226 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

Soooo how about that Civil War in Orlais

[Master Warder Z_]

Maria Caliban wrote...

No, leaving someone does not cause them to become an alcoholic or a murderer. Yes, having your wife leave you sucks, and she could have been nicer about it, but what happened next is totally Oghren's fault.

And again, leaving your partner is not 'betraying' them.

In our modern society perhaps but this isn't OUR society and you seem to be confusing it for that.

This is DWARVEN society.

Where everything from how many enemies you fell for your kingdom or how well you smith your swords determines you worth.

Oghren losing his wife, A Paragon even? Well lets just say it was a massive shame heaped upon him and his kin. The fact they all abandoned him for Branka as well, made it even worse.

He was basically Casteless in practice the moment it occured, It led to everything that followed.

[eye basher]

If the elves think that that a backstabbing harpy like gaspard is going to give them anything if he comes out on top then they are more stupid than i give them credit for.

[Master Warder Z_]

AresKeith wrote...

Soooo how about that Civil War in Orlais

Really do wish we knew more about it but i suppose all will be revealed within time.

I do hope the Book lives up to its predecessors if not exceding them.

[Master Warder Z_]

eye basher wrote...

If the elves think that that a backstabbing harpy like gaspard is going to give them anything if he comes out on top then they are more stupid than i give them credit for.

Wow you really are judgmental about a character we literally know nothing about.

[d-boy15]

Topic about Novel which involve Orlais rebellion and empress

End up talking about lesbian stuff...

[Thunderfox]

Maria Caliban wrote...

...Wade/Herren who stay together even when the Darkspawn win.

Perhaps you didn't notice, but Wade and Herren aren't women.

Could they be better? Yes...

Glad we agree they could be better.

Well Herren is a desire demon in one universe, and I haven't seen any male versions yet...

I admit I'm getting a better idea of what you're asking for, which is more than reasonable. I think there are more important things from BW to work on, but I'm coming at this from a much different perspective, one less personal.

Modifié par ThunderfoxF, 13 septembre 2013 - 03:05 .

[thats1evildude]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Wow you really are judgmental about a character we literally know nothing about.

He does sound like a tremendous d***hole. That's the vibe I got from Asunder.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 13 septembre 2013 - 03:05 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think the biggest question is how much do we know about Gaspard exactly? What type of person is he? What are his driving motivations for waging the Civil War? The impression I get from Celene is that she's ruthless in persuit of her goals and perhaps not the nicest person, but has had a tremendously positive role in national and international politics.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 13 septembre 2013 - 03:05 .

[KENNY4753]

sounds like it will be a good read.

[Maria Caliban]

thats1evildude wrote...

It is when you're a dwarf and your Paragon wife marches your entire house into the Deep Roads except for you.

You're equating Branka leaving Oghren behind with a modern relationship that ends in separation - sad, but hardly the end of the world. You're not considering the stigma that would be placed on Oghren.

Sure, Oghren's society sucks. That doesn't mean Branka is obliged to stay with her husband. She's not morally culpable for other people looking down on him, him drinking heavily, or him killing a man. She is morally culpable for handing Hespith over to the darkspawn.

And you know what, even if had handed Oghren over to the darkspawn so he could be 'violated' and corrupted, the female same-sex relationships in Thedas are all *still* ending in betrayal.

ThunderfoxF wrote...

I admit I'm getting a better idea of what you're asking for, which is more than reasonable. I think there are more important things from BW to work on, but I'm coming at this from a much different perspective, one less personal.

At this point, the only thing I'm asking for is for neither of the women involved to be raped, to have someone attempt to rape them, or to be murdered by the other.

That's my only *request* when it come to this story.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 13 septembre 2013 - 03:10 .

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote...
I have every intention of staying in one forever. And it impugns the presentation.

I think that's the source of our difference here. I just don't understand permanence as a positive (on an emotional level). 

I don't understand what you mean by the presentation also. 

Cammen/Gheyna, Behlen/Rica, quite a few married couples who appear in passing but have no noticeable major issues, Eamon/Isolde, possibly others I'm missing.

I thought Isolde ended up cheating on Eamon with Teagan? Or was that just in my head? 

Anyway, point very much taken. Bioware's portrayal of lesbian relationships is wierdly centered on betrayal. Though at least they feature them? They really don't have any M/M ones. 

Modifié par In Exile, 13 septembre 2013 - 03:10 .

[thats1evildude]

Maria Caliban wrote...

