454 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

 but I still am very curious as to what would count as meeting the given request. 

Equal

You should know better than to even request that.

Equal numbers would require a massive and extensive overhaul of the series, or at the very least a damn good and believable and extensive explanation because... reasons.  

"Tanning got really popular, really fast."

[brushyourteeth]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

 but I still am very curious as to what would count as meeting the given request. 

Equal

You should know better than to even request that.

Equal numbers would require a massive and extensive overhaul of the series, or at the very least a damn good and believable and extensive explanation because... reasons.

I agree that in an already established setting, creating a perfectly split amount of races in countries like Ferelden and Orlais wouldn't make much sense.

Same as if we were playing a game that took place in Chile and saw a completely even spread of races there. An explanation would probably be wanting. Not vital, but wanting.

At the same time, there is a way to make sure that everyone does get representation, and that they are represented as equals, even if the numbers don't break down into a perfectly sliced pie chart of races in each city.

Isabela and Duncan, for instance -- great characters. Made me want to see more from the Rivaini people.

[sandalisthemaker]

brushyourteeth wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

 but I still am very curious as to what would count as meeting the given request. 

Equal

You should know better than to even request that.

Equal numbers would require a massive and extensive overhaul of the series, or at the very least a damn good and believable and extensive explanation because... reasons.

I agree that in an already established setting, creating a perfectly split amount of races in countries like Ferelden and Orlais wouldn't make much sense.

Same as if we were playing a game that took place in Chile and saw a completely even spread of races there. An explanation would probably be wanting. Not vital, but wanting.

At the same time, there is a way to make sure that everyone does get representation, and that they are represented as equals, even if the numbers don't break down into a perfectly sliced pie chart of races in each city.

Isabela and Duncan, for instance -- great characters. Made me want to see more from the Rivaini people.

I was being sarcastic... because Fast Jimmy.
I personally would not require an explanation for a sizable number of Rivainis etc.

[Fast Jimmy]

I for one never said there should not be a plot reason for any group to exist, or denied that this might require tweaking the setting. I still think it should be done. And it's not really something to dismiss so assuredly, which is the sense I get from these kinds of conclusions you make, now that you're assured the devs are on your side or whatever, as if it's ultimately "off-topic to Dragon Age" or something. It's kind of the whole point of these kind of threads to request the devs make a change of course. (for that matter, any request thread)

That being said, I don't think the rabbit hole needs to go so deep that every non-white character has to justify their existence with exposition about where they came from.

Heh.

First of all, I feel like I know the devs (at least the ones who post on here) enough to know I would NEVER be "on their side" in terms of my perspective versus their's.

Secondly... you seem to be thinking I am saying no Rivanni should exist in DA:I. Of even that if one does, it needs a long, lengthy story behind it. Not so. No explanation was given for why Duncan was Rivanni and in Ferelden when the game started. None was needed.

You also seem to think I am saying there shouldn't be a lot of Rivanni (or, as Plantiff pointed out, other nationalities whose skin tone just happens to be dark). That's not the case. But just like there was an explanation for why there was dozens of Ferelden NPCs in Kirkwall, a Free March city, it would stand to benefit the narrative if a similar explanation was given if dozens of Rivanni NPCs were in Orlais/Ferelden.

Say a plague broke out. Say the Qunari invaded. Say the Rivanni naval fleet is mobilizing to support The Empress against Duke Gaspard.

But not saying anything and then just putting more Rivanni into a location than any other visiting nationality begins to stretch the credulity of the narrative. If this was any other Thedas nationality (say the people of the Andefells, who have gotten one "token" character the entire series is far), then would it be as vital to have?

Fast Jimmy wrote...

but I still am very curious as to what would count as meeting the given request.

Equal

I don't see that working unless a DA game was set in Rivain. Which, given their prevalence towards piracy, sounds like a game I would love to play.

[daaaav]

sandalisthemaker wrote...



The reason need not be given.

Everyone (and every character) has a story. People don't just pop out of the ground. 

[devSin]

daaaav wrote...

Everyone (and every character) has a story. People don't just pop out of the ground.

White people do, apparently.

Anyway, the question is answered. The developers will put in whatever range of skin tones they want, and there's not yet reason to believe the expanded range allowed by the new engine won't extend to the protagonist.

Modifié par devSin, 17 septembre 2013 - 02:06 .

[Plaintiff]

daaaav wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...



The reason need not be given.

Everyone (and every character) has a story. People don't just pop out of the ground. 

What's your point? They don't have to tell it to you. Do you stop black people in the street and ask them to regale you with the romantic, suspenseful tale of how they arrived on your shores?

[daaaav]

Plaintiff wrote...


The humans of Thedas originate from a group of settlers from some other, as yet un-named place. If we're subscribing to your notion that The Dragon Age setting follows the same evolutionary rules as Earth (although I can't imagine why we ever would), then it takes many millions of years for humans to evolve into distinct ethnic groups, while humans have only inhabited Thedas for a few millennia, meaning humanity was already racially diverse when it arrived in Thedas.

You know what? I could honestly come to accept the idea of  inherant racial diversity. Uniformity of linguistics bother me to a far greater extent. I remeber being rather infuriated that various dwarves in Orzamar appeared to share linguistical characteristics of random NPC's in Ostagar for example.

I would prefer a rich diversity of cultures rather than a homogenised mush. 

[sandalisthemaker]

daaaav wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...



The reason need not be given.

Everyone (and every character) has a story. People don't just pop out of the ground. 

