379 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

To support my point of view about Tevinter and how good would it be to expand it in some kind of positive perspective in DA:I, I want to post here some descriptions from another game. There are a lot of people who play that game as members of the following factions, and don't see themselves as "evil":

"The Amarr Empress rules the largest and oldest of the four empires, a vast theocracy supported by Minmatar slave labor. Amarrian citizens tend to be highly educated and fervently believe that slavery is but one step on a spiritual path toward fully embracing faith. Despite several recent setbacks, the Amarr Empire is the most stable nation and most powerful military in New Eden. Allied to the Caldari State, they wish to reclaim the Minmatar Republic."

"Founded on the tenets of patriotism and hard work that carried its forebears through hardships on an inhospitable homeworld, the Caldari State of today is a corporate dictatorship, led by rulers determined to return to the meritocracy. Ruthless and efficient in the boardroom and on the battlefield, the Caldari are living emblems of strength, persistence, and dignity. The Caldari are allies of the Amarr Empire and are locked in war with the Gallente Federation."

[jmadsen]

Rise fellow mages, rise. For we shall take what is rightfully ours, by blood, ours and theirs, if need be.

[Br3admax]

Eterna5 wrote...

I started the Blight.

Knew it.  

[Cirram55]

Seival wrote...
What is the happiness? It's a state of your mind, when you think that everything goes as it should. And believe me, you want this state of mind to be constant and unbreakable.

Already told ya. Happiness is not a magic state of mind. When certain conditions are met your brain releases a mix of oxytocin and serotonin and BAM! you're suddenly happy. Doesn't last, it's not forever.
Would I even want it to last forever? Absolutely not. I don't want to be a drone able to feel just one emotion. Struggle leads to progress, complacency to stagnation. That's what you're talking about.
Philosophically (nor biologically) your suggestion does not stand.

Yes, freedom is just an illusion. I said that many times before. You experienced modern individuality, and seen barbaric slavery and barbaric mind-control. But what about gentle mind-control I'm talking about here? When in fact you are slave, but don't even realize that, and don't care about that? You would be in quite a similar state as now, with the only difference - it will be only your masters who will decide what is better for you and the entire society, and Blood Magic will ensure you'll never disagree. For you, however, that will be as if it was your "free" decision - an illusion that keeps you under control.

If it were possible (we're talking about Thedas here), that would indeed sound interesting, but ultimately I wouldn't see the point. Illusion of choice against illusion of happines? I would totally go for the former, as I said if I make a (yet conditioned by external imput) choice I can hope it will lead me to happiness, and this is what brings me happiness, not some fancy blood ritual. Besides, read below:

Isn't that a good way of things when masters are wise and progressive? I believe it is one of the best ways to be no matter if you are slave or master in this system.

That's the problem. I would never trust a magister to be wise, nor progressive. Historia magistra vitae, as they say: didn't go well last time, why should it change now? Tevinter sure doesn't like to learn from its past.

[Seival]

Cirram55 wrote...

Seival wrote...
What is the happiness? It's a state of your mind, when you think that everything goes as it should. And believe me, you want this state of mind to be constant and unbreakable.

Already told ya. Happiness is not a magic state of mind. When certain conditions are met your brain releases a mix of oxytocin and serotonin and BAM! you're suddenly happy. Doesn't last, it's not forever.
Would I even want it to last forever? Absolutely not. I don't want to be a drone able to feel just one emotion. Struggle leads to progress, complacency to stagnation. That's what you're talking about.
Philosophically (nor biologically) your suggestion does not stand.

Yes, freedom is just an illusion. I said that many times before. You experienced modern individuality, and seen barbaric slavery and barbaric mind-control. But what about gentle mind-control I'm talking about here? When in fact you are slave, but don't even realize that, and don't care about that? You would be in quite a similar state as now, with the only difference - it will be only your masters who will decide what is better for you and the entire society, and Blood Magic will ensure you'll never disagree. For you, however, that will be as if it was your "free" decision - an illusion that keeps you under control.

