159 réponses à ce sujet

[ScarMK]

Angrywolves wrote...

Not so fast jimmy.
I never said Thedas was the world or had to have asians.
As for the developers comments when were they made ?
If they were made concerning DAO or DA2, we don't know if they germane to a DAI conversation .
shrugs.
We don't know.
I don't like people coming in and trying to kill a thread with the weighed in before with any timeline.
shrugs.
Nothing personal .
Asians or no asians won't determine whether I buy the game.

He posted that as a response to a thread in this very forum.

[Fast Jimmy]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Oh, wow. This topic again.

Lots of fans and Bioware employees have weighed in on this exact topic in the past. There are, currently, no Asians in the Thedas lore. They are not planning on putting any Asians in the game unless there is an explanation of them appearing as a previously-undiscussed group of people, say the Fex from Par Vollen or perhaps even an undiscovered country.

That being said, options of creating your own player to have a multitude of different appearances are going to be possible in DA:I to an unprecedented level, so the player should be able to have a better shot at creating an Asian main character, should they so choose.

Okay... so I see no one really responded to or paid attention to my first post, so...

http://social.biowar...2050/3#16017008

David Gaider wrote...

Four things:

[color=rgb(170, 170, 170)">1) Thedas is not Europe. It's vaguely based on medieval Europe-- and, while I can see why some people would like more fantasy based on things ]other [/color]than medieval Europe (and I approve-- heck, we did Jade Empire after all), it is and the setting is already created. Making direct comparisons to "it was like this in European history", however, and trying to say that means it should also be like this in Thedas is not going to hold much weight. Dragon Age is not a historical simulation.

2) That said, there were black people in Europe. Depending on which era you look at, in fact, there were potentially a lot of them. Thedas also has Rivain, which is roughly analogous to medieval Spain... but I wouldn't try to stretch the comparison too hard.

3) We've said previously that we'd like to have more ethnic variation in Dragon Age. Our previous engine couldn't do very dark skin tones very well, but with that fact changed it's something we'd like to include. Rivain does exist, like I said, and while they're not the most populous country their people are not exactly barred into their cities. We're going to include them where they make sense, and thankfully there are indeed places where they make sense. It's perfectly reasonable for people to ask for more of this-- it's not about "political correctness" so much as not making the default white in every single instance just because nobody thought it could maybe be otherwise.

4) All that said, trying to squeeze every real-world ethnicity onto one continent simply isn't going to happen. There are, however, places in Dragon Age other than the continent of Thedas... should we ever go to those places, one should expect to see other sorts of people there. And there's nothing stopping the occasional traveler from far away coming into the game for plot reasons, though that's going to be exceptional simply because traffic between the continents is not exactly great. If it was, you'd expect people to be talking about "the lands beyond Thedas" a trifle more, wouldn't you? That could, however, always change.

How people look in the game is really more the Art department's province than Writing's, but we have input on the subject (and a degree of influence over the context). Ultimately this is something you're simply going to have to wait and see on, and we'll show what we mean. Beyond that, however, like I said above there's really no reason to slam anyone who asks for more representation in fantasy. It's a big place.

This should, in all honesty, end the thread. 

Perhaps everyone here should pay attention to David's last two  lines.

Perhaps YOU should look at every other line beforehand.

They aren't going to include other races just to include other races. If they introduce different looking peoples - whether those be dwarves who are ten feet tall, birdmen who can fly across the sea or other humans that look Asian - that is up to the Bioware team. If they do so, it will be explained with lore reasons, likely that they are a rare type of people to seen in Thedas and would require an explanation.

This limits the appearance of individuals of such an appearance to either extremely small, limited groups, or some large scale event, such as an invasion or migration, which would explain why, suddenly, we see people with this appearance everywhere. Again - this appearance could be a reflection of a real-life ethnic race or a fantastical race, such as a Man-Giraffe-Dogs. 

