392 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

Why are we comparing apples and oranges again? Yes, I know, they're both fruit, but not every fruit is the same and you shouldn't compare one type of fruit to a completely different type all together.

[Fast Jimmy]

So many things in this thread give me a headache, especially when talking about Bioshock Infinite. But since this is a DA forum, I'll stick with this one.

Dragon Age: Origins in particular. They just oversell the threat of the blight, without really being able to pay off on it in the end. It's the trapping of going all "Tolkein" in the written lore department. They talk about the First Blight of Dumat as this grand, century's-long campaign, and then the Fifth blight is over in a couple days. (I actually think it's more like 2 months in game time)

For the record, the story of DA:O takes the place over the course of a year, as per a conversation with Wynne. Something along the lines of "You have been a Warden, struggling against this threat for close to a year now. How does it feel?"

It is assumed, through abstraction, that travel back and forth across Ferelden takes untracked, long amounts of time.


Except, of course, when you are in Redcliffe and then the very next day travel to Denerim (since the Dark Ritual had to be done the night before the Archdemok was slain). An oversight Gaider has acknolwedged and, essentially, said was no big deal.

[Deflagratio]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

So many things in this thread give me a headache, especially when talking about Bioshock Infinite. But since this is a DA forum, I'll stick with this one.

Dragon Age: Origins in particular. They just oversell the threat of the blight, without really being able to pay off on it in the end. It's the trapping of going all "Tolkein" in the written lore department. They talk about the First Blight of Dumat as this grand, century's-long campaign, and then the Fifth blight is over in a couple days. (I actually think it's more like 2 months in game time)

For the record, the story of DA:O takes the place over the course of a year, as per a conversation with Wynne. Something along the lines of "You have been a Warden, struggling against this threat for close to a year now. How does it feel?"

It is assumed, through abstraction, that travel back and forth across Ferelden takes untracked, long amounts of time.


Except, of course, when you are in Redcliffe and then the very next day travel to Denerim (since the Dark Ritual had to be done the night before the Archdemok was slain). An oversight Gaider has acknolwedged and, essentially, said was no big deal.

Oh snap. I forgot about that conversation. Well played.

Still, don't you feel even a year sells the threat of the Blight a little short?

I suppose here's the point where I referesh everyone's memory that DA:O is one of my favorite games of all time... I'm not trying to attack it as a great piece of work.

Modifié par Deflagratio, 14 septembre 2013 - 09:03 .

[Fredward]

Deflagratio wrote...
Still, don't you feel even a year sells the threat of the Blight a little short?

Yes. It's considered the least of the Blights by a fat margin. It was handled very, very quickly. It still did a significant amount of damage even in such a short span of time for Fereldan still to be recovering a decade later.

[AlanC9]

That's kind of the point. The Fifth Blight isn't very bad as Blights go, precisely because the Warder and co. stop it before Ferelden is overrun. That's why the Warden is a Big Damn Hero.

Modifié par AlanC9, 14 septembre 2013 - 09:09 .

[Deflagratio]

It's definitely a great strategic blunder on part of Urthemeil to make himself vulnerable so early in the Blight. I don't think Dumat ever appeared on the field until the entire Alliances of Thedas and the Grey Wardens managed to start pushing the Darkspawn back, winning significant battles. Dumat appeared out of an act of desperation.

Then again Urthemeil was the Tevinter god of Beauty, and perhaps the vanity of his own power deluded the Archdemon into thinking he was a "Pretty Big deal".

[The Elder King]

I think it was implied that Dumat was killed several times (or it was outright stated in the codex). It seems logical that this happened, otherwise how anybody could know that a Warden (a living being with the taint controlled) is necessary to kill an archdemon?(some) People should've noticed that after killing Dumat it possessed a nearly darkspawn. Otherwise they'd have no reason to believe that a normal man couldn't kill an archdemon.

[The Elder King]

Plus, from what Duncan said to Bryce and Howe in the HN origin, it's implied that archdemons appeared early during the a Blight.

[Fast Jimmy]

Deflagratio wrote...

