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Magic exists to rule over man and never to serve him.


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#126
Guest_LindsayLohan_*

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KallianaTabris wrote...



LindsayLohan wrote...

Oh nice! I like mages! They have good conversation when tranquil and they are so calm to. I had this joke where, we gather up all the children that show traces of magic and we send them to this tower LOL(good part) and we force them to use magic according to our regulations. The Killer punchline is mages that run away from the circle, are called apostates! This means we might capture them again, punish them or even kill them....good times


lol I was joking! What else can you do in a thread like this?


I do enjoy murdering mages though.....should I get help?

#127
Cainhurst Crow

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Jimmy's Jimmes are the nokia 3310 of jimmies?

#128
Fast Jimmy

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Reaverwind wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Why not qunari then? They tend to control people even better, especially mages.


Yep. You want control - see the Qunari. They know how to handle mages. :devil:


From what we know, the Qunari have better healthcare, technology and quality of life than any other nation in Thedas. We haven't seen much of their culture, to be fair, but there is a strong argument to be made there, as well. 

#129
Seival

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Why not qunari then? They tend to control people even better, especially mages.


Yep. You want control - see the Qunari. They know how to handle mages. :devil:


From what we know, the Qunari have better healthcare, technology and quality of life than any other nation in Thedas. We haven't seen much of their culture, to be fair, but there is a strong argument to be made there, as well. 


Having a gunpowder doesn't make them very advanced. Qunari are still barbarians with ruthless methods of controlling their society. Blood Magic and Magocracy are much more advanced and gentle. That's why I like Tevinter Empire and dislike Qunari.

Modifié par Seival, 14 septembre 2013 - 09:49 .


#130
Steelcan

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@Seival, Qunari indoctrination seems to be much more effective.

#131
Seival

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Steelcan wrote...

@Seival, Qunari indoctrination seems to be much more effective.


Why do you think so?

#132
Reaverwind

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Steelcan wrote...

@Seival, Qunari indoctrination seems to be much more effective.


Not to mention, the life expectancy is better. :P

#133
Steelcan

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Seival wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@Seival, Qunari indoctrination seems to be much more effective.


Why do you think so?

Tevinter slaves rise up and fight back, qunari who have failed in their obligation to the Qun kill themselves.

#134
Navasha

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Why not qunari then? They tend to control people even better, especially mages.


Yep. You want control - see the Qunari. They know how to handle mages. :devil:


From what we know, the Qunari have better healthcare, technology and quality of life than any other nation in Thedas. We haven't seen much of their culture, to be fair, but there is a strong argument to be made there, as well. 


That's kind of the same silly argument Seival is making....   Slavery is slavery.   There is no such thing as a quality of life when you are slave.   I can see the advertisement now..

"Come!  Join the Qunari collective.   As a slave to our way of thinking you will enjoy great medical benefits!  
(small print:   provided your benefit to society is greater than the resources it would take to keep you alive... then we kill you)

#135
Seival

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Steelcan wrote...

Seival wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@Seival, Qunari indoctrination seems to be much more effective.


Why do you think so?

Tevinter slaves rise up and fight back, qunari who have failed in their obligation to the Qun kill themselves.


DA:O and DA2 disprove that assumption. Remember how many "Qun*less" Qunari mercs and bandits did we kill?

And how many unhappy Tevinter slaves did we encounter? Just one.

#136
Protodega

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"Magic exists to rule over man, never to serve him."

There's an aspect of that that you're missing, here. If magic itself rules over man, then you're not talking about a magocracy, as the Magisters would be ruled by magic as much as any mundane citizen. You're talking about surrendering identity to the fade. On this logic, everyone must allow themselves to become possessed.

Trying to say that letting magic rule is about control is contradictory.

#137
MadCat221

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*EDIT* thought this was the other thread.

Modifié par MadCat221, 14 septembre 2013 - 10:23 .


#138
Seival

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Protodega wrote...

"Magic exists to rule over man, never to serve him."

There's an aspect of that that you're missing, here. If magic itself rules over man, then you're not talking about a magocracy, as the Magisters would be ruled by magic as much as any mundane citizen. You're talking about surrendering identity to the fade. On this logic, everyone must allow themselves to become possessed.

Trying to say that letting magic rule is about control is contradictory.


I see no contradictions here. We are talking about Blood Magic. And Magocracy is built around Blood Magic.

#139
Mr.House

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Who gave Sevial drugs again?

Modifié par Mr.House, 14 septembre 2013 - 10:20 .


#140
Kaidan Fan

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Seival wrote...

Magic exists to rule over man and never to serve him.

With great power comes great responsibility.
Magic has to rule over the people to keep them under control.
Without control the order would be impossible.
Without order the survival would be impossible.
Without survival the people are history.

Blood Magic.
Magocracy.
Perfectly controlled society.
The best hope for the bright future.

The Tevinter Empire has to reborn and bring order to this world. Order without critical differences between different people. Order, where everyone are forced to co-exist in peace and harmony.



Isn't that a perfect goal for your inquisitor? It is for mine.


Absolutely not.  Aren't you supposed to be in the synthesis support threads anyways?  :P

Forcing people into something is not a good idea.  Doing what you deem to be best for them doesn't make it right.

#141
Seival

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Kaidan Fan wrote...

Seival wrote...

Magic exists to rule over man and never to serve him.

With great power comes great responsibility.
Magic has to rule over the people to keep them under control.
Without control the order would be impossible.
Without order the survival would be impossible.
Without survival the people are history.

Blood Magic.
Magocracy.
Perfectly controlled society.
The best hope for the bright future.

