What an apt way to describe someone with less skin pigmentation than a native African. I feel so sorry for these "stained" people.Bionuts wrote...
I find very dark skin to be immensely attractive. And very pale skin is repulsive to me. I'm not racist, it's just that I want to create dark skinned characters. Not those stains in Origins.
Inquisition: Will There Be Any Dark Skinned Folk?
Débuté par
Bionuts
, sept. 15 2013 02:02
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#251
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 01:05
Br3admax
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Retour en haut
#252
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 01:10
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Filament wrote...
Except the practical application of colorblindness somehow always seems to be exactly what the article claimed: shut down any discussion about race, legitimate or otherwise. For example, the request for minority representation being met with "I have no problem playing Jade Empire as a white person, y u no colorblind like me?" when it's not the same thing. It may still seem petty in your personal opinion, but it's far from the only situation where colorblindedness is invoked, and I cannot agree with any claim that they are all equally petty. That is just an ugly line of thinking.
Simply treating everyone the same is not the problematic definition of colorblindedness, and is even a noble goal, but I would humbly suggest not using the word "colorblindedness" to describe that, because it's not really accurate. You're not implicitly blind to people's race just by treating them equally, nor are you blind to the very real difference of experience they may have from yourself that leads them to see things differently. Yet the former is what colorblinded people purport to believe, and the latter is what actual "colorblindedness" in practice tends to cause. Simply treating people as you'd like to be treated implies none of that. And ascribing such a label to yourself in the course of any serious discussion about race is only going to arouse suspicion as to your motivations being disingenuous, even if you earnestly believe it's the appropriate term.
I didn't introduce the word. Someone else linked to an article condemning it and I went with their definition.
#253
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 01:11
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LobselVith8 wrote...
Considering how certain groups are marginalized, stereotyped, and perceived, I don't see anything wrong with someone liking who they are.
When that liking who they are has something to do with their race, I'd say there's a problem there.
#254
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 01:13
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Plaintiff wrote...
Bioware are big boys and girls, they can handle a little "pressure". Nobody is bullying them. Furthermore, in their interactions with the forum, they seem like intelligent people, capable of acknowledging that their work has aspects that are problematic or even offensive.
When you put your creative work out there for public consumption, you are going to be criticised, whether that be for your portrayal of homosexuals, your lack of ethnic diversity, or simply a boring plot. Nobody is saying that Bioware is required to do anything, least of all change their fictional world to fit our exact specifications. But by that same token, if you insist on being inflexible, you don't get to complain about being criticised.
The problem is that that actually happens quite a bit. I don't know if you were around for the "Hold the Line" movement, for example.
#255
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 01:14
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In Exile wrote...
Bioware made a traditional fantasy game. And fantasy is weirdly racist in its underlying architecture, by our modern standards. You don't need to go much farther than this business with the fantasy races as an analogy for IRL racism... where the humans are all white and the "non-humans" are supposed to be the analogy for other racial, ethnic or religious groups.
It's worth pointing out that these games all seem to have a form of self-loathing to them too, because humans are almost invariably the ones who've subjugated elves or some such nonsense.
#256
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 01:15
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Silfren wrote...
This is a very good point; I hadn't considered this angle, but it seems painfully obvious, yes. White=human...PoC=...all those icky non-humans.
"All those icky" is not an accurate representation, when those non-humans tend to be the ones who are immortal or have indomitable costitution.
#257
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 01:17
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Foopydoopydoo wrote...
Though even if this was a demand, would it be wrong?
Absolutely. It isn't any of our positions to demand anything from Bioware on their creative product, least of all how we interpret the world's race distribution.
#258
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 01:18
Zkyire
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Br3ad wrote...
What an apt way to describe someone with less skin pigmentation than a native African. I feel so sorry for these "stained" people.Bionuts wrote...
I find very dark skin to be immensely attractive. And very pale skin is repulsive to me. I'm not racist, it's just that I want to create dark skinned characters. Not those stains in Origins.
Those "stains in Origins" look like a fair few North Africans.
TIL you need to have sub-saharan features to be considered a real dark-skinned person.
The more you know?
#259
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 01:19
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David7204 wrote...
Well, Ive noticed black characters in the game tend to have err...how do I put this...white phyiscal traits? By that I mean smooth hair and err....voices you wouldn't generally associate with black woman. At least not where I live in Texas. Traynor has smooth hair. Brooks has smooth hair. Parasini has smooth hair. And of course we have Vivienne voiced by Colleen Clinkenbeard.
