392 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

David you're trying to critcize something because the character isn't a good guy

[David7204]

If the audience doesn't care about the protagonist, yes, the story is incredibly bad.

And if the protagonist is evil, selfish, or unlikeable, why on Earth should they care?

[jontepwn]

David7204 wrote...

If the audience doesn't care about the protagonist, yes, the story is incredibly bad.

And if the protagonist is evil, selfish, or unlikeable, why on Earth should they care?

And by audience, you mean yourself? Stop pretending like you speak for everyone.

[Zu Long]

Xilizhra wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Meaningful conflict is the soul of drama.

There's no drama and no story in watching two people you don't care about in conflict. And why should audiences care about evil and unlikeable characters? They shouldn't, and they don't. Thus you almost never have 'evil' protagonists in fiction. Because audiences rightfully don't care what happens to such people.

How would evil characters be likeable?

The Boss does it by being funny as hell. Also by being slightly less evil than whoever he or she happens to be up against.

[AresKeith]

Herr Uhl wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

David7204 wrote...

The point is, you can't put evil and unlikeable characters in linear games and say 'Oh, it's okay since it's a linear game. It's okay since the player doesn't get to choose.'

No, it's not okay. It's not okay in other fiction, and it's not okay in linear video games.

Cole from Infamous can be evil and well likeable

KOTOR can have evil characters and likeable

You get the choice in those games. Booker does what he wants. I'm not saying that you can't have an unlikeable protagonist, but Kotor and Infamous are bad examples.

That was more towards him thinking evil characters can't work in games

Honestly ToU is the only expample I can think of using, but he hasn't played that game either

Xilizhra wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Meaningful conflict is the soul of drama. 

There's no drama and no story in watching two people you don't care about in conflict. And why should audiences care about evil and unlikeable characters? They shouldn't, and they don't. Thus you almost never have 'evil' protagonists in fiction. Because audiences rightfully don't care what happens to such people. 

How would evil characters be likeable?

You don't play many games do you?

Modifié par AresKeith, 15 septembre 2013 - 12:46 .

[SlottsMachine]

 Everyone seems to love Darth Vader!

[Xilizhra]

You don't play many games do you?

I was asking for David's perspective. I find my own Sith Inquisitor likable enough, although she's as light-sided as possible.

[David7204]

I think we all need to keep in mind this only applies to drama. Obviously, protagonists are routinely sociopathic in comedy. Because it's funny.

[Herr Uhl]

AresKeith wrote...

Honestly ToU is the only expample I can think of using, but he hasn't played that game either

What is ToU?

[Xilizhra]

David7204 wrote...

I think we all need to keep in mind this only applies to drama. Obviously, protagonists are routinely sociopathic in comedy. Because it's funny.

Strangely, I rarely do find that funny.

[Maria Caliban]

Xilizhra wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Meaningful conflict is the soul of drama.

There's no drama and no story in watching two people you don't care about in conflict. And why should audiences care about evil and unlikeable characters? They shouldn't, and they don't. Thus you almost never have 'evil' protagonists in fiction. Because audiences rightfully don't care what happens to such people.

How would evil characters be likeable?

Says the poster with the Morinth avatar.


Edit:

Xilizhra wrote...

I was asking for David's perspective. I find my own Sith Inquisitor likable enough, although she's as light-sided as possible.

Ahhhh.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 15 septembre 2013 - 12:50 .

[AresKeith]

Herr Uhl wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Honestly TLoU is the only expample I can think of using, but he hasn't played that game either

What is TLoU?

The Last of Us, forgot the L whoops 

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

I think we all need to keep in mind this only applies to drama. Obviously, protagonists are routinely sociopathic in comedy. Because it's funny.

Maybe you should play some of these games your trying to knock down because the protagonists aren't "good guys"

[Plaintiff]

David7204 wrote...

Meaningful conflict is the soul of drama.

There's no drama and no story in watching two people you don't care about in conflict.

And if you don't care, nobody else does?

And why should audiences care about evil and unlikeable characters?

'Evil' is subjective and 'evil' does not automatically equate to 'unlikeable' in any case. Some of the most popular characters in pop culture are villains. People will forgive a lot if a character has charisma.

They shouldn't, and they don't.

But they do.

Thus you almost never have 'evil' protagonists in fiction.

Again, subjective. From my point of view most stories in media today, especially television series, are driven by casts populated almost entirely by awful people. Sons of Anarchy, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Desperate Housewives and Glee are five very popular shows I can think of just off the top of my head that are populated almost entirely by despicable, awful, selfish people, and the plots revolve around these awful, selfish people betraying each other constantly.

Because audiences rightfully don't care what happens to such people.

The popularity of the programs I just mentioned would suggest otherwise. Not to mention all the movies and videogames that feature protagonists who make livings as mercenaries, assassins and thieves.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 15 septembre 2013 - 12:53 .

[David7204]

I'm not 'knocking down' any games because I don't know of any games where the protagonist is intentionally made evil.

[The Antagonist]

damnit quoted the wrong person

Modifié par codenamesource, 15 septembre 2013 - 12:51 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

I enjoyed the hell out of Saints Row 4 in spite of the fact that the Boss is objectively a terrible person.

How dare you? She's not terrible; she's just a puckish rogue!

Anyone who d*ck punches aliens with that kind of righteous fury can't be that bad.

[Maria Caliban]

David7204 wrote...

I'm not 'knocking down' any games because I don't know of any games where the protagonist is intentionally made evil.

The Kain series springs to mind.

[The Antagonist]

General Slotts wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That sounds to me like a pretty damn big lie from the developers. Putting entire gameplay concepts in trailers that are completely absent in the game?

LOL. You have a link to this trailer, or are you just talking out your ass again?

Either way. Nobody cares all that much about Infinite. 

it's 2011 e3 footage

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

David7204 wrote...

I'm not 'knocking down' any games because I don't know of any games where the protagonist is intentionally made evil.

Overlord

Tropico

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 15 septembre 2013 - 12:52 .

[AresKeith]

Speaking of likeable evil characters: Zinyak from Saints Row 4, Raul Menendez Black Ops 2

[Zu Long]

Plaintiff wrote...

Again, subjective. From my point of view most stories in media today, especially television series, are driven by casts populated almost entirely by awful people. Sons of Anarchy, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Desperate Housewives and Glee are five shows I can think of just off the top of my head that are populated almost entirely by despicable, awful, selfish people, and the plots revolve around these awul, selfish people betraying each other constantly.

Which explains why I have nearly stopped watching Television outside of Mythbusters, Whose Line is it Anyway, and the Daily Show.

[Zu Long]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

I enjoyed the hell out of Saints Row 4 in spite of the fact that the Boss is objectively a terrible person.

How dare you? She's not terrible; she's just a puckish rogue!

XD. Well played.