She's not morally culpable for other people looking down on him, him drinking heavily, or him killing a man.

She is if she expected Oghren to be publicly humiliated as a result and simply didn't care. Which, given Branka's personality, I find likely.

And it IS important because it does show that Branka was an abusive person that destroyed everyone around her. Branka's distinguishing characteristic was her obsession with the Anvil, not her sexuality. In fact, that was her only humanizing trait, and she discarded it to complete her quest.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 13 septembre 2013 - 03:19 .

[Master Warder Z_]

In Exile wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I have every intention of staying in one forever. And it impugns the presentation.

I think that's the source of our difference here. I just don't understand permanence as a positive (on an emotional level). 

I don't understand what you mean by the presentation also. 

Cammen/Gheyna, Behlen/Rica, quite a few married couples who appear in passing but have no noticeable major issues, Eamon/Isolde, possibly others I'm missing.

I thought Isolde ended up cheating on Eamon with Teagan? Or was that just in my head? 

Anyway, point very much taken. Bioware's portrayal of lesbian relationships is wierdly centered on betrayal. Though at least they feature them? They really don't have any M/M ones. 

You are leaving out Malgus's Execution of Daru.

You have plenty of Straight relations in Bioware products end up going to Betrayal admittedly though Malgus's case is a bit unique in that he had viable motivation for ending his wife's life.

You know what with Love being erosion to Sith and all.

[K_Tabris]

We don't know 100% sure if Celene backstabs Briala, but it doesn't look good...

[Xilizhra]

I thought Isolde ended up cheating on Eamon with Teagan? Or was that just in my head?

I for a moment thought that Isolde was just with Teagan, so it being in your head is understandable.

[In Exile]

thats1evildude wrote...
She is if she expected Oghren to be publicly humiliated as a result and simply didn't care. Which, given Branka's personality, I find likely.

Being a jerk is so far removed from throwing someone away to be forcibly raped and abused before mutated into a monstrosity that even so much as treating the former act as immoral is a little absurd. 

[Ryzaki]

In Exile wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...
She is if she expected Oghren to be publicly humiliated as a result and simply didn't care. Which, given Branka's personality, I find likely.

Being a jerk is so far removed from throwing someone away to be forcibly raped and abused before mutated into a monstrosity that even so much as treating the former act as immoral is a little absurd. 

Yeah this.

I mean it was a douche move but nowhere near the lvl of douchebaggery that she did to Hespith.

[Master Warder Z_]

Filament wrote...

Too bad such progressive views of cheating have never been employed in Jacob's defense, as he could sure use it...

Even Jacob admits what he did was wrong.

There really isn't a solid defense for it.

[In Exile]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Even Jacob admits what he did was wrong.

There really isn't a solid defense for it.

He does name his kid after you which just makes it weirder. 

[Ryzaki]

In Exile wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Even Jacob admits what he did was wrong.

There really isn't a solid defense for it.

He does name his kid after you which just makes it weirder. 

He needed a punch in the face for that BS.

I mean really how crass and stupid can you be?

[Ryzaki]

Filament wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Even Jacob admits what he did was wrong.

There really isn't a solid defense for it.

What is there to defend? Shepard doesn't own him. He is his own man.

He was his own man in a relationship and lacked the decency to end said relationship before knocking some other chick up.

Then to add to that he lacks the decency and balls to call Shep up and tell her such. Instead she finds out by running into him.

So yeah pathetic, spineless and disgusting. Not defendable. If he had broken up with Shep beforehand yeah fair enough. But nope he doesn't do that and he doesn't tell her she has to find out on her own. And it's only been six months and he knew where she was. If Miranda can get in contact with her pretty sure Jacob could've gotten off his ass and did the same.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 septembre 2013 - 03:49 .

[thats1evildude]

In Exile wrote...

Being a jerk is so far removed from throwing someone away to be forcibly raped and abused before mutated into a monstrosity that even so much as treating the former act as immoral is a little absurd..

My point was never to equate Oghren's suffering with Hespith's, but merely to show that Branka destroyed the lives of everyone around her. She also caused the deaths of the couple hundred other members of her house in her mad quest for the Anvil.

The Anvil of the Void questline doesn't require Hespith to be in a relationship with Branka; you could excise that detail easily and it would barely change anything. But it does emphasize the depravity of her actions - that she would not only throw the other members of her house to the darkspawn horde to achieve her goals, but her own lover as well.

It's not there to impart some hidden message that all lesbian relationships are DOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED to fail.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 13 septembre 2013 - 03:58 .