182 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

Hazegurl wrote...

Emotionally=Mages
Logically=Templars

Otherwise it will be totally up to the PC on who gets support.

Flip it. It 
Logically=Mages
Emotionally=Templars.

Templars are exsensive to maintain with there need of lyrium. They are money sinks.

[Angrywolves]

Mages.
I expect even neutrals will turn anti Templar because of the Red Templars.

[mikeymoonshine]

@Master Warder Z

Alistair demonstrates in DA2 that he supports the Mages somewhat. I think Anora would be more likely to support the Templar's if anyone would either way.

I doubt any nation will get involved in this war though.

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Emotionally=Mages
Logically=Templars

Otherwise it will be totally up to the PC on who gets support.

Flip it. It 
Logically=Mages
Emotionally=Templars.

Templars are exsensive to maintain with there need of lyrium. They are money sinks.

Mages need Lyium, Guards, Towers to house them, Teachers to educate them and constant oversight.

Mages are far more expensive.

So there is no logic  in it. at least in the Monetary reasoning you are attempting to use.

[Master Warder Z_]

mikeymoonshine wrote...

@Master Warder Z

Alistair demonstrates in DA2 that he supports the Mages somewhat. I think Anora would be more likely to support the Templar's if anyone would either way.

I doubt any nation will get involved in this war though.

And his History gives him clear reason to support the Templars; Giving three rogue mages shelter in their circle isn't the same as him declaring all mages free of oversight or chantry restriction.

He may feel soft for the robes but i doubt he would put his Nation at risk over them when he has personal expreince of what they can become.

That said i sort of understand that sentiment and agree with it, i do believe that if Nations to become involved it will likely be at the behest of the PC.

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Emotionally=Mages
Logically=Templars

Otherwise it will be totally up to the PC on who gets support.

Flip it. It 
Logically=Mages
Emotionally=Templars.

Templars are exsensive to maintain with there need of lyrium. They are money sinks.

Mages need Lyium, Guards, Towers to house them, Teachers to educate them and constant oversight.

Mages are far more expensive.

So there is no logic  in it. at least in the Monetary reasoning you are attempting to use.

Mage's don't need lyrium no where near as much as templars. They don't shut down with out it and can gain power in mutiple ways. Templars need lyrium the most.
Mages can guard themselve and teach is not expensive.

In  war a person that needs something every month if they want to function has the most issues. And templars has an entire army of that.

[Steelcan]

Well the nations are a bit busy. Orlais is in a civil war, Ferelden is still recovering from a Blight, Tevinter who would obviously help the mages is under siege by the qunari. And the other nations, excepting Nerrevar are not powerful enough to make much of a difference.

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...

mikeymoonshine wrote...

@Master Warder Z

Alistair demonstrates in DA2 that he supports the Mages somewhat. I think Anora would be more likely to support the Templar's if anyone would either way.

I doubt any nation will get involved in this war though.

And his History gives him clear reason to support the Templars; Giving three rogue mages shelter in their circle isn't the same as him declaring all mages free of oversight or chantry restriction.

He may feel soft for the robes but i doubt he would put his Nation at risk over them when he has personal expreince of what they can become.

That said i sort of understand that sentiment and agree with it, i do believe that if Nations to become involved it will likely be at the behest of the PC.

Please, if anything he dipise the templars. He even went a said he would kick them out of his country if he could.

[leaguer of one]

Steelcan wrote...

Well the nations are a bit busy. Orlais is in a civil war, Ferelden is still recovering from a Blight, Tevinter who would obviously help the mages is under siege by the qunari. And the other nations, excepting Nerrevar are not powerful enough to make much of a difference.

This is an advantage really. Orlais is in a civil war and both sides are in need. Mages can esialy turn the tide of a war and both sides of the Orlais civil war knows this. It's easy to see both sides trying to get mages support of templar support.

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

mikeymoonshine wrote...

@Master Warder Z

Alistair demonstrates in DA2 that he supports the Mages somewhat. I think Anora would be more likely to support the Templar's if anyone would either way.

I doubt any nation will get involved in this war though.

And his History gives him clear reason to support the Templars; Giving three rogue mages shelter in their circle isn't the same as him declaring all mages free of oversight or chantry restriction.

He may feel soft for the robes but i doubt he would put his Nation at risk over them when he has personal expreince of what they can become.

That said i sort of understand that sentiment and agree with it, i do believe that if Nations to become involved it will likely be at the behest of the PC.

Please, if anything he dipise the templars. He even went a said he would kick them out of his country if he could.

No he didn't?

I just did a DA2 walkthrough and even after having his willy shrunken by the Knight Commander he said nothing to that effect.

But if you can provide a viable source feel free to do so.

[Master Warder Z_]

Steelcan wrote...

