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[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

as i said history is written by that guys who win and often become lie especially when we have deal with magic just look on Calenhad.

Which they do for their own benefit. How does it benefit the Chantry to state that mages are one of the biggest advantages the non-qunari have, when they're trying to control the mages and keep them compliant?

Storm wasn't show nothing more than gameplay ability gameplay is often unreal to some point to make our game experience more entertaining i doubt that warden could take 30 sword hits and be alive or scream that everyone would be stunned that is gameplay in game play leliana can take many sword hits but normaly she is defeated by one stab in leliana song as well we can cut off her head in gameplay.Many game separate gameplay from real events to some point like our hero who can handle 1000 hits then just in cutscenes is beaten by one hit.  

Except that Storm Of The Century fits very well with what the lore states mages are capable of. The reason the rest of it should be taken with a grain of salt is because it doesn't. Therefore, you can't really make that argument here without evidence.

Chantry wasn't only one who fought with qunari many fight with them so besides chantry as well is willing admit that mage is hero ofcourse when they don't have much choice look at meredith she have to admit that mage hawke is hero even if she don't like it.

LoL where if mages could use that templars lose mage-templar war instantly or i don't know maybe use that when they need that like many times in series but they don't hawke , warden , sketch and many many mages would use that but they don't.And now you want me to prove that something doesn't exist and i m confused as well i can ask you to prove that flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

as i said history is written by that guys who win and often become lie especially when we have deal with magic just look on Calenhad.

Which they do for their own benefit. How does it benefit the Chantry to state that mages are one of the biggest advantages the non-qunari have, when they're trying to control the mages and keep them compliant?

Storm wasn't show nothing more than gameplay ability gameplay is often unreal to some point to make our game experience more entertaining i doubt that warden could take 30 sword hits and be alive or scream that everyone would be stunned that is gameplay in game play leliana can take many sword hits but normaly she is defeated by one stab in leliana song as well we can cut off her head in gameplay.Many game separate gameplay from real events to some point like our hero who can handle 1000 hits then just in cutscenes is beaten by one hit.  

Except that Storm Of The Century fits very well with what the lore states mages are capable of. The reason the rest of it should be taken with a grain of salt is because it doesn't. Therefore, you can't really make that argument here without evidence.

Chantry wasn't only one who fought with qunari many fight with them so besides chantry as well is willing admit that mage is hero ofcourse when they don't have much choice look at meredith she have to admit that mage hawke is hero even if she don't like it.

Your argument, as I understood it, was that they're okay with making mages into the heroes where they really weren't. That's a tough sell.

LoL where if mages could use that templars lose mage-templar war instantly or i don't know maybe use that when they need that like many times in series but they don't hawke , warden , sketch and many many mages would use that but they don't.And now you want me to prove that something doesn't exist and i m confused as well i can ask you to prove that flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist.

If you see one in one of the games, you'll have to work overtime convincing me they don't exist in Thedas. I'm not counting out the possibility that you'd be able to do so, but the odds aren't in your favor.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

as i said history is written by that guys who win and often become lie especially when we have deal with magic just look on Calenhad.

Which they do for their own benefit. How does it benefit the Chantry to state that mages are one of the biggest advantages the non-qunari have, when they're trying to control the mages and keep them compliant?

Storm wasn't show nothing more than gameplay ability gameplay is often unreal to some point to make our game experience more entertaining i doubt that warden could take 30 sword hits and be alive or scream that everyone would be stunned that is gameplay in game play leliana can take many sword hits but normaly she is defeated by one stab in leliana song as well we can cut off her head in gameplay.Many game separate gameplay from real events to some point like our hero who can handle 1000 hits then just in cutscenes is beaten by one hit.  

Except that Storm Of The Century fits very well with what the lore states mages are capable of. The reason the rest of it should be taken with a grain of salt is because it doesn't. Therefore, you can't really make that argument here without evidence.

Chantry wasn't only one who fought with qunari many fight with them so besides chantry as well is willing admit that mage is hero ofcourse when they don't have much choice look at meredith she have to admit that mage hawke is hero even if she don't like it.

Your argument, as I understood it, was that they're okay with making mages into the heroes where they really weren't. That's a tough sell.

LoL where if mages could use that templars lose mage-templar war instantly or i don't know maybe use that when they need that like many times in series but they don't hawke , warden , sketch and many many mages would use that but they don't.And now you want me to prove that something doesn't exist and i m confused as well i can ask you to prove that flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist.