It's definitely a great strategic blunder on part of Urthemeil to make himself vulnerable so early in the Blight. I don't think Dumat ever appeared on the field until the entire Alliances of Thedas and the Grey Wardens managed to start pushing the Darkspawn back, winning significant battles. Dumat appeared out of an act of desperation.

Then again Urthemeil was the Tevinter god of Beauty, and perhaps the vanity of his own power deluded the Archdemon into thinking he was a "Pretty Big deal".

Agreed. I think Urthemiel was the nancy boy of Archdemons. Dumat would have thumped up the Warden and spit out his LI's bones, in my opinion. 

[Deflagratio]

hhh89 wrote...

I think it was implied that Dumat was killed several times (or it was outright stated in the codex). It seems logical that this happened, otherwise how anybody could know that a Warden (a living being with the taint controlled) is necessary to kill an archdemon?(some) People should've noticed that after killing Dumat it possessed a nearly darkspawn. Otherwise they'd have no reason to believe that a normal man couldn't kill an archdemon.

That makes sense, since I imagine the discovery that only a Grey Warden could destroy an Archdemon had to come out of Trial and Error really.


Once the form of Dumat (The corrupted High Dragon) how would the Archdemon be identified?


Edit: I'm an idiot, I forgot about The Calling all Darkspawn/Wardens hear.

Modifié par Deflagratio, 14 septembre 2013 - 09:32 .

[phunx]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Why are we comparing apples and oranges again? Yes, I know, they're both fruit, but not every fruit is the same and you shouldn't compare one type of fruit to a completely different type all together.

Yes people do it all the time, I have no idea why. I don't see how you can compare those narratives really.

[Deflagratio]

phunx wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Why are we comparing apples and oranges again? Yes, I know, they're both fruit, but not every fruit is the same and you shouldn't compare one type of fruit to a completely different type all together.

Yes people do it all the time, I have no idea why. I don't see how you can compare those narratives really.

Comparing them isn't as mundane as you might think. Look back a few pages, maybe the first three, and see the discussion and interpretations of the Bioshock: Infinite narrative, plot and characters. Same game, limitless experiences.

How is that not something that every game can strive for? Even if you didn't like Bioshock: Infinite, you can at least appriciate that level of openess and reflection in the narrative I hope.

[Dominus]

I'm cautiously optimistic.

I believe they mentioned planescape as one of the main influences/inspirations of the game, and the game is generally hailed as being a breakthrough in video game storylining. I'm not exactly counting on the inquisitor to update his journal right before using a piece of junk to activate a portal and ask where the lady of pain is, but it's likely to be a noticable upgrade over Dragon Age II.

Modifié par DominusVita, 14 septembre 2013 - 10:21 .

[MisterMonkeyBanana]

I'm not so much worried about the overarching story, which will probably suffer because of the sheer amount of stuff the player has to do alongside all the optional content, but rather the main plot sets up a good framework for all those other little plots. Though I still hope the main plot is good, or at least, not bad,

Dragon Age: Origins did that well, in a "let's introduce all the major players of the world to you" way, Mass Effect 2 did that -really- well, but the main plot was absolutely awful. Dragon Age 2 had some really good plotlines (and I really think the confrontation with the Arishok was the emotional climax of the game and would have been better as an endgame overall), but also that cave.

Modifié par MisterMonkeyBanana, 14 septembre 2013 - 11:07 .

[Ailith Tycane]

VampireSoap wrote...

In Exile wrote...

I doubt Bioware tries to go for mindscrew two games in a row.

I didn't think Bioshock Infinite had that good of a plot. This isn't the thread for it, but that ending falls apart when you think your way through it. On the unspeakably evil moral implications alone.

<Sigh> I knew someone's gonna complain about the Bioshock Infinite ending and then start a whole page of conversations that are completely irrelevant to the topic. I probably shouldn't have chosen that title.

No you shouldn't have. Bioshock Infinite is a completely different kind of game from DAI.

[Mr Fixit]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

It's really hard to pull off a "Great and catastrophic war" theme in  even a 50 hour game.

Yet they're able to do it in 2 hour movies.

Which movie did you have in mind?

[Ailith Tycane]

Mr Fixit wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

It's really hard to pull off a "Great and catastrophic war" theme in  even a 50 hour game.

Yet they're able to do it in 2 hour movies.