Regardless, the setting says there are currently no Asians. And Bioware is sticking to that unless they introduce a logical, lore-dependent reason for that changing. It is not racism, but merely just preserving the narrative integrity of their setting.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 13 septembre 2013 - 12:31 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Angrywolves wrote...

Not so fast jimmy.
I never said Thedas was the world or had to have asians.
As for the developers comments when were they made ?
If they were made concerning DAO or DA2, we don't know if they germane to a DAI conversation .
shrugs.
We don't know.
I don't like people coming in and trying to kill a thread with the weighed in before with any timeline.
shrugs.
Nothing personal .
Asians or no asians won't determine whether I buy the game.

This was a quote by Gaider made on the DA:I forums a few months ago.

That's why I included a link to it in my post.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 13 septembre 2013 - 12:30 .

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Oh, one last thing before I bow out.

Sandal, the majority of people here disagree with you, and you make snide comments calling them trolls and aggressively attack what they say?

Which one of us is the actual troll? Think.

Bye.

[Shadow Fox]

greengoron89 wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

 Why do the people of Thedas have to be sorely Caucasian in appearence?

Don't you know that whites are the norm, and anyone else is "other" and therefore they must  have a reason to justify their existance?

Europe - the region on which Thedas is based I might add - is made up predominantly of "whites", so yes... non-whites are the "other" (which you seem to see as a bad thing for some reason). It would be no different than seeing a non-Chinese person in China. They're the odd one out. That's a simple fact.

Just wanted to chime in there. You may resume your "minority" pity party.

Well Thedas isn't Europe.

[Hazegurl]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

Yes we all split from the chimpanzee line. We all came from atoms originally too I didn't say we weren't from the same species, I said different races of those species. Which is, as you say, due to environment.

There are no hot, really sunny places in Ferelden. Logically, there wouldn't be any native black people in it (which is, indeed true; elves are the natives of ferelden and they have pale to tan skin).


My Hawke was black, my Warden was as close to arabic as I could manage with mods. I LOVE the ethnic diversity in the games. I'm just saying that everything has been caused by something, they aren't just different races for no reason whatsoever

All of the different hominids died out. Only ****** Sapiens survived. Maybe I'm confused cause you said Asians evolved from different monkeys... Sorry about that, sometimes I can get too technical, I think I know what you mean lol! :happy:

just a small life rant, can be ignored by all: With all honesty, the whole race labelling is tiresome, we're all just ****** sapiens with different features for survival, I wish we could go back to a time when it was just about what country you came from and not what race you belong to. Oh life is just a crazy rollercoaster. lol!

[Angrywolves]

Can't read all threads in all forums.
I stand corrected.
smiles.
Twas fun while it lasted.
I expected people to argue because they like to argue on the BSN.
Way too much.
Gaiders last two lines were appropriate as someone pointed out.
And with all the additions being made to DAI there was always the chance Gaider might change his mind and try to surprise us.
Smiles.
So jimmy put that puppy to bed at last.

[Secretlyapotato]

I'm curious about this myself.

That trap girl in Lothering looked Asian.

http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Allison

And there's a preset that makes Hawke's family have an Asian appearance to them.

http://img838.images...ilypresets2.png

So yes, it's not like Asian-looking characters don't exist in the Dragon Age universe. I would be interested to see more representation.

Modifié par Secretlyapotato, 13 septembre 2013 - 12:40 .

[sandalisthemaker]

Filament wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

It is not racism, but merely just preserving the narrative integrity of their setting.

It's both.

Go on.

[JerZey CJ]

Taleroth wrote...

Keep in mind that Thedas, as we know it, is only a single continent. The Qunari come from some place not even on the map.

It's actually kind of bizarre how isolated Thedas is. Same thing with Tamriel from Elder Scrolls. Why does nobody try finding trade routes with the other continents?

Off topic: Because the other two land masses are separated by ocean and the denizens of Tamriel generally don't want to interact with them and they feel the same way.

[billy the squid]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

Oh, one last thing before I bow out.