If you see one in one of the games, you'll have to work overtime convincing me they don't exist in Thedas. I'm not counting out the possibility that you'd be able to do so, but the odds aren't in your favor.

Nope argument was that even chantry sometimes must admit something even if they don't want
if i see choping zevran head and next thing was him talking to my character that mean he was resurrected or maybe that was only game play. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Nope argument was that even chantry sometimes must admit something even if they don't want

Right, because its true and can't really be denied without looking like an idiot. But my original argument was that the fact that the Chantry-created historical documents make mages look like one of the deciding factors of the Qunari wars means that mages are powerful, and you said these documents were wrong. What I'm saying is that the Chantry wouldn't admit to mages being a deciding factor in a war unless it were undeniably true.

if i see choping zevran head and next thing was him talking to my character that mean he was resurrected or maybe that was only game play. 

Right, because people coming back to life defies the lore. Mages being capable of insanely OP things doesn't, that's why I say that doesn't have to be taken with a grain of salt.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 15 septembre 2013 - 08:22 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Nope argument was that even chantry sometimes must admit something even if they don't want

Right, because its true and can't really be denied without looking like an idiot. But my original argument was that the fact that the Chantry-created historical documents make mages look like one of the deciding factors of the Qunari wars means that mages are powerful, and you said these documents were wrong. What I'm saying is that the Chantry wouldn't admit to mages being a deciding factor in a war unless it were undeniably true.

if i see choping zevran head and next thing was him talking to my character that mean he was resurrected or maybe that was only game play. 

Right, because people coming back to life defies the lore. Mages being capable of insanely OP things isn't, that's why I say that doesn't have to be taken with a grain of salt.

Evangeline , leliana and flemeth mock lore so... mages aren't that powerful even their healing magic is heavy limited as i said we never see any mage casting that spells even if they desperately need that , dont you think that most peoples would take gun and start shoot instead fight with fists logical i guess.

And maybe chantry was forced to wrote that because they needed every ally?

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 15 septembre 2013 - 08:26 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Nope argument was that even chantry sometimes must admit something even if they don't want

Right, because its true and can't really be denied without looking like an idiot. But my original argument was that the fact that the Chantry-created historical documents make mages look like one of the deciding factors of the Qunari wars means that mages are powerful, and you said these documents were wrong. What I'm saying is that the Chantry wouldn't admit to mages being a deciding factor in a war unless it were undeniably true.

if i see choping zevran head and next thing was him talking to my character that mean he was resurrected or maybe that was only game play. 

Right, because people coming back to life defies the lore. Mages being capable of insanely OP things isn't, that's why I say that doesn't have to be taken with a grain of salt.

Evangeline , leliana and flemeth mock lore so... mages aren't that powerful even their healing magic is heavy limited as i said we never see any mage casting that spells even if they desperately need that , dont you think that most peoples would take gun and start shoot instead fight with fists logical i guess.

I'm not saying every mage can do that. I'm saying it's possible. Besides, since we're already adknowledging gameplay v. story separation a mere fireball really ought to be lethal, and a lightning bolt really ought to stun at the very least. So while not every mage can SoTc, not every mage needs to.

And maybe chantry was forced to wrote that because they needed every ally?

The only people who would be pacified by such a thing were already under the Chantry's thumb. And they might have gotten ideas from it. So again, why would the Chantry say it were it not true?

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 15 septembre 2013 - 08:42 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Nope argument was that even chantry sometimes must admit something even if they don't want

Right, because its true and can't really be denied without looking like an idiot. But my original argument was that the fact that the Chantry-created historical documents make mages look like one of the deciding factors of the Qunari wars means that mages are powerful, and you said these documents were wrong. What I'm saying is that the Chantry wouldn't admit to mages being a deciding factor in a war unless it were undeniably true.

if i see choping zevran head and next thing was him talking to my character that mean he was resurrected or maybe that was only game play. 

Right, because people coming back to life defies the lore. Mages being capable of insanely OP things isn't, that's why I say that doesn't have to be taken with a grain of salt.

Evangeline , leliana and flemeth mock lore so... mages aren't that powerful even their healing magic is heavy limited as i said we never see any mage casting that spells even if they desperately need that , dont you think that most peoples would take gun and start shoot instead fight with fists logical i guess.

I'm not saying every mage can do that. I'm saying it's possible. Besides, since we're already adknowledging gameplay v. story separation a mere fireball really ought to be lethal, and a lightning bolt really ought to stun at the very least. So while not every mage can SoTc, not every mage needs to.

And maybe chantry was forced to wrote that because they needed every ally?

The only people who would be pacified by such a thing were already under the Chantry's thumb. And they might have gotten ideas from it. So again, why would the Chantry say it were it not true?

sigh nope that isn't possible as we seen no one could use that even if they need that like fighting with pride demon it would be completely idiotic well even not idiotic but retarded not use that when you can't defeat it maybe absolutely powerful mage could use that but 98 % don't because we don't see such thing even in despair. unless they change again how magic is presented and make it powerful then yes it will be possible as well i could say that mages can destroy mountain with one finger and prove that is false see you can't. 

because mages make deal with them only if they will state that we don't know what could happened there but chantry was in difficult situation.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 15 septembre 2013 - 08:54 .

[Vicious]

The weakness of the Grey Wardens is that there aren't that many of them and they are really only better against Darkspawn, against anything else they just have that bonus stat point... lol but seriously, a Templar wanted Anders so bad she tried to kill the Warden Commander. Most of the psychopathic ones (the majority of templars we have left it seems) don't distinguish. You use magic, you are bad and must be locked up or put down.

It's not 'cerberization' like some people claim. Templars were always jerks. There's no Templar origin and you are never allowed to be one in any DA game, at best just a warrior who snorts some lyrium.

They evolved from the Inquisition but lost their purpose. Like that one good Templar in DA2 says, Templars were supposed to protect Mages and stand shoulder to shoulder with them against the true enemies of all who live - Demons.

With some help from the Chantry they really screwed that original purpose up.

Modifié par Vicious, 15 septembre 2013 - 09:00 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

sigh nope that isn't possible as we seen no one could use that even if they need that like fighting with pride demon it would be completely idiotic well even not idiotic but retarded not use that when you can't defeat it maybe absolutely powerful mage could use that but 98 % don't because we don't see such thing even in despair.

By the same logic, the fact that 98% of people can't do a triple backflip would make that impossible. And yet Bruce Lee managed it just fine. I'm not saying most mages can do that. I'm saying there are mages that can. Also, since we've already adknowledged gameplay v. story segregation, how many people can survive being thrown by a fireball?

unless they change again how magic is presented and make it powerful then yes it will be possible as well i could say that mages can destroy mountain with one finger and prove that is false see you can't.  

You're right, you can't prove mages can't do that. But of course I'm not trying to argue that they can, due to lack of evidence that they can.

because mages make deal with them only if they will state that we don't know what could happened there but chantry was in difficult situation.

How difficult are we talking? The mages basically never try to renege on their deal (which had been made a long time prior to the Qunari war, I believe) no matter what the Chantry says.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Vicious wrote...

The weakness of the Grey Wardens is that there aren't that many of them and they are really only better against Darkspawn, against anything else they just have that bonus stat point... lol but seriously, a Templar wanted Anders so bad she tried to kill the Warden Commander. Most of the psychopathic ones (the majority of templars we have left it seems) don't distinguish. You use magic, you are bad and must be locked up or put down.

It's not 'cerberization' like some people claim. Templars were always jerks. There's no Templar origin and you are never allowed to be one in any DA game, at best just a warrior who snorts some lyrium.

They evolved from the Inquisition but lost their purpose. Like that one good Templar in DA2 says, Templars were supposed to protect Mages and stand shoulder to shoulder with them against the true enemies of all who live - Demons.

With some help from the Chantry they really screwed that original purpose up.

Point one: The Wardens put on a good showing against the entire Ferelden army. With less than 100. While starving.

Point two: Actually Greagoir and Emeric weren't so bad on that front. Pity the former's probably retired and the latter is confirmed dead.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 15 septembre 2013 - 09:17 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

sigh nope that isn't possible as we seen no one could use that even if they need that like fighting with pride demon it would be completely idiotic well even not idiotic but retarded not use that when you can't defeat it maybe absolutely powerful mage could use that but 98 % don't because we don't see such thing even in despair.

By the same logic, the fact that 98% of people can't do a triple backflip would make that impossible. And yet Bruce Lee managed it just fine. I'm not saying most mages can do that. I'm saying there are mages that can. Also, since we've already adknowledged gameplay v. story segregation, how many people can survive being thrown by a fireball?

unless they change again how magic is presented and make it powerful then yes it will be possible as well i could say that mages can destroy mountain with one finger and prove that is false see you can't.  

You're right, you can't prove mages can't do that. But of course I'm not trying to argue that they can, due to lack of evidence that they can.

because mages make deal with them only if they will state that we don't know what could happened there but chantry was in difficult situation.

How difficult are we talking? The mages basically never try to renege on their deal (which had been made a long time prior to the Qunari war, I believe) no matter what the Chantry says.

four i guess can survive in cutscene at least.
Yep but still doesn't matter because that applies to corry mage level doubt that warden can do that.
 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

sigh nope that isn't possible as we seen no one could use that even if they need that like fighting with pride demon it would be completely idiotic well even not idiotic but retarded not use that when you can't defeat it maybe absolutely powerful mage could use that but 98 % don't because we don't see such thing even in despair.

By the same logic, the fact that 98% of people can't do a triple backflip would make that impossible. And yet Bruce Lee managed it just fine. I'm not saying most mages can do that. I'm saying there are mages that can. Also, since we've already adknowledged gameplay v. story segregation, how many people can survive being thrown by a fireball?

unless they change again how magic is presented and make it powerful then yes it will be possible as well i could say that mages can destroy mountain with one finger and prove that is false see you can't.  

You're right, you can't prove mages can't do that. But of course I'm not trying to argue that they can, due to lack of evidence that they can.

because mages make deal with them only if they will state that we don't know what could happened there but chantry was in difficult situation.

How difficult are we talking? The mages basically never try to renege on their deal (which had been made a long time prior to the Qunari war, I believe) no matter what the Chantry says.

four i guess can survive in cutscene at least.

No idea what this means.

Yep but still doesn't matter because that applies to corry mage level doubt that warden can do that.

I wasn't arguing that it does matter.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

sigh nope that isn't possible as we seen no one could use that even if they need that like fighting with pride demon it would be completely idiotic well even not idiotic but retarded not use that when you can't defeat it maybe absolutely powerful mage could use that but 98 % don't because we don't see such thing even in despair.

By the same logic, the fact that 98% of people can't do a triple backflip would make that impossible. And yet Bruce Lee managed it just fine. I'm not saying most mages can do that. I'm saying there are mages that can. Also, since we've already adknowledged gameplay v. story segregation, how many people can survive being thrown by a fireball?

unless they change again how magic is presented and make it powerful then yes it will be possible as well i could say that mages can destroy mountain with one finger and prove that is false see you can't.  

You're right, you can't prove mages can't do that. But of course I'm not trying to argue that they can, due to lack of evidence that they can.

because mages make deal with them only if they will state that we don't know what could happened there but chantry was in difficult situation.

How difficult are we talking? The mages basically never try to renege on their deal (which had been made a long time prior to the Qunari war, I believe) no matter what the Chantry says.

four i guess can survive in cutscene at least.

No idea what this means.

Yep but still doesn't matter because that applies to corry mage level doubt that warden can do that.

I wasn't arguing that it does matter.

oh nothing just old times http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Low_Road

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

oh nothing just old times http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Low_Road

Oh, that. Okay, the Warden survived this. On the other hand, not only is he demonstratably outside the rules that most of Thedas has to follow (even Templars and mages are said to have trouble with Pride Demons, and the Warden managed to handily defeat an abomination of Pride) he was also injured enough to put him out of the fight. Besides, since he's a Warden, this also helps my main point: namely, that Wardens are insanely OP.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

oh nothing just old times http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Low_Road

Oh, that. Okay, the Warden survived this. On the other hand, not only is he demonstratably outside the rules that most of Thedas has to follow (even Templars and mages are said to have trouble with Pride Demons, and the Warden managed to handily defeat an abomination of Pride) he was also injured enough to put him out of the fight. Besides, since he's a Warden, this also helps my main point: namely, that Wardens are insanely OP.

the warden is new among wardens he don't have any training from them or even
philosophy as you said the warden is ridiculously talented but not super human when competent still arrow in his heart and he is dead.He just do that

[Master Warder Z_]

Vicious wrote...

The weakness of the Grey Wardens is that there aren't that many of them and they are really only better against Darkspawn, against anything else they just have that bonus stat point... lol but seriously, a Templar wanted Anders so bad she tried to kill the Warden Commander. Most of the psychopathic ones (the majority of templars we have left it seems) don't distinguish. You use magic, you are bad and must be locked up or put down.

