401 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

In Exile wrote...

Isabella is not a very good person. The first contact she introduces you to is a former raider. Of the pillaging sort. The sacking ships sort. As an old friend. And what do you think she used to do for people like Castillon on a semi-regular basis?

She's more of a grey moral person. And she smuggled for Castollon.

[Star fury]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Isabela should've added that Merrill could do with brains too in order to be a pirate captain. I mean Varric "paid money to get protection for Merril" in the alienage. But it would be somewhat harsh.

It would also make absolutely no sense since Merrill is intelligent and is capable of defending herself.

Lmao, I'm absolutely sure Merrill would use magic(blood magic too) to defend herself in front of templars. Oh and if she "is capable of defending herself", why Varric paid money to protect her? 

Modifié par Star fury, 15 septembre 2013 - 04:43 .

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote...
Well, he says it was "just smuggling and petty thievery," and mentioned that extortion, murder and kidnapping were steps down, so he doesn't seem to have been that much of a ship-sacker.

He also neglects to say he was going to trade in poisons after. I think he was just lying to you. 

[Ryzaki]

In Exile wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Well, he says it was "just smuggling and petty thievery," and mentioned that extortion, murder and kidnapping were steps down, so he doesn't seem to have been that much of a ship-sacker.

He also neglects to say he was going to trade in poisons after. I think he was just lying to you. 

Yep. And Isabela's reaction to this is glee. (Until you tell him to shove off then she's aggravated).

I fail to see how people are surprised she'd throw slaves overboard to save herself.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 septembre 2013 - 04:43 .

[leaguer of one]

In Exile wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Well, he says it was "just smuggling and petty thievery," and mentioned that extortion, murder and kidnapping were steps down, so he doesn't seem to have been that much of a ship-sacker.

He also neglects to say he was going to trade in poisons after. I think he was just lying to you. 

Poisons are not illigal to sell nor did he smuggle them.

[Sifr]

simfamSP wrote...

Orrrrr....

She lied.

She *did* have the book on her for three bloody years. She's a liar, end of. It doesn't make her inconsistent and she probably lied because she couldn't bring it up again.

I'd actually prefer her to lie, which honest-to-god person would say "hey Hawke, I murderdered helpless slaves to save my ship and crew. But we're still sleeping together...right?"

Actually, it's made very cler that Isabela lost the Tome, hence why she was so hellbent on recovering it to provide some leverage in case the Qunari ever caught her.

But on topic, why is Isabela undergoing character development so hard for people to understand? If romanced, she ends up a very different person than she began, allowing herself to be vulnerable with Hawke and admit she's fallen for them? The Isabela from the beginning of the game would never have let herself get that close.

Likewise, it's not difficult to imagine that her conscience likely caught up with her about dumping those slaves over the side, leaving them to drown in the ocean. Considering that the crew of the Siren's Call suffered the same ignoble fate when the Qunari sank the vessel while chasing her, that's twice that her selfishness has lead to people suffering while she escaped unharmed.

That and Hawke's influence, also likely lead her to come back and face the music during the Qunari invasion.

[Angrywolves]

We differ on that.
Spirit or no Anders was inconsistent because he was badly written.
Tallis was badly written in MOTA.
Rushed production leads to a bad product imo.

[leaguer of one]

Ryzaki wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Well, he says it was "just smuggling and petty thievery," and mentioned that extortion, murder and kidnapping were steps down, so he doesn't seem to have been that much of a ship-sacker.

He also neglects to say he was going to trade in poisons after. I think he was just lying to you. 

Yep. And Isabela's reaction to this is glee. (Until you tell him to shove off then she's aggravated).

I fail to see how people are surprised she'd throw slaves overboard to save herself.

No one is surprised about it. The thing is you forgetting she felt bad about it. So much that when the next time she was caught up with slaves again she freed them all.

[In Exile]

leaguer of one wrote...
Poisons are not illigal to sell nor did he smuggle them.

It undercuts his credibility. It shows that he's willing to lie to get you to do what he wants. It's perfectly plausible he'd minimize the about of murder, kidnapping and pillage he did.

For all we know he tried to steal those poisons from the raiders. 

[leaguer of one]

Angrywolves wrote...

We differ on that.
Spirit or no Anders was inconsistent because he was badly written.
Tallis was badly written in MOTA.
Rushed production leads to a bad product imo.

It's  not bad writing. The issue with Ander's is that he had a being that no concept of time and simple act with no concern with repercutions. Having soming like that in your body is maddening. Ander mind in da2 was going in two.
And Tallis was also not badly written being that she showws there is more sides to the qun. It just that the ending of MOTA was badly done.

[Han Shot First]

leaguer of one wrote...

Amd Isabela is not inconsistant.

Agreed.

Isabela is a pirate. Piracy, by its very definition, involves violence and murder. That she murdered slaves should not come as a shock. Also that she later frees slaves is not inconsistency, it is character development. Isabela was haunted by her decision and she seeks to make amends by later freeing slaves.

[leaguer of one]

In Exile wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
Poisons are not illigal to sell nor did he smuggle them.

It undercuts his credibility. It shows that he's willing to lie to get you to do what he wants. It's perfectly plausible he'd minimize the about of murder, kidnapping and pillage he did.

For all we know he tried to steal those poisons from the raiders. 

Not telling you your getting poison is not lyng. He did not tell you you're getting elfroot when it turned out to be poison.
He just ask you to get his supplies, he does not have to tell you want it is. Not telling you want your getting is not lying.

[Ironic Discordia]

xelander wrote...

3.Comics/Books are not canon.

Um yes, they are. Stolen Throne and The Calling come before any of the game events and are as-is canon. Asunder and the comics are set after the games start, but the information that isn't affected by potential player choices is still factual within the game world. It's just a matter of whether the plots would play out the same based on whether events in a given player timeline match up.

So, all the info about Isabela's past that we got in Those Who Speak? Totally canon. Nor is her behavior inconsistent with the character you meet in DA2. As other people have pointed out, it's called character development.

dgaider.tumblr.com/post/60455326879/valerie1972-myrandacousland

[Ryzaki]

leaguer of one wrote...

No one is surprised about it. The thing is you forgetting she felt bad about it. So much that when the next time she was caught up with slaves again she freed them all.

Considering the OP...yeah some people are surprised about it. OP says he feels it's OOC and too brutal for her.

As for her feeling bad about it why do you think I'd forgotten about that? Regretting ****ty actions doesn't make you a good person or even a non ****ty one.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 septembre 2013 - 04:56 .

[Amberion]

Jaison1986 wrote...

So here is the thing. When you meet Isabela, she says when she worked with Castillon she discovered that he was smuggling slaves, and she decided to free them because even as an pirate she had her limits. However now in Those who speak, Isabela is shown to actually know that she was transporting slaves, and the time she freed them was not the first. The first time she transported slaves, she got chased by the Orlesian ships and ordered that the slaves were tossed in the sea to make the ship lighter, and they were all left to drown.
I can't be helped but to think this is just way too cruel and brutal for Isabela. It just feel OOC for her to do something like that.

You're assuming she's telling Hawke the whole story, or the truth. Some things people do they don't want other people to know about, so they 'adjust' the truth to make themselves look better.

[Han Shot First]

I'd like to know what, if anything, is too brutal for a pirate?

Pirates aren't cuddly characters who say "Arrrrgh" all day while feeding their pet parrots. They're hijackers, armed robbers and murderers.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 15 septembre 2013 - 05:03 .

[In Exile]

leaguer of one wrote...
Not telling you your getting poison is not lyng. He did not tell you you're getting elfroot when it turned out to be poison.
He just ask you to get his supplies, he does not have to tell you want it is. Not telling you want your getting is not lying.

It's an intentional and willfull misrepresentation. 

[Xilizhra]

Han Shot First wrote...

I'd like to know what, if anything, is too brutal for a pirate?

Pirates aren't cuddly characters who say "Arrrrgh" all day while feeding their pet parrots. They're hijackers, armed robbers and murderers.

Or sometimes mostly smugglers, the thing that Isabela refers to most. And Hawke does all of those throughout the game except hijacking, in a legal sense (unless it all counts as self-defense, somehow).

[Ryzaki]

Han Shot First wrote...

I'd like to know what, if anything, is too brutal for a pirate?

Pirates aren't cuddly characters who say "Arrrrgh" all day while feeding their pet parrots. They're hijackers, armed robbers and murderers.

If anything I'd think Isabela would have to be more brutal than usual to garner her men's loyalty and respect (as well as the respect of other pirates).

*shrugs*

[Mr.House]

MisterJB wrote...