Sandal, the majority of people here disagree with you, and you make snide comments calling them trolls and aggressively attack what they say?

Which one of us is the actual troll? Think.

Bye.

Sandal is too privileged to accept any contrary position. One might call it bigotry.

[Hazegurl]

Angrywolves wrote...

I expected people to argue because they like to argue on the BSN.
Way too much.

Come here often?

[Palidane]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

greengoron89 wrote...
Europe - the region on which Thedas is based I might add - is made up predominantly of "whites", so yes... non-whites are the "other" (which you seem to see as a bad thing for some reason). It would be no different than seeing a non-Chinese person in China. They're the odd one out. That's a simple fact.

Just wanted to chime in there. You may resume your "minority" pity party.

Well Thedas isn't Europe.

Oh please. Enough of this circular argument. You want to know why Thedas is predominantly white? I'll tell you exactly why: because Bioware said so. Thedosian humans, besides Rivaini, are white. That's how it is. Now, some people take exception to this and launch on a huge Social Justice Crusade about minorities being marginalized in the media etc etc. And they have every right too. That doesn't, however, change the fact that everyone in mainland Thedas is white.

You can blame Bioware for designing the setting that way, but that ship has sailed. They're not going to retcon established lore to help somebodies Social Justice cause. If you want asians in Dragon Age, then look to find them on Par Vollen or on distant continents. But do not expect the Anderfels to suddenyl and inexplicably be asian-land.

[lady_v23]

BSN loves to fight. Err sorry, Discuss deep themes and hypothetical solutions in a totally not snaky way.

[sandalisthemaker]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Perhaps YOU should look at every other line beforehand.

They aren't going to include other races just to include other races. If they introduce different looking peoples - whether those be dwarves who are ten feet tall, birdmen who can fly across the sea or other humans that look Asian - that is up to the Bioware team. If they do so, it will be explained with lore reasons, likely that they are a rare type of people to seen in Thedas and would require an explanation.

This limits the appearance of individuals of such an appearance to either extremely small, limited groups, or some large scale event, such as an invasion or migration, which would explain why, suddenly, we see people with this appearance everywhere. Again - this appearance could be a reflection of a real-life ethnic race or a fantastical race, such as a Man-Giraffe-Dogs. 

Regardless, the setting says there are currently no Asians. And Bioware is sticking to that unless they introduce a logical, lore-dependent reason for that changing. It is not racism, but merely just preserving the narrative integrity of their setting.

My point is that if Asian looking people suddenly appeared out of the blue, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Even if you or others do.  They don't need an explanation, but if Bioware wants to give us one, that's their prerogative. 

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 13 septembre 2013 - 12:50 .

[Hazegurl]

Right, Bioware decided that the area they will focus on will be mostly white. They have a right to make that choice cause it's their game. I wouldn't mind seeing other races but they should be few if they don't belong to that area. If Bioware ever expands the map then awesome, let the "Asians" and "Indians" come. I would love it! Although I know some people will complain about the setting and "integrity of the story" anyway like they wrote the freaking story themselves. lol! In the meantime, create any race you want for your PC and have a ball.

@Sandel, I see your pov and I would not mind bumping into some asian looking characters. Thedas have ships so I would believe it. But the games have gone on too long without them in it and now some explanation is sort of needed. I can understand a lone pirate, a merchant, or.....ah screw it.

Just freaking open the flood gates and go crazy with the character creator Bioware!! Why the heck not. When I think about it now the freaking elves have been redone again and again, the Qunari are all over the place. Why the heck not make Thedas one giant retcon melting pot with the new game engine?  Is it really worth it to argue lore when the entire races of some creatures are dramatically different from game to game?

Let's stop arguing and have some fun.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 13 septembre 2013 - 01:01 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Filament wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

It is not racism, but merely just preserving the narrative integrity of their setting.

It's both.

Is it? I'm not convinced.

