43 réponses à ce sujet

[Lokiwithrope]

I wonder if the Varterral's coming back In Inqusition, since we've seen it in both DAO and DA2. It's one of the few creatures that Dragon Age can really call its own, even though there are similar creatures to it in fiction. If it does return, I hope it's given a boss fight proper for its status. I think this will be a nice starting point, even though it's a different game. The creature and its movement reminds me of the Varterral in many ways.

Would you like a Varterral boss fight like that? Facing down a towering, multi-legged creature whose ferocity is only matched by its tenacity? I think it'd be a cool fight.

[In Exile]

I think it'd be nice if it actually didn't try to murder our elf protagonist for once. Guardian of the people my foot.

Modifié par In Exile, 15 septembre 2013 - 02:42 .

[Lokiwithrope]

In Exile wrote...

I think it'd be nice if it actually didn't try to murder our elf protagonist for once. Guardian of the people my foot.

I don't think they're guardians of the elven people. I think it's more along the lines of elven secrets.

Modifié par Lokiwithrope, 15 septembre 2013 - 02:44 .

[Clockwork_Wings]

I thought one of the logos in Kirkwall looked a lot like one, and thought it was interesting that the girl from Witch Hunt was surprised to see a real one, and Merrill acted like it was a forest fox and she sees them all the time. "Something must have provoked it."

[In Exile]

Lokiwithrope wrote...
I don't think they're guardians of the elven people. More like... elven secrets.

I agree with you - even had a thread on it - but the codex seems to disagree.

Clockwork_Wings wrote...

I thought one of the logos in Kirkwall looked a lot like one, and thought it was interesting that the girl from Witch Hunt was surprised to see a real one, and Merrill acted like it was a forest fox and she sees them all the time. "Something must have provoked it."

Merill was almost a Keeper. 

Modifié par In Exile, 15 septembre 2013 - 02:45 .

[Lokiwithrope]

Clockwork_Wings wrote...

I thought one of the logos in Kirkwall looked a lot like one, and thought it was interesting that the girl from Witch Hunt was surprised to see a real one, and Merrill acted like it was a forest fox and she sees them all the time. "Something must have provoked it."

My guess is that they learned that it was there, guarding Sundermount's caves. They probably kept their distance from it.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

In Exile wrote...

I think it'd be nice if it actually didn't try to murder our elf protagonist for once. Guardian of the people my foot.

Indeed...

[Clockwork_Wings]

Lokiwithrope wrote...

Clockwork_Wings wrote...

I thought one of the logos in Kirkwall looked a lot like one, and thought it was interesting that the girl from Witch Hunt was surprised to see a real one, and Merrill acted like it was a forest fox and she sees them all the time. "Something must have provoked it."

My guess is that they learned that it was there, guarding Sundermount's caves. They probably kept their distance from it.

I didn't catch the party banter, but I believe she said "they" usually leave the elves alone.  She might have said "it", and maybe they've been through before on a previous trip, but it left me with the feeling she had seen a varterral more than once.

Modifié par Clockwork_Wings, 15 septembre 2013 - 02:54 .

[Lokiwithrope]

Clockwork_Wings wrote...

Lokiwithrope wrote...

Clockwork_Wings wrote...

I thought one of the logos in Kirkwall looked a lot like one, and thought it was interesting that the girl from Witch Hunt was surprised to see a real one, and Merrill acted like it was a forest fox and she sees them all the time. "Something must have provoked it."

My guess is that they learned that it was there, guarding Sundermount's caves. They probably kept their distance from it.

I didn't catch the party banter, but I believe she said "they" usually leave the elves alone.  She might have said "it", and maybe they've been through before on a previous trip, but it left me with the feeling she had seen a varterral more than once.

Well, considering that we've intruded on its territory every time we've met one, it isn't impossible that varterrals are usually peaceful.

Imagine sleeping at the foot of Sundermount and hearing the varterral howling at the moon. Man, that would be bone-chilling.

[LobselVith8]

In Exile wrote...

I think it'd be nice if it actually didn't try to murder our elf protagonist for once. Guardian of the people my foot.

That would be a nice change of pace, since the codex from Witch Hunt reads that it was created to protect the People. It's supposed to be able to beat back a High Dragon, according to a story in Dragon Age II (per it's codex).

[dragondreamer]

In Exile wrote...

Lokiwithrope wrote...
I don't think they're guardians of the elven people. More like... elven secrets.

I agree with you - even had a thread on it - but the codex seems to disagree.

The codex suggests they guard both; I suspect they prioritize whatever it was they were specifically created to protect.  I hope we learn more about them in DA:I. 

[Clockwork_Wings]

Lokiwithrope wrote...

Clockwork_Wings wrote...

Lokiwithrope wrote...

Clockwork_Wings wrote...

I thought one of the logos in Kirkwall looked a lot like one, and thought it was interesting that the girl from Witch Hunt was surprised to see a real one, and Merrill acted like it was a forest fox and she sees them all the time. "Something must have provoked it."

