454 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

fchopin wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Well, the story makes perfect sense. It's one of the most remote areas of the world (Rivain) from Ferelden or Orlais.

The world is not 10 years old and people move about with time.
 
Plus you don't know the story as we have not played the game.

Well if we look at it as a straight ratio, it starts to make more sense.

3 Rivanis that the player would come across in a game would be 3% of the population of there was 100 NPCs. To out that in perspective, ~20% of the US population is African American. Roughly 15% is Hispanic. And 10% are LGBT. These are all very large, populous groups in the U.S., so 3% would be quite a large population ratio for a group to be in one area that is just moving through an area.

We've seen next to no people from the Anderfells besides Anders... if that's where Bioware had Asian-looking people come from, would people be calling them racist and unrealistic for only having only person from that country? Instead, it isn't even considered a big deal. Mostly because Anders is a far away country. 

[Fast Jimmy]

FreshIstay wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

As a point of consideration, I would also be more understanding of more foreigners in cities or other densely populated areas, while in rural villages and remote areas, only seeing natives for the most part. As would be expected. 

Definitely.

More organic. More...enviramentally intuitive, not just gameplay.

Yea, because people who aren't Native' s of the country they live in NEVER live anywhere else but that country!!

OOOOPS, I forgot about white people in North America.

If there is a full scale invasion by the Rivanni over the course of hundreds of years that somehow occurs within the course of the next game, then that is fine. It is something we have seen numerous times in the history of Thedas - humans invaded and took over land from the Elves, the Qunari invaded and took land over from the Vex and the Rivanni, the Darkspawn invaded and took land over from the dwarves. 

That still doesn't mean that the entire country of Rivain is going to migrate tomorrow to visit every other city and nation of the world for DA:I without a solid reason. 

[Fast Jimmy]

Filament wrote...

I don't like this weird quota game we're playing now.

People who make sense to be represented should be represented. Preferably make as many of them make sense as possible. The amount of representation should be enough, not degrading, etc. I don't see the point in micromanaging beyond that.

Sorry. When people say "MORE" without quantifying things, my mind just starts breaking down numbers. Without numbers attached to these types of requests, how could they ever hope to possibly have their demands met? They wouldn't even know themselves if they got there.

[sandalisthemaker]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

As a point of consideration, I would also be more understanding of more foreigners in cities or other densely populated areas, while in rural villages and remote areas, only seeing natives for the most part. As would be expected. 

Definitely.

More organic. More...enviramentally intuitive, not just gameplay.

Yea, because people who aren't Native' s of the country they live in NEVER live anywhere else but that country!!

OOOOPS, I forgot about white people in North America.

If there is a full scale invasion by the Rivanni over the course of hundreds of years that somehow occurs within the course of the next game, then that is fine. It is something we have seen numerous times in the history of Thedas - humans invaded and took over land from the Elves, the Qunari invaded and took land over from the Vex and the Rivanni, the Darkspawn invaded and took land over from the dwarves. 

That still doesn't mean that the entire country of Rivain is going to migrate tomorrow to visit every other city and nation of the world for DA:I without a solid reason. 

So.... what, are you looking for reasons not to have Rivaini NPC's in every city?

[brushyourteeth]

Filament wrote...

I don't like this weird quota game we're playing now.

People who make sense to be represented should be represented. Preferably make as many of them make sense as possible. The amount of representation should be enough, not degrading, etc. I don't see the point in micromanaging beyond that.

I just really wanted to draw attention to this sentence, because I agree.

[Plaintiff]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Don't Darkspawn count as dark skinned?

In DA2, Hurlocks have very pale skin.

[Fast Jimmy]

So.... what, are you looking for reasons not to have Rivaini NPC's in every city?

No. I'm just wondering what number of Rivanni NPCs in a foreign city would make people happy. Would it be the same number as other NPCs from foreign countries? Or should it be demonstrably more?

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 17 septembre 2013 - 01:27 .

[fchopin]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

No. I'm just wondering what number of Rivanni NPCs in a foreign city would make people happy.

More than one...

Modifié par fchopin, 17 septembre 2013 - 01:29 .

[Fast Jimmy]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Filament wrote...

I don't like this weird quota game we're playing now.

People who make sense to be represented should be represented. Preferably make as many of them make sense as possible. The amount of representation should be enough, not degrading, etc. I don't see the point in micromanaging beyond that.