Well the nations are a bit busy. Orlais is in a civil war, Ferelden is still recovering from a Blight, Tevinter who would obviously help the mages is under siege by the qunari. And the other nations, excepting Nerrevar are not powerful enough to make much of a difference.

Minor support matters in war Steel.

Having premission to march through a country rather then just marching through it with your army tends to avoid confusion.

Its not as good as say Orlais commiting fifteen thousand soldiers to put the mages back in their place but its something.

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Emotionally=Mages
Logically=Templars

Otherwise it will be totally up to the PC on who gets support.

Flip it. It 
Logically=Mages
Emotionally=Templars.

Templars are exsensive to maintain with there need of lyrium. They are money sinks.

Mages need Lyium, Guards, Towers to house them, Teachers to educate them and constant oversight.

Mages are far more expensive.

So there is no logic  in it. at least in the Monetary reasoning you are attempting to use.

Mage's don't need lyrium no where near as much as templars. They don't shut down with out it and can gain power in mutiple ways. Templars need lyrium the most.
Mages can guard themselve and teach is not expensive.

In  war a person that needs something every month if they want to function has the most issues. And templars has an entire army of that.

Generally by rest or using Blood Magic are the two common non Lyrium based ways.

Not one mage has inexhaustable mana so far.

And your other agruments really don't address my point; A good deal of the Chantries expenses went to maintaing the circles and you apparently think they can fullfill that role themselves.

With what? There is no chantry to pay the bills anymore, Unless if you think Mages will work gratas which i think is unlikely.

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

mikeymoonshine wrote...

@Master Warder Z

Alistair demonstrates in DA2 that he supports the Mages somewhat. I think Anora would be more likely to support the Templar's if anyone would either way.

I doubt any nation will get involved in this war though.

And his History gives him clear reason to support the Templars; Giving three rogue mages shelter in their circle isn't the same as him declaring all mages free of oversight or chantry restriction.

He may feel soft for the robes but i doubt he would put his Nation at risk over them when he has personal expreince of what they can become.

That said i sort of understand that sentiment and agree with it, i do believe that if Nations to become involved it will likely be at the behest of the PC.

Please, if anything he dipise the templars. He even went a said he would kick them out of his country if he could.

No he didn't?

I just did a DA2 walkthrough and even after having his willy shrunken by the Knight Commander he said nothing to that effect.

But if you can provide a viable source feel free to do so.

Hawke ask him why he does not just kick the templars out Alistars says "Easier said then done." It means he is thinking about it.
He also say" Apparently I don't feel the same way the chantry does." with the issue of mages.
Sorry, nothing Alistar say sides him with the templars.

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

mikeymoonshine wrote...

@Master Warder Z

Alistair demonstrates in DA2 that he supports the Mages somewhat. I think Anora would be more likely to support the Templar's if anyone would either way.

I doubt any nation will get involved in this war though.

And his History gives him clear reason to support the Templars; Giving three rogue mages shelter in their circle isn't the same as him declaring all mages free of oversight or chantry restriction.

He may feel soft for the robes but i doubt he would put his Nation at risk over them when he has personal expreince of what they can become.

That said i sort of understand that sentiment and agree with it, i do believe that if Nations to become involved it will likely be at the behest of the PC.

Please, if anything he dipise the templars. He even went a said he would kick them out of his country if he could.

No he didn't?

I just did a DA2 walkthrough and even after having his willy shrunken by the Knight Commander he said nothing to that effect.

But if you can provide a viable source feel free to do so.

Hawke ask him why he does not just kick the templars out Alistars says "Easier said then done." It means he is thinking about it.
He also say" Apparently I don't feel the same way the chantry does." with the issue of mages.
Sorry, nothing Alistar say sides him with the templars.

Source?

And that said neither of those is "I am going to kick the Templars out at the first chance i get" Its "What you ask isn't politically possible and i know a handful of mages that saved my country and therefore owe them a debt not to take the Chantries view."

So nothing he said here sides him with the Mages.

But his past history with the Templars which implies he even enjoyed despite the situation being abismal should speak volumes.

But you can speak your speculation on what he means for another Year for all i care, its not like he said it cut and dry to begin with.

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Emotionally=Mages
Logically=Templars

Otherwise it will be totally up to the PC on who gets support.

Flip it. It 
Logically=Mages
Emotionally=Templars.

Templars are exsensive to maintain with there need of lyrium. They are money sinks.

Mages need Lyium, Guards, Towers to house them, Teachers to educate them and constant oversight.

Mages are far more expensive.

So there is no logic  in it. at least in the Monetary reasoning you are attempting to use.

Mage's don't need lyrium no where near as much as templars. They don't shut down with out it and can gain power in mutiple ways. Templars need lyrium the most.
Mages can guard themselve and teach is not expensive.

In  war a person that needs something every month if they want to function has the most issues. And templars has an entire army of that.

Generally by rest or using Blood Magic are the two common non Lyrium based ways.

Not one mage has inexhaustable mana so far.

And your other agruments really don't address my point; A good deal of the Chantries expenses went to maintaing the circles and you apparently think they can fullfill that role themselves.

With what? There is no chantry to pay the bills anymore, Unless if you think Mages will work gratas which i think is unlikely.

Not true. Look up spirit magic and you see you have more ways to retore magic. It's not just rest and  blood magic.

And the chantry expense when to guarding the mages, and suppling the templars and mages both.  The templars are still the more expensive due to the need of lyrium. The mages expense was being clothed, eating, training and housing...Which the templars also where supported with. JNust because the mages have to have all that does not make them more expencive then the templars. The templars need all that and expensive lyrium.
Templars are still way more expensive and that is going up in this war. In any war a much need resource price with shyrocket. Lyrium is the resource.  Templars need it more them mages because they can't funtion with out it.

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

mikeymoonshine wrote...

@Master Warder Z

Alistair demonstrates in DA2 that he supports the Mages somewhat. I think Anora would be more likely to support the Templar's if anyone would either way.

I doubt any nation will get involved in this war though.

And his History gives him clear reason to support the Templars; Giving three rogue mages shelter in their circle isn't the same as him declaring all mages free of oversight or chantry restriction.

He may feel soft for the robes but i doubt he would put his Nation at risk over them when he has personal expreince of what they can become.

That said i sort of understand that sentiment and agree with it, i do believe that if Nations to become involved it will likely be at the behest of the PC.

Please, if anything he dipise the templars. He even went a said he would kick them out of his country if he could.

No he didn't?

I just did a DA2 walkthrough and even after having his willy shrunken by the Knight Commander he said nothing to that effect.

But if you can provide a viable source feel free to do so.

Hawke ask him why he does not just kick the templars out Alistars says "Easier said then done." It means he is thinking about it.
He also say" Apparently I don't feel the same way the chantry does." with the issue of mages.
Sorry, nothing Alistar say sides him with the templars.

Source?

And that said neither of those is "I am going to kick the Templars out at the first chance i get" Its "What you ask isn't politically possible and i know a handful of mages that saved my country and therefore owe them a debt not to take the Chantries view."

So nothing he said here sides him with the Mages.

But his past history with the Templars which implies he even enjoyed despite the situation being abismal should speak volumes.

But you can speak your speculation on what he means for another Year for all i care, its not like he said it cut and dry to begin with.

Hawke ask him why he does not just kick the templars out Alistars says "Easier said then done." at 2:58

He also say" Apparently I don't feel the same way the chantry does." with the issue of mages at 2:29.

Also, in DA:O Alistar made it a point that he hated being a templer. In da2 he makes it clear he is pro mage.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 15 septembre 2013 - 04:35 .

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Emotionally=Mages
Logically=Templars

Otherwise it will be totally up to the PC on who gets support.

Flip it. It 
Logically=Mages
Emotionally=Templars.

Templars are exsensive to maintain with there need of lyrium. They are money sinks.

Mages need Lyium, Guards, Towers to house them, Teachers to educate them and constant oversight.

Mages are far more expensive.

So there is no logic  in it. at least in the Monetary reasoning you are attempting to use.

Mage's don't need lyrium no where near as much as templars. They don't shut down with out it and can gain power in mutiple ways. Templars need lyrium the most.
Mages can guard themselve and teach is not expensive.

In  war a person that needs something every month if they want to function has the most issues. And templars has an entire army of that.

Generally by rest or using Blood Magic are the two common non Lyrium based ways.

Not one mage has inexhaustable mana so far.

And your other agruments really don't address my point; A good deal of the Chantries expenses went to maintaing the circles and you apparently think they can fullfill that role themselves.

With what? There is no chantry to pay the bills anymore, Unless if you think Mages will work gratas which i think is unlikely.

Not true. Look up spirit magic and you see you have more ways to retore magic. It's not just rest and  blood magic.

And the chantry expense when to guarding the mages, and suppling the templars and mages both.  The templars are still the more expensive due to the need of lyrium. The mages expense was being clothed, eating, training and housing...Which the templars also where supported with. JNust because the mages have to have all that does not make them more expencive then the templars. The templars need all that and expensive lyrium.
Templars are still way more expensive and that is going up in this war. In any war a much need resource price with shyrocket. Lyrium is the resource.  Templars need it more them mages because they can't funtion with out it.

You think? Well we will see; Your speculation aside i think the Mining Castes will keep up demand as they have for centuries during Exalted Marches, Blights and many other events before this war.

And that said you still have these faculities being built and maintained for Templars when in some cases they weren't sharing a Tower so far there are only three towers where you have Templars and Mages sharing living space.

Fereldan, Kirkwall and the White Spire in Orlais.

However in Ravain, An isolated Island in the waking sea and several other places you Templars and mages living seperate would in fact mean that you have entire structures devoted solely to mages and thus constructed entirely for them.