If it were possible (we're talking about Thedas here), that would indeed sound interesting, but ultimately I wouldn't see the point. Illusion of choice against illusion of happines? I would totally go for the former, as I said if I make a (yet conditioned by external imput) choice I can hope it will lead me to happiness, and this is what brings me happiness, not some fancy blood ritual. Besides, read below:

Isn't that a good way of things when masters are wise and progressive? I believe it is one of the best ways to be no matter if you are slave or master in this system.

That's the problem. I would never trust a magister to be wise, nor progressive. Historia magistra vitae, as they say: didn't go well last time, why should it change now? Tevinter sure doesn't like to learn from its past.

Stagnation is only possible with poor ways of control. By poor control I do not mean only weak control. It can be strong control where rulers see only one way to be - "everything must remain as it is now". Well, and weak control means that people are just wandering without any purpose. Both lead to stagnation.

Strong control with uniting goal that contains the ideas of development and moving forwards in the world that is always shifting and changing is the best way to avoid stagnation. You can try to unite people by awesome speeches and celebrations, or by tyranny, but that will not last forever. But gentle, perfectly performed mind-control will.

There is very good example of mind-control in ME Trilogy - Leviathans' abilities and culture based on slavery, where slaves can't, unable to see themselves as slaves. And Leviathans can't control all lesser beings directly. They just organized system where a part of society is controlled directly, and rule the rest of the people. Like the Leviathan said to us in DLC, they still control few races that help them to survive Reaper invasions. It's more like a symbiosis. And something similar can be used for Tevinter Empire basis. Magisters are our "Leviathans", and Blood Magic is their unique mind-influencing ability. We know too little about Tevinter, and the theme should be expanded without all those "dark evil empire" silly standards.

...And happiness. Yes, it will not last forever if you don't have good enough fuel (like Blood Magic or Leviathans' abilities) for that. But we are not talking about modern real life here  

Modifié par Seival, 22 septembre 2013 - 02:54 .

[General TSAR]

jmadsen wrote...

Rise fellow mages, rise. For we shall take what is rightfully ours, by blood, ours and theirs, if need be.

Men, sharpen your oathkeepers. 

wolfhowwl wrote...

Anyone opposed to Seival being made tranquil?

No objection here.

Modifié par General TSAR, 22 septembre 2013 - 09:29 .

[Tremere]

Cirram55 wrote...
That's the problem. I would never trust a magister to be wise, nor progressive. Historia magistra vitae, as they say: didn't go well last time, why should it change now? Tevinter sure doesn't like to learn from its past.

Nor would I trust a Templar or even the average citizen of Thedas to be wise or progressive. So mired in certainty they are that they can't see the folly of their own ways. True, Tevinter seems unwilling to learn from it's past, but what is their past exactly? No one really knows the truth about what they were up to in their quest for power. Thus far, their prevailing major crime seems to be the desire to impose their will over everything and everyone, but I doubt that they speak for all Mages... Certainly not for mine.

Modifié par GabrielXL, 24 septembre 2013 - 09:48 .

[Ieldra]

GabrielXL wrote...

Cirram55 wrote...
That's the problem. I would never trust a magister to be wise, nor progressive. Historia magistra vitae, as they say: didn't go well last time, why should it change now? Tevinter sure doesn't like to learn from its past.

Nor would I trust a Templar or even the average citizen of Thedas to be wise or progressive. So mired in certainty they are that they can't see the folly of their own ways. True, Tevinter seems unwilling to learn from it's past, but what is their past exactly? No one really knows the truth about what they were up to in their quest for power. Thus far, their prevailing major crime seems to be the desire to impose their will over everything and everyone...

In other words, Tevinter is not so different from the templars, the Chantry, the qunari and the Orlesian Empire. It's only the entrenched culture of slavery and the possibility of blood sacrifice resulting from it which makes them distinct. But then, there's Tranquility and the qunari's mind-wiping drugs....

[dragonflight288]

Ieldra2 wrote...

GabrielXL wrote...

Cirram55 wrote...
That's the problem. I would never trust a magister to be wise, nor progressive. Historia magistra vitae, as they say: didn't go well last time, why should it change now? Tevinter sure doesn't like to learn from its past.