If you had a game take place in an alternate-world Ancient Egypt, would it be racist to have no white or Latino people in it? It would seem kind of silly to include someone of a different race than what would make sense in the setting you chose. 

Does the setting you are creating allow for fast travel across large distances? Would it make sense that people who would need to be separated by very large distances to build up the genetic diversity to appear as truly a different race suddenly be able to co-mingle and be seen across the general populace? Such differences would exist for ten, maybe fifteen generations. But 300+ more years down the line? Those distinct racial traits would rapidly fade to the point where there was no race anymore, it would just be humans, with different reflections of the mix of features based on variability. 

To have a lore where people with different racially identifiable traits live side by side for hundreds, even thousands of years (like what we have seen in the DA timeline) suggests pretty much one thing - segregated relationships, where only those of a certain set of physical traits would enter into relationships and procreate. 

The implications of a game saying THAT is, to me, MUCH MORE offensive than saying that people in a pre-industrial society, with no common and easy way to travel long distances, look very similar. Now... why the setting was chosen to be one where a largely Anglo-Saxon resembling population is interesting, for sure. But to say that everyone who choses an industry-familiar, fantasy European-esque setting is racist is a pretty large statement. That basically is calling a whole host of writers, directors and authors racist. 

[Fast Jimmy]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Perhaps YOU should look at every other line beforehand.

They aren't going to include other races just to include other races. If they introduce different looking peoples - whether those be dwarves who are ten feet tall, birdmen who can fly across the sea or other humans that look Asian - that is up to the Bioware team. If they do so, it will be explained with lore reasons, likely that they are a rare type of people to seen in Thedas and would require an explanation.

This limits the appearance of individuals of such an appearance to either extremely small, limited groups, or some large scale event, such as an invasion or migration, which would explain why, suddenly, we see people with this appearance everywhere. Again - this appearance could be a reflection of a real-life ethnic race or a fantastical race, such as a Man-Giraffe-Dogs. 

Regardless, the setting says there are currently no Asians. And Bioware is sticking to that unless they introduce a logical, lore-dependent reason for that changing. It is not racism, but merely just preserving the narrative integrity of their setting.

My point is that if Asian looking people suddenly appeared out of the blue, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Even if you or others do.  They don't need an explanation, but if Bioware wants to give us one, that's their prerogative. 

And, yet, they have stated their prerogative is to not do so unless they do have some other way of making it happen other than "out of the blue."

So... end of conversation?

[slimgrin]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Why don't we shove some south americans into the game to, while we're at it? Maybe an eskimo people and some new zealanders to really diversify the continent.

Thedas's population doesn't need to be a multi-racial cornucopia, especially when there are probably other continents in the world than just thedas.

This tiresome tripe again?

I was going to say that about the OP.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Why don't we shove some south americans into the game to, while we're at it? Maybe an eskimo people and some new zealanders to really diversify the continent.

Thedas's population doesn't need to be a multi-racial cornucopia, especially when there are probably other continents in the world than just thedas with these groups. Asian cultures didn't even travel outside of their countrys except on exploritoral missions, they were highly isolationist. I don't see why that shouldn't be the case for any asian equivilant race in thedas as well.

South America doesn't exist, neither does any of the places from our world, you know what else doesn't exist in Thedas? Europe.

Nice one.

Great comback there, champ. But that doesn't explain anything of your badly worded, erroneous in terms of grammar post.

So because europe doesn't exist, you should have asians in the game, because reasons?

And why not?  If Bioware wants to include people with Asian features, they can.

Where did they come from? What nation do they hail from? What is that nations terms with the rest of thedas? Does thedas even know it exist?

There's a lot more to being a race than just a skintone and facial features. If you're just throwing it in there for no other reason than for it to exist, why can't you do so with more fantastical things? Like lizardmen? Or cat people?

Why do the people of Thedas have to be sorely Caucasian in appearence?

Rivian is dark skinned.

[lady_v23]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

Are you guys China be funny?









(sorry)

:lol::lol: