28 réponses à ce sujet

[Winter90]

I have a couple questions regarding a spellsword build I've been working on.

1.)  Sor 8, EK 10, Cleric 2, RDD 10, this is the build I've been working on. But because the first level of EK dont increase caster level I wont have access to level 9 arcane spells(and because of that epic spells). This build was going to be a straight up damage dealer, so level 9 spells themselves are kinda useless, but I need the level 9 spell slot for maximizing Isaacs greater missile storm and such (and epic spells).

But I need the 2 cleric levels because I need both Divine Shield and Divine Might. So is there a way to get 2 divine feats in one level? (level 1 as a human is out of the question because you need power attack for both feats)

2.) Also, about the RDD natural armor increase... Will it stack with spells(or items) that increase natural armor? I was wondering because the RDD natural armor increase is a class feature, not a spell or item...

3.) Another thing, is there a way to increase the damage output of ceartin spells other than maximizing/empowering them? I kinda know the answer but I thought I'd ask so I'd know for sure, because at the end of MOTB the damage output of non epic spells(even empowered/maximized) arent as effective as I'd like.

4.) Is there anywhere I can download an alternate look/skin for the eldritch knight chain shirt? I never use the original one because of how ugly it looks..

*Edit* I dont know why the topic got posted twice, I only pressed the submit button once...

Modifié par Winter90, 12 septembre 2013 - 11:19 .

[Arkalezth]

1) No, you need the 2 cleric levels (unless you're using Kaedrin's pack, but that changes a whole lot of other things). However, I'd personally skip RDD, or leave it at 4 or so and take more sorcerer, like here. Or just pass on Divine Shield (click), which isn't really necessary in the OC/MotB.

2) Yes.

3) No, except for your caster level, though that has a limit in most cases.

4) Maybe use this?

Modifié par Arkalezth, 12 septembre 2013 - 11:41 .

[Dann-J]

Sorcerer / RDD / EK is my favourite character combination. I've played several of them with different class ratios, either focussing on a spell caster with some melee abilities (more sorcerer and EK), or on melee fighters with less casting ability (more RDD). I've even experimented with spell casting tanks that use the Still Spell feat to cast in heavy armour. They're all good - they just require different strategies to make them work.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the cleric levels. Your use of the divine feats will be limited by the number of Turn Undead usages, which with just two cleric levels will never be very high. Although in the OC where you can squat for five seconds to rest almost anywhere, that's less of a problem.

Divine Shield adds a dodge bonus, so you might be better off investing in some Boots of Hardiness, or even some Boots of the Sun Soul if you develop the 'use magic device' skill. In MotB and SoZ you can enchant any type of equipment with armour bonuses, including footwear. Chances are you'll have boots with a +8 dodge bonus by the time you're approaching level 30 in MotB.

And as for Divine Might - you might as well take the Craft Magic Arms & Armour feat in the OC and enchant your weapons permanently. Or have a companion take the feat, and have them do the enchanting for your. In MotB you'll be able to add ridiculous amounts of elemental damage to you weapons yourself.

Modifié par DannJ, 13 septembre 2013 - 12:01 .

[Winter90]

1.) Yeah, thought as much, if that is the case I think I will go with a sor 9, EK 10, Pal 5, RDD 5 or something similar instead, which gives me divine grace and high bab progression from pal. Im planning on taking the practiced spellcaster feat as well, which gives me caster level 22( good enough for motb).

But about Kaedrins content, how does it change so that I can take two divine feats in one level? And is his content based on dnd or what?

2.) Nice

3.) But caster level dont increase damage? beyond the cap anyway... the highest damage dealing spells are maximized greater fireburst and maximized isaacs greater missile storm.. Which reach max damage at caster level 15 and 20 respectively. Which is why I dont need more caster levels. If I meet any creatures with spell resistance I can use assay resistance and mordenkainens disjunction. Or go melee.

4.) Thanks!

Thanks for your reply.

[Winter90]

Dannj: Well I dont like it when my character rely too much on equipment. Turn undead attempts are equal to three plus your charisma score. I got 13 turn undead attempts with my last divine sorcerer build. Which add 10 points to armor class, for 10 rounds(about 90 seconds, 13 times before needing rest). This time im planning on taking the epic divine might feat which will give me 20 added damage on hit for 20 rounds. I'd say the feats are worth it, with a high enough bab, which Im trying to increase my characters bab this time around.

And I agree with you Spellsword builds are the most fun.

The thing I had in mind for this character was not a full plate spellsword, but more of a quick caster who can dodge attacks. I got almost 60 AC on my last divine sorcerer build, and Im trying to increase it this time around. This also gives me the ability to maximize and empower spells as well, for a much higher damage output.

Thanks for replying.

Modifié par Winter90, 13 septembre 2013 - 12:13 .

[Dann-J]

Taking all 10 levels of RDD is worth it, if only for the complete immunity to fire. The added ability bonuses aren't too shabby either. Although that's only if you want a melee fighter with some casting ability, rather than a caster with some melee ability. It seems you want the latter build though.

Personally, I prefer to hit things after casting protective buffs on myself, and fall back on offensive spells only if things go pear-shaped. Softening enemies up with spells from afar, then cleaning up the scraps with a bit of wet-work, is certainly the safer option though - but where's the fun in playing safe?

As for enemies with spell resitance - unless it's granted by a feat (such as with drow or yuan-ti) then you might as well pretend it's not there. SR granted by an item or a creature hide only works for the first spell you cast. All subsequent spells will get through. If you really want to hurt such creatures with the first spell, then cast an acid-based spell at them. They don't seem to be affected by SR at all.

Modifié par DannJ, 13 septembre 2013 - 12:14 .

[Winter90]

Yes I really would like to take all 10 levels of RDD (immunity to fire, sleep and paralysis,+4 strength + 2 charisma, lots of good stuff..) but not if it costs me 9th level spell slots, which is why I asked if there was a way to take two divine feats on a single cleric level. But is seems its not possible, sadly..

[Dann-J]

One way to get 'free' feats is by carefully choosing your cleric domains. There are a few that grant divine feats for free - but not Divine Shield or Divine Might unfortunately.

Fury Domain (Battle Master)
Protection Domain (Divine Protection)
Strength Domain (Divine Strength)
Sun Domain (Exceptional Turning)
Undeath Domain (Extra Turning)

[Arkalezth]

You can never take two divine feats in the same level, but in the unmoded game, you can only take those in a "divine level" (cleric, paladin or blackguard).

I don't recall the damage cap of most spells, but some are uncapped, like Flame Arrow. Caster level affects other things as well, so more is always good, but I wouldn't worry too much about it unless you're playing a pure caster, which is not the case.

Keep in mind that RDD - especially the full 10 levels - will dramatically delay your casting progression. If you like playing as a  spellsword, I strongly suggest, at the very least, to leave RDD for epic. Otherwise, you won't see the "spell" part until the end game. RDD (at least the full 10 levels) is usually considered a poor choice for gishes, and it's an overrated class in general IMO. Immunity to fire? You already get that as a sorcerer.

Domains are indeed a good way to get free feats, but the ones Dann mentioned are pretty crappy if you ask me. For this particular build, I'd take Water and War (pick a deity with a favoured weapon from the "martial" list).

[Winter90]

Yeah, last time I played, pure sorcerer/EK through the OC with only one level of paladin for the martial feat you need for the EK levels. It really is the only way to go since I dont wanna wait until level 28 for 9th level spells. Playing it this way makes the build stronger throughout the game as well, rather than when mixing everything up.

For the Cleric domain I was going to take water as one of them(for evasion). But I think Im going for paladin instead now.

The reason I need RDD is because otherwise itd be very difficult get epic divine might otherwise(strength 21, Charisma 21). I like to have at least a +1 modifier in every attribute score, so my character is not either stupid, slow,uninsightful, weak or ugly haha...

Ice storm is also uncapped, which dont have a save as well.. My last run through the game I was hitting everything for close to 90 damage unsavable around with ice storm maximized.