And you keep harping on how Lyrium is so expensive, Except that the Templars have fairly deep pockets it comes with being the Order after all. The Chantry controlled the Lyrium trade for centuries and the Templars have their own connections as DAO and DA2 proved that go through their own connections.

So even if the Chantry access was cut off although i doubt it will be you still have them having access to it.

And really? The Resources to build enchantments, Staves and all these other magical tools came from the chantry, You have a massive list that go beyond the circles, importing mages and even Lyrium.

The Templars occasionally need arms and armor but their only true constant expense is Lyrium and the Dwarves aren't exactly hurting for that rock.

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

mikeymoonshine wrote...

@Master Warder Z

Alistair demonstrates in DA2 that he supports the Mages somewhat. I think Anora would be more likely to support the Templar's if anyone would either way.

I doubt any nation will get involved in this war though.

And his History gives him clear reason to support the Templars; Giving three rogue mages shelter in their circle isn't the same as him declaring all mages free of oversight or chantry restriction.

He may feel soft for the robes but i doubt he would put his Nation at risk over them when he has personal expreince of what they can become.

That said i sort of understand that sentiment and agree with it, i do believe that if Nations to become involved it will likely be at the behest of the PC.

Please, if anything he dipise the templars. He even went a said he would kick them out of his country if he could.

No he didn't?

I just did a DA2 walkthrough and even after having his willy shrunken by the Knight Commander he said nothing to that effect.

But if you can provide a viable source feel free to do so.

Hawke ask him why he does not just kick the templars out Alistars says "Easier said then done." It means he is thinking about it.
He also say" Apparently I don't feel the same way the chantry does." with the issue of mages.
Sorry, nothing Alistar say sides him with the templars.

Source?

And that said neither of those is "I am going to kick the Templars out at the first chance i get" Its "What you ask isn't politically possible and i know a handful of mages that saved my country and therefore owe them a debt not to take the Chantries view."

So nothing he said here sides him with the Mages.

But his past history with the Templars which implies he even enjoyed despite the situation being abismal should speak volumes.

But you can speak your speculation on what he means for another Year for all i care, its not like he said it cut and dry to begin with.

Hawke ask him why he does not just kick the templars out Alistars says "Easier said then done." at 2:58

He also say" Apparently I don't feel the same way the chantry does." with the issue of mages at 2:29.

Also, in DA:O Alistar made it a point that he hated being a templer. In da2 he makes it clear he is pro mage.

Your basing his National political policy on two comments to a foreign Nation in a Chantry ran citadel? Alrightie then but let prove you wrong just to feel better.

His entire conversation tree in DAO 

That situation you mentioned where he "hated" being a Templar apparently doesn't show it self.

www.youtube.com/watch

So either you were incorrect or it was an assumption.

And again that could mean several things; Such as the Political situation that would cause could be worse then a blight.

So i really don't see anything to paint him as pro Mage, but he does seem to find certain things about being a Templar and his time there enjoyable and considering he showed no disrepect to several templars encountered and even spoke respectfully to one (The Knight Commander) You have him showing little to no ill will to the chantry or templars themselves.

So him being pro mage? Well i don't see it and the Lore doesn't confirm it.

Not as you would like me to believe with three comments, one of which didn't actually occur.

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...



You think? Well we will see; Your speculation aside i think the Mining Castes will keep up demand as they have for centuries during Exalted Marches, Blights and many other events before this war.

And that said you still have these faculities being built and maintained for Templars when in some cases they weren't sharing a Tower so far there are only three towers where you have Templars and Mages sharing living space.

Fereldan, Kirkwall and the White Spire in Orlais.

However in Ravain, An isolated Island in the waking sea and several other places you Templars and mages living seperate would in fact mean that you have entire structures devoted solely to mages and thus constructed entirely for them.

And you keep harping on how Lyrium is so expensive, Except that the Templars have fairly deep pockets it comes with being the Order after all. The Chantry controlled the Lyrium trade for centuries and the Templars have their own connections as DAO and DA2 proved that go through their own connections.

So even if the Chantry access was cut off although i doubt it will be you still have them having access to it.

And really? The Resources to build enchantments, Staves and all these other magical tools came from the chantry, You have a massive list that go beyond the circles, importing mages and even Lyrium.

The Templars occasionally need arms and armor but their only true constant expense is Lyrium and the Dwarves aren't exactly hurting for that rock.

1. The templar don't have deep pocket. The chantry does. The templard get there money form the chantry. The templars are no longer withthe chantry....No chantry...no deep pockets.
2.With Lyrium is not a issue of production. It an issue of pricing. Dwareves are mechants and have no care of ether side. They are out to get as much money as they can get. With both sides having hight demand of lyrium, templers with the most demand, the dwarve with incress the price to get as much money they can get. This happens in every war. The most need resource will go up  in price.

3.Those Resources to build enchantments, Staves and all these other magical tools are no where near as expesive and mantaining a templar. A mage can go with out them and be devistating. Added, the chantry still want to get the ages on there side and many nations can see the benifit of having and army of mages.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 15 septembre 2013 - 05:03 .

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...




Hawke ask him why he does not just kick the templars out Alistars says "Easier said then done." at 2:58

He also say" Apparently I don't feel the same way the chantry does." with the issue of mages at 2:29.

Also, in DA:O Alistar made it a point that he hated being a templer. In da2 he makes it clear he is pro mage.

Your basing his National political policy on two comments to a foreign Nation in a Chantry ran citadel? Alrightie then but let prove you wrong just to feel better.

His entire conversation tree in DAO 

That situation you mentioned where he "hated" being a Templar apparently doesn't show it self.

www.youtube.com/watch

So either you were incorrect or it was an assumption.

And again that could mean several things; Such as the Political situation that would cause could be worse then a blight.

So i really don't see anything to paint him as pro Mage, but he does seem to find certain things about being a Templar and his time there enjoyable and considering he showed no disrepect to several templars encountered and even spoke respectfully to one (The Knight Commander) You have him showing little to no ill will to the chantry or templars themselves.

So him being pro mage? Well i don't see it and the Lore doesn't confirm it.

Not as you would like me to believe with three comments, one of which didn't actually occur.

It's two very blunt and clear statement.  Alistar makes it clear he is pro mage. Added if it is an issue of politic then with teh magetemplar war he will not have that issue. The problem is it the kick the templars out they fact having a march ordered on them. No that the chantry is divided that is not possible. He can now do so with no actions put ageints him.
The fact he says he does not share the same feelings of mages as the chantry and bump head with them makes it clear he is pro mage.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 15 septembre 2013 - 05:08 .

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...



You think? Well we will see; Your speculation aside i think the Mining Castes will keep up demand as they have for centuries during Exalted Marches, Blights and many other events before this war.

And that said you still have these faculities being built and maintained for Templars when in some cases they weren't sharing a Tower so far there are only three towers where you have Templars and Mages sharing living space.

Fereldan, Kirkwall and the White Spire in Orlais.

However in Ravain, An isolated Island in the waking sea and several other places you Templars and mages living seperate would in fact mean that you have entire structures devoted solely to mages and thus constructed entirely for them.

And you keep harping on how Lyrium is so expensive, Except that the Templars have fairly deep pockets it comes with being the Order after all. The Chantry controlled the Lyrium trade for centuries and the Templars have their own connections as DAO and DA2 proved that go through their own connections.

So even if the Chantry access was cut off although i doubt it will be you still have them having access to it.

And really? The Resources to build enchantments, Staves and all these other magical tools came from the chantry, You have a massive list that go beyond the circles, importing mages and even Lyrium.

The Templars occasionally need arms and armor but their only true constant expense is Lyrium and the Dwarves aren't exactly hurting for that rock.

1. The templar don't have deep pocket. The chantry does. The templard get there money form the chantry. The templars are no longer withthe chantry....No chantry...no deep pockets.
2.With Lyrium is not a issue of production. It an issue of pricing. Dwareves are mechants and have no care of ether side. They are out to get as much money as they can get. With both sides having hight demand of lyrium, templers with the most demand, the dwarve with incress the price to get as much money they can get. This happens in every war. The most need resource will go up  in price.

3.Those Resources to build enchantments, Staves and all these other magical tools are no where near as expesive and mantaining a templar. A mage can go with out them and be devistating. Added, the chantry still want to get the ages on there side and many nations can see the benifit of having and army of mages.

Your assuming again you really should stop that, Lyium products, Potions and Raw Ore are all purchased by both parties, The thing of it is however that Templars DO not need the more expensive raw Ore, Lyrium potions as show by DAO are good enough apparently.

However do need Raw Ore and refined Lyrium to work echantments  as shown by DA Awakening. and produce staves, wands and other magical items. So you have the Templars requiring in essence the cheapest version fo the Dwarve products while the Mages need the high shelf stuff.

And as you said the Mages don't have Deep pockets with out the chantry, it seems they likely would have to stoop to bandity just to afford money for their weapons.

So all the Templars really need to do is use their own connections which as both games have shown they already have and they have the means to pay for with out the chantry. They were getting them off Lyrium smugglers after all.

Also that isn't how Iproperly managed price nflation works, If the Market crashes due to price inflation the dwarves still lose out,  No if they increased the price it would be a gradual and slow thing but unforunately seeing as how now the Templars wouldn't be getting the stuff through chantry channels they likely wouldn't see that price rise.

That said if they still are recieving it on the regional level through their own Chantry resources who knows.

That said once again what was presented in game disproves your point.

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...




Hawke ask him why he does not just kick the templars out Alistars says "Easier said then done." at 2:58

He also say" Apparently I don't feel the same way the chantry does." with the issue of mages at 2:29.

Also, in DA:O Alistar made it a point that he hated being a templer. In da2 he makes it clear he is pro mage.

Your basing his National political policy on two comments to a foreign Nation in a Chantry ran citadel? Alrightie then but let prove you wrong just to feel better.

His entire conversation tree in DAO 

That situation you mentioned where he "hated" being a Templar apparently doesn't show it self.

www.youtube.com/watch

So either you were incorrect or it was an assumption.

And again that could mean several things; Such as the Political situation that would cause could be worse then a blight.

So i really don't see anything to paint him as pro Mage, but he does seem to find certain things about being a Templar and his time there enjoyable and considering he showed no disrepect to several templars encountered and even spoke respectfully to one (The Knight Commander) You have him showing little to no ill will to the chantry or templars themselves.

So him being pro mage? Well i don't see it and the Lore doesn't confirm it.

Not as you would like me to believe with three comments, one of which didn't actually occur.

It's two very blunt and clear statement.  Alistar makes it clear he is pro mage. Added if it is an issue of politic then with teh magetemplar war he will not have that issue. The problem is it the kick the templars out they fact having a march ordered on them. No that the chantry is divided that is not possible. He can now do so with no actions put ageints him.
The fact he says he does not share the same feelings of mages as the chantry and bump head with them makes it clear he is pro mage.

No not really, Its not blunt and its not clear.

Kings are generally VERY clear in their intent, even the Powerless Viscount was clear in his intent. Alistair danced around his words here and you expect me to believe it to be a declaration of war against the Templars whom apparently he really doesn't mind according to the video i watched.

And you apparently are forgetting the Seekers who wandering about, I doubt Alistair would risk assasination over  a war that isn't his business, So while yes the Chantry may ignore the Templars may not. And your stating a situation that hasn't occured.

The Templars haven't stated anywhere that they would march on Fereldan and that is exactly the point, he is rebuilding a kingdom from blight and preparing for an invasion from Orlais.

I doubt he would offer the Mages support.

You can believe this delusion tripe if you want but i do not.

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...



You think? Well we will see; Your speculation aside i think the Mining Castes will keep up demand as they have for centuries during Exalted Marches, Blights and many other events before this war.

And that said you still have these faculities being built and maintained for Templars when in some cases they weren't sharing a Tower so far there are only three towers where you have Templars and Mages sharing living space.

Fereldan, Kirkwall and the White Spire in Orlais.

However in Ravain, An isolated Island in the waking sea and several other places you Templars and mages living seperate would in fact mean that you have entire structures devoted solely to mages and thus constructed entirely for them.

And you keep harping on how Lyrium is so expensive, Except that the Templars have fairly deep pockets it comes with being the Order after all. The Chantry controlled the Lyrium trade for centuries and the Templars have their own connections as DAO and DA2 proved that go through their own connections.

So even if the Chantry access was cut off although i doubt it will be you still have them having access to it.

And really? The Resources to build enchantments, Staves and all these other magical tools came from the chantry, You have a massive list that go beyond the circles, importing mages and even Lyrium.

The Templars occasionally need arms and armor but their only true constant expense is Lyrium and the Dwarves aren't exactly hurting for that rock.

1. The templar don't have deep pocket. The chantry does. The templard get there money form the chantry. The templars are no longer withthe chantry....No chantry...no deep pockets.
2.With Lyrium is not a issue of production. It an issue of pricing. Dwareves are mechants and have no care of ether side. They are out to get as much money as they can get. With both sides having hight demand of lyrium, templers with the most demand, the dwarve with incress the price to get as much money they can get. This happens in every war. The most need resource will go up  in price.

3.Those Resources to build enchantments, Staves and all these other magical tools are no where near as expesive and mantaining a templar. A mage can go with out them and be devistating. Added, the chantry still want to get the ages on there side and many nations can see the benifit of having and army of mages.

Your assuming again you really should stop that, Lyium products, Potions and Raw Ore are all purchased by both parties, The thing of it is however that Templars DO not need the more expensive raw Ore, Lyrium potions as show by DAO are good enough apparently.

However do need Raw Ore and refined Lyrium to work echantments  as shown by DA Awakening. and produce staves, wands and other magical items. So you have the Templars requiring in essence the cheapest version fo the Dwarve products while the Mages need the high shelf stuff.

And as you said the Mages don't have Deep pockets with out the chantry, it seems they likely would have to stoop to bandity just to afford money for their weapons.

So all the Templars really need to do is use their own connections which as both games have shown they already have and they have the means to pay for with out the chantry. They were getting them off Lyrium smugglers after all.

Also that isn't how Iproperly managed price nflation works, If the Market crashes due to price inflation the dwarves still lose out,  No if they increased the price it would be a gradual and slow thing but unforunately seeing as how now the Templars wouldn't be getting the stuff through chantry channels they likely wouldn't see that price rise.

That said if they still are recieving it on the regional level through their own Chantry resources who knows.

That said once again what was presented in game disproves your point.

"Your assuming again you really should stop that, Lyium products, Potions and Raw Ore are all purchased by both parties, The thing of it is however that Templars DO not need the more expensive raw Ore, Lyrium potions as show by DAO are good enough apparently."

Wow. that was a bad point..... You do know those Lyium potions are made of lyrium ore right?  Saying lyrium potions is not effected by the price of oil is like saying gas is not effected by the price of oil.
Think about it again, One need the other and go in price out of need.If lyruim ore goes up all lyrium porducts go up. Please think before typing.

"And as you said the Mages don't have Deep pockets with out the chantry, it seems they likely would have to stoop to bandity just to afford money for their weapons."
I know that but they are not dependent on an expensive product like the templars. They can get around that issue because they just have a normal persons needs. Templars have a need of an expensive product.

"So all the Templars really need to do is use their own connections which as both games have shown they already have and they have the means to pay for with out the chantry. They were getting them off Lyrium smugglers after all."

And those Lyrium smugglers will also chanrge out of the nose even more then the merchants. The mages can also use the smugglers or kill them off so  the templars won't use them.. Added the pro chantry templars can do the same.

"Also that isn't how Iproperly managed price nflation works, If the Market crashes due to price inflation the dwarves still lose out,  No if they increased the price it would be a gradual and slow thing but unforunately seeing as how now the Templars wouldn't be getting the stuff through chantry channels they likely wouldn't see that price rise."

As long as there is need there will be no crash. That will only happen when all side becaome bankrupt. The issue is that the templar who are not with teh chantry risk banrupty first. There is more sides to this then templar and mage.

"That said if they still are recieving it on the regional level through their own Chantry resources who knows."
 The reginal level does not have the finace of the chantry as a whole. They are vastly limited compared to the main branch.

[TheKomandorShepard]

DarthLaxian wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Mages already lose they don't have any chance templars are better trained and well trained to kill mages , better organized and have more peoples and templars are heroes in societes when most peoples would gladly burn mages for being mages. Now it depends on Inquisitor.

i don't agree with you there, templars on the whole might be trained in combat (and magic-suppression - but that only works at close range!) - but then so are mages, and with them having a save-haven that has walls (Andorahls Reach (spelling?)), i would think that the templars can't get in close (and as far as we know, the templars do not have siege engines - and even if the did, magical-shields would probably make them useless - and being set on fire/frozen/blown appart will destroy them)

and mages have a templar with them (meaning they can learn how to fight them - finding out the max. range of the smite-ability)

so it might be a stalemate (why? - because the templars are more in number, but the mages have the advantage of walls, ranged attacks and other offensive and defensive aids...oh, and the templars need to supply their large camp, with food and lyrium of course (if the mages take out those shipments, then they are in big trouble...even more, as i don't think the templars are financially stable (meaning: they no longer have the chantry to pay for the lyrium with the money the believers give it!) and so they would have to get it some other way (robbing people, directly stealing the lyrium etc.))

greetings LAX

As we see in dawn of seeker templars can bounce mage spell if we can trust this movie , as well meredith was able to turn of qunari magic.And well their sheilds probably block spells as well their armors protect from magic and have resistance. Now we have well-trained warriors who are trained to kill mages with good equipment and are well organized ,outnumber mages and have societes on their side their flaw is lyrium addiction but as i said they are heroes in most communities and many may gladly provide funding for templars to deal with it. On other side what we have on mages side barely trained peoples i would say civilians without any combat experience they in any second can become abomnation and start attack their own peoples even first enchanters are weak as hell and were crushed by templars and are hated their only advantage is fortress no chance for them.   

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...



You think? Well we will see; Your speculation aside i think the Mining Castes will keep up demand as they have for centuries during Exalted Marches, Blights and many other events before this war.

And that said you still have these faculities being built and maintained for Templars when in some cases they weren't sharing a Tower so far there are only three towers where you have Templars and Mages sharing living space.

Fereldan, Kirkwall and the White Spire in Orlais.

However in Ravain, An isolated Island in the waking sea and several other places you Templars and mages living seperate would in fact mean that you have entire structures devoted solely to mages and thus constructed entirely for them.

And you keep harping on how Lyrium is so expensive, Except that the Templars have fairly deep pockets it comes with being the Order after all. The Chantry controlled the Lyrium trade for centuries and the Templars have their own connections as DAO and DA2 proved that go through their own connections.

So even if the Chantry access was cut off although i doubt it will be you still have them having access to it.

And really? The Resources to build enchantments, Staves and all these other magical tools came from the chantry, You have a massive list that go beyond the circles, importing mages and even Lyrium.

