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Asians in DAI.


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#101
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Fast Jimmy wrote...
But to say that everyone who choses an industry-familiar, fantasy European-esque setting is racist is a pretty large statement. That basically is calling a whole host of writers, directors and authors racist. 

K, where do I sign?

I just think it's a little convenient that he's kind of having it both ways. It's not medieval Europe, but it kinda is, and if it was, medieval Europe totally had black people so that's OK, but not Asians, except when it does. I understand there is probably a difference in degree, particularly around the mediterranean, without researching historical population records or whatever. But there is no mediterranean equivalent in Thedas separating not-Europe from not-Africa, because Thedas is not Europe, but black people just happen to be there anyway, because Europe totally did so that's OK.

Which apparently, according to you, would also imply disgusting self-segregation, but I think that's a bit of a silly train of thought anyway.

#102
Billy-the-Squid

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greengoron89 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

And, yet, they have stated their prerogative is to not do so unless they do have some other way of making it happen other than "out of the blue."

So... end of conversation?


Sounds perfectly logical to me. Phoning in random Asian-looking NPCs just for the sake of having them there is hella dumb tbh.


I'm outraged by such a privileged post, you're not enlightened enough to realise that sacrificing vermisilitude of a game on the alter of social justice is the only way world injustices can be addressed. 

#103
lady_v23

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greengoron89 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

And, yet, they have stated their prerogative is to not do so unless they do have some other way of making it happen other than "out of the blue."

So... end of conversation?


Sounds perfectly logical to me. Phoning in random Asian-looking NPCs just for the sake of having them there is hella dumb tbh.


..um?  Should there be a reason why a random npc is asian?? 

should there be a reason why a random npc is white or black?? 

There shouldn't be.  Because they are random npcs.:blink:

Modifié par lady_v23, 13 septembre 2013 - 01:05 .


#104
OLDIRTYBARON

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I wonder if Japanese RPG message boards rant and rage about the under-representation of white/hispanic/indian/black people in their fantasy games.

I'm guessing probably not.

#105
Billy-the-Squid

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lady_v23 wrote...

greengoron89 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

And, yet, they have stated their prerogative is to not do so unless they do have some other way of making it happen other than "out of the blue."

So... end of conversation?


Sounds perfectly logical to me. Phoning in random Asian-looking NPCs just for the sake of having them there is hella dumb tbh.


..um?  Should there be a reason why a random npc is asian?? 

should there be a reason why a random npc is white or black?? 

There shouldn't be.  Because they are random npcs.:blink:



Nope, I also want a new clan of elves from the north with blue skin. 

#106
lady_v23

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Tequila Cat wrote...

lady_v23 wrote...

greengoron89 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

And, yet, they have stated their prerogative is to not do so unless they do have some other way of making it happen other than "out of the blue."

So... end of conversation?


Sounds perfectly logical to me. Phoning in random Asian-looking NPCs just for the sake of having them there is hella dumb tbh.


..um?  Should there be a reason why a random npc is asian?? 

should there be a reason why a random npc is white or black?? 

There shouldn't be.  Because they are random npcs.:blink:



Nope, I also want a new clan of elves from the north with blue skin. 


wrong game.:lol:

#107
Billy-the-Squid

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OLDIRTYBARON wrote...

I wonder if Japanese RPG message boards rant and rage about the under-representation of white/hispanic/indian/black people in their fantasy games.

I'm guessing probably not.


 Your post is racist and you should feel guilt, check your privilege.

#108
Cainhurst Crow

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If you want to make your character "asian" in the game, I guess you could. But I don't understand the argument of the others in this thread for wanting asian featured characters, but without wanting any sort of interesting backstory or lore behind them.

Madness I say, utter madness.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 13 septembre 2013 - 01:10 .


#109
OLDIRTYBARON

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Tequila Cat wrote...

OLDIRTYBARON wrote...

I wonder if Japanese RPG message boards rant and rage about the under-representation of white/hispanic/indian/black people in their fantasy games.

I'm guessing probably not.


 Your post is racist and you should feel guilt, check your privilege.


You should check your privilege since I am an Indian (feather) who has been ostensibly held back by white privilege for my entire life! :bandit:

In all seriousness I find it funny when people pull the privilege card on me. Most often it's white people. Double the irony.

