182 réponses à ce sujet

[The Hierophant]

Angrywolves wrote...

Mages.
I expect even neutrals will turn anti Templar because of the Red Templars.

This. Considering how the genereal public viewed mages the RTs inclusion seems to be soley geared towards making the Temps villains.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The Hierophant wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Mages.
I expect even neutrals will turn anti Templar because of the Red Templars.

This. Considering how the genereal public viewed mages the RTs inclusion seems to be soley geared towards making the Temps villains.

yeah i see how mages will get more support than them when they are ticking bombs .

[Deebo305]

Big giant rips in reality spitting out demons and dragons....my money is on Templars, non Red Templars anyway

[The Hierophant]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Mages.
I expect even neutrals will turn anti Templar because of the Red Templars.

This. Considering how the genereal public viewed mages the RTs inclusion seems to be soley geared towards making the Temps villains.

yeah i see how mages will get more support than them when they are ticking bombs .

Nah it's that the negative public opinion on mages is vastly disproportionate versus the negative opinion on Templars. The Templars being juiced up on Red Lyrium seems like an attempt by the writers to reverse the opinion as who would want to support frothing at the mouth roid rage psychos who destroy everything in their path.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 15 septembre 2013 - 05:49 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

The Hierophant wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Mages.
I expect even neutrals will turn anti Templar because of the Red Templars.

This. Considering how the genereal public viewed mages the RTs inclusion seems to be soley geared towards making the Temps villains.

yeah i see how mages will get more support than them when they are ticking bombs .

Nah it's that the negative public opinion on mages is vastly disproportionate versus the negative opinion on Templars. The Templars being juiced up on Red Lyrium seems like an attempt by the writers to reverse the opinion as who would want to support frothing at the mouth roid rage psychos who destroy everything in their path.

Doesn't matter not all templars are red templars i can bet that is minority when mages are already hated by communities and well every mage can in any moment turn into abomnation add to that terrorists and blood mages what is condemned already by society and templars are heroes in society well poor chance that someone will support mages.

[Melca36]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Templars obviously.

Nearly all free mages have resorted to blood magic and have done more harm than what a templar suffering from lyrium withdrawal has, which is what The Chantry will be blamed for. If anything, I think the people will support the templars against The Chantry and mages.

We'll see.

Um..I wouldnt be too sure of that. ALot of people rely on mages for healing. Mages got support from the refugees in the beginning of DA2

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...



You think? Well we will see; Your speculation aside i think the Mining Castes will keep up demand as they have for centuries during Exalted Marches, Blights and many other events before this war.

And that said you still have these faculities being built and maintained for Templars when in some cases they weren't sharing a Tower so far there are only three towers where you have Templars and Mages sharing living space.

Fereldan, Kirkwall and the White Spire in Orlais.

However in Ravain, An isolated Island in the waking sea and several other places you Templars and mages living seperate would in fact mean that you have entire structures devoted solely to mages and thus constructed entirely for them.

And you keep harping on how Lyrium is so expensive, Except that the Templars have fairly deep pockets it comes with being the Order after all. The Chantry controlled the Lyrium trade for centuries and the Templars have their own connections as DAO and DA2 proved that go through their own connections.

So even if the Chantry access was cut off although i doubt it will be you still have them having access to it.

And really? The Resources to build enchantments, Staves and all these other magical tools came from the chantry, You have a massive list that go beyond the circles, importing mages and even Lyrium.

The Templars occasionally need arms and armor but their only true constant expense is Lyrium and the Dwarves aren't exactly hurting for that rock.

1. The templar don't have deep pocket. The chantry does. The templard get there money form the chantry. The templars are no longer withthe chantry....No chantry...no deep pockets.
2.With Lyrium is not a issue of production. It an issue of pricing. Dwareves are mechants and have no care of ether side. They are out to get as much money as they can get. With both sides having hight demand of lyrium, templers with the most demand, the dwarve with incress the price to get as much money they can get. This happens in every war. The most need resource will go up  in price.

3.Those Resources to build enchantments, Staves and all these other magical tools are no where near as expesive and mantaining a templar. A mage can go with out them and be devistating. Added, the chantry still want to get the ages on there side and many nations can see the benifit of having and army of mages.

Your assuming again you really should stop that, Lyium products, Potions and Raw Ore are all purchased by both parties, The thing of it is however that Templars DO not need the more expensive raw Ore, Lyrium potions as show by DAO are good enough apparently.

However do need Raw Ore and refined Lyrium to work echantments  as shown by DA Awakening. and produce staves, wands and other magical items. So you have the Templars requiring in essence the cheapest version fo the Dwarve products while the Mages need the high shelf stuff.