The Templars occasionally need arms and armor but their only true constant expense is Lyrium and the Dwarves aren't exactly hurting for that rock.

1. The templar don't have deep pocket. The chantry does. The templard get there money form the chantry. The templars are no longer withthe chantry....No chantry...no deep pockets.
2.With Lyrium is not a issue of production. It an issue of pricing. Dwareves are mechants and have no care of ether side. They are out to get as much money as they can get. With both sides having hight demand of lyrium, templers with the most demand, the dwarve with incress the price to get as much money they can get. This happens in every war. The most need resource will go up  in price.

3.Those Resources to build enchantments, Staves and all these other magical tools are no where near as expesive and mantaining a templar. A mage can go with out them and be devistating. Added, the chantry still want to get the ages on there side and many nations can see the benifit of having and army of mages.

Your assuming again you really should stop that, Lyium products, Potions and Raw Ore are all purchased by both parties, The thing of it is however that Templars DO not need the more expensive raw Ore, Lyrium potions as show by DAO are good enough apparently.

However do need Raw Ore and refined Lyrium to work echantments  as shown by DA Awakening. and produce staves, wands and other magical items. So you have the Templars requiring in essence the cheapest version fo the Dwarve products while the Mages need the high shelf stuff.

And as you said the Mages don't have Deep pockets with out the chantry, it seems they likely would have to stoop to bandity just to afford money for their weapons.

So all the Templars really need to do is use their own connections which as both games have shown they already have and they have the means to pay for with out the chantry. They were getting them off Lyrium smugglers after all.

Also that isn't how Iproperly managed price nflation works, If the Market crashes due to price inflation the dwarves still lose out,  No if they increased the price it would be a gradual and slow thing but unforunately seeing as how now the Templars wouldn't be getting the stuff through chantry channels they likely wouldn't see that price rise.

That said if they still are recieving it on the regional level through their own Chantry resources who knows.

That said once again what was presented in game disproves your point.

"Your assuming again you really should stop that, Lyium products, Potions and Raw Ore are all purchased by both parties, The thing of it is however that Templars DO not need the more expensive raw Ore, Lyrium potions as show by DAO are good enough apparently."

Wow. that was a bad point..... You do know those Lyium potions are made of lyrium ore right?  Saying lyrium potions is not effected by the price of oil is like saying gas is not effected by the price of oil.
Think about it again, One need the other and go in price out of need.If lyruim ore goes up all lyrium porducts go up. Please think before typing.

"And as you said the Mages don't have Deep pockets with out the chantry, it seems they likely would have to stoop to bandity just to afford money for their weapons."
I know that but they are not dependent on an expensive product like the templars. They can get around that issue because they just have a normal persons needs. Templars have a need of an expensive product.

"So all the Templars really need to do is use their own connections which as both games have shown they already have and they have the means to pay for with out the chantry. They were getting them off Lyrium smugglers after all."

And those Lyrium smugglers will also chanrge out of the nose even more then the merchants. The mages can also use the smugglers or kill them off so  the templars won't use them.. Added the pro chantry templars can do the same.

"Also that isn't how Iproperly managed price nflation works, If the Market crashes due to price inflation the dwarves still lose out,  No if they increased the price it would be a gradual and slow thing but unforunately seeing as how now the Templars wouldn't be getting the stuff through chantry channels they likely wouldn't see that price rise."

As long as there is need there will be no crash. That will only happen when all side becaome bankrupt. The issue is that the templar who are not with teh chantry risk banrupty first. There is more sides to this then templar and mage.

"That said if they still are recieving it on the regional level through their own Chantry resources who knows."
 The reginal level does not have the finace of the chantry as a whole. They are vastly limited compared to the main branch.

Its not a bad point if you know literally anything about Lyrium mining.

So again i would say you should read some of the Lore and Game information but dismissing a point; its quite rude.

Lyrium potions are made by Dust, Not straight Ore.

Its a naturally dust like state of the Magical component, Its almost like sand but not as fine if you understand. You would likely know all this if you bothered with Awakening.

Dust is found in random pockets all across the Deep Roads and even above it occasionally you don't even need to blast usually to find it not like when you dig for Ore which in DAO proved to both a dangerous and long task via the Cross Cut Drifts mining company that was killed protecting Orzamar by collapsing a passage on darkspawn while they were chasing down a Vein.

And how would they get around with out using the tools of magic? A Mage with a Sword is a mage with their capabilities basically cut in half. They can still use Spells but they aren't anywhere near as powerful with out a stave as a focus.

And you think those Smugglers would risk upsetting their Major customer? Oh no, no you kiss ass to keep the Templars and thank the Maker you got lucky enough to find a steady customer for Bulk Lyrium Dust outside the Circle.

The stuff is basically worthless before its refined into a potion, its VERY common.

The Templars literally don't need much to stay active indefinately.