#110
Cainhurst Crow

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Tequila Cat wrote...

lady_v23 wrote...

greengoron89 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

And, yet, they have stated their prerogative is to not do so unless they do have some other way of making it happen other than "out of the blue."

So... end of conversation?


Sounds perfectly logical to me. Phoning in random Asian-looking NPCs just for the sake of having them there is hella dumb tbh.


..um?  Should there be a reason why a random npc is asian?? 

should there be a reason why a random npc is white or black?? 

There shouldn't be.  Because they are random npcs.:blink:



Nope, I also want a new clan of elves from the north with blue skin. 


Not before we get catpeople qunari first.

#111
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OLDIRTYBARON wrote...

I wonder if Japanese RPG message boards rant and rage about the under-representation of white/hispanic/indian/black people in their fantasy games.

I'm guessing probably not.


Even Japanese people aren't commonly represented in Japanese games. It's very noticable when the models actually have black hair and "asian" eyes. Most of the time, "anime" is practically its own ethnicity.

#112
Hazegurl

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imo, all anime characters look white, it's very rare for them to have Japanese looking characters, which is a shame cause when they do, they are smoking hot.

#113
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lady_v23 wrote...

..um?  Should there be a reason why a random npc is asian?? 

should there be a reason why a random npc is white or black?? 

There shouldn't be.  Because they are random npcs.:blink:


You wouldn't want these characters to have a unique ethnic and/or cultural heritage within the DA universe? They're obviously different from the Fereldans, Orlesians, Antivans, Rivainis, etc. Or do you mean to imply that they're not worthy of a backstory?

OLDIRTYBARON wrote...

You should check your privilege since I am an Indian (feather) who has been ostensibly held back by white privilege for my entire life! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/bandit.png[/smilie]


No.

Modifié par greengoron89, 13 septembre 2013 - 01:15 .


#114
In Exile

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Darth Brotarian wrote...

If you want to make your character "asian" in the game, I guess you could. But I don't understand the argument of the others in this thread for wanting asian featured characters, but without wanting any sort of interesting backstory or lore behind them.


The correct argument would be to drop this underlying racist idea that in a mystical fantasy world All Humans Are White and accept that every fantasy race has the same distribution of skintones and facial features that our own world has IRL. 

#115
Fast Jimmy

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Filament wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...
But to say that everyone who choses an industry-familiar, fantasy European-esque setting is racist is a pretty large statement. That basically is calling a whole host of writers, directors and authors racist. 

K, where do I sign?

I just think it's a little convenient that he's kind of having it both ways. It's not medieval Europe, but it kinda is, and if it was, medieval Europe totally had black people so that's OK, but not Asians, except when it does. I understand there is probably a difference in degree, particularly around the mediterranean, without researching historical population records or whatever. But there is no mediterranean equivalent in Thedas separating not-Europe from not-Africa, because Thedas is not Europe, but black people just happen to be there anyway, because Europe totally did so that's OK.

Which apparently, according to you, would also imply disgusting self-segregation, but I think that's a bit of a silly train of thought anyway.


Well, that's fair that you have that opinion of the writing team (largely, Gaider himself, since he did the vast majority of the heavy lifting early on the world building process, so he could be said to have fashioned the "European-esque, white" Thedas). But I think that is a dfferent thread... "Bioware is racist because there are no Asians in Thedas." Not "There should be Asians in Thedas." I don't personally ascribe to that theory (again... Jade Empire says hello), but you are more than welcome to create a new thread that more clearly states the perceived problem issue.

I would also say that you could consider me going off the rails on that silly train, then. Because its basic genetics - races look alike because they have been breeding together for hudnreds, thousands and even TENS of thousands of years. If you were to mix people with different racial traits together for hundreds or thousands of years, they would cease being separate races merge into a new one, unless, of course, there is reproduction segregation going on... or the constant introduction of new races, as well. You'd need a large, robust population of new race roughly every couple hundred years to stem the tide of a 1,000 years of co-mingling. And even then... that would likely result in a roughyl equivalent number of integrated racial traits, not preservations of the original racial traits entirely.