It's not 'cerberization' like some people claim. Templars were always jerks. There's no Templar origin and you are never allowed to be one in any DA game, at best just a warrior who snorts some lyrium.

They evolved from the Inquisition but lost their purpose. Like that one good Templar in DA2 says, Templars were supposed to protect Mages and stand shoulder to shoulder with them against the true enemies of all who live - Demons.

With some help from the Chantry they really screwed that original purpose up.

Did you seriously just call that traitor thrash a "Good Templar"? 

The Man lacked the commitment and foresight to realize the folly of consorting with Blood Mages, Abominations and other Apostates. He is FAR from a good Templar.

A good templar realizes they are the only thing standing between Magic and the populace and they act accordingly.

The Knight Commander may have been Brutal but was she wasn't far from the truth.

[Master Warder Z_]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

oh nothing just old times http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Low_Road

Oh, that. Okay, the Warden survived this. On the other hand, not only is he demonstratably outside the rules that most of Thedas has to follow (even Templars and mages are said to have trouble with Pride Demons, and the Warden managed to handily defeat an abomination of Pride) he was also injured enough to put him out of the fight. Besides, since he's a Warden, this also helps my main point: namely, that Wardens are insanely OP.

the warden is new among wardens he don't have any training from them or even
philosophy as you said the warden is ridiculously talented but not super human when competent still arrow in his heart and he is dead.He just do that

And comparing the PC to the average Warden is pure folly anyway.

Look at the Initial assualt on Vigils Keep where they fell by the dozen to the Darkspawn; Admittedly you could agrue they were taken unaware considering they didn't sense their approach but they cannot do that for Templars either.

It sort of revealed that despite their skill and commitment they are still flesh beneath the armor and robes.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Master Warder Z wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

oh nothing just old times http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Low_Road

Oh, that. Okay, the Warden survived this. On the other hand, not only is he demonstratably outside the rules that most of Thedas has to follow (even Templars and mages are said to have trouble with Pride Demons, and the Warden managed to handily defeat an abomination of Pride) he was also injured enough to put him out of the fight. Besides, since he's a Warden, this also helps my main point: namely, that Wardens are insanely OP.

the warden is new among wardens he don't have any training from them or even
philosophy as you said the warden is ridiculously talented but not super human when competent still arrow in his heart and he is dead.He just do that

And comparing the PC to the average Warden is pure folly anyway.

Look at the Initial assualt on Vigils Keep where they fell by the dozen to the Darkspawn; Admittedly you could agrue they were taken unaware considering they didn't sense their approach but they cannot do that for Templars either.

It sort of revealed that despite their skill and commitment they are still flesh beneath the armor and robes.

Yes, but the Templars are still flesh and blood too. And they've never shown the resilience the Wardens did in other cases.

[dragonflight288]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Merengues 1945 wrote...

Well, there's a problem, Grey Wardens are tough, certainly tougher than templars at any rate, They have a lot of power and men in the Anderfels and the respect of many societies (Dwarven kingdoms included)... Messing with them is tempting fate. Wardens oath is to fight the blight not humans, but a retaliation would seriously cripple the templars who without chantry support, lack access to some resources that the wardens can easily get.

Warden influence within the dwarves can be something to take on acount... As the only surfacers to fight the darkspawn, and with thousands of them fighting with them on the deep roads for ages, the dwarves have respect for them, even fondness. Wardens could convince them of not selling the lyrium to the templars or buying all the lyrium and see those bastards die from withdrawal.

You are joking right?

Orzamar ceasing its primary export to the surface?

The Dwarves respect the Wardens from Nobility to castless but here is the thing.

That's 70% percent of their trade income if not more.

That stops flowing? The Last Bastion of the Dwarves die, I doubt the Wardens enjoy THAT much favor.

I'm a few pages behind, so I don't know if this has been rebutted, but here I go anyway.

Actually, lyrium is NOT their primary export. They use most of it for themselves and their own enchanting before they send the excess to the Chantry. If you play the Dwarven Noble, and talk to the merchant who sells silks and fine linen, the noble can make a comment that "they trade their stone and fine steel for this", and that shows us that they sell a lot more than lyrium.

The Chantry may have a monopoly on the trade, but without templars and mages, they lose the need to keep purchasing it, since both groups have left the Chantry. Both groups may offer various goods and services to the dwarves in exchange, and that in turn means there is now competition for the lyrium.