Nor would I trust a Templar or even the average citizen of Thedas to be wise or progressive. So mired in certainty they are that they can't see the folly of their own ways. True, Tevinter seems unwilling to learn from it's past, but what is their past exactly? No one really knows the truth about what they were up to in their quest for power. Thus far, their prevailing major crime seems to be the desire to impose their will over everything and everyone...

In other words, Tevinter is not so different from the templars, the Chantry, the qunari and the Orlesian Empire. It's only the entrenched culture of slavery and the possibility of blood sacrifice resulting from it which makes them distinct. But then, there's Tranquility and the qunari's mind-wiping drugs....

So in the end, what that really means is that Tevinter is no better or worse than Orlais or the Qun, or the Chantry.

[Nalia_dArnise]

Seival wrote...

The Tevinter Empire has to reborn and bring order to this world. Order without critical differences between different people. Order, where everyone are forced to co-exist in peace and harmony.

Isn't that a perfect goal for your inquisitor? It is for mine.

It will be interesting goal. After-Andraste Tevinter looks like more firm system, then Chantry-Orlesian one. But I don't think that any country exept Tevinter can have magocracy. Orlais with it's Chantry is deprecated, it's true, but, I think, the title of new Imperium must get Nevarra-- not Tevinter. Nevarra isn't magocracy, but relations with magic there was always more civilized, then in Orlais.

[Seival]

Nalia_dArnise wrote...

Seival wrote...

The Tevinter Empire has to reborn and bring order to this world. Order without critical differences between different people. Order, where everyone are forced to co-exist in peace and harmony.

Isn't that a perfect goal for your inquisitor? It is for mine.

It will be interesting goal. After-Andraste Tevinter looks like more firm system, then Chantry-Orlesian one. But I don't think that any country exept Tevinter can have magocracy. Orlais with it's Chantry is deprecated, it's true, but, I think, the title of new Imperium must get Nevarra-- not Tevinter. Nevarra isn't magocracy, but relations with magic there was always more civilized, then in Orlais.

Well, I really hope Tevinter will become huge part of DA:I story. Especially because DA:I will probably be the last part of DA story.

Had a strong feeling that I should create a picture dedicated to the positive side of Tevinter. And here it is

[Fast Jimmy]

I disagree that DA:I will be the last DA.

Mainly because the DA team has been scrambling to get to this title since DA:O came out. They want to begin dealing with the world in the post Mage/Templar existence. It has limited their world and encounter designs having all (or, at least, most) Mages supposed to be locked in a tower. Or, for that matter, dwarves out of Orzammar or Dalish out of their clans. I think the goal of DA:I has been a long-term goal of the DA team for quite some time - take everything out and out it in a giant blender, so a group of Mages, Qunari, elves, dwarves and humans all roaming around together doesn't seem like an insanely forced contrivance, by either the player's party or an NPC one.

[Seival]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I disagree that DA:I will be the last DA.

Mainly because the DA team has been scrambling to get to this title since DA:O came out. They want to begin dealing with the world in the post Mage/Templar existence. It has limited their world and encounter designs having all (or, at least, most) Mages supposed to be locked in a tower. Or, for that matter, dwarves out of Orzammar or Dalish out of their clans. I think the goal of DA:I has been a long-term goal of the DA team for quite some time - take everything out and out it in a giant blender, so a group of Mages, Qunari, elves, dwarves and humans all roaming around together doesn't seem like an insanely forced contrivance, by either the player's party or an NPC one.

Well, even considering several studios, BioWare is not a large company. They have to keep supporting SW MMO, They are working on a new IP, and new ME game. They will have to support C&C after release. They already don't have enough people for all of this, if we will keep in mind their very active recruiting... I'm sure they will not be able to sustain DA title for a long time. So, I'm afraid that DA:I will most likely be the last Dragon Age, and their next-gen "pilot" project.

[AresKeith]

Seival wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I disagree that DA:I will be the last DA.