Yes, it is fantasy. And yes, it is fiction. Bioware's fiction, in fact. So they can do whatever they please. But just like if they suddenly included airplanes or samurai swords out of the blue, or magic suddenly required a short wand and the incantation of silly words like "Expeliarmus" or "Tarantallegra" like some fictional lore does, changing the setting that has been established with no attempt at an explanation hurts the narrative. In my opinion and, apparently, in Bioware's.

So... make the Fex turn out to look Asian? Cool. No one's talked about what they look like and we haven't seen them in any visual media, so I'd be fine with it. Have an odd looking ship arrive on the coast, looking battle damaged and full of strange looking humans? Sign me up.

Turn random NPC's in the Orlesian market to suddenly represent every conceivable ethnicity in our real world with no real background of what's going on? Nope. That sounds like bad story telling and narrative consistency. 

#116
lady_v23

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greengoron89 wrote...

lady_v23 wrote...

..um?  Should there be a reason why a random npc is asian?? 

should there be a reason why a random npc is white or black?? 

There shouldn't be.  Because they are random npcs.:blink:


You wouldn't want these characters to have a unique ethnic and/or cultural heritage within the DA universe? They're obviously different from the Fereldans, Orlesians, Antivans, Rivainis, etc. Or do you mean to imply that they're not worthy of a backstory?

OLDIRTYBARON wrote...

You should check your privilege since I am an Indian (feather) who has been ostensibly held back by white privilege for my entire life! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/bandit.png[/smilie]


No.


  Who said a asian looking npc can't be fereldan, orlesian, antivan etc.  And maybe they exist somewhere in thedas? we don't know.  It could happen.:lol:

Modifié par lady_v23, 13 septembre 2013 - 01:19 .


#117
Cainhurst Crow

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In Exile wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

If you want to make your character "asian" in the game, I guess you could. But I don't understand the argument of the others in this thread for wanting asian featured characters, but without wanting any sort of interesting backstory or lore behind them.


The correct argument would be to drop this underlying racist idea that in a mystical fantasy world All Humans Are White and accept that every fantasy race has the same distribution of skintones and facial features that our own world has IRL. 


So all of that goes on, but there's absolutely no racism in thedas over it? Like, for some reason everyone is racist as hell to everything that looks even slightly different from them, like elves and dwarves, but when it comes to humans we're all in some weird 90's cartoon one world one people harmony?

I don't buy it. Thedas isn't some utopia, there would be racist as **** people discrimination against dark skinned rivians and any other nationality and race that wasn't like them, and vice versa.

#118
Palidane

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In Exile wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

If you want to make your character "asian" in the game, I guess you could. But I don't understand the argument of the others in this thread for wanting asian featured characters, but without wanting any sort of interesting backstory or lore behind them.


The correct argument would be to drop this underlying racist idea that in a mystical fantasy world All Humans Are White and accept that every fantasy race has the same distribution of skintones and facial features that our own world has IRL. 

Uhuh. And what if Bioware refuses to accept that every fantasy race has every real life skintone? What if they decide that Asians just don't exist?

#119
Darkclown1000

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This topics just ridiculous...

#120
The Six Path of Pain

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Honestly does it really matter? As far as i'm concerned in Thedas your not considered a different race unless you have pointy ears,are really short,or are really tall and possibly have horns on your head.
P.S. There's also the Fex but we have no idea what they look like. /:

#121
Fast Jimmy

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In Exile wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

If you want to make your character "asian" in the game, I guess you could. But I don't understand the argument of the others in this thread for wanting asian featured characters, but without wanting any sort of interesting backstory or lore behind them.


The correct argument would be to drop this underlying racist idea that in a mystical fantasy world All Humans Are White and accept that every fantasy race has the same distribution of skintones and facial features that our own world has IRL. 


Our world is quite unnatural. Technology has allowed in decades what basic geography has prevented for millenia. Our current racial state, a "rainbow" of ethnicities in industrialized nations, is very much non-sustainable, from a biological point of view. Racial features will gradually become a thing of the past if the current trends and activities continue for the next 500 years. 

Given that humans have been in Thedas for closer to 5,000 years, then it makes perfect biological sense that most would look quite similar. Arguably, given the barriers to fast travel, it would actually make sense for Thedas to have MORE racial diversity in 1,000 years from the game's current point in time than we would see in our real world in 1,000 more years in time.