Depending on whose king, Harrowmont or Bhelen, the lyrium trade may be cancelled to the Chantry, but increased dramatically to many buyers. The templars are still addicted to it, and mages who want to avoid blood magic rituals will need lyrium as well. That doesn't mean that they're going to be losing a profit if they stop trading lyrium. They use most of the lyrium themselves before it even gets to the surface.

[Master Warder Z_]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Merengues 1945 wrote...

Well, there's a problem, Grey Wardens are tough, certainly tougher than templars at any rate, They have a lot of power and men in the Anderfels and the respect of many societies (Dwarven kingdoms included)... Messing with them is tempting fate. Wardens oath is to fight the blight not humans, but a retaliation would seriously cripple the templars who without chantry support, lack access to some resources that the wardens can easily get.

Warden influence within the dwarves can be something to take on acount... As the only surfacers to fight the darkspawn, and with thousands of them fighting with them on the deep roads for ages, the dwarves have respect for them, even fondness. Wardens could convince them of not selling the lyrium to the templars or buying all the lyrium and see those bastards die from withdrawal.

You are joking right?

Orzamar ceasing its primary export to the surface?

The Dwarves respect the Wardens from Nobility to castless but here is the thing.

That's 70% percent of their trade income if not more.

That stops flowing? The Last Bastion of the Dwarves die, I doubt the Wardens enjoy THAT much favor.

I'm a few pages behind, so I don't know if this has been rebutted, but here I go anyway.

Actually, lyrium is NOT their primary export. They use most of it for themselves and their own enchanting before they send the excess to the Chantry. If you play the Dwarven Noble, and talk to the merchant who sells silks and fine linen, the noble can make a comment that "they trade their stone and fine steel for this", and that shows us that they sell a lot more than lyrium.

The Chantry may have a monopoly on the trade, but without templars and mages, they lose the need to keep purchasing it, since both groups have left the Chantry. Both groups may offer various goods and services to the dwarves in exchange, and that in turn means there is now competition for the lyrium.

Depending on whose king, Harrowmont or Bhelen, the lyrium trade may be cancelled to the Chantry, but increased dramatically to many buyers. The templars are still addicted to it, and mages who want to avoid blood magic rituals will need lyrium as well. That doesn't mean that they're going to be losing a profit if they stop trading lyrium. They use most of the lyrium themselves before it even gets to the surface.

Thankfully the Templar has sources of that mystic stone outside of Official mining caste houses.

They can play ball with the Dwarves if the need arose but that isn't vital.

They have Lyrium smuggling operations present in both games and i have no reason to suspect its limited to Kirkwall and Fereldan, if the Templars were going behind the Chantries back Years before Schism then they likely will redouble these efforts now.

So if that means making nice with the Carta or what have you fine, It beats dealing with a politician that may instead of giving you what you need to fufill your duty to the maker instead gives it your foes.

Not to mention i still believe you have portions of the Chantry supporting the move of the Templars considering the Divine lost ALOT of clout once what she had done got around. She was unpopular before that, but that set chantry opinion against her according to Lambert.

So you could still see "Chantry" Purchases going to the Templars it just wouldn't be approved by the Divine anymore.

So eitherway they still have what they need to kill Mages in abudant supply.

[Master Warder Z_]

Master Warder Z wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Merengues 1945 wrote...

Well, there's a problem, Grey Wardens are tough, certainly tougher than templars at any rate, They have a lot of power and men in the Anderfels and the respect of many societies (Dwarven kingdoms included)... Messing with them is tempting fate. Wardens oath is to fight the blight not humans, but a retaliation would seriously cripple the templars who without chantry support, lack access to some resources that the wardens can easily get.

Warden influence within the dwarves can be something to take on acount... As the only surfacers to fight the darkspawn, and with thousands of them fighting with them on the deep roads for ages, the dwarves have respect for them, even fondness. Wardens could convince them of not selling the lyrium to the templars or buying all the lyrium and see those bastards die from withdrawal.

You are joking right?

Orzamar ceasing its primary export to the surface?

The Dwarves respect the Wardens from Nobility to castless but here is the thing.

That's 70% percent of their trade income if not more.

That stops flowing? The Last Bastion of the Dwarves die, I doubt the Wardens enjoy THAT much favor.