Mainly because the DA team has been scrambling to get to this title since DA:O came out. They want to begin dealing with the world in the post Mage/Templar existence. It has limited their world and encounter designs having all (or, at least, most) Mages supposed to be locked in a tower. Or, for that matter, dwarves out of Orzammar or Dalish out of their clans. I think the goal of DA:I has been a long-term goal of the DA team for quite some time - take everything out and out it in a giant blender, so a group of Mages, Qunari, elves, dwarves and humans all roaming around together doesn't seem like an insanely forced contrivance, by either the player's party or an NPC one.

Well, even considering several studios, BioWare is not a large company. They have to keep supporting SW MMO, They are working on a new IP, and new ME game. They will have to support C&C after release. They already don't have enough people for all of this, if we will keep in mind their very active recruiting... I'm sure they will not be able to sustain DA title for a long time. So, I'm afraid that DA:I will most likely be the last Dragon Age, and their next-gen "pilot" project.

They already said a 5 game plan, DA:I is not the last DA game

[Sir DeLoria]

So in your eyes Stalin and Mao must've been great leaders and amazing men, Seival. They built empires on the bones of millions. Rome was amazing, because slavery is just and fair. Of course you can't choose what you are born as, but eh. The thriving and luxury of few is worth the suffering and oppression of the many. Unfairness is fairness.

Fascism and totalitarianism ftw!

[Seival]

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I disagree that DA:I will be the last DA.

Mainly because the DA team has been scrambling to get to this title since DA:O came out. They want to begin dealing with the world in the post Mage/Templar existence. It has limited their world and encounter designs having all (or, at least, most) Mages supposed to be locked in a tower. Or, for that matter, dwarves out of Orzammar or Dalish out of their clans. I think the goal of DA:I has been a long-term goal of the DA team for quite some time - take everything out and out it in a giant blender, so a group of Mages, Qunari, elves, dwarves and humans all roaming around together doesn't seem like an insanely forced contrivance, by either the player's party or an NPC one.

Well, even considering several studios, BioWare is not a large company. They have to keep supporting SW MMO, They are working on a new IP, and new ME game. They will have to support C&C after release. They already don't have enough people for all of this, if we will keep in mind their very active recruiting... I'm sure they will not be able to sustain DA title for a long time. So, I'm afraid that DA:I will most likely be the last Dragon Age, and their next-gen "pilot" project.

They already said a 5 game plan, DA:I is not the last DA game

That doesn't mean they will be making all 5 games simultaneously.

And DA:I really looks like the end.

Modifié par Seival, 05 octobre 2013 - 08:10 .

[AresKeith]

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I disagree that DA:I will be the last DA.

Mainly because the DA team has been scrambling to get to this title since DA:O came out. They want to begin dealing with the world in the post Mage/Templar existence. It has limited their world and encounter designs having all (or, at least, most) Mages supposed to be locked in a tower. Or, for that matter, dwarves out of Orzammar or Dalish out of their clans. I think the goal of DA:I has been a long-term goal of the DA team for quite some time - take everything out and out it in a giant blender, so a group of Mages, Qunari, elves, dwarves and humans all roaming around together doesn't seem like an insanely forced contrivance, by either the player's party or an NPC one.

Well, even considering several studios, BioWare is not a large company. They have to keep supporting SW MMO, They are working on a new IP, and new ME game. They will have to support C&C after release. They already don't have enough people for all of this, if we will keep in mind their very active recruiting... I'm sure they will not be able to sustain DA title for a long time. So, I'm afraid that DA:I will most likely be the last Dragon Age, and their next-gen "pilot" project.

They already said a 5 game plan, DA:I is not the last DA game

That doesn't mean they will be making all 5 games simultaneously.

And DA:I really looks like the end.

That doesn't make sense, just because they can't make all the game simultaneously doesn't mean it's gonna be the last DA game

And how does DA:I look the end?

[Seival]

Necanor wrote...

So in your eyes Stalin and Mao must've been great leaders and amazing men, Seival. They built empires on the bones of millions. Rome was amazing, because slavery is just and fair. Of course you can't choose what you are born as, but eh. The thriving and luxury of few is worth the suffering and oppression of the many. Unfairness is fairness.

Fascism and totalitarianism ftw!

