226 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir George Parr]

Bionuts wrote...

I'd love to see Templars try to capture Velanna.

That would be what is known as an 'Epic Fail'. 

[DarkSpider88]

I am pretty sure they wouldn't risk in getting the Wardens to decide to wage war with them too.

[Silfren]

LobselVith8 wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

So we know how templars loathe Grey Warden mages because they aren't under the control of the Chantry and can use any type of magic.Certain templars even try to defy the Grey Wardens by trying to capture mages under their command(Anders).

There are many mages among the Grey Warden ranks plus the Hero of Fereldan could be one of them,and the templars hate the fact that mages are allowed freedom when they are recruited into the Grey Wardens.So do you think they will be crazy enough to start a fight with the Grey Wardens by trying to capture/kill mages in their ranks?

The Red Templars might. Hard to say if Lambert's faction will focus on the mages among the Grey Wardens (and even the Dalish) when it would give them more antagonists to deal with.

I expect we'll see at least one conflict of this nature, since I'd bet money more than a few mages would try to take up residency with the Wardens on the hopes that doing so will exempt them from the Templars' wrath, only to find that at least one faction of Templars no longer care about Warden political immunity. 

I also expect it's possible (logically from a story perspective) that the Grey Wardens will have a hard time making others accept Warden neutrality.  They'd probably be happy to have more mages in their ranks, but I doubt they could afford to induct every mage that showed up (even with the high mortality rate) because of the issues it would create with the templars.  I wonder if conflict management between the Wardens, mages, and Templars will be one of the decisions we face as an Inquisitor, beyond minor quests of rogue Templars attacking the Wardens.

[Angrywolves]

Of course they would.

[TheKomandorShepard]

wardens aren't so strong so they could attack them considering that wardens have few people (well thousand or two) but i bet templar have much more peoples and well they will kick  rebel mages easily so i could see that.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 14 septembre 2013 - 07:44 .

[dragonflight288]

I think they will. There's an in-game precedent already, and that is Ser Rylock in Awakening. She says straight out that her authority supercedes the crown and the centuries old treaties with the Grey Wardens, and set a trap to capture/kill Anders even though he is a Grey Warden.

I have my doubts that she was the first, but she will also will not be the last.

[Former_Fiend]

Well, no one ever accused the templars of being particularly intelligent, and red lyrium does cause mass deportations from the realm of rationality, to quote a clever troper.

I just really hope that the Wardens aren't used to show just how tough the red templars are the way that the STG was used to show how tough Cerberus had become.

[RazorrX]

Ser Rylock overstepped her authority though. During the second blight when The Chantry forces turned and aided the Wardens a bond was formed between the two. The Wardens converted to the Chantry (at least superficially) and the Chantry swore to support the Wardens. An agreement was entered that gave the Wardens the right of Conscription and the ROC allows a mage to be taken from the circle to serve the wardens.

Now it is my understanding that a mage is protected from the chantry unless s/he goes nutso, becomes an abomination, leaves the wardens, etc. As long as the mage is in the wardens they are 'free'. IF they leave the wardens they are to turn themselves into the nearest circle, Failing to do that brands them an apostate.

Now the Red Templars may feel that all agreements are nul and void. But the Chantry loyal Templars should be bound to the agreement between the wardens and the chantry.

[Silfren]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

wardens aren't so strong so they could attack them considering that wardens have few people (well thousand or two) but i bet templar have much more peoples and well they will kick  rebel mages easily so i could see that.

On the contrary, Wardens are by definition the cream of the crop when it comes to being warriors, and they are trained to be utterly ruthless.  The ony real advantage the templars would have is numbers, but there's nothing to say that templars will be roaming the lands in large, cohesive numbers.  I think any groups that attacked Wardens would probably be smaller bands, and that it would be more likely to be an impulsive action, more the result of templars coming across a group of Wardens and choosing to attack them, rather than a planned assault. 

I've thought all along that the templars would break into several factions.  There's a limit to how many the game could show us without getting bogged down, but it makes sense that you'd have Lambert's group and a Loyalist group who refuse to break from the Chantry, and one or two others basing their loyalties on their opinion of the Chantry in general or Justinia in particular--and more than a few rogues, due to the complications of lyrium addiction in this whole mess.  But undoubtedly there will be some templars capable of realizing that going after the Wardens is not the best use of their resources.

[Former_Fiend]

Silfren wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

wardens aren't so strong so they could attack them considering that wardens have few people (well thousand or two) but i bet templar have much more peoples and well they will kick  rebel mages easily so i could see that.

On the contrary, Wardens are by definition the cream of the crop when it comes to being warriors, and they are trained to be utterly ruthless.  The ony real advantage the templars would have is numbers, but there's nothing to say that templars will be roaming the lands in large, cohesive numbers.  I think any groups that attacked Wardens would probably be smaller bands, and that it would be more likely to be an impulsive action, more the result of templars coming across a group of Wardens and choosing to attack them, rather than a planned assault. 

I've thought all along that the templars would break into several factions.  There's a limit to how many the game could show us without getting bogged down, but it makes sense that you'd have Lambert's group and a Loyalist group who refuse to break from the Chantry, and one or two others basing their loyalties on their opinion of the Chantry in general or Justinia in particular--and more than a few rogues, due to the complications of lyrium addiction in this whole mess.  But undoubtedly there will be some templars capable of realizing that going after the Wardens is not the best use of their resources.

As much as I like the Wardens, I wouldn't say they outclass the Templars by that much. 

Being the cream of the crop actually works against them to an extent; when you are the elite, it becoes harder to replace casualties, and you're going to suffer casualties. 

One advantage the wardens have is that they're the only faction in Thedas beyond the mage rebellion that actually utilizes mages to their full potential. The problem is that templars negate that advantage by being, well, templars.

The warden's policy of neutrality might also work against them. They're focused, constantly focused, on the Darkspawn threat. The templars could blindside them unexpectedly.

And then you throw Red Lyrium into the mix; we've seen just what kind of power red lyrium is capable of, and the affects it has on one's sanity. I wouldn't put anything passed templars hopped up on that stuff.

[Silfren]

Former_Fiend wrote...

Silfren wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

wardens aren't so strong so they could attack them considering that wardens have few people (well thousand or two) but i bet templar have much more peoples and well they will kick  rebel mages easily so i could see that.

On the contrary, Wardens are by definition the cream of the crop when it comes to being warriors, and they are trained to be utterly ruthless.  The ony real advantage the templars would have is numbers, but there's nothing to say that templars will be roaming the lands in large, cohesive numbers.  I think any groups that attacked Wardens would probably be smaller bands, and that it would be more likely to be an impulsive action, more the result of templars coming across a group of Wardens and choosing to attack them, rather than a planned assault. 

I've thought all along that the templars would break into several factions.  There's a limit to how many the game could show us without getting bogged down, but it makes sense that you'd have Lambert's group and a Loyalist group who refuse to break from the Chantry, and one or two others basing their loyalties on their opinion of the Chantry in general or Justinia in particular--and more than a few rogues, due to the complications of lyrium addiction in this whole mess.  But undoubtedly there will be some templars capable of realizing that going after the Wardens is not the best use of their resources.

As much as I like the Wardens, I wouldn't say they outclass the Templars by that much. 

Being the cream of the crop actually works against them to an extent; when you are the elite, it becoes harder to replace casualties, and you're going to suffer casualties. 

One advantage the wardens have is that they're the only faction in Thedas beyond the mage rebellion that actually utilizes mages to their full potential. The problem is that templars negate that advantage by being, well, templars.

The warden's policy of neutrality might also work against them. They're focused, constantly focused, on the Darkspawn threat. The templars could blindside them unexpectedly.

And then you throw Red Lyrium into the mix; we've seen just what kind of power red lyrium is capable of, and the affects it has on one's sanity. I wouldn't put anything passed templars hopped up on that stuff.

Well, I don't necessarily think that the Wardens would *outclass* the templars, but I do think it means that they would be anything BUT pushovers.  I do agree that Templars have it over on Wardens in terms of numbers, but again I think any Templars attacking wardens would likely be smaller rogue bands.  

Don't forget, templars can't counter blood magic, and under the circumstances, they're liable to be forcing a lot of mages into using it who otherwise might not go there. 

I'm more concerned about the larger implications of Templars disregarding Warden neutrality and immunity from Chantry law.  The Wardens may be forced into forming political alliances just because the importance of having mages in their ranks--and the necessity of being able to concentrate on the darkspawn without having templars breathing down their necks--requires it.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I am quite certain the highest ranking Templars are aware of the Joining (or suspect that something like it is going on) and know (or suspect) exactly why Thedas is doomed without the Wardens, since the Wardens would probably be investigated if there wasn't a policy of non-intereference from the top. I am also certain that not all of the Templars know, as otherwise Rylock would not have done what she did. (She would either have simply attempted to kill the Wardens to a man out of hand for blood magic, or allowed them to have Anders, but what she did just doesn't strike me as the actions of someone who knows of the Joining.) Whether the rebel Templars know is part of the question, and the rest of it is whether they're insane enough not to care.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 14 septembre 2013 - 09:11 .

[lady_v23]

Isn't the grey warden a neutral order? I really doubt the templars would try to pick a fight with the wardens when they're also fighting with the circle.

Well they could.. but that would be extremely dumb.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

lady_v23 wrote...

Well they could.. but that would be extremely dumb.

Do you know who Rylock was?

[lady_v23]

No idea who that is.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

An extremely dumb Templar from Awakenings who picked a fight with the Wardens.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 14 septembre 2013 - 09:11 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

If they're stupid enough to attack Grey Wardens then the Templars aren't going to around for very long. Warden's are the best of the best from every walk of life, They could rip through an army of mentally deranged drug addicts in no time.

Meh.
Wardens aren't that amazing.

[lady_v23]

Well.. I guess they could be that dumb.

[AutumnWitch]

If the Templars have the pure numbers we are lead to believe, they probably could attack the Wardens and win. Now in the long run when it bites them in arse that is a different question.

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

I hope they do, the wardens need a good thrashing before the inquisition finishes them off

[lady_v23]

@Autumn witch

They can fight the circle AND the wardens at the same time? O.o

[Silfren]

lady_v23 wrote...

Isn't the grey warden a neutral order? I really doubt the templars would try to pick a fight with the wardens when they're also fighting with the circle.

Well they could.. but that would be extremely dumb.

well, they are, but that's hardly going to mean anything to Templars who have separated themselves from the Chantry, and who have decided that mages cannot be allowed into an organization that places them outside of templar control.  I don't think ALL the templars would do this, but undoubtedly some would.  Extremists who believe they are doing the Maker's work, for instance, probably will think that mages have no business being allowed into the Wardens and not give a damn about legal neutrality.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Rakia Time wrote...

I hope they do, the wardens need a good thrashing before the inquisition finishes them off

You are aware that would be the end of the world in a few centuries?

[Silfren]

lady_v23 wrote...

@Autumn witch

They can fight the circle AND the wardens at the same time? O.o

You're assuming that the templars will be unified.  This is not true.  It only makes sense that there will be templars loyal to the Chantry who do not follow Lambert, and anyway we have the evidence of "red templars" from PAX, which alone indicates multiple factions of templars.  But nobody is saying that the templars will form a single, cohesive army and attempt to fight a war on two fronts. 

It's also not like we're saying the Grey Wardens will all gather together to face the total gathering of templars.  There's a large collection of Wardens in the Anderfels (two thousand I believe) but there are also far smaller groups in Orlais, Ferelden, and other nations.  Plus, from what we've seen, Wardens tend to travel in small bands.

I maintain that any conflicts between Wardens and Templars will most likely be on small-scale encounters.  Perhaps there might be a point where the Wardens find themselves fighting an all-out war, but I'd expect most templar-conflicts to be random skirmishes.

Modifié par Silfren, 14 septembre 2013 - 09:27 .

[leaguer of one]

Yes, it possible like they did with Ander's. These would be the stupid one would will be killed horribly by them.