Not complaining or anything, since there were all attractive and well done characters.
I already said that. But Traynor wasn't black in the slightest. And I maintain from two years ago that Gianni isn't black either.
Brooks I didn't notice.
#260
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 01:23
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Xilizhra wrote...
Is anyone but me kind of put off by the term "people of color?" Not that it's a big issue or anything, but it sort of implies that white people are "colorless," which would seem to imply either being a raceless default (which I thought the people here wanted to avoid) or somehow inferior and possessed of no worthwhile racial characteristics. Again, not a major issue, but something that's niggled at me.
I find most PC terms offputting.
Edit: Wow, sorry. Didn't mean to dominate the page...
Modifié par EntropicAngel, 16 septembre 2013 - 01:23 .
#262
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 01:27
Br3admax
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The sad truth. Let me go sit in the corner now, looking at my stains and wishing I was real black people.Zkyire wrote...
Br3ad wrote...
What an apt way to describe someone with less skin pigmentation than a native African. I feel so sorry for these "stained" people.Bionuts wrote...
I find very dark skin to be immensely attractive. And very pale skin is repulsive to me. I'm not racist, it's just that I want to create dark skinned characters. Not those stains in Origins.
Those "stains in Origins" look like a fair few North Africans.
TIL you need to have sub-saharan features to be considered a real dark-skinned person.
The more you know?
#263
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 01:28
Plaintiff
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Well I thought it was pretty clear that I was only talking in the context of this thread. I'm not familiar with the specifics of the 'Hold the Line' movement, but I can guess from the reference that it's related to the obnoxious outcry against Mass Effect 3.EntropicAngel wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
Bioware are big boys and girls, they can handle a little "pressure". Nobody is bullying them. Furthermore, in their interactions with the forum, they seem like intelligent people, capable of acknowledging that their work has aspects that are problematic or even offensive.
When you put your creative work out there for public consumption, you are going to be criticised, whether that be for your portrayal of homosexuals, your lack of ethnic diversity, or simply a boring plot. Nobody is saying that Bioware is required to do anything, least of all change their fictional world to fit our exact specifications. But by that same token, if you insist on being inflexible, you don't get to complain about being criticised.
The problem is that that actually happens quite a bit. I don't know if you were around for the "Hold the Line" movement, for example.
#264
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Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 01:33
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Plaintiff wrote...
Well I thought it was pretty clear that I was only talking in the context of this thread. I'm not familiar with the specifics of the 'Hold the Line' movement, but I can guess from the reference that it's related to the obnoxious outcry against Mass Effect 3.
Yes, people were demanding--and actually using that word--a "better" ending.
And let's be honest Plaintiff: it's easy to for people to demand things on social issues too. Regardless of your stance.
#265
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 01:45
Star fury
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Zkyire wrote...
White features are considered more attractive in white-majority countries?
Well I never.
White features are considered more attractive not only in Europe and America. Many people in Asia want to look like white. I consider that to be really stupid.
www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/19/korea.beauty/index.html
Modifié par Star fury, 16 septembre 2013 - 01:46 .
#266
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 02:08
Zkyire
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Star fury wrote...
Zkyire wrote...
White features are considered more attractive in white-majority countries?
Well I never.
White features are considered more attractive not only in Europe and America. Many people in Asia want to look like white. I consider that to be really stupid.
www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/19/korea.beauty/index.html
*by a minority of Asians. And even if they do, so what? People aren't allowed to like what the like?
#267
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 02:32
Bionuts
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Br3ad wrote...
What an apt way to describe someone with less skin pigmentation than a native African. I feel so sorry for these "stained" people.Bionuts wrote...
I find very dark skin to be immensely attractive. And very pale skin is repulsive to me. I'm not racist, it's just that I want to create dark skinned characters. Not those stains in Origins.
I'm talking about skin color in Origins. If you chose a dark skin color, it looked sort of purple.
#268
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 02:40
Cutlass Jack
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Bionuts wrote...
I'm talking about skin color in Origins. If you chose a dark skin color, it looked sort of purple.
This thread is going all sorts of awkward and unecessary directions concerning real world things that have absolutely nothing to do with the game.
Back on point, even the Devs acknowledged the old engine did a terrible job of darker skins. And I remember them posting at least once on how much better the new engine does with it.
