you that warriors and mages would have the audacity to gain any type of currency by doing something a rouge is more skilled at doing. I can see this and understand it. I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

And let me be clear in this regard on this second subject of matter that you have brought forth: ROGUES ARE NOT THERE JUST TO OPEN A CHEST! If that is the only reason why someone would carry around a rogue, then they should want this option, that I have purposed, even more! A rogue is not pointless to carry around. They are extremely skilled at dealing damage. You should not have a rogue in your party just so you can open chests. That is a bonus. The main reason you should have a rogue is because of their usefulness in battle. THAT should be your first concern. (I'm not talking directly to you, persay. Merely mean "you" as in the reader) I understand your concern that a warrior or mage could just make a save and constantly try to obtain loot that most likely they would end up selling, but if people wish to waste time obtaining items that they will either replace very soon or sell for a little currency, I say let them. It's not like there's amazing, epic, better than end-game items in there. If they get a decent item they can use for a short while, so what. That is the reward they get for passing the chance of breaking it. If someone constantly tries over and over until they get the item, then let them have wasted time they could have spent progressing to get items of actual usable worth.

[Allan Schumacher]

I can't really answer definitively (or even really speculatively) on what we'll be doing for DAI, as that is outside of my coverage, but it did lead me to a question.

If all classes have the ability to unlock locked items, is there much value in even having locked chests?

[Taura-Tierno]

Allan: Yes. There are locked chests in games such as KotoR, Baldur's Gate 2, etc.

Having a rogue should guarantee that you can open the chest perfectly (if the appropriate skill is high enough). It might be that warriors and mages could get the same skill, but at a higher cost, meaning they'd have to sacrifice more to get it. Or they might have to spend an extra feat to get it as a "class skill" to be able to buy points it easier. I'm not sure how applicable those examples are to how it'll work in DA:I, but you get my point?

Warriors forcing open the lock on a chest could carry the risk of ruining items inside it. It might also trigger traps that a rogue using appropriate skills could avoid.

So, yes; there is still value in having locked chests.

To me, it adds additional depth if, say, you could have a warrior who's a bit less pure fighter, and a bit more skilled. Or the same with a mage.

Modifié par Taura-Tierno, 13 septembre 2013 - 07:38 .

[David7204]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I can't really answer definitively (or even really speculatively) on what we'll be doing for DAI, as that is outside of my coverage, but it did lead me to a question.

If all classes have the ability to unlock locked items, is there much value in even having locked chests?

Of course there is. Countless games have locked chests that any class can unlock. That's the norm rather than the exception.

Even if the chest is no actual challenge at all, the mere existence of the chest and lock adds a little bit of happy anticipation to the loot. Adds a bit of atmosphere, a bit of mystique.

Modifié par David7204, 13 septembre 2013 - 07:48 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Having a rogue should guarantee that you can open the chest perfectly
(if the appropriate skill is high enough). It might be that warriors and
mages could get the same skill, but at a higher cost, meaning they'd
have to sacrifice more to get it. Or they might have to spend an extra
feat to get it as a "class skill" to be able to buy points it easier.
I'm not sure how applicable those examples are to how it'll work in
DA:I, but you get my point?

How about a mage?

Of course there is. Countless games have locked chests that any class can unlock. That's the norm rather than the exception.

This is not an answer to my question.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 13 septembre 2013 - 07:47 .

[David7204]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

This is not an answer to my question.

Even if the chest is no actual challenge at all, the mere existence of the chest and lock adds a little bit of happy anticipation to the loot. Adds a bit of atmosphere, a bit of mystique. I know I always got a pleasant trickle of anticipation to seeing the big boss chests in the dungeons in Skyrim. The player gets a second or two to wonder 'What's inside here?' as the animation or whatever is playing.

Modifié par David7204, 13 septembre 2013 - 07:51 .

[Ravensword]

David7204 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

This is not an answer to my question.

Even if the chest is no actual challenge at all, the mere existence of the chest and lock adds a little bit of happy anticipation to the loot. Adds a bit of atmosphere, a bit of mystique. I know I always got a pleasant trickle of anticipation to seeing the big boss chests in the dungeons in Skyrim. The player gets a second or two to wonder 'What's inside here?' as the animation or whatever is playing.

Until you open it and find a pair of torn trousers.

[Pakundo]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I can't really answer definitively (or even really speculatively) on what we'll be doing for DAI, as that is outside of my coverage, but it did lead me to a question.

If all classes have the ability to unlock locked items, is there much value in even having locked chests?

My personal opinion is no, which is why I use the lockbash mods.
But that's just me.

[Allan Schumacher]

David7204 wrote...

Even if the chest is no actual challenge at all, the mere existence of the chest and lock adds a little bit of happy anticipation to the loot. Adds a bit of atmosphere, a bit of mystique. I know I always got a pleasant trickle of anticipation to seeing the big boss chests in the dungeons in Skyrim.

Does it need to be locked to still have the anticipation? I ask since, presumably, you wouldn't know it was locked until after seeing the chest.

Just trying to determine where/when the anticipation begins.

[David7204]

No, it doesn't need to be locked. That's a mechanic I honestly wouldn't mind being scrapped (though I wouldn't mind it staying, either.) Although I suspect numerous complaints would arise of 'dumbing down' just because that's what people are used to in RPGs. Coconut effect and all that.

Modifié par David7204, 13 septembre 2013 - 07:56 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

David7204 wrote...