And as you said the Mages don't have Deep pockets with out the chantry, it seems they likely would have to stoop to bandity just to afford money for their weapons.

So all the Templars really need to do is use their own connections which as both games have shown they already have and they have the means to pay for with out the chantry. They were getting them off Lyrium smugglers after all.

Also that isn't how Iproperly managed price nflation works, If the Market crashes due to price inflation the dwarves still lose out,  No if they increased the price it would be a gradual and slow thing but unforunately seeing as how now the Templars wouldn't be getting the stuff through chantry channels they likely wouldn't see that price rise.

That said if they still are recieving it on the regional level through their own Chantry resources who knows.

That said once again what was presented in game disproves your point.

"Your assuming again you really should stop that, Lyium products, Potions and Raw Ore are all purchased by both parties, The thing of it is however that Templars DO not need the more expensive raw Ore, Lyrium potions as show by DAO are good enough apparently."

Wow. that was a bad point..... You do know those Lyium potions are made of lyrium ore right?  Saying lyrium potions is not effected by the price of oil is like saying gas is not effected by the price of oil.
Think about it again, One need the other and go in price out of need.If lyruim ore goes up all lyrium porducts go up. Please think before typing.

"And as you said the Mages don't have Deep pockets with out the chantry, it seems they likely would have to stoop to bandity just to afford money for their weapons."
I know that but they are not dependent on an expensive product like the templars. They can get around that issue because they just have a normal persons needs. Templars have a need of an expensive product.

"So all the Templars really need to do is use their own connections which as both games have shown they already have and they have the means to pay for with out the chantry. They were getting them off Lyrium smugglers after all."

And those Lyrium smugglers will also chanrge out of the nose even more then the merchants. The mages can also use the smugglers or kill them off so  the templars won't use them.. Added the pro chantry templars can do the same.

"Also that isn't how Iproperly managed price nflation works, If the Market crashes due to price inflation the dwarves still lose out,  No if they increased the price it would be a gradual and slow thing but unforunately seeing as how now the Templars wouldn't be getting the stuff through chantry channels they likely wouldn't see that price rise."

As long as there is need there will be no crash. That will only happen when all side becaome bankrupt. The issue is that the templar who are not with teh chantry risk banrupty first. There is more sides to this then templar and mage.

"That said if they still are recieving it on the regional level through their own Chantry resources who knows."
 The reginal level does not have the finace of the chantry as a whole. They are vastly limited compared to the main branch.

Its not a bad point if you know literally anything about Lyrium mining.

So again i would say you should read some of the Lore and Game information but dismissing a point; its quite rude.

Lyrium potions are made by Dust, Not straight Ore.

Its a naturally dust like state of the Magical component, Its almost like sand but not as fine if you understand. You would likely know all this if you bothered with Awakening.

Dust is found in random pockets all across the Deep Roads and even above it occasionally you don't even need to blast usually to find it not like when you dig for Ore which in DAO proved to both a dangerous and long task via the Cross Cut Drifts mining company that was killed protecting Orzamar by collapsing a passage on darkspawn while they were chasing down a Vein.

And how would they get around with out using the tools of magic? A Mage with a Sword is a mage with their capabilities basically cut in half. They can still use Spells but they aren't anywhere near as powerful with out a stave as a focus.

And you think those Smugglers would risk upsetting their Major customer? Oh no, no you kiss ass to keep the Templars and thank the Maker you got lucky enough to find a steady customer for Bulk Lyrium Dust outside the Circle.

The stuff is basically worthless before its refined into a potion, its VERY common.

The Templars literally don't need much to stay active indefinately.

1"Its not a bad point if you know literally anything about Lyrium mining.

So again i would say you should read some of the Lore and Game information but dismissing a point; its quite rude.

Lyrium potions are made by Dust, Not straight Ore."

Lyrium dust is made of lyrium ore, They are the same thing but indifferent qualitities. Anf for the lst time the issue is not mining and production. The issue is finace and need. It not "there is a limited supply and the price goes up" It's "a war is going on and both sides need it, we can make a killing rasing the price." That what will drive the price up. the need of lyruim not the supply of lyrium.

"And how would they get around with out using the tools of magic? A Mage with a Sword is a mage with their capabilities basically cut in half. They can still use Spells but they aren't anywhere near as powerful with out a stave as a focus."

You don't need a staff to focus. Staff is just a way to consistany attack. And some are just made of burn oak. If dark spawn and Flemeth and morrigan can have them with out mining lyruim, so can mages.