My guess is that they learned that it was there, guarding Sundermount's caves. They probably kept their distance from it.

I didn't catch the party banter, but I believe she said "they" usually leave the elves alone.  She might have said "it", and maybe they've been through before on a previous trip, but it left me with the feeling she had seen a varterral more than once.

Well, considering that we've intruded on its territory every time we've met one, it isn't impossible that varterrals are usually peaceful.

Imagine sleeping at the foot of Sundermount and hearing the varterral howling at the moon. Man, that would be bone-chilling.

My point being, in Witch Hunt it was like you more me seeing a dragon or a wyvern.  In 2, it seemed as though it was...like seeing a dragon or a wyvern.  "Oops, we've intruded on its territory" is apt, I was just wondering if it lost mythological status from one game or the next.

Or maybe Merrill's clan is more learned, or closer to their ancestors, or just lucky, and Ariane's was not.

[Lokiwithrope]

dragondreamer wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Lokiwithrope wrote...
I don't think they're guardians of the elven people. More like... elven secrets.

I agree with you - even had a thread on it - but the codex seems to disagree.

The codex suggests they guard both; I suspect they prioritize whatever it was they were specifically created to protect. I hope we learn more about them in DA:I.[/smilie]

The Varterral we fought in DAII was created for the purpose of defending the city on Sundermount, not essentially protect elves. It defended Sundermount against any and all intruders, including other elves.

Imagine two Varterrals meeting, both with opposing tasks. That would be a battle to see.

[dragondreamer]

Lokiwithrope wrote...

dragondreamer wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Lokiwithrope wrote...
I don't think they're guardians of the elven people. More like... elven secrets.

I agree with you - even had a thread on it - but the codex seems to disagree.

The codex suggests they guard both; I suspect they prioritize whatever it was they were specifically created to protect. I hope we learn more about them in DA:I.[/smilie]

The Varterral we fought in DAII was created for the purpose of defending the city on Sundermount, not essentially protect elves. It defended Sundermount against any and all intruders, including other elves.

Yep, I think they guard whatever it was they were created to protect.  But it isn't crystal clear what the Sundermount Varterral was guarding.  And I still wonder why they suddenly attacked the Dalish hunters, since Merrill says they had never had trouble with that Varterral before.  

Imagine two Varterrals meeting, both with opposing tasks. That would be a battle to see.

Since they can't die permanently, that might be a neverending battle.  

[Lokiwithrope]

dragondreamer wrote...

Yep, I think they guard whatever it was they were created to protect. But it isn't crystal clear what the Sundermount Varterral was guarding. And I still wonder why they suddenly attacked the Dalish hunters, since Merrill says they had never had trouble with that Varterral before.

They disturbed a rock. It was one of its favorite rocks.

[MisterJB]

I would like to raise the possiblity of the varterrals being nothing more than cunning animals around which legends were formed.
There is simply no evidence of them possessing any special characteristics given that their behavior can be easily explained by mundane facts and it has directly contradicted the elven legends.
We are told varterrals protect elves and don't usually harm Dalish clans. However, we've seen varterrals attack solitary elves three times now. This could be simply due to it not liking its odds against an entire clan as opposed to a lone elf.
Merrils claims varterrals regenerate on their own so long as they have a duty to fulfill. However, if so, how did the elves lose if they had unkillable weapons capable of defeating High Dragons? And why are Varterrals rare if they, literally, can't die? There should be many leftovers from the time of Arlathan.
We never actually see the varterral in DA2 regenerate so, it's entirely possile the second was as simply the other half of a mating pair or a cub who grew up in the three years between act 2 and 3.

Modifié par MisterJB, 15 septembre 2013 - 04:02 .

[Lokiwithrope]

MisterJB wrote...

I would like to raise the possiblity of the varterrals being nothing more than cunning animals around which legends were formed. There simply is not evidence of them possessing any special characteristics given that their behavior can be easily explained by mundane facts and it has directly contradicted the elven legends.

We are told varterrals protect elves and don't usually harm Dalish clans. However, we've seen varterrals attack solitary elves three times now. This could be simply due to it not liking its odds against an entire clan as opposed to a lone elf. Merrils claims varterrals regenerate on their own so long as they have a duty to fulfill. However, if so, how did the elves lose if they had unkillable weapons capable of defeating High Dragons? And why are Varterrals rare if they, literally, can't die? There should be many leftovers from the time of Arlathan. We never actually see the varterral in DA2 regenerate so, it's entirely possile the second was as simply the other half of a mating pair or a cub who grew up in the three years between act 2 and 3.

• They apparently let the Dalish come and go as they please, according to Merrill. The elves probably pissed it off.
• Varterrals could still be struck down. If an exceptional party of four can kill a varterral, I think an army could do it just as well.
• Just because they're long-lived doesn't mean they were common. Not every city was assigned a varterral, and seeing how the ancient elves were spread out across Thedas, they'd reside in very secluded areas and never venture outward.
• I think the regeneration process is a slow one. The recovery speed might be proportionate to the severity of its injuries. Besides, I wouldn't want to spend time watching how long it takes to heal.