I just really wanted to draw attention to this sentence, because I agree.

And that's what I wanted. The clarification that people want more than the setting would not ally dictate makes sense.  

Again, nothing wrong with that... but when people say "more" without also saying "so many you may even need to consider a plot reason for why there is so many more than the setting would normally dictate," it can wind up win ineffective results. 

[sandalisthemaker]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

No. I'm just wondering what number of Rivanni NPCs in a foreign city would make people happy. Would it be the same number as other NPCs from foreign countries? Or should it be demonstrably more?

Make people happy?  Is this another 'inclusiveness for the sake of inclusiveness' thing that keeps getting thrown around?

They should have some presence.
Humans tend to migrate. It's kind of a thing we do IRL, so why shouldn't it happen in DA?  Especially in large cities like Val Royeux. 

Again, there doesn't have to be a reason given for Rivainis to be where they are.  Because people migrate.

[Plaintiff]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

No. I'm just wondering what number of Rivanni NPCs in a foreign city would make people happy. Would it be the same number as other NPCs from foreign countries? Or should it be demonstrably more?

Well they don't have to be Rivaini. Hubert was a dark-skinned Orlesian, and we can make dark-skinned Ferelden characters in DA:O and DA2. And Antiva has a variety of skin tones too.

I don't really feel comfortable trying to settle on a specific number. It's not like there's some quota of diversity that you can fulfill and say "now we can't possibly be racist".

[daaaav]

sandalisthemaker wrote...



Make people happy?  Is this another 'inclusiveness for the sake of inclusiveness' thing that keeps getting thrown around?

They should have some presence.
Humans tend to migrate. It's kind of a thing we do IRL, so why shouldn't it happen in DA?  Especially in large cities like Val Royeux. 

Again, there doesn't have to be a reason given for Rivainis to be where they are.  Because people migrate.

People migrate for reasons. A huge range of reasons, the least of which is to see whats over that hill, but reasons none the less. 

[sandalisthemaker]

daaaav wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...



Make people happy?  Is this another 'inclusiveness for the sake of inclusiveness' thing that keeps getting thrown around?

They should have some presence.
Humans tend to migrate. It's kind of a thing we do IRL, so why shouldn't it happen in DA?  Especially in large cities like Val Royeux. 

Again, there doesn't have to be a reason given for Rivainis to be where they are.  Because people migrate.

People migrate for reasons. A huge range of reasons, the least of which is to see whats over that hill, but reasons none the less. 

The reason need not be given.

[Fast Jimmy]

fchopin wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

No. I'm just wondering what number of Rivanni NPCs in a foreign city would make people happy.

More than one...

So... three? Four? Ten?

Or will Isabella and Vivien be okay?



I'm really just not a fan of giving people what they ask for unless they understand what they are really want, so there can be no complaints after the fact. Not that I have any control over Bioware's creative process, but I still am very curious as to what would count as meeting the given request. 

[sandalisthemaker]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

No. I'm just wondering what number of Rivanni NPCs in a foreign city would make people happy.

More than one...

So... three? Four? Ten?

Or will Isabella and Vivien be okay?



I'm really just not a fan of giving people what they ask for unless they understand what they are really want, so there can be no complaints after the fact. Not that I have any control over Bioware's creative process, but I still am very curious as to what would count as meeting the given request. 

Why are you so fixated on a number?
Why do you assume that the presence of Rivaini or any other dark skinned NPC's are somehow due to demands from fans?
Couldn't it possibly be because Bioware has a reason for it? Or simply because they want to?

[Fast Jimmy]

Plaintiff wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

No. I'm just wondering what number of Rivanni NPCs in a foreign city would make people happy. Would it be the same number as other NPCs from foreign countries? Or should it be demonstrably more?

Well they don't have to be Rivaini. Hubert was a dark-skinned Orlesian, and we can make dark-skinned Ferelden characters in DA:O and DA2. And Antiva has a variety of skin tones too.

I don't really feel comfortable trying to settle on a specific number. It's not like there's some quota of diversity that you can fulfill and say "now we can't possibly be racist".

I don't think anyone's being racist. But people are expressing displeasure, so that means they are unhappy.