No, it doesn't need to be locked. That's a mechanic I honestly wouldn't mind being scrapped (though I wouldn't mind it staying, either.) Although I suspect numerous complaints would arise of 'dumbing down' just because that's what people are used to in RPGs. Coconut effect and all that.

Than why were you arguing for the lock and chest system earlier? If it doesn't serve a point, as you have said, and you wouldn't mind it being scrapped, why argue for it?

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 13 septembre 2013 - 07:56 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Fair enough. My original inquiry was specifically about the locked aspect, which evidently wasn't as clear as I thought.

Than why were you arguing for the lock and chest system earlier? If it
doesn't serve a point, as you have said, and you wouldn't mind it being
scrapped, why argue for it?

I suspect because the way he read my comment was more about the inclusion of chests period, rather than simply locked chests.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 13 septembre 2013 - 07:57 .

[Ravensword]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Fair enough. My original inquiry was specifically about the locked aspect, which evidently wasn't as clear as I thought.

Than why were you arguing for the lock and chest system earlier? If it
doesn't serve a point, as you have said, and you wouldn't mind it being
scrapped, why argue for it?

I suspect because the way he read my comment was more about the inclusion of chests period, rather than simply locked chests.

Another issue was in DA2 how there were these ornate chests that required a high degree of cunning to unlock only to find a moth-eaten scraf and a pair of torn trousers.

[David7204]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

David7204 wrote...

No, it doesn't need to be locked. That's a mechanic I honestly wouldn't mind being scrapped (though I wouldn't mind it staying, either.) Although I suspect numerous complaints would arise of 'dumbing down' just because that's what people are used to in RPGs. Coconut effect and all that.

Than why were you arguing for the lock and chest system earlier? If it doesn't serve a point, as you have said, and you wouldn't mind it being scrapped, why argue for it?

I never said chests don't serve a point. Quite the opposite. I said chests improve loot and argued chests shouldn't be scrapped in the event of unlocking systems being scrapped.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Fair enough. My original inquiry was specifically about the locked aspect, which evidently wasn't as clear as I thought.

Than why were you arguing for the lock and chest system earlier? If it
doesn't serve a point, as you have said, and you wouldn't mind it being
scrapped, why argue for it?

I suspect because the way he read my comment was more about the inclusion of chests period, rather than simply locked chests.

I don't understand how someone could make a mistake like that. It seems extremely clear what you meant when I read it.

"If all classes have the ability to unlock locked items, is there much value in even having locked chests?"

Not really anything to misinterpret there.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 13 septembre 2013 - 08:01 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Simmer down you two.

It seems clear to me after David's comment that it was a misunderstanding in how he read my question.

[Ravensword]

J. Reezy wrote...

Not a fan of this idea. I kind of like having the choice of either being a certain class in order to do certain things (i.e. unlocking chests) or bringing along the appropriate party member who has the skills I may need.

Indeed. Things like this increase replayability.

[nightcobra]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Even if the chest is no actual challenge at all, the mere existence of the chest and lock adds a little bit of happy anticipation to the loot. Adds a bit of atmosphere, a bit of mystique. I know I always got a pleasant trickle of anticipation to seeing the big boss chests in the dungeons in Skyrim.

Does it need to be locked to still have the anticipation? I ask since, presumably, you wouldn't know it was locked until after seeing the chest.

Just trying to determine where/when the anticipation begins.

For me it's not so much every class locking anything but rather.
If and IF i had the money budget and time i'd do it like:

have a chest with an intricate lock for rogues to unlock
a chest with a magic seal for mages to unlock
a sturdy chest with "dwarven magic resistant chains, i don't know invent something that stays in the lore but with a similar effect" for warriors to bash open


any class could unlock any chest type but if a class tries to unlock a chest not "made" to that archetype, there would be a penalty.

example:

a warrior or rogue that unlocks a mage chest receive magic damage due to the seal
a warrior or mage that unlocks a rogue chest receive poison/gas/trap damage due to an intricate trap in the lock
a rogue or mage that unlocks a warrior chest receives a debuff on strength/constitution due to high physical exertion.


just an idea though:P

[VampireSoap]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I can't really answer definitively (or even really speculatively) on what we'll be doing for DAI, as that is outside of my coverage, but it did lead me to a question.

If all classes have the ability to unlock locked items, is there much value in even having locked chests?

Yeah This is funny. What happened in NWN2 was that a wizard can cast a level 2 "knock" spell on any locked objects and open them instantly. Which makes rogue classes completely useless. So...OP, I just don't think I want that in DAI

[Allan Schumacher]

Deleted some posts and issued some time outs.

In some cases it's best to not keep escalating things. Thank you.

[ObserverStatus]

That's just dumb, why would a mage know how to pick locks? The templar most likely don't allow locks in the tower.

[Ravensword]

J. Reezy wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Not a fan of this idea. I kind of like having the choice of either being a certain class in order to do certain things (i.e. unlocking chests) or bringing along the appropriate party member who has the skills I may need.

Indeed. Things like this increase replayability.

Yup. I know it gives me a chance to change up my party and use characters I may not use if I have all of my bases covered. If this system the OP suggest did happen making chest function like a KOTOR II, where chests need to be bashed open, would be ideal. The possibility of items breaking may still make players think about bringing along the proper party members.

True enough, unless it turns out that the contents of the chest are just junk loot.