Which movie did you have in mind?

Saving Private Ryan, Braveheart, Tora Tora Tora, Kingdom of Heaven...

[Deflagratio]

Ailith430 wrote...

Mr Fixit wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

It's really hard to pull off a "Great and catastrophic war" theme in  even a 50 hour game.

Yet they're able to do it in 2 hour movies.

Which movie did you have in mind?

Saving Private Ryan, Braveheart, Tora Tora Tora, Kingdom of Heaven...

Pity that you can cut and edit a movie in ways that would utterly destroy the cohesion of a videogame. It can happen for sure. But it's hard to make the player an active participatent in a true "War" narrative when you cut everything but the tender vittles of epic battle set pieces.


If comparing Bioshock to Dragon Age is Apples and Oranges, comparing Dragon Age to any film is like comparing Apples to a Pulsar.

[Ailith Tycane]

Deflagratio wrote...

Ailith430 wrote...

Mr Fixit wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

It's really hard to pull off a "Great and catastrophic war" theme in  even a 50 hour game.

Yet they're able to do it in 2 hour movies.

Which movie did you have in mind?

Saving Private Ryan, Braveheart, Tora Tora Tora, Kingdom of Heaven...

Pity that you can cut and edit a movie in ways that would utterly destroy the cohesion of a videogame. It can happen for sure. But it's hard to make the player an active participatent in a true "War" narrative when you cut everything but the tender vittles of epic battle set pieces.


If comparing Bioshock to Dragon Age is Apples and Oranges, comparing Dragon Age to any film is like comparing Apples to a Pulsar.

He asked for examples and I gave it. Honestly I think it's hard to pull off any good quality narative in a video game in less than at least 6 hours, I was just answering his question.

[mickey111]

Sauron-esque villains with an evil mustachio is Biowares bread and butter, so no.

[Ailith Tycane]

mickey111 wrote...

Sauron-esque villains with an evil mustachio is Biowares bread and butter, so no.

And Father Comstock didn't count as an evil mustachioed villain?

[DarthLaxian]

VampireSoap wrote...

Will we remember the game plot even years after playing DAI? And I don't mean the ME3 kind of remember.

Will there be a jaw-dropping revelation at the end of the game that forces us to reexamine our perception of the real world? Will there be a hidden and yet deeply philosophical theme in the game?

In my stupid opinon These are the questions that we should ask. This thread might get locked in about 5 mins but I just want to say I'm not looking to coax a story leak out of anyone. I just want to know if the story in this game will be deep and profound. At the very least, I want to know if the game is story-driven at all...And yes, both Skyrim and Saints Row 4 claimed that they were story-driven games, they aren't.

Bioshock: Infinite does not have a "good" story (it's not bad, but it is not up on DA:O's level certainly not)

as for philosophical questions:

well, why not (as long as those are not cheesy with only one really acceptable answer)

greetings LAX

[David7204]

There's nothing at all wrong with an explictly evil villain. It's the bread of butter of not just BioWare games, but nearly all epic fiction in general.

Also, people tend to seriously overlook some of the writing fumbles of supposedly 'grey' villains. Even the most highly regarded grey villains often do things that don't really hold up well to close examination. Gus Fring from Breaking Bad is a good example.

Modifié par David7204, 14 septembre 2013 - 11:30 .

[Deflagratio]

Ailith430 wrote...

mickey111 wrote...

Sauron-esque villains with an evil mustachio is Biowares bread and butter, so no.

And Father Comstock didn't count as an evil mustachioed villain?

Not in the same vein I don't think. Comstock is a tiny bit closer to the Loghain brand of insane. In that if you think a little bit on it, his motivations aren't for the sake of some Ultimate ***hole award, but for what he believes is ultimate the good of the new world. There's also a bit (Sadly its hidden in the Voxo's) of information on why he finds it necessary to be such a fanatic.

A rational human being can say its insane, and that's my (Our?) perrogative, but as long as you can trace justification, and more importantly, understand what we could call an "End game" plan for them, then it's not as simple as "Orcs kill everything, Sauron smashes people."

[crimzontearz]

Right let's hope not thank you very much I would not buy Bioshock infinite if you paid me