Nothing like that.
I'm saying there is nothing bad in things like this:

"The Amarr Empress rules the largest and oldest of the four empires, a vast theocracy supported by Minmatar slave labor. Amarrian citizens tend to be highly educated and fervently believe that slavery is but one step on a spiritual path toward fully embracing faith. Despite several recent setbacks, the Amarr Empire is the most stable nation and most powerful military in New Eden. Allied to the Caldari State, they wish to reclaim the Minmatar Republic."

"Founded on the tenets of patriotism and hard work that carried its forebears through hardships on an inhospitable homeworld, the Caldari State of today is a corporate dictatorship, led by rulers determined to return to the meritocracy. Ruthless and efficient in the boardroom and on the battlefield, the Caldari are living emblems of strength, persistence, and dignity. The Caldari are allies of the Amarr Empire and are locked in war with the Gallente Federation."

No oppression. Just people (even slaves) who believe they have the best way to be.
Ancient and reborn Tevinter can be like that. And there is noting bad in this.

Modifié par Seival, 05 octobre 2013 - 08:22 .

[Br3admax]

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I disagree that DA:I will be the last DA.

Mainly because the DA team has been scrambling to get to this title since DA:O came out. They want to begin dealing with the world in the post Mage/Templar existence. It has limited their world and encounter designs having all (or, at least, most) Mages supposed to be locked in a tower. Or, for that matter, dwarves out of Orzammar or Dalish out of their clans. I think the goal of DA:I has been a long-term goal of the DA team for quite some time - take everything out and out it in a giant blender, so a group of Mages, Qunari, elves, dwarves and humans all roaming around together doesn't seem like an insanely forced contrivance, by either the player's party or an NPC one.

Well, even considering several studios, BioWare is not a large company. They have to keep supporting SW MMO, They are working on a new IP, and new ME game. They will have to support C&C after release. They already don't have enough people for all of this, if we will keep in mind their very active recruiting... I'm sure they will not be able to sustain DA title for a long time. So, I'm afraid that DA:I will most likely be the last Dragon Age, and their next-gen "pilot" project.

They already said a 5 game plan, DA:I is not the last DA game

That doesn't mean they will be making all 5 games simultaneously.

And DA:I really looks like the end.

That doesn't make sense, just because they can't make all the game simultaneously doesn't mean it's gonna be the last DA game

And how does DA:I look the end?

Put on your troll glasses, it'll make a lot more sense. 

[Seival]

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I disagree that DA:I will be the last DA.

Mainly because the DA team has been scrambling to get to this title since DA:O came out. They want to begin dealing with the world in the post Mage/Templar existence. It has limited their world and encounter designs having all (or, at least, most) Mages supposed to be locked in a tower. Or, for that matter, dwarves out of Orzammar or Dalish out of their clans. I think the goal of DA:I has been a long-term goal of the DA team for quite some time - take everything out and out it in a giant blender, so a group of Mages, Qunari, elves, dwarves and humans all roaming around together doesn't seem like an insanely forced contrivance, by either the player's party or an NPC one.

Well, even considering several studios, BioWare is not a large company. They have to keep supporting SW MMO, They are working on a new IP, and new ME game. They will have to support C&C after release. They already don't have enough people for all of this, if we will keep in mind their very active recruiting... I'm sure they will not be able to sustain DA title for a long time. So, I'm afraid that DA:I will most likely be the last Dragon Age, and their next-gen "pilot" project.

They already said a 5 game plan, DA:I is not the last DA game

That doesn't mean they will be making all 5 games simultaneously.

And DA:I really looks like the end.

That doesn't make sense, just because they can't make all the game simultaneously doesn't mean it's gonna be the last DA game

And how does DA:I look the end?

It feels like an epic denouement, according to the info we know.

They might create new games in DAU in the future, but I really doubt that. And if they will, that will not be DA anymore. Just like new ME game will not be ME4.

Modifié par Seival, 05 octobre 2013 - 08:32 .

[Reofeir]

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I disagree that DA:I will be the last DA.