Modifié par Lokiwithrope, 15 septembre 2013 - 03:55 .

[Clockwork_Wings]

MisterJB wrote...

I would like to raise the possiblity of the varterrals being nothing more than cunning animals around which legends were formed.
There simply is not evidence of them possessing any special characteristics given that their behavior can be easily explained by mundane facts and it has directly contradicted the elven legends.
We are told varterrals protect elves and don't usually harm Dalish clans. However, we've seen varterrals attack solitary elves three times now. This could be simply due to it not liking its odds against an entire clan as opposed to a lone elf.
Merrils claims varterrals regenerate on their own so long as they have a duty to fulfill. However, if so, how did the elves lose if they had unkillable weapons capable of defeating High Dragons? And why are Varterrals rare if they, literally, can't die? There should be many leftovers from the time of Arlathan.
We never actually see the varterral in DA2 regenerate so, it's entirely possile the second was as simply the other half of a mating pair or a cub who grew up in the three years between act 2 and 3.

Seconded.

[MisterJB]

1-If the elves pissed it off, then it's further evidence of it being an animal and not some mystical guardian.

2-But if they can just regenerate after being struck down, how would Tevinter ever defeat the elves? If every time Tevinter enslaved an elven city, they'd have to deal with angry varterrals that just keep coming no matter how many times you kill them, you'd think they would just kill every single elf so the varterrals would stop having a duty and could be killed for good.
And yet, there are still plenty of elves around. Varterrals, not so much. Despite, according to elven legends, varterrals being unkillable.
 
3-You'd think that after Arlathan began losing, mass producing unkillable living tanks would be priority number 1 which would make them far more common than they are today if they can't die either by the passing of time or injury.

Modifié par MisterJB, 15 septembre 2013 - 04:02 .

[dragondreamer]

Maybe the Varterrals were the reason Tevinter chose to go to the extreme of burying the whole of Arlathan.

[highcastle]

The process of creating Varterrals may be similar to that of creating golems in that it came at an unbelievably high price. In this case, potentially blood magic. Kirkwall was known for it already. And something had to taint the Eluvian. If the Dalish were practicing blood magic to create some of their greatest works, it could explain why the Varterrals turned against them (demonic possession and/or the same corruption present in the Eluvian).

[deuce985]

I was actually thinking about them other night. I'd like more lore on them. They're still somewhat of a mystery. If they're guardians for elves and there to defend something why are they attacking elves in my party? Also, they apparently have immortality if they have a mission to guard something. What the hell was the Varterral guarding in Witch Hunt DLC?

I just assume that when they're given a task they will attack whoever they please I guess if they feel they're a threat.

Modifié par deuce985, 15 septembre 2013 - 04:30 .

[dragondreamer]

Looking at the codexes again, I stand corrected, it does appear that the Sundermount Varterral was there to protect a city. (Interesting, as I thought ruins on Sundermount were simply the Uthenera site and not also a settlement.) But now I wonder about the actual means of their creation, as it doesn't sound like the elves actively created it, at least according to the story in the codex. Unless it was something the elves collectively created subconsciously with their magic being under threat the way they were by the High Dragon...it was believed to be the answers to their prayers to Dirthamen. Then again, who knows what exactly the elven gods were...

[thats1evildude]

MisterJB wrote...

There is simply no evidence of them possessing any special characteristics given that their behavior can be easily explained by mundane facts and it has directly contradicted the elven legends.

I have to disagree with you on two points.

First, look at that thing's body. Even in a world of magic, the varterral's physiology is bonkers. If that half-rock spider-thingy is a product of the natural environment, then Mother Nature was smoking crack that day.

Second, that creature comes back to life even if you kill it and remove its heart. That's a pretty special characteristic.

MisterJB wrote...

Merrils claims varterrals regenerate on their own so long as they have a duty to fulfill. However, if so, how did the elves lose if they had unkillable weapons capable of defeating High Dragons? And why are Varterrals rare if they, literally, can't die? There should be many leftovers from the time of Arlathan.

They could simply be difficult to produce, and as such, there were only a few to begin with.

My feeling is that there's something going on to explain the varterral's odd behaviour that we simply haven't figured out yet. Perhaps the magisters cursed them, making the varterrals turn on the elves?

Or perhaps, because it was the "elven gods" who created these monsters, they've defaulted to "SLAY EVERYTHING" in the absence of their makers?

Or maybe the ancient elves had a method of directing these monsters - like a control rod for golems - but that knowledge has been lost to the elves (along with everything else) and the varterrals now just attack everyone?

Modifié par thats1evildude, 15 septembre 2013 - 05:03 .

[leaguer of one]

In Exile wrote...

I think it'd be nice if it actually didn't try to murder our elf protagonist for once. Guardian of the people my foot.

 First I get told I'm not elven enough...That something for elves attacks me.... Screw the ancents.