But RDD fire immunity(sleep,fear,paralysis immunity) cant be dispelled though, and If I were to cast energy immunity I could be immune to like both fire and ice. And then there is also the +4 strength,+2 charisma, and +4 natural armor bonuses, its very good. Total its +8 strength, +2 charisma, +2 con, +2 int, and +4 AC, +12 hp by level, and med bab progression, I dont see how thats in anyway overrated...

Anyway I wont be able to get the full 10 levels without sacrificing 9th level spells so its out of the question..

if anyone has a better suggestion for an arcane spellsword then Im all ears,eh or eyes.. But in my mind a spellsword NEEDS the epic divine might and strength from RDD to ramp up damage output in melee. Its the only way I've come up with to create a spellsword who can dish out respectable damage in melee. I also take the imp power attack feat.

[Winter90]

Also I was wondering about Kaedrins content, is it based on DnD/rules/classes? Because I dont wont to install a bunch of random changes some dude made to the game just so I can make a build work. It would feel like I was cheating.

[Arkalezth]

I think most of the content is based on DnD, but what I mentioned is just a fix (so you can take the divine feats with any class, as long as you meet the requirements). There was a similar discussion here the other day.

As for RDD, some people drool when they see the class' features, but I don't see those adding THAT much in practice unless you need to meet some certain attribute requirements. But hey, to each his own.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 13 septembre 2013 - 01:36 .

[Winter90]

Thanks to everyone who've helped.

Soo, Ive been working on my spellsword build and I believe Ive come up with a really good one. It should be able to reach between 60-70 AC, have an attack bonus around 30 unbuffed(can reach around 40, even over 55 with true strike) , and have access to empower and maximize spell with a very high DC. In addition it should be able to to reach a damage output of 70-80 in one melee hit. ( it also has access to either, evasion and still mind, or both if you want both of them more than vampiric feast)

I went the weapon master route to increase melee damage output, and because of that(as you might guess) I have to take a bunch of useless feats just to reach the requirements to take weapon master levels. So I was wondering if someone knew of a way to perhaps get some of those feats for free, through cleric domains or otherwise.

I was also wondering if installing soz may reduce the amount of useless feats I have to take to get weapon master levels. I was hoping they took a look at the class and reduced the requirements or something... It would enable me to take some more usefull feats instead...

I also was wondering if there was a way to use the human heads for the aasimar class? Because the aasimar heads are so ugly.. And canonwise some aasimar look just like humans with just an "unnaturally intense stare".(taken right out of game description)

Modifié par Winter90, 15 septembre 2013 - 06:21 .

[Tchos]

Winter90 wrote...
I also was wondering if there was a way to use the human heads for the aasimar class? Because the aasimar heads are so ugly.. And canonwise some aasimar look just like humans with just an "unnaturally intense stare".(taken right out of game description)

You could try using the Facelift Pack.  This is the selection of aasimar heads:

[Winter90]

Thanks for answering.

Yeah I looked at that the other day. I will use it if there is no other way.

But I was hoping that I could use the regular human heads as an aasimar character.

Can't I just open the script and change the aasimar heads to be the same as the human heads? or add the human heads?

Or something else?

Thanks in advance.

[Tchos]

I think you could use MDB Cloner to copy the human heads to the same names as the aasimar heads, though I have not done this, and don't know if it would work. I don't believe it could be done through scripting.

[Winter90]

Ok, I have no experience with this MDB cloner tool.. How would I go about doing this?

[Winter90]

It says in the description that the cloner supports heads though, it might work.

[Arkalezth]

Winter90 wrote...
So I was wondering if someone knew of a way to perhaps get some of those feats for free, through cleric domains or otherwise.

I was also wondering if installing soz may reduce the amount of useless feats I have to take to get weapon master levels. I was hoping they took a look at the class and reduced the requirements or something... It would enable me to take some more usefull feats instead...

No, and no. Well, you can get Mobility for free with the swashbuckler class, but the fastest way to meet the WM requisites is with fighter's bonus feats. While mostly useless, some of those feats unlock other classes as well (shadowdancer, duelist...), so you can consider taking those as well, if that makes you feel that your investment was more worthwile.

