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[N7recruit]

I'm not an Expert on the Dragon Age Lore but Could this be the Reason Morrigan & Flemeth wanted to preserve the soul of the Archdemon Urthemiel? It's delived that the Old Gods tought the Magisters how to Enter the Golden City and Usurp the Makers power in hopes of being freed. This didn't turn out too well for them but Maybe the fault was on the Magisters & it actually is possible for say... one with the soul of an Old God?

Maybe they Belive the Child can succeed where the Magisters Failed, or that he will know how such a thing would be possible when he realises his power. + How Morrigan Harps on about his destiny & is so sceretive about her plans for him. 

If this theory was posted before I appoligise to the OP of that thread but I tought It would be interesting to discuss with you guys. So what do you think?

[Taleroth]

I never heard that the old gods taught them, they just compelled them. And either way it still required thousands of slaves to sacrifice.

I see no reason for Morrigan to want to break into the black city. And she simply does not have enough slaves.

[Han Shot First]

If that is their plan I think it would be a foolish one. After all the Old Gods were not immune to the corruption unleashed by the magisters breaking into the Golden City. I don't think that would end well.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 14 septembre 2013 - 05:17 .

[N7recruit]

Taleroth wrote...

I never heard that the old gods taught them, they just compelled them. And either way it still required thousands of slaves to sacrifice.

I see no reason for Morrigan to want to break into the black city. And she simply does not have enough slaves.

I never knew about the Scarafice, my bad. 

But I am Speculating that the Child would be the one to Do it. Maybe he would be able to achive it through other means.
Or maybe the "Other Means" are all the Tears in the Veil? Someone would need a pretty compeling reason for it & I can think of none greater than this one. 

+ In the DLC Wardens keep Avernus' notes " In my dreams I see the Black city, and I am drawn towards it. There is somthing there, an answer to what the Taint is."

It just makes the most sence to me that this would be the plan Morrigan has for the OGB

[N7recruit]

Han Shot First wrote...

If that is their plan I think it would be a foolish one. After all the Old Gods were not immune to the corruption unleashed by the magisters breaking into the Golden City. I don't think that would end well.

But The Old Gods were imprisioned by the Maker First correct? Then the DarkSpawn burrowed down to their Prison & Currupted them, Changing them into ArchDemons.
Either the Maker is the Biggest **** ever or maybe He wants the Old Gods destroyed before they become a treath to his power.
Oh the Speculations  

[Angrywolves]

Probably not.
There's probably something in the world of Thedas that he's needed for.

[Moghedia]

Good theory, although I don't think it is very likely...

[azarhal]

Canticle

N7recruit wrote...

+ In the DLC Wardens keep Avernus' notes " In my dreams I see the Black city, and I am drawn towards it. There is somthing there, an answer to what the Taint is."

It just makes the most sence to me that this would be the plan Morrigan has for the OGB

Morrigan and Flemeth wanted to free the dragon soul from the taint with the Dark Ritual, I doubt they want to taint it again. The Black City is Taint Central.

[ChandlerL]

I always thought that the reason why Morrigan wanted the OGB, was to preserve the Old God.

Every time there is a blight, an Old God is killed. Morrigan saw a method to preserve the Old God itself uncorrupted by the taint. More than that the Old God wouldn't be buried somewhere frozen in time awaiting to be found by Darkspawn but be a living being alive on the surface of Thedas bringing it's old world influence and  values along with it.

Just spitballin' honestly.

Oh and, "That's what I heard on the road anyway. Take it for what it is."

Modifié par ChandlerL, 15 septembre 2013 - 02:47 .

[Angrywolves]

It apparently was Flemeth 's plan originally .
Morrigan seems to believe she's hijacked it to suit her own purposes.
I suspect that was Flemeth 's plan too..

[Quinnzel]

The way I always figured it was that the maker sealed away the old gods to prevent them getting into the Golden City at all. But the old gods do their magicky suggestion singing doohickey and persuade and teach the Magisters how to do get there. Maker freaks the hell out, curses or whatever the humans and thusly creates the dark spawn.

With Morrigan and Flemmeth I figured what the plan was to put the soul of an old god into a mortal (because the old gods are locked under ground and even when the darks pawn Magisters get to them, oh noes blights!) because mortals can still get to the fade/maybe reach the golden city, getting past whatever magickal traps or whatever the maker dreamt up.