So you should be happier. For your main character at the very least.
#269
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 02:44
Beerfish
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Ever notice some of the dumbest starting posts tossed out by the same people over and over end up being very long in length?
Step one, make a foolish opening post that has controversy attached to it, but soft pedal it enough so you know you will get responses.
Step two, revel in the long thread that turns into a foolish argument on the foolish point made in the 1st post.
Step three, dip into the thread just often enough to keep it going and innocently deny any wrong doing.
Three days later do it all over again.
Step one, make a foolish opening post that has controversy attached to it, but soft pedal it enough so you know you will get responses.
Step two, revel in the long thread that turns into a foolish argument on the foolish point made in the 1st post.
Step three, dip into the thread just often enough to keep it going and innocently deny any wrong doing.
Three days later do it all over again.
#270
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 02:45
daveliam
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I think the fact that Vivienne has a lovely and realistic skin color, from what we've seen so far, should be an indicator that the new engine is capable of producing a greatly improved range of realistic pigmentations. Since the engine allowed it with Vivienne, I'm confident that it will be possible for the PC as well.
#271
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 02:48
Ryzaki
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EntropicAngel wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
Bioware are big boys and girls, they can handle a little "pressure". Nobody is bullying them. Furthermore, in their interactions with the forum, they seem like intelligent people, capable of acknowledging that their work has aspects that are problematic or even offensive.
When you put your creative work out there for public consumption, you are going to be criticised, whether that be for your portrayal of homosexuals, your lack of ethnic diversity, or simply a boring plot. Nobody is saying that Bioware is required to do anything, least of all change their fictional world to fit our exact specifications. But by that same token, if you insist on being inflexible, you don't get to complain about being criticised.
The problem is that that actually happens quite a bit. I don't know if you were around for the "Hold the Line" movement, for example.
Hold the Line was the reaction to blatant lies and false advertising. Let's not forget all the BS BW poured prior to ME3's release. And the thread they deleted that pointed it all out.
So yeah this is not the same thing and let's not pretend it is. You don't get to promise someone a cake with chocolate icing, take their money and not complain when they're angry you gave them vanilla.
On topic:
V looks awesome so I'm satisified.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 septembre 2013 - 02:54 .
#272
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 02:54
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Ryzaki wrote...
Hold the Line was the reaction to blatant lies and false advertising. Let's not forget all the BS BW poured prior to ME3's release. And the thread they deleted that pointed it all out.
So yeah this is not the same thing and let's not pretend it is. You don't get to promise someone a cake with chocolate icing, take their money and not complain when they're angry you gave them vanilla.
Hold the Line DEMANDED a better ending to a creative product.
It was wrong. Simply wrong.
This is a similar issue (if people demand it). It's a creative product.
#273
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 02:56
Ryzaki
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EntropicAngel wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
Hold the Line was the reaction to blatant lies and false advertising. Let's not forget all the BS BW poured prior to ME3's release. And the thread they deleted that pointed it all out.
So yeah this is not the same thing and let's not pretend it is. You don't get to promise someone a cake with chocolate icing, take their money and not complain when they're angry you gave them vanilla.
Hold the Line DEMANDED a better ending to a creative product.
It was wrong. Simply wrong.
This is a similar issue (if people demand it). It's a creative product.
It was a creative product that they sold as something else.
You don't get to lie about a product and then get angry that people ask for what you took their money for.
Again. It's a creative product that people paid for. It wasn't free. If it was I'd agree with you. Or if BW had told the truth about the product they were selling I'd agree with you. They didn't. They lied to get people's money. They lied after the game had gone gold and they knew that they were lying. Yes people have a right to demand what BW promised them originally. That's what they thought they were buying.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 septembre 2013 - 02:57 .
#274
Guest_Morocco Mole_*
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 02:57
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My friends, this may well be the dumbest thread yet.
#275
Posté 16 septembre 2013 - 02:59
Daissran
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daveliam wrote...
I think the fact that Vivienne has a lovely and realistic skin color, from what we've seen so far, should be an indicator that the new engine is capable of producing a greatly improved range of realistic pigmentations. Since the engine allowed it with Vivienne, I'm confident that it will be possible for the PC as well.
I agree, I'm really excited about this new engine. I'm glad its a step forward and has more realistic skin pigmentations. Hopefully when the game releases, we'll get to see.
