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[Xplode441]

StreetMagic wrote...
That bit of dialogue in the beginning had nothing to do with Saren. It's right in the first scene when you meet Nihilus, before Eden Prime, before you even know who Saren is. Anderson insists you get into the Spectres for the sake of "humanity", and you can tell him you don't like people deciding your future.

There is no blatant misdirection on my part. I've played ME1 way too many times to count.

At least in DAO, they had a better way of enforcing your Warden status (by conscription).

I fail to see how it's unrealistic.  Shepard is being used to further humanity's interests in the Council.  That's politics, which is what Anderson means in response to Shepard.  If the game had never escalated in plot like it did at Eden Prime and it was really just a pick up the beacon and go mission, I would agree with you that it would be stupid to be pushed into the SPECTREs without your choice in the matter, but that's not what happened.

The misdirection was the strawman of an argument about how you get to choose your employers in real life.  You obviously don't get to do that in Mass Effect as you're already employed, and I doubt Anderson or Udina was going to put a gun to Shepard's head to make him join the SPECTREs, they would probably try to sweet-talk and threaten him because it furthers humanity politically.

Modifié par Xplode441, 14 septembre 2013 - 03:07 .

[Xplode441]

StreetMagic wrote...
Are you even following the line of discussion I was having with the other person? I'm just curious. That's all I cared to speak to about this. It seems like you're taking my posts in isolation.

I am, that's how I got to your post.  Is your post even worth taking up space on Bioware's cache?  You're adding nothing to the conversation, nor are you even addressing what I'm saying in regards to your post.  I hold nothing against the arguments made by the other poster's, but I pointed out what I saw as faulty logic in your post and you get defensive and act like you hold no claim in this discussion anymore.  You don't get to argue against someone's post and then decide you're out when someone else argues yours.

[RZIBARA]

That wasnt me who made the argument actually. I just said i agree with him

[Xplode441]

StreetMagic wrote...
Heh? Now you're just resorting to petty insults? Did I miss something? This is serious business, apparently.

Lets start from the top. He compared working with the Council to being like other jobs, where you're forced to work with people you don't want. All I said was that it's not like real life - in real life, you choose the jobs you're at. At least in most free societies, you do. I never went out to convey any more than that.

You're also getting unnecessarily antsy, like I'm against playing as a SPECTRE myself, and now you're all internet toughguy ready to unleash your fury about this. Or something. When I said in that very post that "I happen to want to be a Spectre btw". All I'm pointing out is that none of this is like real life. I'm not saying anything controversial. Go ride someone else's ass.

As opposed to your what? Praising of my reading comprehension skills.  What was that you did in your last post, compliment me?

I already argued against your second paragraph there in my earlier posts, this is just circular now.  You're bringing up old points I already argued.

I don't see how I'm angsty when I'm pointing out your failure to respond to my points, and then you claim that you hold no stake in the discussion anymore.  If you're really butthurt over me saying that and want to claim that I'm being mean or something, then that's your right.  But I also have the right to believe that you're being intentionally oversensitive over my word choice.  I pointed out that your post was rather worthless in that it was simply an insult and addressed nothing.
I also believe you're projecting fairly hard by calling me an "internet tough guy" when I gave no indication that I was in anyway upset or prepared to "fite you irl" or something inane.  Just want to know why you're blatantly avoiding what I'm saying in regards to your original argument.  I have nothing against how you play, and I never stated anything to imply that.  My view was that your argument of it not being like real life was a strawman and I challenged it, not your Shepard or how you roleplay.

[Xplode441]

StreetMagic wrote...
I simply asked you if you read the other person's exchange. I even said "just curious" as a way to make it as casual as possible. And now you're telling me I'm the sensitive one? I admit, I didn't give you the time of day, but I didn't insult you. Why should I give you more time than that? Or this, for that matter? I'm given this all the attention I think it deserves now.

Why are you getting all awkward making me split up posts like this?  It's cool.  Why would you believe that I had not read the other posts involving the subject?  Even so, they hold no relevence to what I held issue with, so why would they be brought up now?

Because it seemed like you were starting off on the wrong foot. Like I'm against the Spectre plotline, and you had to defend it's validity or worth. I'm not interested, if that's the case. I only wanted to stick to my original exchange about the comparison to "real life" jobs and working with people we dislike.

I don't see how you got that impression at all.  I don't care about the plot line's validity or realism or whatever.  I was simply explaining how the real life parallels do work in regards to the work in which you don't get to choose who you cooperate with in your job.

[Xplode441]

StreetMagic wrote...
Alright man. I think we can pick up from here. Cool? I think we can discuss this again.

I simply disagree on that. If it had been a new placement within the Alliance, I could see a real life parallel. When you sign up for a job (military or not), you have to bite the bullet and move wherever the organization deems fit. But this is a multilateral type of deal. It's not a new placement within the Alliance, but actually moving out of it and answering to foreign governments. I don't know any real life parallel to that, where you're ordered to submit to foreign powers. I can see some jobs encouraging you to do it, but not in the way Anderson does, where he treats it like any other kind of deployment.