People who are unhappy and don't fully explain and quantify their demands to make them no longer unhappy are the most frustrating type that a person like myself can think of. I'm really not trying to be abrasive. But people are just expecting Bioware to guess right to meet their need. 

[werewoof]

exactly how many times am i going to have to see the "this is just pandering to [inset demographic here]" argument on this site like who the hell else do you think they want to appeal to the people asking for these things are the people who will purchase this product and poc are a part of that group of people and should be given just as much visibility as anyone else

"inclusiveness for the sake of inclusiveness" ugh please give me one good reason that this argument is even remotely valid because all it seems to imply is that yall think anyone who isnt a white straight dude has to earn their way into your games or something and thats some bs

Modifié par tiktac, 17 septembre 2013 - 01:46 .

[Plaintiff]

daaaav wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...



Make people happy?  Is this another 'inclusiveness for the sake of inclusiveness' thing that keeps getting thrown around?

They should have some presence.
Humans tend to migrate. It's kind of a thing we do IRL, so why shouldn't it happen in DA?  Especially in large cities like Val Royeux. 

Again, there doesn't have to be a reason given for Rivainis to be where they are.  Because people migrate.

People migrate for reasons. A huge range of reasons, the least of which is to see whats over that hill, but reasons none the less.

The humans of Thedas originate from a group of settlers from some other, as yet un-named place. If we're subscribing to your notion that The Dragon Age setting follows the same evolutionary rules as Earth (although I can't imagine why we ever would), then it takes many millions of years for humans to evolve into distinct ethnic groups, while humans have only inhabited Thedas for a few millennia, meaning humanity was already racially diverse when it arrived in Thedas.

[fchopin]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

So... three? Four? Ten?

Or will Isabella and Vivien be okay?



I'm really just not a fan of giving people what they ask for unless they understand what they are really want, so there can be no complaints after the fact. Not that I have any control over Bioware's creative process, but I still am very curious as to what would count as meeting the given request. 

I don't consider Isabella to be black so she does not count in my book.
I don't care how many there are but i want more than one.
 
I don't think its a case of Bioware giving people what they want but if they put one black person in the game what is wrong with putting more in the game.

[addiction21]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

 but I still am very curious as to what would count as meeting the given request. 

Equal

[sandalisthemaker]

addiction21 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

 but I still am very curious as to what would count as meeting the given request. 

Equal

You should know better than to even request that.

Equal numbers would require a massive and extensive overhaul of the series, or at the very least a damn good and believable and extensive explanation because... reasons.  

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 17 septembre 2013 - 01:50 .

[brushyourteeth]

Filament wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Filament wrote...

I don't like this weird quota game we're playing now.

People who make sense to be represented should be represented. Preferably make as many of them make sense as possible. The amount of representation should be enough, not degrading, etc. I don't see the point in micromanaging beyond that.

I just really wanted to draw attention to this sentence, because I agree.

And that's what I wanted. The clarification that people want more than the setting would not ally dictate makes sense.  

Again, nothing wrong with that... but when people say "more" without also saying "so many you may even need to consider a plot reason for why there is so many more than the setting would normally dictate," it can wind up win ineffective results. 

I for one never said there should not be a plot reason for any group to exist, or denied that this might require tweaking the setting. I still think it should be done. And it's not really something to dismiss so assuredly, which is the sense I get from these kinds of conclusions you make, now that you're assured the devs are on your side or whatever, as if it's ultimately "off-topic to Dragon Age" or something. It's kind of the whole point of these kind of threads to request the devs make a change of course. (for that matter, any request thread)

That being said, I don't think the rabbit hole needs to go so deep that every non-white character has to justify their existence with exposition about where they came from.

On board with you again, Filament.

[AlexanderCousland]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

No. I'm just wondering what number of Rivanni NPCs in a foreign city would make people happy.

More than one...

So... three? Four? Ten?

Or will Isabella and Vivien be okay?



I'm really just not a fan of giving people what they ask for unless they understand what they are really want, so there can be no complaints after the fact. Not that I have any control over Bioware's creative process, but I still am very curious as to what would count as meeting the given request. 

Nobody has to explain to YOU how many People of color they would like to see in game, furthermore the fact that you think that a video game character should need an explanation for having darker skin is ridiculous in the first place. What you are essentially asking other posters (who may be poc) is to explain to YOU why they want to see more people who look like them in game, and how many are they happy with, dude...chill out.