#122
sandalisthemaker

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

Filament wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...
But to say that everyone who choses an industry-familiar, fantasy European-esque setting is racist is a pretty large statement. That basically is calling a whole host of writers, directors and authors racist. 

K, where do I sign?

I just think it's a little convenient that he's kind of having it both ways. It's not medieval Europe, but it kinda is, and if it was, medieval Europe totally had black people so that's OK, but not Asians, except when it does. I understand there is probably a difference in degree, particularly around the mediterranean, without researching historical population records or whatever. But there is no mediterranean equivalent in Thedas separating not-Europe from not-Africa, because Thedas is not Europe, but black people just happen to be there anyway, because Europe totally did so that's OK.

Which apparently, according to you, would also imply disgusting self-segregation, but I think that's a bit of a silly train of thought anyway.


Well, that's fair that you have that opinion of the writing team (largely, Gaider himself, since he did the vast majority of the heavy lifting early on the world building process, so he could be said to have fashioned the "European-esque, white" Thedas). But I think that is a dfferent thread... "Bioware is racist because there are no Asians in Thedas." Not "There should be Asians in Thedas." I don't personally ascribe to that theory (again... Jade Empire says hello), but you are more than welcome to create a new thread that more clearly states the perceived problem issue.

I would also say that you could consider me going off the rails on that silly train, then. Because its basic genetics - races look alike because they have been breeding together for hudnreds, thousands and even TENS of thousands of years. If you were to mix people with different racial traits together for hundreds or thousands of years, they would cease being separate races merge into a new one, unless, of course, there is reproduction segregation going on... or the constant introduction of new races, as well. You'd need a large, robust population of new race roughly every couple hundred years to stem the tide of a 1,000 years of co-mingling. And even then... that would likely result in a roughyl equivalent number of integrated racial traits, not preservations of the original racial traits entirely.

Yes, it is fantasy. And yes, it is fiction. Bioware's fiction, in fact. So they can do whatever they please. But just like if they suddenly included airplanes or samurai swords out of the blue, or magic suddenly required a short wand and the incantation of silly words like "Expeliarmus" or "Tarantallegra" like some fictional lore does, changing the setting that has been established with no attempt at an explanation hurts the narrative. In my opinion and, apparently, in Bioware's.

So... make the Fex turn out to look Asian? Cool. No one's talked about what they look like and we haven't seen them in any visual media, so I'd be fine with it. Have an odd looking ship arrive on the coast, looking battle damaged and full of strange looking humans? Sign me up.

Turn random NPC's in the Orlesian market to suddenly represent every conceivable ethnicity in our real world with no real background of what's going on? Nope. That sounds like bad story telling and narrative consistency. 


Must you constantly lump Asian looking NPC's with bizarre, ridiculous, anomalous things, like airplanes in Thedas, or the "birdmen" in your other post.  It's very unbecoming.
Same thing with the boat full of "strange looking humans."

#123
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In Exile wrote...

The correct argument would be to drop this underlying racist idea that in a mystical fantasy world All Humans Are White and accept that every fantasy race has the same distribution of skintones and facial features that our own world has IRL. 


That's up to the author of said fantasy universe.

#124
Cainhurst Crow

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The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Honestly does it really matter? As far as i'm concerned in Thedas your not considered a different race unless you have pointy ears,are really short,or are really tall and possibly have horns on your head.
P.S. There's also the Fex but we have no idea what they look like. /:


Must suck being a human midget, always getting called a dwarf and told to go sod back to orzammar.

#125
sandalisthemaker

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Darth Brotarian wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

If you want to make your character "asian" in the game, I guess you could. But I don't understand the argument of the others in this thread for wanting asian featured characters, but without wanting any sort of interesting backstory or lore behind them.


The correct argument would be to drop this underlying racist idea that in a mystical fantasy world All Humans Are White and accept that every fantasy race has the same distribution of skintones and facial features that our own world has IRL. 


So all of that goes on, but there's absolutely no racism in thedas over it? Like, for some reason everyone is racist as hell to everything that looks even slightly different from them, like elves and dwarves, but when it comes to humans we're all in some weird 90's cartoon one world one people harmony?

I don't buy it. Thedas isn't some utopia, there would be racist as **** people discrimination against dark skinned rivians and any other nationality and race that wasn't like them, and vice versa.

So.... you want human-human racism then?