Essentially: Maker stops the old gods from reaching golden city full stop. Old gods persuade humans to do it in their stead. Humans are too dumb or trip up the security system for the golden city. Darkspawn curse, leading to the corruption of old gods, leading to blights, leading to laying waste to humans and old gods alike. New solution! Put the smarts and power and the soul of an old god into a normal human/dwarfy dwarf/pointy eared bugger and access the golden city that way.

(I had no idea if that makes any sense at all...I'm rather tired and drunk)

Modifié par Quinnzel, 15 septembre 2013 - 03:17 .

[aries1001]

Doesn't Corypheus say in DA2: Legacy that the Black City already was blackened when the magisters (from Tevinter) arrived? If we can trust what Corypheus says here, then something or someone must have blackened the city which was supposed to be golden?

And, Quinnzel way of writing "the dark spawn" has made me realize that the darkspawn really must be the dark spawn (e.g. the sons and daughters of someone or something), the question then becomes which father and mothers do the dark spawn really have - what are their origins originally. (and no, I'm not talking about the broodmothers). And can we really trust the Chantry's version of these events? Magisters going to heaven.....when we have Corypheus's word about the Black City already blackened and this: "it was supposed to Golden." (e.g. the city in the Heavens).

On topic a bit more:

Doesn't Morrigan want to perform the Dark Ritual to stop the taint? and the darkspawn? And isn't the OGB supposed to be a ancient god that cannot be corrupted by the darkspawn...

[Maconbar]

As I was reading this enjoyable thread, the following thought hit me.

Maybe the taint is somewhat akin to the Dark One's prison in WOT and the Magisters attempt, in effect, opened a bore that allowed the taint to affect the world. Clearly this isn't a theory just me noticing some similarities in story.

[ChandlerL]

Angrywolves wrote...

It apparently was Flemeth 's plan originally .
Morrigan seems to believe she's hijacked it to suit her own purposes.
I suspect that was Flemeth 's plan too..

Indeed, I share your opinion.

[MACharlie1]

aries1001 wrote...

Doesn't Corypheus say in DA2: Legacy that the Black City already was blackened when the magisters (from Tevinter) arrived? If we can trust what Corypheus says here, then something or someone must have blackened the city which was supposed to be golden?

And, Quinnzel way of writing "the dark spawn" has made me realize that the darkspawn really must be the dark spawn (e.g. the sons and daughters of someone or something), the question then becomes which father and mothers do the dark spawn really have - what are their origins originally. (and no, I'm not talking about the broodmothers). And can we really trust the Chantry's version of these events? Magisters going to heaven.....when we have Corypheus's word about the Black City already blackened and this: "it was supposed to Golden." (e.g. the city in the Heavens).

On topic a bit more:

Doesn't Morrigan want to perform the Dark Ritual to stop the taint? and the darkspawn? And isn't the OGB supposed to be a ancient god that cannot be corrupted by the darkspawn...

Or it was never Golden in the first place...

[Master Warder Z_]

MACharlie1 wrote...

aries1001 wrote...

Doesn't Corypheus say in DA2: Legacy that the Black City already was blackened when the magisters (from Tevinter) arrived? If we can trust what Corypheus says here, then something or someone must have blackened the city which was supposed to be golden?

And, Quinnzel way of writing "the dark spawn" has made me realize that the darkspawn really must be the dark spawn (e.g. the sons and daughters of someone or something), the question then becomes which father and mothers do the dark spawn really have - what are their origins originally. (and no, I'm not talking about the broodmothers). And can we really trust the Chantry's version of these events? Magisters going to heaven.....when we have Corypheus's word about the Black City already blackened and this: "it was supposed to Golden." (e.g. the city in the Heavens).

On topic a bit more:

Doesn't Morrigan want to perform the Dark Ritual to stop the taint? and the darkspawn? And isn't the OGB supposed to be a ancient god that cannot be corrupted by the darkspawn...

Or it was never Golden in the first place...

Or the ancient egomaniac was lying.

[Daerog]

Or it went black at the very instant they performed their ritual and went in, so what they saw when they arrived was black with no indication that it was ever golden, but perhaps it was golden before they performed the ritual.

Or it was just golden on the outside, or maybe it was blue on the inside, or maybe they saw a single room that was black and all the other rooms are of many colors, perhaps the light was out when they went in and didn't notice the switch to turn on the light, so it was a dark inside because they were indoors, or maybe the ritual was faulty and they were able to enter physically but left their eyeballs behind without realizing it (darkspawn seem to regenerate, considering Architect lost his hand before Awakening).

[Eveangaline]

If they do, they're screwed in plenty of runs.

[Ziggeh]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Or it was never Golden in the first place...