Mainly because the DA team has been scrambling to get to this title since DA:O came out. They want to begin dealing with the world in the post Mage/Templar existence. It has limited their world and encounter designs having all (or, at least, most) Mages supposed to be locked in a tower. Or, for that matter, dwarves out of Orzammar or Dalish out of their clans. I think the goal of DA:I has been a long-term goal of the DA team for quite some time - take everything out and out it in a giant blender, so a group of Mages, Qunari, elves, dwarves and humans all roaming around together doesn't seem like an insanely forced contrivance, by either the player's party or an NPC one.

Well, even considering several studios, BioWare is not a large company. They have to keep supporting SW MMO, They are working on a new IP, and new ME game. They will have to support C&C after release. They already don't have enough people for all of this, if we will keep in mind their very active recruiting... I'm sure they will not be able to sustain DA title for a long time. So, I'm afraid that DA:I will most likely be the last Dragon Age, and their next-gen "pilot" project.

They already said a 5 game plan, DA:I is not the last DA game

That doesn't mean they will be making all 5 games simultaneously.

And DA:I really looks like the end.

DA:I, to our knowledge, will be only travelling four different countries out of the many of Thedas. It would be as if TES franchise just stopped because of game had a cool event. You keep going as long as you have stories to tell.

[AresKeith]

Seival wrote...

It feels like an epic denouement, according to the info we know.

They might create new games in DAU in the future, but I really doubt in that. And if they will, that will not be DA anymore. Just like new ME game will not be ME4.

They're not gonna make a new DAU, plus we still haven't explored the rest of Thedas and other events still haven't happened

[Reofeir]

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I disagree that DA:I will be the last DA.

Mainly because the DA team has been scrambling to get to this title since DA:O came out. They want to begin dealing with the world in the post Mage/Templar existence. It has limited their world and encounter designs having all (or, at least, most) Mages supposed to be locked in a tower. Or, for that matter, dwarves out of Orzammar or Dalish out of their clans. I think the goal of DA:I has been a long-term goal of the DA team for quite some time - take everything out and out it in a giant blender, so a group of Mages, Qunari, elves, dwarves and humans all roaming around together doesn't seem like an insanely forced contrivance, by either the player's party or an NPC one.

Well, even considering several studios, BioWare is not a large company. They have to keep supporting SW MMO, They are working on a new IP, and new ME game. They will have to support C&C after release. They already don't have enough people for all of this, if we will keep in mind their very active recruiting... I'm sure they will not be able to sustain DA title for a long time. So, I'm afraid that DA:I will most likely be the last Dragon Age, and their next-gen "pilot" project.

They already said a 5 game plan, DA:I is not the last DA game

That doesn't mean they will be making all 5 games simultaneously.

And DA:I really looks like the end.

That doesn't make sense, just because they can't make all the game simultaneously doesn't mean it's gonna be the last DA game

And how does DA:I look the end?

It feels like an epic denouement, according to the info we know.

They might create new games in DAU in the future, but I really doubt in that. And if they will, that will not be DA anymore. Just like new ME game will not be ME4.

The next Mass Effect game won't be ME4 because ME1-3 is Shepard. Mass Effect will most likely = Mass Effect.
Unlike ME1-3 this game only seems to going to show us the effects of part of the world. We'd still don't know tevinter, Par vollen, rivian, anderfalls, etc. 
So much to explore, so much that will still be Dragon Age. We also have two blights that still havn't happened yet. 

[Seival]

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

It feels like an epic denouement, according to the info we know.

They might create new games in DAU in the future, but I really doubt in that. And if they will, that will not be DA anymore. Just like new ME game will not be ME4.

They're not gonna make a new DAU, plus we still haven't explored the rest of Thedas and other events still haven't happened

Well, time will tell.

[AresKeith]

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

It feels like an epic denouement, according to the info we know.

They might create new games in DAU in the future, but I really doubt in that. And if they will, that will not be DA anymore. Just like new ME game will not be ME4.

They're not gonna make a new DAU, plus we still haven't explored the rest of Thedas and other events still haven't happened

Well, time will tell.

If you say so, because they already mentioned a 5 game plan

Just because Bioware has other games planned as well doesn't change anything, and anything past the events of DA:I is still part of the same DAU