People can change, you know.
Isabela was quite shaken by what she did; and was so ashamed of it she was willing to kill in cold blood; and when the same situations presented itself, she couldn't go through with it. David Gaider himself said that Isabela knows what it's like to regret one's past.
It's not character inconsistency, it's character development.

Pretty jmuch, not that Isabela in the comic was well done, I wish Gaider had Chee write Isabelas stuff, he did a good job with varric and Alistair but his work with Isabela left alot to be desired but this is character development.

Hopefully if Isabela is in DAI Chee writes her again, same with Leli.

[leaguer of one]

In Exile wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
Not telling you your getting poison is not lyng. He did not tell you you're getting elfroot when it turned out to be poison.
He just ask you to get his supplies, he does not have to tell you want it is. Not telling you want your getting is not lying.

It's an intentional and willfull misrepresentation. 

No it's not. It would be if he said you were getting something else other then you got.  He did not say one way or another.

[Sifr]

Amberion wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

So here is the thing. When you meet Isabela, she says when she worked with Castillon she discovered that he was smuggling slaves, and she decided to free them because even as an pirate she had her limits. However now in Those who speak, Isabela is shown to actually know that she was transporting slaves, and the time she freed them was not the first. The first time she transported slaves, she got chased by the Orlesian ships and ordered that the slaves were tossed in the sea to make the ship lighter, and they were all left to drown.
I can't be helped but to think this is just way too cruel and brutal for Isabela. It just feel OOC for her to do something like that.

You're assuming she's telling Hawke the whole story, or the truth. Some things people do they don't want other people to know about, so they 'adjust' the truth to make themselves look better.

Case and point, "Leliana's Song" revealed that the real circumstances behind Marjolaine's betrayal of Leliana was because she framed her for spying on Ferelden, not Orlais, as she claimed to the Warden.

As for Isabela, Maker-forbid that a woman who's profession is Piracy might actually lie about her past? Besides, as the comics also revealed, Isabela's not even her real name!

[leaguer of one]

Mr.House wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

People can change, you know.
Isabela was quite shaken by what she did; and was so ashamed of it she was willing to kill in cold blood; and when the same situations presented itself, she couldn't go through with it. David Gaider himself said that Isabela knows what it's like to regret one's past.
It's not character inconsistency, it's character development.

Pretty jmuch, not that Isabela in the comic was well done, I wish Gaider had Chee write Isabelas stuff, he did a good job with varric and Alistair but his work with Isabela left alot to be desired but this is character development.

Hopefully if Isabela is in DAI Chee writes her again, same with Leli.

But it was well done. It showed how much self doubt she has. She has an air of ocfidence but in true it's a lie. She's developed well.
She  has a mountain of self hate she hides.

[leaguer of one]

Sifr1449 wrote...

Amberion wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

So here is the thing. When you meet Isabela, she says when she worked with Castillon she discovered that he was smuggling slaves, and she decided to free them because even as an pirate she had her limits. However now in Those who speak, Isabela is shown to actually know that she was transporting slaves, and the time she freed them was not the first. The first time she transported slaves, she got chased by the Orlesian ships and ordered that the slaves were tossed in the sea to make the ship lighter, and they were all left to drown.
I can't be helped but to think this is just way too cruel and brutal for Isabela. It just feel OOC for her to do something like that.

You're assuming she's telling Hawke the whole story, or the truth. Some things people do they don't want other people to know about, so they 'adjust' the truth to make themselves look better.

Case and point, "Leliana's Song" revealed that the real circumstances behind Marjolaine's betrayal of Leliana was because she framed her for spying on Ferelden, not Orlais, as she claimed to the Warden.

As for Isabela, Maker-forbid that a woman who's profession is Piracy might actually lie about her past? Besides, as the comics also revealed, Isabela's not even her real name!

But she did not lie. The slave killing happen way before she freed the slaves. Those are two different events.

[wright1978]

Han Shot First wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Amd Isabela is not inconsistant.

Agreed.

Isabela is a pirate. Piracy, by its very definition, involves violence and murder. That she murdered slaves should not come as a shock. Also that she later frees slaves is not inconsistency, it is character development. Isabela was haunted by her decision and she seeks to make amends by later freeing slaves.

I'm not shocked but i think rewriting history to add such a motivation behind the subject that's a major part of her 10 year character arc in DA2 is rather poor in my opinion.