Then why would the Magisters have believed it would be golden? 

[funmachine]

Master Warder Z wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

aries1001 wrote...

Doesn't Corypheus say in DA2: Legacy that the Black City already was blackened when the magisters (from Tevinter) arrived? If we can trust what Corypheus says here, then something or someone must have blackened the city which was supposed to be golden?

And, Quinnzel way of writing "the dark spawn" has made me realize that the darkspawn really must be the dark spawn (e.g. the sons and daughters of someone or something), the question then becomes which father and mothers do the dark spawn really have - what are their origins originally. (and no, I'm not talking about the broodmothers). And can we really trust the Chantry's version of these events? Magisters going to heaven.....when we have Corypheus's word about the Black City already blackened and this: "it was supposed to Golden." (e.g. the city in the Heavens).

On topic a bit more:

Doesn't Morrigan want to perform the Dark Ritual to stop the taint? and the darkspawn? And isn't the OGB supposed to be a ancient god that cannot be corrupted by the darkspawn...

Or it was never Golden in the first place...

Or the ancient egomaniac was lying.

I think that's quite a stretch. He just woke up from his imprisonment and was clearly confused and disoriented during his initial speech. Not the right state of mind to consider your words carefully for some top-level deceit...

[funmachine]

Ziggeh wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Or it was never Golden in the first place...

Then why would the Magisters have believed it would be golden? 

It's only ever seen in the Fade, a place that - even in the places you can reach - is extremely alien compared to the real world. The Golden City was never accessible by a long shot, so who knows what kind of illusions it had wrapped around it?

To clarify, I'm not saying I'm 100% sure Corypheus was telling the truth, but I'm definitely open to the possibility of the "Golden City" being black all along.

[Ziggeh]

funmachine wrote...
It's only ever seen in the Fade, a place that - even in the places you can reach - is extremely alien compared to the real world. The Golden City was never accessible by a long shot, so who knows what kind of illusions it had wrapped around it?

To clarify, I'm not saying I'm 100% sure Corypheus was telling the truth, but I'm definitely open to the possibility of the "Golden City" being black all along.

It's a possibility, but you've got to ask who would do that, and why?

If it wasn't to trick the Magister's why would such an illusion have been dropped once they'd been? 

And if it was, firstly you'd have to start millenia before they were born, because as a focal point within the fade it would be a major part of mage conciousness. And given they were murdering thousands of slaves to get there, why would they be put off by a colour with potentially negative connotations? How is "golden" a better sale to people who are all but objectively evil already? 

[funmachine]

Ziggeh wrote...

funmachine wrote...
It's only ever seen in the Fade, a place that - even in the places you can reach - is extremely alien compared to the real world. The Golden City was never accessible by a long shot, so who knows what kind of illusions it had wrapped around it?

To clarify, I'm not saying I'm 100% sure Corypheus was telling the truth, but I'm definitely open to the possibility of the "Golden City" being black all along.

It's a possibility, but you've got to ask who would do that, and why?

If it wasn't to trick the Magister's why would such an illusion have been dropped once they'd been? 

And if it was, firstly you'd have to start millenia before they were born, because as a focal point within the fade it would be a major part of mage conciousness. And given they were murdering thousands of slaves to get there, why would they be put off by a colour with potentially negative connotations? How is "golden" a better sale to people who are all but objectively evil already? 

Definitely, lots of ifs, whys, hows and other questionable words. I guess I'm just trying to point out that everything going on in the fade is vague at best. We know absolutely nothing about the Maker, except that he apparently turned his back on the world because its inhabitants became unruly. Maybe the elven "gods" have something to do with it? The nature of the fade makes just about anything possible. Some healthy scepticism towards the popular chantry teachings is useful I think. Even if you ignore the innate penchant for allegory religions seem to have, the Chantry already proved that they're more than willing to change their Chant of Light to suit their own agenda.

[Moghedia]

Ziggeh wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Or it was never Golden in the first place...

Then why would the Magisters have believed it would be golden? 

The Old God Dumat lied, for what reason I dont know... But I think he had something invested in the attempt to breach the golden city.

btw Dumat is also supposed to have taught the Magisters blood magic so the magisters had no reason to doubt him....

[Taleroth]

Moghedia wrote...

The Old God Dumat lied, for what reason I dont know... But I think he had something invested in the attempt to breach the golden city.

btw Dumat is also supposed to have taught the Magisters blood magic so the magisters had no reason to doubt him....

Dumat may have also not known.

There's at least three reported origins for the teaching of Blood Magic, so that's kind of fun.