The Tevinter Empire has to reborn and bring order to this world. Order without critical differences between different people. Order, where everyone are forced to co-exist in peace and harmony.



Isn't that a perfect goal for your inquisitor? It is for mine.


Absolutely not.  Aren't you supposed to be in the synthesis support threads anyways?  :P

Forcing people into something is not a good idea.  Doing what you deem to be best for them doesn't make it right.


Forcing people into doing something good is very good idea.

Each person is guilty in every good thing he didn't make.

#142
Protodega

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Seival wrote...

Protodega wrote...

"Magic exists to rule over man, never to serve him."

There's an aspect of that that you're missing, here. If magic itself rules over man, then you're not talking about a magocracy, as the Magisters would be ruled by magic as much as any mundane citizen. You're talking about surrendering identity to the fade. On this logic, everyone must allow themselves to become possessed.

Trying to say that letting magic rule is about control is contradictory.


I see no contradictions here. We are talking about Blood Magic. And Magocracy is built around Blood Magic.


No. A Magocracy is built around the use of Blood Magic. Around a small number of men using magic to suit their own ends, and build a society according to their will.

Letting magic rule over man would make such a thing heretical. Men would have to allow magic to control them, not use it to exert control over others. This includes the Magisters.

A better example for this would be Rivain, where seers allow themselves to become possessed. Not Tevinter, new or old.

Modifié par Protodega, 14 septembre 2013 - 10:27 .


#143
Kaidan Fan

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Seival wrote...

Kaidan Fan wrote...

Seival wrote...

Magic exists to rule over man and never to serve him.

With great power comes great responsibility.
Magic has to rule over the people to keep them under control.
Without control the order would be impossible.
Without order the survival would be impossible.
Without survival the people are history.

Blood Magic.
Magocracy.
Perfectly controlled society.
The best hope for the bright future.

The Tevinter Empire has to reborn and bring order to this world. Order without critical differences between different people. Order, where everyone are forced to co-exist in peace and harmony.



Isn't that a perfect goal for your inquisitor? It is for mine.


Absolutely not.  Aren't you supposed to be in the synthesis support threads anyways?  :P

Forcing people into something is not a good idea.  Doing what you deem to be best for them doesn't make it right.


Forcing people into doing something good is very good idea.

Each person is guilty in every good thing he didn't make.


I won't dance with you Seival.  I know you're just a well spoken t word  <3

#144
billy the squid

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Mr.House wrote...

Who gave Sevial drugs again?


Drugs? What drugs? he's always batcrap crazy.

#145
Vit246

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Don't feed Seival. He supports the ME3 endings.

#146
K_Tabris

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Vit246 wrote...

Don't feed Seival. He supports the ME3 endings.


wuh? ... How. ...!?

billy the squid wrote...

Drugs? What drugs? he's always batcrap crazy.


ohhh, that's why. Dun w/ dis thread.

#147
Vit246

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KallianaTabris wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

Don't feed Seival. He supports the ME3 endings.


wuh? ... How. ...!?


He has a reputation on the ME3 boards.

#148
Reofeir

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Mr.House wrote...

Who gave Sevial drugs again?



#149
Swagger7

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RazorrX wrote...

Since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved.

Niccolo Machiavelli - 'The Prince'


I wondered when someone would bring up Machiavelli.

A number of historians believe that The Prince was actually either a satire intended to show the evils of tyrany, or sabatoge intended to give bad advice to tyrants.  For one thing, it goes against the grain of Machiavelli's other works towards the promotion of republicanism.  The circumstances of its creation also make it hard to take seriously.  Machiavelli was a member of the government of the Republic of Florence when the Medicis took over and destroyed the republic.  He was tortured and exiled by them.  That same year he wrote The Prince, and dedicated it to one of the Medici family (Lorenzo, IIRC).  It also contains somewhat bad advice, like combining arming the populace with cracking down on liberties.  The Prince wasn't even published in Machiavelli's lifetime.  it was just sent to Lorenzo de Medici and circulated amongst the friends of Machiavelli.  The publication occurred five years after his death, so we have no idea what kind of subtext might be missing.

With all of this taken together, I find it hard to believe that Machiavelli was serious when he wrote The Prince.  If you wish to learn Machiavelli's true feelings on governance, read his "Discourses on Livy".  It contains statements such as these:

"We furthermore see the cities where the people are masters make the
greatest progress in the least possible time, and much greater than such
as have always been governed by princes; as was the case with Rome
after the expulsion of the kings, and with Athens after they rid
themselves of Pisistratus; and this can be attributed to no other cause
than that the governments of the people are better than those of
princes."

"It would be useless to object to my opinion by referring to what our
historian has said in the passages quoted above, and elsewhere; for if
we compare the faults of a people with those of princes, as well as
their respective good qualities, we shall find the people vastly
superior in all that is good and glorious. And if princes show
themselves superior in the making of laws, and in the forming of civil
institutions and new statutes and ordinances, the people are superior in
maintaining those institutions, laws, and ordinances, which certainly
places them on a par with those who established them."



As just a random aside, anyone interested in fiction exploring the concept of balancing what is beneficial for a group of people with their free will (when the poeple are on a self-destructive path) should read Tuf Voyaging, by George R R Martin.  It's an absolutely amazing science fiction novel created out of a few short stories he wrote, with a conclusion that sticks with you and really makes you think.

Modifié par Swagger7, 14 septembre 2013 - 11:20 .


#150
Xilizhra

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I also don't despise the ME3 endings, so... pillory me as well?

As for the thread, I don't see magocracy as worse than any of the other universally non-democratic governments in the nations of Thedas.