The way I see it is that Shepard is just being used as a stepping stool for humanity to shove their way onto the Council and that's why Shepard is being pushed so hard to become a SPECTRE.  I finished a playthrough of ME1 a few days ago, and I didn't get the impression that Shepard was being "ordered" or "forced" to accept the offer.  Rather that the responsibility was thrust upon him by the task to take down Saren.  If we're talking plot wise, Shepard already accepts the job to take down Saren before he even gets to the Citadel because he's working with Udina and Anderson to get him discredited and stripped of rank.  He has direct involvement with all of that before by way of the beacon as well, so it's not like he can turn down the rank.  He doesn't really get to choose to work with the Council, it's just something he has to do to save the galaxy.

That's where I see the parallels to the adage, "you don't choose who to work with".  I mean yeah, Shepard could turn the Council down, but no one else would have made it to Ilos.

[Br3admax]

/Reads the Codex entry about Spectres. Reads the part about joining the Council becoming likely. Wonders why an hour long debate sprung from knowledge that was already in the earlier games.

[KaiserShep]

That's actually true. Even if Eden Prime was just brazenly attacked by Batarians, there'd still be this whole push to make Shepard the next SPECTRE, though the council clearly only allowed it to happen so soon because of of the circumstances.

[Xplode441]

StreetMagic wrote...
That's what I was trying to point out about my original comment with Nihilus though. They already have you pegged before Saren. If they had left that out, and it was all about Saren and Eden Prime, I'd agree with you.It's just that Anderson is already insistent upon you being a Spectre before that (at least if you pick the Renegade options with Nihilus and tell him you don't like people deciding your future. Then Anderson says "This isn't about you.").

I think I'm being too abstract with my reasoning.  I see how it could be thought of different ways.  My reasoning being that Shepard's job was taking down Saren before being forced to become a Spectre and by that he was forced to work with the Council.  While in game (non-meta) Shepard is switched over to just working with the Council of no real choice, from the political pressure and the whole 'vengeance against Saren' thing.

[AlanC9]

StreetMagic wrote...
But this is a multilateral type of deal. It's not a new placement within the Alliance, but actually moving out of it and answering to foreign governments. I don't know any real life parallel to that, where you're ordered to submit to foreign powers. I can see some jobs encouraging you to do it, but not in the way Anderson does, where he treats it like any other kind of deployment.

We place officers within allied militaries fairly often, actually, and vice versa. Google "personnel exchange program."

[TurianRebel212]

ME2 is the best game in the series. Mass Effect 1 is the second best. ME3 is a pretty good game, but... dat ending. Although citadel DLC is amazing. But ME2 is the best. I do not think the sereis died with ME3. ME3 clear up to the last 10 minutes and the decision chamber and catalyst was a very good game. But the ending is full on scrub fest. But it's alright. Still good game.

ME2 will always be the best tho.

Modifié par TurianRebel212, 14 septembre 2013 - 06:25 .

[AlanC9]

I honestly don't know whether it's currently voluntary or not -- anyone have some familiarity with how we handle things in Afghanistan these days? I do know that in other eras soldiers were flatly ordered to serve with units of other nationalities from time to time.

Anyway, I think talking about "autonomy" WRT real life confuses the issue a bit. Even if some officer could have refused those orders, Shepard isn't the sort of person who would ever do that. Just isn't.

Modifié par AlanC9, 14 septembre 2013 - 09:02 .

[Hey]

i played all 3

[rashie]

Xplode441 wrote...

]In ME1 you are already an Alliance soldier, not an Admiral or anything so you obviously don't get much choice in your future.  Plus, you need SPECTRE status to take Saren down.  Game universe wise, you wouldn't have the support or authority to do half of the stuff you did in ME1 without SPECTRE status.  If you don't want to be a SPECTRE, then you can shut the game down and pretend some other guy took Saren down.

Just like you need to work with Cerberus for their resources to be able to stop the collectors as both the alliance and the council where blocking shepards request of aid, yet people are asking for them to become optional and that its forced upon the player.

Modifié par rashie, 14 septembre 2013 - 09:10 .

[Han Shot First]

Tommyspa wrote...

poppycock.

This.

Also, balderdash!

[TheMyron]

RZIBARA wrote...

DuskWanderer wrote...

No, ME3 had a lot of shining moments. It was the ending that made me upset.

That's not to say ME2 didn't have it's faults. The awful way the VS was treated, and a lack of banter between squadmates (I do understand the lack of logistics, but seriously, a sprinkle here and there)

you forgot that there was barely a plot, Shepard dies (you have no idea how stupid it is) and is FORCED to work with Cerberus.

I think having Cerberus double-cross you and everyone else in the Galaxy was the downfall, I was certain that Cerberus was going to be strong (though untrustworthy) ally when the Reapers showed up.

[TheMyron]

Han Shot First wrote...

Tommyspa wrote...

poppycock.

This.

Also, balderdash!

Bob's your uncle if those are the only two words one can think of...