"And you think those Smugglers would risk upsetting their Major customer? "
Of course they will . They are already risking chantry law way before the war and the renagade templars need them. They will not risk harming them no matter which side they supply.

"The Templars literally don't need much to stay active indefinately."
Yes they do.
http://dragonage.wik...Use_and_effects
-Lyrium is used by the Chantry to control the templars: templars are given lyrium to "develop their talents" (thoughAlistair seems to doubt whether it actually has any real effect), which also leaves them addicted and thus within the control of the Chantry, which controls the lyrium trade.-

Dust is found in random pockets all across the Deep Roads and even above it occasionally you don't even need to blast usually to find it not like when you dig for Ore which in DAO proved to both a dangerous and long task via the Cross Cut Drifts mining company that was killed protecting Orzamar by collapsing a passage on darkspawn while they were chasing down a Vein.

Your confusing lyruim sand with dust and in the end they are the same thing but in differnet qualities.

[Melca36]

The game is not going to be just about Mage VS Templar. Thats only part of the story.

Im sure at the end.....there will be a compromise on both sides.

[Wulfram]

Mages would likely initially get support mostly from relatives and friends, so a lot would depend on who those were in every Kingdom. Templars would get support from people who are being troubled by Mages, whether crazy or just desperate. Most people would just want to be left alone - if a Mage keeps his head down they might look the other way for the sake of peace, but if he starts looking like he'll be trouble then they'll send word to the Templars.  If anarchy spreads then Templars might start to benefit from people who see them as a source of order.  But if a Templar garrison is living off the land too much, then they might look to some mages to dislodge those guys.

More complicatedly, Templar/Mage conflicts are liable to get intertwined to with more local disputes. If you need some muscle to fight your neighbours, then you could offer support to one side, which will naturally result in the other side coming in to help your opponents.

Modifié par Wulfram, 15 septembre 2013 - 06:03 .

[cjones91]

@Hierophant The templars will be suffering from withdrawal and anyone who knew drug addicst will tell you they can and will loot houses to get money for their fix.I also suspect the mages will start providing magical and healing services to help support their army/buy supplies so their reputation will improve somewhat.

[The Hierophant]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Mages.
I expect even neutrals will turn anti Templar because of the Red Templars.

This. Considering how the genereal public viewed mages the RTs inclusion seems to be soley geared towards making the Temps villains.

yeah i see how mages will get more support than them when they are ticking bombs .

Nah it's that the negative public opinion on mages is vastly disproportionate versus the negative opinion on Templars. The Templars being juiced up on Red Lyrium seems like an attempt by the writers to reverse the opinion as who would want to support frothing at the mouth roid rage psychos who destroy everything in their path.

Doesn't matter not all templars are red templars i can bet that is minority when mages are already hated by communities and well every mage can in any moment turn into abomnation add to that terrorists and blood mages what is condemned already by society and templars are heroes in society well poor chance that someone will support mages.

Don't get me wrong i know about the dangers of mages and their negative public opinion, but there's only two factions of Templars/Seekers. The Chantry loyal and Lambert's group who are in direct conflict with the CoM. Either the RT will be a splinter group of Lambert's faction or comprise his whole faction.

Without the RTs running around acting foolish public support should majorly be towards the Templars, despite their departure from the Chantry. ( only speculation)

[Kalas Magnus]

templars.

All they need to do is remind people about tevinter.
Even if they do seem like drug addicts they are the only ones capable of dealing with the mages. Anyone else would be burned to ash.

[The Elder King]

Depends on the options the game provides, and how mages and templars will act, and what their goals are.
My first will not be involved directly,  since he's a dalish mage that will wary of both templars and mages.

Modifié par hhh89, 15 septembre 2013 - 06:25 .

[The Hierophant]

cjones91 wrote...

@Hierophant The templars will be suffering from withdrawal and anyone who knew drug addicst will tell you they can and will loot houses to get money for their fix.I also suspect the mages will start providing magical and healing services to help support their army/buy supplies so their reputation will improve somewhat.

IIRC the Templars had lyrium smuggling tunnels under the Gallows in Kirkwall. Wouldn't it be logical that every group around Thedas maintained a hidden stockpile for emergencies? Plus we've seen a couple of Templars like some mages who hail from noble families, and could probably muster some financial support. 

If the conflict is only a few months long the possible inclusion of red lyrium seems like a plot device to ensure that public opinion is turned against them.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The Hierophant wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Mages.
I expect even neutrals will turn anti Templar because of the Red Templars.

This. Considering how the genereal public viewed mages the RTs inclusion seems to be soley geared towards making the Temps villains.

yeah i see how mages will get more support than them when they are ticking bombs .

Nah it's that the negative public opinion on mages is vastly disproportionate versus the negative opinion on Templars. The Templars being juiced up on Red Lyrium seems like an attempt by the writers to reverse the opinion as who would want to support frothing at the mouth roid rage psychos who destroy everything in their path.

Doesn't matter not all templars are red templars i can bet that is minority when mages are already hated by communities and well every mage can in any moment turn into abomnation add to that terrorists and blood mages what is condemned already by society and templars are heroes in society well poor chance that someone will support mages.

Don't get me wrong i know about the dangers of mages and their negative public opinion, but there's only two factions of Templars/Seekers. The Chantry loyal and Lambert's group who are in direct conflict with the CoM. Either the RT will be a splinter group of Lambert's faction or comprise his whole faction.

Without the RTs running around acting foolish public support should majorly be towards the Templars, despite their departure from the Chantry. ( only speculation)

Yeah but even if templars will get bad reputation it will be nothing comparing to mages reputation in this conflict reputation of templars will always be greater than mages unless that our inquisitor somehow will change that.

[Master Warder Z_]

cjones91 wrote...

@Hierophant The templars will be suffering from withdrawal and anyone who knew drug addicst will tell you they can and will loot houses to get money for their fix.I also suspect the mages will start providing magical and healing services to help support their army/buy supplies so their reputation will improve somewhat.

Until Lyrium sand and its other more potion related products stops becoming more common then dirt in the Deep Roads and Tunnels systems of the Dwarves i think the Templars will be set.

They have non chantry supply routes, Their own Alchemists for brewing and their Lyrium isn't overly expensive.

(You could purchase lyrium powder for coppers in DAO)

I don't think you need to worry much about the Templars junking out on the good people of Thedas regardless of how long the conflict dragged on.

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...



You think? Well we will see; Your speculation aside i think the Mining Castes will keep up demand as they have for centuries during Exalted Marches, Blights and many other events before this war.

And that said you still have these faculities being built and maintained for Templars when in some cases they weren't sharing a Tower so far there are only three towers where you have Templars and Mages sharing living space.

Fereldan, Kirkwall and the White Spire in Orlais.

However in Ravain, An isolated Island in the waking sea and several other places you Templars and mages living seperate would in fact mean that you have entire structures devoted solely to mages and thus constructed entirely for them.

And you keep harping on how Lyrium is so expensive, Except that the Templars have fairly deep pockets it comes with being the Order after all. The Chantry controlled the Lyrium trade for centuries and the Templars have their own connections as DAO and DA2 proved that go through their own connections.

So even if the Chantry access was cut off although i doubt it will be you still have them having access to it.

And really? The Resources to build enchantments, Staves and all these other magical tools came from the chantry, You have a massive list that go beyond the circles, importing mages and even Lyrium.

The Templars occasionally need arms and armor but their only true constant expense is Lyrium and the Dwarves aren't exactly hurting for that rock.

1. The templar don't have deep pocket. The chantry does. The templard get there money form the chantry. The templars are no longer withthe chantry....No chantry...no deep pockets.
2.With Lyrium is not a issue of production. It an issue of pricing. Dwareves are mechants and have no care of ether side. They are out to get as much money as they can get. With both sides having hight demand of lyrium, templers with the most demand, the dwarve with incress the price to get as much money they can get. This happens in every war. The most need resource will go up  in price.

3.Those Resources to build enchantments, Staves and all these other magical tools are no where near as expesive and mantaining a templar. A mage can go with out them and be devistating. Added, the chantry still want to get the ages on there side and many nations can see the benifit of having and army of mages.

Your assuming again you really should stop that, Lyium products, Potions and Raw Ore are all purchased by both parties, The thing of it is however that Templars DO not need the more expensive raw Ore, Lyrium potions as show by DAO are good enough apparently.

However do need Raw Ore and refined Lyrium to work echantments  as shown by DA Awakening. and produce staves, wands and other magical items. So you have the Templars requiring in essence the cheapest version fo the Dwarve products while the Mages need the high shelf stuff.

And as you said the Mages don't have Deep pockets with out the chantry, it seems they likely would have to stoop to bandity just to afford money for their weapons.

So all the Templars really need to do is use their own connections which as both games have shown they already have and they have the means to pay for with out the chantry. They were getting them off Lyrium smugglers after all.

Also that isn't how Iproperly managed price nflation works, If the Market crashes due to price inflation the dwarves still lose out,  No if they increased the price it would be a gradual and slow thing but unforunately seeing as how now the Templars wouldn't be getting the stuff through chantry channels they likely wouldn't see that price rise.

That said if they still are recieving it on the regional level through their own Chantry resources who knows.

That said once again what was presented in game disproves your point.

"Your assuming again you really should stop that, Lyium products, Potions and Raw Ore are all purchased by both parties, The thing of it is however that Templars DO not need the more expensive raw Ore, Lyrium potions as show by DAO are good enough apparently."

Wow. that was a bad point..... You do know those Lyium potions are made of lyrium ore right?  Saying lyrium potions is not effected by the price of oil is like saying gas is not effected by the price of oil.
Think about it again, One need the other and go in price out of need.If lyruim ore goes up all lyrium porducts go up. Please think before typing.

"And as you said the Mages don't have Deep pockets with out the chantry, it seems they likely would have to stoop to bandity just to afford money for their weapons."
I know that but they are not dependent on an expensive product like the templars. They can get around that issue because they just have a normal persons needs. Templars have a need of an expensive product.

"So all the Templars really need to do is use their own connections which as both games have shown they already have and they have the means to pay for with out the chantry. They were getting them off Lyrium smugglers after all."

And those Lyrium smugglers will also chanrge out of the nose even more then the merchants. The mages can also use the smugglers or kill them off so  the templars won't use them.. Added the pro chantry templars can do the same.

"Also that isn't how Iproperly managed price nflation works, If the Market crashes due to price inflation the dwarves still lose out,  No if they increased the price it would be a gradual and slow thing but unforunately seeing as how now the Templars wouldn't be getting the stuff through chantry channels they likely wouldn't see that price rise."

As long as there is need there will be no crash. That will only happen when all side becaome bankrupt. The issue is that the templar who are not with teh chantry risk banrupty first. There is more sides to this then templar and mage.

"That said if they still are recieving it on the regional level through their own Chantry resources who knows."
 The reginal level does not have the finace of the chantry as a whole. They are vastly limited compared to the main branch.

Its not a bad point if you know literally anything about Lyrium mining.

So again i would say you should read some of the Lore and Game information but dismissing a point; its quite rude.

Lyrium potions are made by Dust, Not straight Ore.

Its a naturally dust like state of the Magical component, Its almost like sand but not as fine if you understand. You would likely know all this if you bothered with Awakening.

Dust is found in random pockets all across the Deep Roads and even above it occasionally you don't even need to blast usually to find it not like when you dig for Ore which in DAO proved to both a dangerous and long task via the Cross Cut Drifts mining company that was killed protecting Orzamar by collapsing a passage on darkspawn while they were chasing down a Vein.

And how would they get around with out using the tools of magic? A Mage with a Sword is a mage with their capabilities basically cut in half. They can still use Spells but they aren't anywhere near as powerful with out a stave as a focus.

And you think those Smugglers would risk upsetting their Major customer? Oh no, no you kiss ass to keep the Templars and thank the Maker you got lucky enough to find a steady customer for Bulk Lyrium Dust outside the Circle.

The stuff is basically worthless before its refined into a potion, its VERY common.

The Templars literally don't need much to stay active indefinately.

1"Its not a bad point if you know literally anything about Lyrium mining.

So again i would say you should read some of the Lore and Game information but dismissing a point; its quite rude.

Lyrium potions are made by Dust, Not straight Ore."

Lyrium dust is made of lyrium ore, They are the same thing but indifferent qualitities. Anf for the lst time the issue is not mining and production. The issue is finace and need. It not "there is a limited supply and the price goes up" It's "a war is going on and both sides need it, we can make a killing rasing the price." That what will drive the price up. the need of lyruim not the supply of lyrium.

"And how would they get around with out using the tools of magic? A Mage with a Sword is a mage with their capabilities basically cut in half. They can still use Spells but they aren't anywhere near as powerful with out a stave as a focus."

You don't need a staff to focus. Staff is just a way to consistany attack. And some are just made of burn oak. If dark spawn and Flemeth and morrigan can have them with out mining lyruim, so can mages.



"And you think those Smugglers would risk upsetting their Major customer? "
Of course they will . They are already risking chantry law way before the war and the renagade templars need them. They will not risk harming them no matter which side they supply.

"The Templars literally don't need much to stay active indefinately."
Yes they do.
http://dragonage.wik...Use_and_effects
-[color=rgb(213, 212, 212)">Lyrium is used by the ] to control the [/color]templars: templars are given lyrium to "develop their talents" (thoughAlistair seems to doubt whether it actually has any real effect), which also leaves them addicted and thus within the control of the Chantry, which controls the lyrium trade.-

Dust is found in random pockets all across the Deep Roads and even above it occasionally you don't even need to blast usually to find it not like when you dig for Ore which in DAO proved to both a dangerous and long task via the Cross Cut Drifts mining company that was killed protecting Orzamar by collapsing a passage on darkspawn while they were chasing down a Vein.

Your confusing lyruim sand with dust and in the end they are the same thing but in differnet qualities.

So you don't dispute they have access to Lyrium in cheap quanities and enough to supply themselves but you believe their sources who likely realize the Templars are their best source of business would intentionally provoke them for a larger share?

I don't know, the DA2 Lyrium smugglers were pretty content with what the Templars paid them given it was regular and not a bad price. Your selling the equaivalent of Magical dirt, Its not like its going to be pure Lyrium to begin with but that said it doesn't matter.

They have access and a source to it.

They can fight their war for as long as needed in my opinion.

And Alistair can speculate and moan all he wants.

Lyrium was required for Hawke to aquire templar talents in DA2.

That led me to believe there is some crediability to the usage of it.

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...



So you don't dispute they have access to Lyrium in cheap quanities and enough to supply themselves but you believe their sources who likely realize the Templars are their best source of business would intentionally provoke them for a larger share?

I don't know, the DA2 Lyrium smugglers were pretty content with what the Templars paid them given it was regular and not a bad price. Your selling the equaivalent of Magical dirt, Its not like its going to be pure Lyrium to begin with but that said it doesn't matter.

They have access and a source to it.

They can fight their war for as long as needed in my opinion.

And Alistair can speculate and moan all he wants.

Lyrium was required for Hawke to aquire templar talents in DA2.

That led me to believe there is some crediability to the usage of it.

The templars are not the best source of bisness. It the chantry that is. And after that it's the ones with the most money. That is not exclusive to templars. It's a case of the templars needing them no them needing themplars. The lyrium dealers and smugglers have the power not the people buying. The templars and mages are that divide with in themselves. If the smugglers ****** off the templar they can just sell the lyrium to someone else. It's the templars who are the losers in this. It a case that the emplars can't ****** off the smugglers and lyrium sellers.

In da2 the events on had were much different. The buy marked was not divided as it is in THE TEMPLAR MAGE WAR. The need was not as great. Now it is more needed.

The templars can't fight long turm wars with out lyrium. With the need of lyrium and cost of it on hand and the fact the cost will go up in this war, the templars clearly have a problem in long term engagements

And you have not got it yet it had nothing to do with howm much lyrium the dwraves have.... It has to do to th elimit of sellers and the need of lyrium. When something is greatly wanted and need the price goes up. Everytime.

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...



So you don't dispute they have access to Lyrium in cheap quanities and enough to supply themselves but you believe their sources who likely realize the Templars are their best source of business would intentionally provoke them for a larger share?

I don't know, the DA2 Lyrium smugglers were pretty content with what the Templars paid them given it was regular and not a bad price. Your selling the equaivalent of Magical dirt, Its not like its going to be pure Lyrium to begin with but that said it doesn't matter.

They have access and a source to it.

They can fight their war for as long as needed in my opinion.

And Alistair can speculate and moan all he wants.

Lyrium was required for Hawke to aquire templar talents in DA2.

That led me to believe there is some crediability to the usage of it.

The templars are not the best source of bisness. It the chantry that is. And after that it's the ones with the most money. That is not exclusive to templars. It's a case of the templars needing them no them needing themplars. The lyrium dealers and smugglers have the power not the people buying. The templars and mages are that divide with in themselves. If the smugglers ****** off the templar they can just sell the lyrium to someone else. It's the templars who are the losers in this. It a case that the emplars can't ****** off the smugglers and lyrium sellers.

In da2 the events on had were much different. The buy marked was not divided as it is in THE TEMPLAR MAGE WAR. The need was not as great. Now it is more needed.

The templars can't fight long turm wars with out lyrium. With the need of lyrium and cost of it on hand and the fact the cost will go up in this war, the templars clearly have a problem in long term engagements

And you have not got it yet it had nothing to do with howm much lyrium the dwraves have.... It has to do to th elimit of sellers and the need of lyrium. When something is greatly wanted and need the price goes up. Everytime.

So you think the Smuggling rings the Templars created to avoid chantry involvement in the collecting of their Magical Dirt is actually controlled by the Chantry? What sort of Logic is that. Why not get it through Official channels? Deal with the Smithing caste and have it shipped up in bulk, you likely get better quality and far more of it.

No the Templars have their own connections, its why they had smuggling rings bringing it into them.

And the people buying have the Power to cease buying and look elsewhere; I hardly think they are exclusive to one smuggling ring considering you have more then three confirmed groups DA2 doing it. So trying to discount their strength of position doesn't exactly work when they can look elsewhere.

And i would agrue the need has been as constant as the Templars themselves, its not like the usage of Templar abilities requires more of it. They need it to preform but that is only upkeep. So if the Templars were unwilling to pay they likely would either force the issue or look elsehwere.

And considering most of the Lyrium smuggling at least according to the Carta in DAO was done by Castless working for the Smith caste and shipped topside, So yes the smuggling rings do depend upon how much the Dwarves how for their stock given that it all comes from the same place illegal or legitimate.

So you can push and complain about the cost rising but i just don't see it, You can state the Templars cannot afford but when the price is so dirt cheap i would beg to differ. The Mages require the expensive stuff, the Templars can make due with barest of Lyrium stock.

And in the case you provide all the Templars need do is alert the Dwarves of their issue and no doubt they will solve it.

They don't care for infringing upon house claims.

[Silfren]

leaguer of one wrote...

Before taking a side, remember that factions are not just templars vs mages. Each side has factions of there own. Their templars who are pro chantry, anti-chanrty, red Templars, pro mage templers, blood mages, pro chantry mages, revolutionist, and pro-circle.

I agree with this, but despite the fact that in an actual world-spanning conflict there would be a myriad of factions, some more convoluted than others, I question how many the medium of a game can handle before the details and complexity bog it down. 

[Silfren]

Master Warder Z wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

@Hierophant The templars will be suffering from withdrawal and anyone who knew drug addicst will tell you they can and will loot houses to get money for their fix.I also suspect the mages will start providing magical and healing services to help support their army/buy supplies so their reputation will improve somewhat.

Until Lyrium sand and its other more potion related products stops becoming more common then dirt in the Deep Roads and Tunnels systems of the Dwarves i think the Templars will be set.

They have non chantry supply routes, Their own Alchemists for brewing and their Lyrium isn't overly expensive.

(You could purchase lyrium powder for coppers in DAO)

I don't think you need to worry much about the Templars junking out on the good people of Thedas regardless of how long the conflict dragged on.

The price that the PC has to pay for something probably can't be used as a guide for the lore-based value of lyrium.  We have dialogue specifying that very little lyrium actually makes it to the surface; the vast majority of it is kept in Orzammar.  Lyrium is NOT cheap, not by a long shot.

And you seem to be forgetting that there's a war on.  Even without people taking the obvious step of blocking lyrium supply lines, war tends to interrupt supply lines anyway.

[cjones91]

Like I mentioned before the Templar's supplies are pretty limited since they received everything from the Chantry.They are nothing more than a rogue army that is addicted to Lyrium and those two things can lead to problems for the common man/noble.

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...



So you think the Smuggling rings the Templars created to avoid chantry involvement in the collecting of their Magical Dirt is actually controlled by the Chantry? What sort of Logic is that. Why not get it through Official channels? Deal with the Smithing caste and have it shipped up in bulk, you likely get better quality and far more of it.

No the Templars have their own connections, its why they had smuggling rings bringing it into them.

And the people buying have the Power to cease buying and look elsewhere; I hardly think they are exclusive to one smuggling ring considering you have more then three confirmed groups DA2 doing it. So trying to discount their strength of position doesn't exactly work when they can look elsewhere.

And i would agrue the need has been as constant as the Templars themselves, its not like the usage of Templar abilities requires more of it. They need it to preform but that is only upkeep. So if the Templars were unwilling to pay they likely would either force the issue or look elsehwere.

And considering most of the Lyrium smuggling at least according to the Carta in DAO was done by Castless working for the Smith caste and shipped topside, So yes the smuggling rings do depend upon how much the Dwarves how for their stock given that it all comes from the same place illegal or legitimate.

So you can push and complain about the cost rising but i just don't see it, You can state the Templars cannot afford but when the price is so dirt cheap i would beg to differ. The Mages require the expensive stuff, the Templars can make due with barest of Lyrium stock.

And in the case you provide all the Templars need do is alert the Dwarves of their issue and no doubt they will solve it.

They don't care for infringing upon house claims.