I'm a few pages behind, so I don't know if this has been rebutted, but here I go anyway.

Actually, lyrium is NOT their primary export. They use most of it for themselves and their own enchanting before they send the excess to the Chantry. If you play the Dwarven Noble, and talk to the merchant who sells silks and fine linen, the noble can make a comment that "they trade their stone and fine steel for this", and that shows us that they sell a lot more than lyrium.

The Chantry may have a monopoly on the trade, but without templars and mages, they lose the need to keep purchasing it, since both groups have left the Chantry. Both groups may offer various goods and services to the dwarves in exchange, and that in turn means there is now competition for the lyrium.

Depending on whose king, Harrowmont or Bhelen, the lyrium trade may be cancelled to the Chantry, but increased dramatically to many buyers. The templars are still addicted to it, and mages who want to avoid blood magic rituals will need lyrium as well. That doesn't mean that they're going to be losing a profit if they stop trading lyrium. They use most of the lyrium themselves before it even gets to the surface.

Thankfully the Templar has sources of that mystic stone outside of Official mining caste houses.

They can play ball with the Dwarves if the need arose but that isn't vital.

They have Lyrium smuggling operations present in both games and i have no reason to suspect its limited to Kirkwall and Fereldan, if the Templars were going behind the Chantries back Years before Schism then they likely will redouble these efforts now.

So if that means making nice with the Carta or what have you fine, It beats dealing with a politician that may instead of giving you what you need to fufill your duty to the maker instead gives it your foes.

Not to mention i still believe you have portions of the Chantry supporting the move of the Templars considering the Divine lost ALOT of clout once what she had done got around. She was unpopular before that, but that set chantry opinion against her according to Lambert.

So you could still see "Chantry" Purchases going to the Templars it just wouldn't be approved by the Divine anymore.

So eitherway they still have what they need to kill Mages in abudant supply.

And Edit  you also seem confused Lyrium is their Primary export given thats what the Chantry purchases in bulk for all 13 circles and templar chapters within Non Imperium Thedas. That outweighs amy private purchase of craft i do believe, Not to mention you need to factor in that they don't make the silk they purchase it.

They trade their Metalworks and lyrium for surfacer good because their nobility loves them.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Vicious wrote...
It's not 'cerberization' like some people claim. Templars were always jerks. There's no Templar origin and you are never allowed to be one in any DA game, at best just a warrior who snorts some lyrium.

Nah. Mages were always jerks.
Templars rock.

Point one: The Wardens put on a good showing against the entire Ferelden army. With less than 100. While starving.

Not really that impressive.

History is full of accoutns of a small group of peopel in a good defensive position resisting a long siege.
Back in the days, if you didn't outnumber the opponent at elast 10:1, you didn't lay siege to his castle. Because the defender has ALL the advantages. So that feat of warden prowess is something I can see anyone replicating.

And how big was the ferelden army to begin with?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Oh, that. Okay, the Warden survived this. On the other hand, not only is he demonstratably outside the rules that most of Thedas has to follow (even Templars and mages are said to have trouble with Pride Demons, and the Warden managed to handily defeat an abomination of Pride) he was also injured enough to put him out of the fight. Besides, since he's a Warden, this also helps my main point: namely, that Wardens are insanely OP.

Player characters are ALWAYS OP.
Regardless of their background or profession.

You can start the game as farmer Joe and become the most badass dude in the history of forever in most RPG's.

The player, by nature of character shields and the power of save&load, is the ultimate force in the universe.

[Eveangaline]

Didn't they send a templar to join the wardens just to watch Anders?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Oh, that. Okay, the Warden survived this. On the other hand, not only is he demonstratably outside the rules that most of Thedas has to follow (even Templars and mages are said to have trouble with Pride Demons, and the Warden managed to handily defeat an abomination of Pride) he was also injured enough to put him out of the fight. Besides, since he's a Warden, this also helps my main point: namely, that Wardens are insanely OP.

Player characters are ALWAYS OP.
Regardless of their background or profession.

You can start the game as farmer Joe and become the most badass dude in the history of forever in most RPG's.

The player, by nature of character shields and the power of save&load, is the ultimate force in the universe.

Yes, granted. But while he/she's badass even for a Warden, given how horribly outnumbered Sophia's men were at Soldiers Peak and the performance they are said to have put up PC levels of power aren't so far out of the common way for Wardens.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 16 septembre 2013 - 11:09 .