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[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...



So you basically just blantantly ignore the attidude towards Magic? The Threat posed by and its history in DA?

You really need to learn how much the Chantry plays into Daily life, How much it effects the viewpoints and beliefs of their people. The Circle was formed due to that belief, as were the Templar order and that was the reason the Seekers joined the Chantry.

Your ill concieved logic aside you do have a point; Magic is useful and many people would agree with that. That said having a pet mage in an army is one thing, Having a Horde of them demanding freedom, power and political voice is another.

It violates a very old notion of how magic should be viewed, And you would literally need to turn your back on what makes Human culture, Human culture in DA to do that.

So you can keep your Notions and Conviction but doesn't sway and me and i am fairly open minded when it comes to many things DA.

But when it goes against written Lore, Canon and Storyboard presented...Well lets just say i take Gaider or the Dev team's word over yours.

It not an issue of ignoring the fear of magic. It's an understanding that it's not a blind fear. The nobility does not have the same fear of magic as the common folk. They see it as just a resource. If you see how the orlisians and Navarrian deal with it you would clearly see that. In fact many places have mages part of the court. Ferelidin has them part of the court, as well as Orlais, Navarra, and Antiva.  Only the commoners have a fear of magic but they don't count on who is gaining support, the nobles are.
If anything it you who are not grasping how nobles see magic.
It an issue of mylitary  and resorce logic. Some will side with the ttemplars out of loyalty, the question then come to which templer faction. The rest will side with the ones the benifits them the most and the mages are just that.

As i said before having a pet mage isn't the same as supporting unchained mages.

Maric used a Mage in his war against Orlais and the bushy browed man did his Nation Proud but this isn't a Military conflict. It is a spiritual conflict at its heart.

You claim i don't grasp how Nobility views Magic? In Orlais you have the Attempted assasination of the Divine by a Mage, In Kirkwall you have the assasination of the Grand Cleric by a Mage. These events are known among the Nobility and you expect them to disregard it when the mages have clearly stated.

"To be free and dead is better then to be in a circle under YOUR oversight." The Nobility blindly supporting any manner of Magic sentiment is speculation at best when in recent history you have many events that provide clear examples of nobility being witness to assaults upon the religion their culture revolves around.

So i don't agree with you, It goes beyond this blanket statement you use as "Military force" Because i honestly doubt the Nobility of any Nation would be trusting a Mage to lead their men into battle after they just declared they would fight any one to be free.

It violates the core of the society, this isn't tveinter and the attidude towards magic is quite diffrent.

[Master Warder Z_]

cjones91 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...


Why would any Noble not loyal to the Chantry seek aid from Mages? The Nobility presented as far as both games, the comics, the books and the Animated show are concerned are decided not pro magic, nor mage. You are speaking of a situation that goes DEEPLY against human held belief, even if you don't buy into the Chantry Cultural stigma aside you likely would find your fellow Nobles turning against you for such a transgression.

Which sort of proves my point; The Culture, the Beliefs and History all support my points the Nobility, Chantry or no will support the Templars because they have been the Baliwick against Magical forces against the common man for a thousand years and people realize that.

And what do they get? Security, Protection and Benidiction.

The Chantry is divided certainly but its Templars are far from weak.

The Wealthiest, Most Infleuntial and Powerful Nations are decidedly not Pro Magic, If they sense the threat of magic approaching them why would they not turn to their ardent defenders? Its a logical step. Kirkwall proved that Mages pushed can turn cities into Warzones, Now say if the Mages actually had a Kingdom supporting them besides the Imperium that might erode some of that aniexty but unforunately for Mages.

Outside of the Imperium the Mages are not premitted political power, They are not allowed political voice and most importantly are generally distrusted by both Nobility and commoner alike.

The Templars on the other hand? They have a thousand years of reptuation working for them, The Mages have a thousand years of suspision and threat posed.

Why would a nobily not loyal to the chantry not want to support a group that are one man armies and one man hospitals who can turn the tide of any battle and stop qunari inavations?

Really are you asking me this questions. It answers it self. They would support thr mage because they are valued resources in battles, wars and healing.
Asking why someone would side with  a mage over a templar is like asking why someone would pick a machine gun over a muzzle loading rifle.

The Wealthiest, Most Infleuntial and Powerful Nations are  not ageinst magic, especially when they know what it can do in war. They only side with the most power, which is the chantry. And the chantry lost all there power in this divide. They are not going to be ageinst magic because magic because the chantry says so and eventhing they know about mylitary logic says the mages are too good a resource to pass up. The would be blind fools too.

Reptuation means not to mylitary logic. And the nobles have that. They are not going to side with a group thats a money sink over a group that has the most benefits.

So you basically just blantantly ignore the attidude towards Magic? The Threat posed by and its history in DA?

You really need to learn how much the Chantry plays into Daily life, How much it effects the viewpoints and beliefs of their people. The Circle was formed due to that belief, as were the Templar order and that was the reason the Seekers joined the Chantry.

Your ill concieved logic aside you do have a point; Magic is useful and many people would agree with that. That said having a pet mage in an army is one thing, Having a Horde of them demanding freedom, power and political voice is another.

It violates a very old notion of how magic should be viewed, And you would literally need to turn your back on what makes Human culture, Human culture in DA to do that.

So you can keep your Notions and Conviction but it doesn't sway me and i am fairly open minded when it comes to many things DA.

But when it goes against written Lore, Canon and Storyboard presented...Well lets just say i take Gaider or the Dev team's word over yours.

More mages are being born every day,many people are very sympathetic to mages and considering most probaly have relatives that are mages, they will resent the group that takes their loved ones away from them.Besides anti mage sentiment will start diminishing sooner or later and mages will be welcomed among society.

I strongly doubt Human Culture will change rapidly just to suit a group most of the population depises.

You might get an exception to the rule every now and again such as the Warden or Hawke but the majority? I doubt very strongly it will change for them.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

What I'm saying by citing Uldred is that mages being weak in gameplay isn't really evidence of weakness, since the Warden is clearly so powerful as to follow separate sets of rules. The reason Uldred is evidence of this is that four people are not supposed to be anything resembling a match for him.

I realize that Wardens were said to only be allowed one mage at a time, but they clearly don't always listen to that rule. Mages are still a minority, but they have more of them than most organizations.

And as everyone else is covering, it's really shaky to say that Wardens need abominations to handle Templars. They already have non-mages powerful enough to survive the Joining, and the Wardens have repeatedly proven to be stronger than their numbers. (This is assuming the Templars can even find a large number of their own who are willing to attack the Wardens.) Plus, they already have blood mages. Saying that Blood magic makes a Templar's job harder is an understatement. Duncan once chanced upon a blood mage slaughtering Templars. One Templar survived, and that was because he attacked from behind and killed in one hit. And there are spells to block that.

Well mages aren't weak in gameplay they are powerful in gameplay but weak in universe(but sometimes they try convince that they are)

We have from the Chantry (not from the mages themselves) that mages were one of the large deciding factors of the Exalted March against the Qunari. Then there's the fact that the Tevinter Magisters had a reputation such that ordinary soldiers would flee rather than fight them. Any argument that mages are weak in-universe will need to address these points.

unless we talk about blood mages and real power as abomnation but here that depends what kind of demon possessed mage. And even if they have few more mages in organization still doesn't change
that mage (who is weak without blood magic) even blood mage can't handle army.Wardens are excellent warriors but templars also and they outnumber wardens and some of them now also have red lyrium (we don't know how many).But if templars don't get lyrium i doubt that they will have power to defeat wardens.As i said i don't question that blood mages are powerful but still i doubt that numbers of mages that wardens have and i bet that not everyone is blood mage could handle templars.

As I have repeatedly pointed out, the Wardens took on an army we can easily assume to be at least a hundred times stronger than they are numerically. We have not seen the Templars do this, and thus cannot assume that Templar-numbers will decide this.

another example is sketch

Try fleshing out this argument. Assume I haven't played Leiliana's song.

It isn't about leliana song more about da 2 where we can see him but yes we can take example from ls where sketch is surrounded by few guards and have another warrior who is helping him and is forced to give up.But we don't know how rly leliana song reflects what happened because leliana is narrator and we know that bards like make up things.Example from da 2 is when he can't handle various groups that want to kill him so he is forced to run and be on hawke mercy.

Several groups? One mage? That's not really good odds unless you're either really good or a blood mage. A Warden could probably still get out of this, since they train for really bad situations and survived the Joining. A Blood Mage could probably also handle it, given that they have attacks that attack biological targets in broken ways. For that matter, Sketch himself might be able to handle it, if he knows any decent AoEs. But I can understand why he doesn't want to gamble.

She is new at her job, and if memory serves her superiors are already questioning her competence. I'm pretty sure this isn't what Senior Enchanters are meant to look like.

perhaps but still a lot of this examples.

Most of which are qualifiable as the mage being weaker than he/she ought to be for some reason or another.

[Merengues 1945]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Merengues 1945 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Merengues 1945 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Merengues 1945 wrote...

Well, there's a problem, Grey Wardens are tough, certainly tougher than templars at any rate, They have a lot of power and men in the Anderfels and the respect of many societies (Dwarven kingdoms included)... Messing with them is tempting fate. Wardens oath is to fight the blight not humans, but a retaliation would seriously cripple the templars who without chantry support, lack access to some resources that the wardens can easily get.

Warden influence within the dwarves can be something to take on acount... As the only surfacers to fight the darkspawn, and with thousands of them fighting with them on the deep roads for ages, the dwarves have respect for them, even fondness. Wardens could convince them of not selling the lyrium to the templars or buying all the lyrium and see those bastards die from withdrawal.

You are joking right?

Orzamar ceasing its primary export to the surface?

The Dwarves respect the Wardens from Nobility to castless but here is the thing.

That's 70% percent of their trade income if not more.

That stops flowing? The Last Bastion of the Dwarves die, I doubt the Wardens enjoy THAT much favor.

There's more clients than just templars... As I said they could buy it and with the chantry in disarray surely the Magisters will be more than willing to buy a lot of lyrium. Without the chantry, I don't think templars have the funds to keep buying that sh*t for long, while wardens and magisters can surely do.

Nothing comparable to what they are losing.

The chantry controls the Trade topside and they are by far the largest buyer.

The thing of it is; You are assuming, apparently not alone in this belief that the entire chantry ceased support of the Templars when in truth thats doubtful to me. They likely still have backers and supporters and thus still have the wealth to buy it.

So i doubt this approach works.

Its clever i give you that if just not practical in my eye.

The templars and seekers cut all ties with the chantry when Lord Commander Lambert declared the Nevarran Accord null and void. Templars still require the gift from the stone to survive and mages require it for enchantments beyond an individual's reach. Surely the dwarves don't give a damn now about the chantry and will reap the benefits of the war... yet some groups have greater influence and deeper pockets, if provoked, the wardens know a way to squish the templars into submission and dwarves still got market for the gift of the stone... Remember, the templars have been around for several hundreds of years while the mages have been around for millenia... There will always be a market for the blue stone.

In the end it's just a way to hinder the templars... In an all-out-war, the wardens have a serious edge. They aren't only the best (they have three screenings; only the best get recruited, only the best survive the joining, and only the best survive the darkspawn) They also have a strong bond between them, to catch a mage you have to go trough their fellow wardens who are hardened by a permanent war against darkspawn (not only humans. Dwarves and Elves too) Wardens can rally support from places where templars don't... And They don't have a waekness... Just target the lyrium and done.

You think that Wealth suddenly gets cut off? Oh no, no i would be definately surprised if that was the case. The Templars need the resources of the Chantry, but they do not need the current Divine. I believe they have supporters and detractors, i just personally believe they have more support then opposition considering their reputation, history and connections.

And in all out war? The Templars outnumber every Warden Outpost, fortress and holding in Thedas.

You have fifty skilled warriors but against a thousand? They still lose, You can have as skilled a defender as you like but cases like the Vigil show how it doesn't matter against a Deterimined foe. Wardens can fall just like any other man. And Seekers and Templars are products of training, expreince and history. They fight comparable horrors to the Wardens and you have scores of Veterans among them.

Yes you have a lesser selection and training then the Wardens but due to the Orders Wealth, Size and Regional Power? I really don't see it.

Reputation, history and connections... Wardens are famous even between the Qunari, to obtain their reputation they only defeated five blights. Dwarves have ties to templars trough trade, but they have deepers ties to the wardens trough war, warrior and death castes have special liking for the wardens. Dalish are not fond of templars either, they are not precisely friends of the wardens but many dalish eagerly volunteer due to the honor in being a grey warden... Have you seen a dalish templar? or a dwarven one? Tevinter Magisters, they certainly don't like the templars and yet the imperium and the wardens have long standing relations... Also the right of conscription brings somthing else to the table, many respectable subjects can be forced to the joining or be threatened with it, I doubt templars can outmach such treath over a king or lord.... Also, there's two former wardens in high places; namely Fiona and Alistair, threatening their brothers will certainly put them on the wardens allies list.... Great Warriors + A kingdom + Mages + every other dude who realizes the blight is over every other conflict balance the stakes on the all-out-war

They outnumber the wardens pretty much everywhere, the only defensible position they have is Weisshaupt wich is the center of their power and from where they practically rule the Anderfels, also where they survived a blight for years (no templar army can match an archdemon and his massive horde, and they don't have any kind of currency or influence.)

Also you assume no one will come in aid of the wardens (The case of Soldier's Peak) who have been around many years before the templars and happen to be the only ones who can stop blights while any idiot with a liking for lyrium or zealot can be a templar... Depending on some choices from Awakening, Wardens can even have allies from the darkspawn.

Wardens oath is to fight the blight that's why they're beyond the reach of laws, they would only act in self defense, it's difficult for the templars to rally support against the wardens in that case.

[Master Warder Z_]

Merengues 1945 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Merengues 1945 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Merengues 1945 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Merengues 1945 wrote...

Well, there's a problem, Grey Wardens are tough, certainly tougher than templars at any rate, They have a lot of power and men in the Anderfels and the respect of many societies (Dwarven kingdoms included)... Messing with them is tempting fate. Wardens oath is to fight the blight not humans, but a retaliation would seriously cripple the templars who without chantry support, lack access to some resources that the wardens can easily get.

Warden influence within the dwarves can be something to take on acount... As the only surfacers to fight the darkspawn, and with thousands of them fighting with them on the deep roads for ages, the dwarves have respect for them, even fondness. Wardens could convince them of not selling the lyrium to the templars or buying all the lyrium and see those bastards die from withdrawal.

You are joking right?

Orzamar ceasing its primary export to the surface?

The Dwarves respect the Wardens from Nobility to castless but here is the thing.

That's 70% percent of their trade income if not more.

That stops flowing? The Last Bastion of the Dwarves die, I doubt the Wardens enjoy THAT much favor.

There's more clients than just templars... As I said they could buy it and with the chantry in disarray surely the Magisters will be more than willing to buy a lot of lyrium. Without the chantry, I don't think templars have the funds to keep buying that sh*t for long, while wardens and magisters can surely do.

Nothing comparable to what they are losing.

The chantry controls the Trade topside and they are by far the largest buyer.

The thing of it is; You are assuming, apparently not alone in this belief that the entire chantry ceased support of the Templars when in truth thats doubtful to me. They likely still have backers and supporters and thus still have the wealth to buy it.

So i doubt this approach works.

Its clever i give you that if just not practical in my eye.

The templars and seekers cut all ties with the chantry when Lord Commander Lambert declared the Nevarran Accord null and void. Templars still require the gift from the stone to survive and mages require it for enchantments beyond an individual's reach. Surely the dwarves don't give a damn now about the chantry and will reap the benefits of the war... yet some groups have greater influence and deeper pockets, if provoked, the wardens know a way to squish the templars into submission and dwarves still got market for the gift of the stone... Remember, the templars have been around for several hundreds of years while the mages have been around for millenia... There will always be a market for the blue stone.

In the end it's just a way to hinder the templars... In an all-out-war, the wardens have a serious edge. They aren't only the best (they have three screenings; only the best get recruited, only the best survive the joining, and only the best survive the darkspawn) They also have a strong bond between them, to catch a mage you have to go trough their fellow wardens who are hardened by a permanent war against darkspawn (not only humans. Dwarves and Elves too) Wardens can rally support from places where templars don't... And They don't have a waekness... Just target the lyrium and done.

You think that Wealth suddenly gets cut off? Oh no, no i would be definately surprised if that was the case. The Templars need the resources of the Chantry, but they do not need the current Divine. I believe they have supporters and detractors, i just personally believe they have more support then opposition considering their reputation, history and connections.

And in all out war? The Templars outnumber every Warden Outpost, fortress and holding in Thedas.

You have fifty skilled warriors but against a thousand? They still lose, You can have as skilled a defender as you like but cases like the Vigil show how it doesn't matter against a Deterimined foe. Wardens can fall just like any other man. And Seekers and Templars are products of training, expreince and history. They fight comparable horrors to the Wardens and you have scores of Veterans among them.

Yes you have a lesser selection and training then the Wardens but due to the Orders Wealth, Size and Regional Power? I really don't see it.

Reputation, history and connections... Wardens are famous even between the Qunari, to obtain their reputation they only defeated five blights. Dwarves have ties to templars trough trade, but they have deepers ties to the wardens trough war, warrior and death castes have special liking for the wardens. Dalish are not fond of templars either, they are not precisely friends of the wardens but many dalish eagerly volunteer due to the honor in being a grey warden... Have you seen a dalish templar? or a dwarven one? Tevinter Magisters, they certainly don't like the templars and yet the imperium and the wardens have long standing relations... Also the right of conscription brings somthing else to the table, many respectable subjects can be forced to the joining or be threatened with it, I doubt templars can outmach such treath over a king or lord.... Also, there's two former wardens in high places; namely Fiona and Alistair, threatening their brothers will certainly put them on the wardens allies list.... Great Warriors + A kingdom + Mages + every other dude who realizes the blight is over every other conflict balance the stakes on the all-out-war

They outnumber the wardens pretty much everywhere, the only defensible position they have is Weisshaupt wich is the center of their power and from where they practically rule the Anderfels, also where they survived a blight for years (no templar army can match an archdemon and his massive horde, and they don't have any kind of currency or influence.)

Also you assume no one will come in aid of the wardens (The case of Soldier's Peak) who have been around many years before the templars and happen to be the only ones who can stop blights while any idiot with a liking for lyrium or zealot can be a templar... Depending on some choices from Awakening, Wardens can even have allies from the darkspawn.

Wardens oath is to fight the blight that's why they're beyond the reach of laws, they would only act in self defense, it's difficult for the templars to rally support against the wardens in that case.

So your connections are entirely up to Game Decisions and a Leader of a faction fighting a War? Neither Alistair or Fiona would be overly impressive Allies. Alistair assuming even is king, For this agrument we will assume he is the playthrough cannot weaken his Nation to the extent fighting a mass assault against the Templars.

It would severely weaken his Nation and cost him a fortune when Ferelden is supposedly just getting back on its feet. So no help there: The other one and the most idiotic mage in history not counting those who breached the Golden city.

She is too busy fighting her self destructive war to bother aiding her old allies.

As for the Darkspawn well that certainly would unite just about every Human against the Wardens announcing that the Vermin responsible for the bloodiest wars in Human history are now aligned with the Wardens.

So even if that worked? The Wardens instead of fighting the Templars? Are now fighting every one, they would be booted back to the Anderfels faster then you can say "swooping is bad."

The Imperium still has Templars though the Magisters still realize their importance.

And Fernis stated "The Line is in a diffrent place but it is still there." Aka even they don't tolerate somethings.

So ultimately i don't see the creedence to your point but it does seem impassioned at least.

But the Imperium also cannot help the Wardens.

They are throwing everything they have just like they have for the past three centuries at the Qunari.

So i do believe i have to give it to the Templars in all out war.

Manly because there are just so many more of them, in a one on one fight a Seeker may best a Warden but this will not be a case of one verus one, it will be Army fighting Army.

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...



So you basically just blantantly ignore the attidude towards Magic? The Threat posed by and its history in DA?

You really need to learn how much the Chantry plays into Daily life, How much it effects the viewpoints and beliefs of their people. The Circle was formed due to that belief, as were the Templar order and that was the reason the Seekers joined the Chantry.

Your ill concieved logic aside you do have a point; Magic is useful and many people would agree with that. That said having a pet mage in an army is one thing, Having a Horde of them demanding freedom, power and political voice is another.

It violates a very old notion of how magic should be viewed, And you would literally need to turn your back on what makes Human culture, Human culture in DA to do that.

So you can keep your Notions and Conviction but doesn't sway and me and i am fairly open minded when it comes to many things DA.

But when it goes against written Lore, Canon and Storyboard presented...Well lets just say i take Gaider or the Dev team's word over yours.

It not an issue of ignoring the fear of magic. It's an understanding that it's not a blind fear. The nobility does not have the same fear of magic as the common folk. They see it as just a resource. If you see how the orlisians and Navarrian deal with it you would clearly see that. In fact many places have mages part of the court. Ferelidin has them part of the court, as well as Orlais, Navarra, and Antiva.  Only the commoners have a fear of magic but they don't count on who is gaining support, the nobles are.
If anything it you who are not grasping how nobles see magic.
It an issue of mylitary  and resorce logic. Some will side with the ttemplars out of loyalty, the question then come to which templer faction. The rest will side with the ones the benifits them the most and the mages are just that.

As i said before having a pet mage isn't the same as supporting unchained mages.

Maric used a Mage in his war against Orlais and the bushy browed man did his Nation Proud but this isn't a Military conflict. It is a spiritual conflict at its heart.

You claim i don't grasp how Nobility views Magic? In Orlais you have the Attempted assasination of the Divine by a Mage, In Kirkwall you have the assasination of the Grand Cleric by a Mage. These events are known among the Nobility and you expect them to disregard it when the mages have clearly stated.

"To be free and dead is better then to be in a circle under YOUR oversight." The Nobility blindly supporting any manner of Magic sentiment is speculation at best when in recent history you have many events that provide clear examples of nobility being witness to assaults upon the religion their culture revolves around.

So i don't agree with you, It goes beyond this blanket statement you use as "Military force" Because i honestly doubt the Nobility of any Nation would be trusting a Mage to lead their men into battle after they just declared they would fight any one to be free.

It violates the core of the society, this isn't tveinter and the attidude towards magic is quite diffrent.

A court mage is not a pet anything. Added, being that they are at the eat of the heads of state, they can influence them more than a templar can. They don't have the same fear of mage as the common folk do. In fact some of the nobles are secretly mages.
And this is a Military conflict. The fact that you are fighting and killing one another means it is. Also, the mage templar war is not the only war being a orlias is in a civil war.
As for the divine, that may of been done by someoen in the noble class. As for Kirkwall, that does not mean the nobles will side with the templars.
This is not just a battle of faith. Those who treat it this way will be the losers of the war.

[TheKomandorShepard]

We have from the Chantry (not from the mages themselves) that mages were one of the large deciding factors of the Exalted March against the Qunari. Then there's the fact that the Tevinter Magisters had a reputation such that ordinary soldiers would flee rather than fight them. Any argument that mages are weak in-universe will need to address these points.

Tevinter magister are blood mages well mages are free there and allowed to train since birth and well tevinter have more knowledge about magic that rest of the world others can only dream about that give that they are stronger because they can sacrifice their slaves and get power up and still they can't beat qunari heh even lose with them.About qunari and mages that may be not exactly true we don't see such thing from mages that could live to that.

As I have repeatedly pointed out, the Wardens took on an army we can easily assume to be at least a hundred times stronger than they are numerically. We have not seen the Templars do this, and thus cannot assume that Templar-numbers will decide this.

Well lets be honest you compare random and barely trained ferelden warriors to excellent warriors with traning and are well-equipped templars and we also not seen wardens battles so... and well wardens still failed.

Several groups? One mage? That's not really good odds unless you're either really good or a blood mage. A Warden could probably still get out of this, since they train for really bad situations and survived the Joining. A Blood Mage could probably also handle it, given that they have attacks that attack biological targets in broken ways. For that matter, Sketch himself might be able to handle it, if he knows any decent AoEs. But I can understand why he doesn't want to gamble.

Not sevral groups at one time few peoples at one time groups are split in other parts of city and still he coulnd't handle this.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 15 septembre 2013 - 02:39 .

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...



So you basically just blantantly ignore the attidude towards Magic? The Threat posed by and its history in DA?

You really need to learn how much the Chantry plays into Daily life, How much it effects the viewpoints and beliefs of their people. The Circle was formed due to that belief, as were the Templar order and that was the reason the Seekers joined the Chantry.

Your ill concieved logic aside you do have a point; Magic is useful and many people would agree with that. That said having a pet mage in an army is one thing, Having a Horde of them demanding freedom, power and political voice is another.

It violates a very old notion of how magic should be viewed, And you would literally need to turn your back on what makes Human culture, Human culture in DA to do that.

So you can keep your Notions and Conviction but doesn't sway and me and i am fairly open minded when it comes to many things DA.

But when it goes against written Lore, Canon and Storyboard presented...Well lets just say i take Gaider or the Dev team's word over yours.

It not an issue of ignoring the fear of magic. It's an understanding that it's not a blind fear. The nobility does not have the same fear of magic as the common folk. They see it as just a resource. If you see how the orlisians and Navarrian deal with it you would clearly see that. In fact many places have mages part of the court. Ferelidin has them part of the court, as well as Orlais, Navarra, and Antiva.  Only the commoners have a fear of magic but they don't count on who is gaining support, the nobles are.
If anything it you who are not grasping how nobles see magic.
It an issue of mylitary  and resorce logic. Some will side with the ttemplars out of loyalty, the question then come to which templer faction. The rest will side with the ones the benifits them the most and the mages are just that.

As i said before having a pet mage isn't the same as supporting unchained mages.

Maric used a Mage in his war against Orlais and the bushy browed man did his Nation Proud but this isn't a Military conflict. It is a spiritual conflict at its heart.

You claim i don't grasp how Nobility views Magic? In Orlais you have the Attempted assasination of the Divine by a Mage, In Kirkwall you have the assasination of the Grand Cleric by a Mage. These events are known among the Nobility and you expect them to disregard it when the mages have clearly stated.

"To be free and dead is better then to be in a circle under YOUR oversight." The Nobility blindly supporting any manner of Magic sentiment is speculation at best when in recent history you have many events that provide clear examples of nobility being witness to assaults upon the religion their culture revolves around.

So i don't agree with you, It goes beyond this blanket statement you use as "Military force" Because i honestly doubt the Nobility of any Nation would be trusting a Mage to lead their men into battle after they just declared they would fight any one to be free.

It violates the core of the society, this isn't tveinter and the attidude towards magic is quite diffrent.

A court mage is not a pet anything. Added, being that they are at the eat of the heads of state, they can influence them more than a templar can. They don't have the same fear of mage as the common folk do. In fact some of the nobles are secretly mages.
And this is a Military conflict. The fact that you are fighting and killing one another means it is. Also, the mage templar war is not the only war being a orlias is in a civil war.
As for the divine, that may of been done by someoen in the noble class. As for Kirkwall, that does not mean the nobles will side with the templars.
This is not just a battle of faith. Those who treat it this way will be the losers of the war.

Tell that to the Qunari.

Everytime they have fought against the Faith of the Maker they lost.

Tell that to the Dales, The Imperium.

Your underestimating the Faith that brought down the greatest Empire in the world, Defeated the most techologically advanced society in it and has united near an entirity of a species.

You underestimate the Chantry that much is clear.

I don't.

I may not support mage freedom but i am no fool and i understand the Politics of DA.

[elfdwarf]

this world is falling apart in game and forum because mages and templars

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

We have from the Chantry (not from the mages themselves) that mages were one of the large deciding factors of the Exalted March against the Qunari. Then there's the fact that the Tevinter Magisters had a reputation such that ordinary soldiers would flee rather than fight them. Any argument that mages are weak in-universe will need to address these points.

Tevinter magister are blood mages well mages are free there and allowed to train since birth and well tevinter have more knowledge about magic that rest of the world others can only dream about that give that they are stronger because they can sacrifice their slaves and get power up and still they can't beat qunari heh even lose with them.

The Qunari never breached Minrathous, though, did they?

About qunari and mages that may be not exactly true we don't see such thing from mages that could live to that.

Mages are the most broken class in-game, most of the more intimidating villans are mages. You argue that teh lore doesn't support that, I point out that it does. Then you point out that the lore was mages lying. I point out that it was the Chantry, and you point out that nothing we see in-game supports this. Maybe you won't be convinced until you are actually present for one of those battles? Or maybe you'll find some reason why mages are weaker than they look even so.

As I have repeatedly pointed out, the Wardens took on an army we can easily assume to be at least a hundred times stronger than they are numerically. We have not seen the Templars do this, and thus cannot assume that Templar-numbers will decide this.

Well lets be honest you compare random and barely trained ferelden warriors to excellent warriors with traning and are well-equipped templars and we also not seen wardens battles so... and well wardens still failed.

I am given to understand that this is the entire Ferelden army. Even adjusting for that, they should have had enough power to simply force their way through.

Several groups? One mage? That's not really good odds unless you're either really good or a blood mage. A Warden could probably still get out of this, since they train for really bad situations and survived the Joining. A Blood Mage could probably also handle it, given that they have attacks that attack biological targets in broken ways. For that matter, Sketch himself might be able to handle it, if he knows any decent AoEs. But I can understand why he doesn't want to gamble.

Not sevral groups at one time few peoples at one time groups are split in other parts of city and still he coulnd't handle this.

They still might have a chance if Sketch faced them himself. Flemeth is absurdly powerful, and Morrigan notes that she's still capable of dying if a sharp-point hits the right spot. That's probably why he doesn't. But this isn't the same as mages not being really powerful.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

elfdwarf wrote...

this world is falling apart in game and forum because mages and templars

No, the world's falling apart because demons from the sky. The forum and the Chantry are falling apart because Templars and mages.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The Qunari never breached Minrathous, though, did they?

but still they tev can't handle them and well qunari aren't even worried about tev.

Mages are the most broken class in-game, most of the more intimidating villans are mages. You argue that teh lore doesn't support that, I point out that it does. Then you point out that the lore was mages lying. I point out that it was the Chantry, and you point out that nothing we see in-game supports this. Maybe you won't be convinced until you are actually present for one of those battles? Or maybe you'll find some reason why mages are weaker than they look even so.

Gameplay vs truth if we go mage gameplay then mages must sicken because they are much weaker than before.And no only stories well legends support your point as far in game not gameplay and others da products we seen nothing that shows mages (not blood mages) are enough powerful to stop qunari and show us that they aren't so powerful as someone try paint them.

I am given to understand that this is the entire Ferelden army. Even adjusting for that, they should have had enough power to simply force their way through.

fortress and wardens add demons vs ferelden untrained army nice and wardens still lose.

They still might have a chance if Sketch faced them himself. Flemeth is absurdly powerful, and Morrigan notes that she's still capable of dying if a sharp-point hits the right spot. That's probably why he doesn't. But this isn't the same as mages not being really powerful.

well if he was really powerful he could kill them but he didn't if you can wipe out one city with one move your hand but still be killed by knife you shouldn't have problems with killing your enemies before you attack me that i think that mages can destroy city with hand it was just example that mages aren't so powerful. 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 15 septembre 2013 - 03:10 .

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...




Tell that to the Qunari.

Everytime they have fought against the Faith of the Maker they lost.

Tell that to the Dales, The Imperium.

Your underestimating the Faith that brought down the greatest Empire in the world, Defeated the most techologically advanced society in it and has united near an entirity of a species.

You underestimate the Chantry that much is clear.

I don't.

I may not support mage freedom but i am no fool and i understand the Politics of DA.

The faith of the maker were fighting as one at those time. The chantry is now divided and fighting among themselves. As stated before as long as they are divided and fighting among themselvse they have nothing of the power they use to have.

It's a simple as that. No one no longer has to worry about marches because the chantry is fight among itself.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 15 septembre 2013 - 03:26 .

[leaguer of one]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

elfdwarf wrote...

this world is falling apart in game and forum because mages and templars

No, the world's falling apart because demons from the sky. The forum and the Chantry are falling apart because Templars and mages.

^This. Even the qun will be feeling it from the fade.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

The Qunari never breached Minrathous, though, did they?

but still they tev can't handle them and well qunari aren't even worried about tev.

The Arishok himself went to investigate a new Tevinter weapon. They're clearly at least slightly worried. And with reason, considering what that weapon does.

Mages are the most broken class in-game, most of the more intimidating villans are mages. You argue that teh lore doesn't support that, I point out that it does. Then you point out that the lore was mages lying. I point out that it was the Chantry, and you point out that nothing we see in-game supports this. Maybe you won't be convinced until you are actually present for one of those battles? Or maybe you'll find some reason why mages are weaker than they look even so.

Gameplay vs truth if we go mage gameplay then mages must sicken because they are much weaker than before.And no only stories well legends support your point as far in game not gameplay and others da products we seen nothing that shows mages (not blood mages) are enough powerful to stop qunari and show us that they aren't so powerful as someone try paint them.

It's not legend, it's history. Slight difference. It is presented as historical fact by people who don't much like mages that the mages were largely responsible for the Exalted March ending the way it did.

As for the game not supporting this, it does show some artillery spells. And Blizzard, Firestorm, and Storm Of The Century really do look like they could wipe out a cannon placement. Most especially if they're aimed for the powder magazine...

I am given to understand that this is the entire Ferelden army. Even adjusting for that, they should have had enough power to simply force their way through.

fortress and wardens add demons vs ferelden untrained army nice and wardens still lose.

They were outnumbered as crap, and at that the Ferelden military still had to wait until they were almost too hungry to move. And even then the fight went a lot better for them than it could have. The Wardens should have had trouble moving.

Also, not to put too fine a point on this, but who won depends on how you define "losing." The last living thing on that battlefield was a Warden.

They still might have a chance if Sketch faced them himself. Flemeth is absurdly powerful, and Morrigan notes that she's still capable of dying if a sharp-point hits the right spot. That's probably why he doesn't. But this isn't the same as mages not being really powerful.

well if he was really powerful he could kill them but he didn't if you can wipe out one city with one move your hand but still be killed by knife you shouldn't have problems with killing your enemies before you attack me that i think that mages can destroy city with hand it was just example that mages aren't so powerful. 

Unless they get lucky. Notwithstanding that it doesn't happen, Wynne notes that there's every chance that an arrow might find her heart. What I'm saying is that mages are absurdly powerful, not that they're all powerful.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 15 septembre 2013 - 04:31 .

[dragonflight288]

Unless they get lucky. Notwithstanding that it doesn't happen, Wynne notes that there's every chance that an arrow might find her heart. What I'm saying is that mages are absurdly powerful, not that they're all powerful.

I agree.

Think of mages as glass cannons (save Arcane Warriors.) They can deal out a huge amount of damage, they can heal more effectively than any poultice, or they can do extremely effective crowd control spells, making battles that much easier, but they walk around in robes and very light armor (Hawke.) Get close enough, there's almost nothing to stop a sharp sword.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

The Qunari never breached Minrathous, though, did they?

but still they tev can't handle them and well qunari aren't even worried about tev.

The Arishok himself went to investigate a new Tevinter weapon. They're clearly at least slightly worried. And with reason, considering what that weapon does.

Mages are the most broken class in-game, most of the more intimidating villans are mages. You argue that teh lore doesn't support that, I point out that it does. Then you point out that the lore was mages lying. I point out that it was the Chantry, and you point out that nothing we see in-game supports this. Maybe you won't be convinced until you are actually present for one of those battles? Or maybe you'll find some reason why mages are weaker than they look even so.

Gameplay vs truth if we go mage gameplay then mages must sicken because they are much weaker than before.And no only stories well legends support your point as far in game not gameplay and others da products we seen nothing that shows mages (not blood mages) are enough powerful to stop qunari and show us that they aren't so powerful as someone try paint them.

It's not legend, it's history. Slight difference. It is presented as historical fact by people who don't much like mages that the mages were largely responsible for the Exalted March ending the way it did.

As for the game not supporting this, it does show some artillery spells. And Blizzard, Firestorm, and Storm Of The Century really do look like they could wipe out a cannon placement. Most especially if they're aimed for the powder magazine...

I am given to understand that this is the entire Ferelden army. Even adjusting for that, they should have had enough power to simply force their way through.

fortress and wardens add demons vs ferelden untrained army nice and wardens still lose.

They were outnumbered as crap, and at that the Ferelden military still had to wait until they were almost too hungry to move. And even then the fight went a lot better for them than it could have. The Wardens should have had trouble moving.

Also, not to put too fine a point on this, but who won depends on how you define "losing." The last living thing on that battlefield was a Warden.

They still might have a chance if Sketch faced them himself. Flemeth is absurdly powerful, and Morrigan notes that she's still capable of dying if a sharp-point hits the right spot. That's probably why he doesn't. But this isn't the same as mages not being really powerful.

well if he was really powerful he could kill them but he didn't if you can wipe out one city with one move your hand but still be killed by knife you shouldn't have problems with killing your enemies before you attack me that i think that mages can destroy city with hand it was just example that mages aren't so powerful. 