Does every NPC give the PC an extensive explanation of their background?

[AlexanderCousland]

daaaav wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...



The reason need not be given.

Everyone (and every character) has a story. People don't just pop out of the ground. 

Apparently White' s do, no explanation needed.

[Fast Jimmy]

Nobody has to explain to YOU how many People of color they would like to see in game, furthermore the fact that you think that a video game character should need an explanation for having darker skin is ridiculous in the first place. What you are essentially asking other posters (who may be poc) is to explain to YOU why they want to see more people who look like them in game, and how many are they happy with, dude...chill out.

You have mistaken my questions for demands. Sorry about that. I was trying to help others understand their own requests so they can easily say what they would be happy with.

Someone said earlier that the quality of the dark skinned companions (which can be other than Rivanni, but which are, for reference reasons, easier to deal with just the one nationality since it is easily referenceable) did not matter if it was only going to be one or two.

Which is totally fair. But it also engenders the question of where people WOULD be happy. Four or five really well developed ones? Twenty minor NPCs? A middle ground between the two? More than twenty well developed NPCs?

This isn't about telling Bioware where to stop... more along the lines of finding out where people want Bioware to start.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 17 septembre 2013 - 02:10 .

[daaaav]

Plaintiff wrote...

daaaav wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...



The reason need not be given.

Everyone (and every character) has a story. People don't just pop out of the ground. 

What's your point? They don't have to tell it to you. Do you stop black people in the street and ask them to regale you with the romantic, suspenseful tale of how they arrived on your shores?

Haha. I'm Australian so the idea of asking someone where they came from and why is hardly unusual. We are a nation of immigrants such as yourselves (but younger) and no, the story doesn't have to be told but it is usually shared with gusto.

[Fast Jimmy]

Plaintiff wrote...

daaaav wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...



The reason need not be given.

Everyone (and every character) has a story. People don't just pop out of the ground. 

What's your point? They don't have to tell it to you. Do you stop black people in the street and ask them to regale you with the romantic, suspenseful tale of how they arrived on your shores?

I have known white people to visit remote parts of Africa and had black people do that exact thing to them. Does that count?

[Fast Jimmy]

I don't have much to disagree with here, though it'd be good to keep in mind that many foreign nationals may well be "invisible" in a sense. Anders had no indication of being from the Anderfels at all. There's not much distinguishing a Marcher from a Ferelden either, in terms of appearance and accent at least. Antivans, Orlesians and Tevinters have more to go on, but say in terms of the breakdown of nameless "furniture NPCs," aside from possibly wearing distinctive clothing, there'd be little way to tell them apart either. (except an Antivan tan)

And have we met anyone from Nevarrans yet? I honestly don't know... simply because so many nationalities in Thedas appear to be "Ferelden-lite" which amounts to just being Ferelden without the dogs. Which is a waste of setting.

[Plaintiff]

daaaav wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

daaaav wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...



The reason need not be given.

Everyone (and every character) has a story. People don't just pop out of the ground. 

What's your point? They don't have to tell it to you. Do you stop black people in the street and ask them to regale you with the romantic, suspenseful tale of how they arrived on your shores?

Haha. I'm Australian so the idea of asking someone where they came from and why is hardly unusual. We are a nation of immigrants such as yourselves (but younger) and no, the story doesn't have to be told but it is usually shared with gusto.

I am also Australian. I don't ask non-white people to tell me about their 'home' country because chances are it's Australia.

[werewoof]

Avejajed wrote...

I don't understand what the BFD is. Quotas? Race only if it's making sense? What??

Put some more dark skinned people in. Then toss in some yellow skinned, and some red skinned, and purple and green skinned. Even toss in some damn orange skinned, it's a fantasy game after all.

the whole "making sense" thing is usually just another excuse for white boys to get upset about seeing someone other than white boys in their games. "but its not realiiistiiiic!!! its based on europe and theres absolutely no reason this can ever change ever if the game started as a white euro-centric stock fantasy it should stay that way because change is scary" 

[Fast Jimmy]

Avejajed wrote...

I don't understand what the BFD is. Quotas? Race only if it's making sense? What??

Put some more dark skinned people in. Then toss in some yellow skinned, and some red skinned, and purple and green skinned. Even toss in some damn orange skinned, it's a fantasy game after all.

Please don't circumvent the profanity filter. It attracts the robo mods.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 17 septembre 2013 - 02:24 .

[Shadow Fox]

FreshIstay wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

No. I'm just wondering what number of Rivanni NPCs in a foreign city would make people happy.

More than one...

So... three? Four? Ten?

Or will Isabella and Vivien be okay?



I'm really just not a fan of giving people what they ask for unless they understand what they are really want, so there can be no complaints after the fact. Not that I have any control over Bioware's creative process, but I still am very curious as to what would count as meeting the given request. 

Nobody has to explain to YOU how many People of color they would like to see in game, furthermore the fact that you think that a video game character should need an explanation for having darker skin is ridiculous in the first place. What you are essentially asking other posters (who may be poc) is to explain to YOU why they want to see more people who look like them in game, and how many are they happy with, dude...chill out.

As a white dude myself I wonder why other ethnic groups need justification in Thedas yet folks aren't bothered by everyone being white in the game.

[sandalisthemaker]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

As a white dude myself I wonder why other ethnic groups need justification in Thedas yet folks aren't bothered by everyone being white in the game.

Because Europe!!!11!1!1111!1!!