WM is not a great class for the campaigns, though, due to the high amount of crit-immune enemies.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 15 septembre 2013 - 08:40 .

[Tchos]

Winter90 wrote...
Ok, I have no experience with this MDB cloner tool.. How would I go about doing this?

I can't give specific advice at this time on that subject.  If no one else can, then I think experimenting with it would be the best approach.

[Winter90]

Alright, eh, where do I start experimenting? Do I open a ceartin script? Or do I do it in game?

[Winter90]

Arkalezth wrote...

WM is not a great class for the campaigns, though, due to the high amount of crit-immune enemies.

Yes I know, however there was a solution to it with some rune item feats.. But critical hit damage is halved sadly.. And as a result of that I was able to make a RDD 4/pal 5 Sorcerer build which can deal more melee damage on average, and hit more often as well. It'll average 50 damage per hit, and will crit for over 100 on things who actually can be "hit critically". That build is not as starved for feat slots and will gain higher caster level with practiced spellcaster, in addition to having divine grace.

So I think I'll go that way instead.

I was able to make a weapon master build that deal even more damage on average( over 150 critical) but I would have to sacrifice to much spellpower sadly..

Its a shame though.. Weapon master is my favourite melee class.. And sorcerer is my favourite caster class.

Its really annoying that I couldnt go with that build because of weapon master having some requirements that make no sense... etc. mobility(+4 against aoo), and then spring attack which makes you immune to aoo.. Stupid..

*Edit* I also think its kinda stupid that the rune feats only give you half crit damage against crit immune enemies. It should give the full bonus because its kinda unfair to the WM class otherwise( and crit builds overall). Nobody is immune to a sword strike to the neck after all...

Modifié par Winter90, 16 septembre 2013 - 01:34 .

[Arkalezth]

Winter90 wrote...
Its really annoying that I couldnt go with that build because of weapon master having some requirements that make no sense... etc. mobility(+4 against aoo), and then spring attack which makes you immune to aoo.. Stupid..

They're undoubtedly crappy feats, especially if you invest in Tumble, but Mobility is a requisite for Spring Attack, so that part does make sense.

[Winter90]

Arkalezth wrote...

Winter90 wrote...
Its really annoying that I couldnt go with that build because of weapon master having some requirements that make no sense... etc. mobility(+4 against aoo), and then spring attack which makes you immune to aoo.. Stupid..

They're undoubtedly crappy feats, especially if you invest in Tumble, but Mobility is a requisite for Spring Attack, so that part does make sense.

I suppose it does, but those feats are pretty useless for a fighter build anyway, it does not make sense that they are required for a fighter class. Spring attack would be more appropriate for a rogue who needs to move around much more in combat. The only feat that makes sense as a requirement is the weapon focus in a melee weapon if you ask me...

[Dann-J]

Arkalezth wrote...

WM is not a great class for the campaigns, though, due to the high amount of crit-immune enemies.

Undead might be immune to critical hits but they never have a constitution score better than 10, so their hit points generally aren't very high. A WM is at least as effective at killing undead as an ordinary fighter (minus a few bonus feats). Ki damage works against undead, as does the benefit of the free Superior Weapon Focus feat. Then there are all the beasties that aren't critical-immune that you'll encounter in the official campaigns, that WMs will make short work of.

I've been playing through MotB with a Fighter/WM/Black Guard. I occasionally load up the save game and play it a bit more, but by level 27 (F10, WM10, BG7) the game has become so easy that it's no longer a challenge. I put enough points into dexterity to take all of the two-weapon fighting feats, so with a flaming adamantine katana in one hand, the Dream Dagger in the offhand, and an insane number of attacks, I'm pretty much killing most things in a single round even without critical hits.
 
I find that games get too boring once your character becomes that powerful, and I generally stop playing when a game is no longer challenging. In fact, I was hoping that taking WM might make things more of a challenge, because people keep saying that they're "not a great class" for MotB. So much for that advice!

Modifié par DannJ, 16 septembre 2013 - 11:13 .