Unless they get lucky. Notwithstanding that it doesn't happen, Wynne notes that there's every chance that an arrow might find her heart. What I'm saying is that mages are absurdly powerful, not that they're all powerful.

i guess you mean mind control well that was special case because they need maric blood now they don't have it.
History is writen by victors as we seen many things are just stories and history like lie us or is exaggerated.

and yes because he torn veil and demons start spawn:devil:

"absurdly powerful" powerful is pain from naruto you can kill him one hit but good luck with that we don't see any example of mages being powerful well at best from npc we seen fireball and our pc in awakening presented only lighting what was slow as hell and well not so powerful and take that because it was pc toughest mag.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...


i guess you mean mind control well that was special case because they need maric blood now they don't have it.

The point is, the Qunari clearly think Tevinter's dangerous enough to keep tabs on.

History is writen by victors as we seen many things are just stories and history like lie us or is exaggerated.

Except that the mages weren't the ones who wrote history. The Chantry, who range from pitying them to outright hating them, were.

and yes because he torn veil and demons start spawn:devil:

He should not have had the power to, and Sophia should not have been able to lift her sword. You do realize that the Wardens were operating at the level you see in cutscenes while they were literally starving?

"absurdly powerful" powerful is pain from naruto you can kill him one hit but good luck with that we don't see any example of mages being powerful well at best from npc we seen fireball and our pc in awakening presented only lighting what was slow as hell and well not so powerful and take that because it was pc toughest mag.

We don't see any evidence of mages being that powerful, which is fine by me because that was kind of shark-jumpy. We do see evidence of mages being capable of things that could turn the course of a battle, with or without blood magic. That fireball you're dismissing? That really ought to be lethal. Especially if it hits a powder magazine or something.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...


i guess you mean mind control well that was special case because they need maric blood now they don't have it.

The point is, the Qunari clearly think Tevinter's dangerous enough to keep tabs on.

History is writen by victors as we seen many things are just stories and history like lie us or is exaggerated.

Except that the mages weren't the ones who wrote history. The Chantry, who range from pitying them to outright hating them, were.

and yes because he torn veil and demons start spawn:devil:

He should not have had the power to, and Sophia should not have been able to lift her sword. You do realize that the Wardens were operating at the level you see in cutscenes while they were literally starving?

"absurdly powerful" powerful is pain from naruto you can kill him one hit but good luck with that we don't see any example of mages being powerful well at best from npc we seen fireball and our pc in awakening presented only lighting what was slow as hell and well not so powerful and take that because it was pc toughest mag.

We don't see any evidence of mages being that powerful, which is fine by me because that was kind of shark-jumpy. We do see evidence of mages being capable of things that could turn the course of a battle, with or without blood magic. That fireball you're dismissing? That really ought to be lethal. Especially if it hits a powder magazine or something.

Qunari have spys in every society so i missed point.

Yes and mages were in forces that win and take that magic isn't understood by 99 % non-mages and we have such thing like peoples who claim that mages can turn you into toad ane well they like transform facts by turning them into fairy tales so that easily can be exaggeration.

As i said wardens are excellent warriors as well templars.

And no we don't see that mages can change course of a battle take your fireball vs turning into abomnation who is machine of destruction disadvantages>>>>advantages

[LobselVith8]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Merengues 1945 wrote...

Well, there's a problem, Grey Wardens are tough, certainly tougher than templars at any rate, They have a lot of power and men in the Anderfels and the respect of many societies (Dwarven kingdoms included)... Messing with them is tempting fate. Wardens oath is to fight the blight not humans, but a retaliation would seriously cripple the templars who without chantry support, lack access to some resources that the wardens can easily get.

Warden influence within the dwarves can be something to take on acount... As the only surfacers to fight the darkspawn, and with thousands of them fighting with them on the deep roads for ages, the dwarves have respect for them, even fondness. Wardens could convince them of not selling the lyrium to the templars or buying all the lyrium and see those bastards die from withdrawal. 

You are joking right?

Orzamar ceasing its primary export to the surface?

The Dwarves respect the Wardens from Nobility to castless but here is the thing.

That's 70% percent of their trade income if not more.

That stops flowing? The Last Bastion of the Dwarves die, I doubt the Wardens enjoy THAT much favor. 

The dwarves sell a fraction of the lyrium they mine to the surface; the rest, they keep for themselves: "Despite its dangers, lyrium is the single most valuable mineral currently known. In the Tevinter Imperium, it has been known to command a higher price than diamond. The dwarves sell very little of the processed mineral to the surface, giving the greater portion of what they mine to their own smiths, who use it in the forging of all truly superior dwarven weapons and armor. What processed lyrium is sold on the surface goes only to the Chantry, who strictly control the supply. From the Chantry, it is dispensed both to the templars, who make use of it in tracking and fighting maleficarum, and to the Circle." - Codex Entry: Lyrium (written by Brother Genitivi)

I doubt that either the mages or the templars could coerce the dwarves to sell to either faction, and a schism with the Chantry could have the dwarves withhold lyrium entirely. I suppose the current ruler of Orzammar and the fallout of the war between the mages and the templars will determine how the Great Thaig responds, and whether anyone is going to get supplies of lyrium from the dwarves.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Qunari have spys in every society so i missed point.

Never mind that, then. The fact remains that the Arishok himself went to investigate this weapon. Clearly, the Tevinters are being taken seriously.

Yes and mages were in forces that win and take that magic isn't understood by 99 % non-mages and we have such thing like peoples who claim that mages can turn you into toad ane well they like transform facts by turning them into fairy tales so that easily can be exaggeration.

You don't need to understand what mages can do to judge whether or not the mages made a difference. Particularly given that the Chantry flatly admits it was losing before the Circle were loosed on the Qunari.

As i said wardens are excellent warriors as well templars.

Have you completely missed my point? The Templars have done nothing this impressive. They have shown no evidence of being able to fight a force with superior numbers with any success, much less while starving. Which is my point; until the Templars do something equally impressive, (you probably think Kirkwall counts, even though there's no evidence that its Templars were outnumbered or starving) this point doesn't work.

And no we don't see that mages can change course of a battle take your fireball vs turning into abomnation who is machine of destruction disadvantages>>>>advantages

Except that that rarely happens. The Chantry, who lock mages up to prevent it, flatly admit that most mages don't turn. And I think you're underestimating how lethal that fireball would be if it hit some sort of store of explosives. And don't get me started on Storm Of The Century.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 15 septembre 2013 - 06:06 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Qunari have spys in every society so i missed point.

Never mind that, then. The fact remains that the Arishok himself went to investigate this weapon. Clearly, the Tevinters are being taken seriously.

Yes and mages were in forces that win and take that magic isn't understood by 99 % non-mages and we have such thing like peoples who claim that mages can turn you into toad ane well they like transform facts by turning them into fairy tales so that easily can be exaggeration.