No I don't think the smuggling rings are controled by the chantry. It's controled by the need of profit. And the smugglers don't  the templars to get it. There mutiple sides here that will pay out the nose for it. As I said before it's the templars that need the smugglars not the smugglers who need the templars. You can go all over the point on the casteless but your missing one thing...They don't care who buys the lyrium as long as they sell it at top price. Also, you missing the issue here the laws on lyrium was there to control templars. The chantr themselve don't have to fallow those laws. In fact the chantry can pay more to keep the lyrium out of the rogue templar hand then the rogue templars can pay to get it. And Lyrium is not dirt cheap. It's no where near cheap.

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...



So you think the Smuggling rings the Templars created to avoid chantry involvement in the collecting of their Magical Dirt is actually controlled by the Chantry? What sort of Logic is that. Why not get it through Official channels? Deal with the Smithing caste and have it shipped up in bulk, you likely get better quality and far more of it.

No the Templars have their own connections, its why they had smuggling rings bringing it into them.

And the people buying have the Power to cease buying and look elsewhere; I hardly think they are exclusive to one smuggling ring considering you have more then three confirmed groups DA2 doing it. So trying to discount their strength of position doesn't exactly work when they can look elsewhere.

And i would agrue the need has been as constant as the Templars themselves, its not like the usage of Templar abilities requires more of it. They need it to preform but that is only upkeep. So if the Templars were unwilling to pay they likely would either force the issue or look elsehwere.

And considering most of the Lyrium smuggling at least according to the Carta in DAO was done by Castless working for the Smith caste and shipped topside, So yes the smuggling rings do depend upon how much the Dwarves how for their stock given that it all comes from the same place illegal or legitimate.

So you can push and complain about the cost rising but i just don't see it, You can state the Templars cannot afford but when the price is so dirt cheap i would beg to differ. The Mages require the expensive stuff, the Templars can make due with barest of Lyrium stock.

And in the case you provide all the Templars need do is alert the Dwarves of their issue and no doubt they will solve it.

They don't care for infringing upon house claims.

No I don't think the smuggling rings are controled by the chantry. It's controled by the need of profit. And the smugglers don't  the templars to get it. There mutiple sides here that will pay out the nose for it. As I said before it's the templars that need the smugglars not the smugglers who need the templars. You can go all over the point on the casteless but your missing one thing...They don't care who buys the lyrium as long as they sell it at top price. Also, you missing the issue here the laws on lyrium was there to control templars. The chantr themselve don't have to fallow those laws. In fact the chantry can pay more to keep the lyrium out of the rogue templar hand then the rogue templars can pay to get it. And Lyrium is not dirt cheap. It's no where near cheap.

I suppose they could if they were aware of them, With out player assistance though that never came to be so i have a feeling that the smugglers will likely have little time avoiding the offers of the Chantry. And that likely would apply to the Mages as well, unless if they were involved in the ring they likely wouldn't know it existed.

And then you need to factor in all the Templars need to do is reveal their existance find another group to supply them; The Smugglers may be driven by a for profit mindset but that really doesn't matter when you are dealing with people that can destroy you with a piece of vellum.

Apparently you didn't see the prices for it in DAO hrm? The basic crafting components using the material were not overly expensive and you seem to fail to grasp this.

One letter and those Smugglers are destroyed; The Dwarves as i said before will not tolerate castless, the carta or in truth any unathorized excavautions of the very mineral that makes them the majority of their wealth.

Honestly this is just getting dull; You can keep beating the same drum if you wish but i think it a fairly straight forward concept.

The Smugglers supply the Templars in exchange for coin and the Order not revealing their presence to the Dwarves which would result in their deaths faster then you could state grand proving.

Its a decent arrangement and it works in two games; I really cannot see why you think it magically wouldn't in this one.

[Lotion Soronarr]

I'd like to point out it's best NOT to quote hte Wikia on amy things. It's not an offical source, it's a wiki. And as such, copious ammoutns of BS make their way in.

Word of God states that lyrum is necessary for tempalrs, so Allistair is wrong, and the Chantry isn't using it just to control the templars.

IT is also true there wherever therei s profit to be made, there will be a way. Lyrium smugglers will deal with the tempalrs, simply because there's money to be made there. You may say "but the Chantry or someone else may pay more"

1) What makes you think the Chantry will do that? For one, the Templars didn't declare war on the Chantry.
2) If the noble castes deal only with the Chantry, that leaves smugglers a niche to fill. After all, it's far easier to deal where the big fish don't swim - the castless would not be working on the nobles turf.
I doubt the offical and illegal lyrium trade will be targeting the exact same customers anyway. That would make them competition.