You don't need to understand what mages can do to judge whether or not the mages made a difference. Particularly given that the Chantry flatly admits it was losing before the Circle were loosed on the Qunari.

As i said wardens are excellent warriors as well templars.

Have you completely missed my point? The Templars have done nothing this impressive. They have shown no evidence of being able to fight a force with superior numbers with any success, much less while starving. Which is my point; until the Templars do something equally impressive, (you probably think Kirkwall counts, even though there's no evidence that its Templars were outnumbered or starving) this point doesn't work.

And no we don't see that mages can change course of a battle take your fireball vs turning into abomnation who is machine of destruction disadvantages>>>>advantages

Except that that rarely happens. The Chantry, who lock mages up to prevent it, flatly admit that most mages don't turn. And I think you're underestimating how lethal that fireball would be if it hit some sort of store of explosives. And don't get me started on Storm Of The Century.

ot rly if orlais had weapon he would go there to investigate as well and that was
 case
because that was because maric blood

chantry stated that black city was golden chantry can be trusted as well better i don't say that
as i said even best mages didn't show anything impressive except corypheus who was like strongest mage ever powered by old god.

And as i said we don't and know about templars battles so if they don't show you story from dlc you wouldn't know about it and fist game were very wardens side.

Not rly we see abomnations even in first game quite often and especially in da 2 and now veil is torn and mages will be abomnation clock. And again you mistake gameplay and truth storm is only gameplay spell even combination of spells as well you could take bard sing fom gameplay as powerful weapon.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...


ot rly if orlais had weapon he would go there to investigate as well and that was
 case
because that was because maric blood

Possibly.

chantry stated that black city was golden chantry can be trusted as well better i don't say that

Proof once again that you don't know the difference between myth and history. The Chantry didn't exist during the First Blight. Meanwhile, they existed for and were recording for posterity the events of the Qunari Wars. If they were to be unreliable, why would they note that the biggest advantage the Chantries had was magic when they takes such a dim view of it?

as i said even best mages didn't show anything impressive except corypheus who was like strongest mage ever powered by old god.

The Warden showed Storm Of The Century, Fireball, and Blood Wound. Hawke showed a lot of the same things. Picture what those would do to an army.

And as i said we don't and know about templars battles so if they don't show you story from dlc you wouldn't know about it and fist game were very wardens side.

Yeah, but in the abscence of evidence I'm going to assume that the Templars aren't able to fight all that well while starving.

Not rly we see abomnations even in first game quite often and especially in da 2 and now veil is torn and mages will be abomnation clock.

That's supposed to be uncommon, from the lore. Which probably goes some way towards explaining how the world isn't already so screwed that the darkspawn are irrelevant.

And again you mistake gameplay and truth storm is only gameplay spell even combination of spells as well you could take bard sing fom gameplay as powerful weapon.

When I give evidence that the world looks like the lore describes it, you say that the gameplay is wrong? Despite the fact that the game I'm citing as evidence is the one that doesn't have an unreliable narrator, and you have no real evidence yourself? Both gameplay and lore tell you you're wrong when you call mages weak, and thus you find yourself trying to come up with ways they're both wrong. It may be time for you to throw in the towel on this point.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 15 septembre 2013 - 06:47 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...


ot rly if orlais had weapon he would go there to investigate as well and that was
 case
because that was because maric blood

Possibly.

chantry stated that black city was golden chantry can be trusted as well better i don't say that

Proof once again that you don't know the difference between myth and history. The Chantry didn't exist during the First Blight. Meanwhile, they existed for and were recording for posterity the events of the Qunari Wars. If they were to be unreliable, why would they note that the biggest advantage the Chantries had was magic when they takes such a dim view of it?

as i said even best mages didn't show anything impressive except corypheus who was like strongest mage ever powered by old god.

The Warden showed Storm Of The Century, Fireball, and Blood Wound. Hawke showed a lot of the same things. Picture what those would do to an army.

And as i said we don't and know about templars battles so if they don't show you story from dlc you wouldn't know about it and fist game were very wardens side.

Yeah, but in the abscence of evidence I'm going to assume that the Templars aren't able to fight all that well while starving.

Not rly we see abomnations even in first game quite often and especially in da 2 and now veil is torn and mages will be abomnation clock.

That's supposed to be uncommon, from the lore. Which probably goes some way towards explaining how the world isn't already so screwed that the darkspawn are irrelevant.

And again you mistake gameplay and truth storm is only gameplay spell even combination of spells as well you could take bard sing fom gameplay as powerful weapon.

When I give evidence that the world looks like the lore describes it, you say that the gameplay is wrong? Despite the fact that the game I'm citing as evidence is the one that doesn't have an unreliable narrator, and you have no real evidence yourself? Both gameplay and lore tell you you're wrong, and thus you find yourself trying to come up with ways they're both wrong. It may be time for you to throw in the towel.

as i said history is written by that guys who win and often become lie especially when we have deal with magic just look on Calenhad.

Storm wasn't show nothing more than gameplay ability gameplay is often unreal to some point to make our game experience more entertaining i doubt that warden could take 30 sword hits and be alive or scream that everyone would be stunned that is gameplay ,in gameplay leliana can take many sword hits but normaly she is defeated by one stab in leliana song as well we can cut off her head in gameplay.Many game separate gameplay from real events to some point like our hero who can handle 1000 hits then just in cutscenes is beaten by one hit.  

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 15 septembre 2013 - 06:59 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

as i said history is written by that guys who win and often become lie especially when we have deal with magic just look on Calenhad.

Which they do for their own benefit. How does it benefit the Chantry to state that mages are one of the biggest advantages the non-qunari have, when they're trying to control the mages and keep them compliant?

Storm wasn't show nothing more than gameplay ability gameplay is often unreal to some point to make our game experience more entertaining i doubt that warden could take 30 sword hits and be alive or scream that everyone would be stunned that is gameplay in game play leliana can take many sword hits but normaly she is defeated by one stab in leliana song as well we can cut off her head in gameplay.Many game separate gameplay from real events to some point like our hero who can handle 1000 hits then just in cutscenes is beaten by one hit.  

Except that Storm Of The Century fits very well with what the lore states mages are capable of. The reason the rest of it should be taken with a grain of salt is because it doesn't. Therefore, you can't really make that argument here without evidence.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 15 septembre 2013 - 07:02 .