401 réponses à ce sujet

[Wissenschaft]

Jaison1986 wrote...

So here is the thing. When you meet Isabela, she says when she worked with Castillon she discovered that he was smuggling slaves, and she decided to free them because even as an pirate she had her limits. However now in Those who speak, Isabela is shown to actually know that she was transporting slaves, and the time she freed them was not the first. The first time she transported slaves, she got chased by the Orlesian ships and ordered that the slaves were tossed in the sea to make the ship lighter, and they were all left to drown.
I can't be helped but to think this is just way too cruel and brutal for Isabela. It just feel OOC for her to do something like that.

 

Why are you even suprised? You really believed Isabela was just above selling slaves right off the bat. You think she was going to tell her new friends in Kirkwall "I was for slavery (as long as it payed well) before I was against it." Yeah, that would have gone over well. So she lied to Hawke, its not like its the only lie she told.

I would not be shocked if Isabela made it a habit to kill anyone who knew of her slaver past.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 16 septembre 2013 - 04:46 .

[Han Shot First]

Star fury wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

I hate to say this...but I think we can blame a combiantion of One piece and Jack sparrow.

Jack sparrow especially has probably changed many people's image of what a pirate is..indeed, when I played DA2, I can easily see the jack sparrow influence on her character....

As an aside, if Orlais is in civil war, does this mean slavers are making a literal killing? My impression from reading the comics was that the orlesian navy actively hunted down pirates/slavers but if there's a civil war going on....

Captain Blood was "thief and pirate". That doesn't stop him from being admired by generations of readers. Pirates always have a romantic fleur. Isabela is an example of that too.   

He does have a point though that a romanticized view of what pirates actually are might also be playing a role in people being shocked that she did awful things. They might have viewed her as more Jack Sparrow than Henry Morgan, while the comics revealed her to me more similar to the latter.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 16 septembre 2013 - 04:48 .

[Jaison1986]

I kind of confused now. The wiki page says Isabela ordered the slaves to be tossed in the water, yet I managed to find these screenshots showing this guy (Devon) dragging out the slaves to be thrown in the water:





So who did order the deed in the end? Isabela or this slaver Devon?

[Heidenreich]

Is this thread still going? Haven't we already concluded that it's not Character Inconsistency?

[thats1evildude]

It's her ship. Ultimately, everything that went down was her responsibility.

[leaguer of one]

simfamSP wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

I kind of confused now. The wiki page says Isabela ordered the slaves to be tossed in the water, yet I managed to find these screenshots showing this guy (Devon) dragging out the slaves to be thrown in the water:





So who did order the deed in the end? Isabela or this slaver Devon?

It doesn't matter. She obviously agreed to it and let it happen.

It does matter. Saying no means death. Even if she got out of it alive it means she black listed with the armada.

[leaguer of one]

thats1evildude wrote...

It's her ship. Ultimately, everything that went down was her responsibility.

It does matter. Saying no means death. Even if she got out of it alive it means she black listed with the armada.

[lady_v23]

Jaison1986 wrote...

I kind of confused now. The wiki page says Isabela ordered the slaves to be tossed in the water, yet I managed to find these screenshots showing this guy (Devon) dragging out the slaves to be thrown in the water:





So who did order the deed in the end? Isabela or this slaver Devon?

I seriously need to buy the comics... I didn't know this happened.

Totally judging izzy right now.<_<

I will totally rival romance her now.

[leaguer of one]

thats1evildude wrote...

It's her ship. Ultimately, everything that went down was her responsibility.

It does matter. Saying no means death. Even if she got out of it alive it means she black listed with the armada.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

Jaison1986 wrote...

I kind of confused now. The wiki page says Isabela ordered the slaves to be tossed in the water, yet I managed to find these screenshots showing this guy (Devon) dragging out the slaves to be thrown in the water:

...

So who did order the deed in the end? Isabela or this slaver Devon?

I have the comic this scene comes from, so maybe this can help clear things up:

When the Orlesian navy was about to catch up with them, they dumped the slaves as a last resort so their ship could move fast enough to escape. Isabela said that she tried many other things before it came to that, but if they were caught, Orlesians hang slavers and she didn't want to die. It doesn't say whose idea it was. Devon and a crew member are shown actually participating in throwing the slaves overboard, though Isabela takes responsibility as well. She expressed a lot of guilt over this and it's the reason behind her actions in DA2.

"I swore I'd never traffic slaves again. The next time someone tricked me into it, I freed the lot of them." - Isabela, Those Who Speak vol. 2

[frankf43]

MisterJB wrote...

People can change, you know.
Isabela was quite shaken by what she did; and was so ashamed of it she was willing to kill in cold blood; and when the same situations presented itself, she couldn't go through with it. David Gaider himself said that Isabela knows what it's like to regret one's past.
It's not character inconsistency, it's character development.

Not from that you can't. To commit mass murder on that scale you have to either be a Psychopath or pure evil. Either way there is no coming back from that. The character in the game had no evidence that she could or would commit such a despicable act.

[leaguer of one]

frankf43 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

People can change, you know.
Isabela was quite shaken by what she did; and was so ashamed of it she was willing to kill in cold blood; and when the same situations presented itself, she couldn't go through with it. David Gaider himself said that Isabela knows what it's like to regret one's past.
It's not character inconsistency, it's character development.

Not from that you can't. To commit mass murder on that scale you have to either be a Psychopath or pure evil. Either way there is no coming back from that. The character in the game had no evidence that she could or would commit such a despicable act.

Then you clearly don't understand people. It's not about what you do it's about intent.  It you have to choose between letting a 100 here dies to save 1000 then your still a mass murder in your book.

[leaguer of one]

simfamSP wrote...

It does matter. Saying no means death. Even if she got out of it alive it means she black listed with the armada.

I meant morally. She allowed a horrible thing to happen and thus is morally responsible for the lives of those slaves. Especially when she could have done something about it.

Still, I don't hold weight on morals. She was being pragmatic, and it was necessary to survive. Kill a few, to save the rest. A horrible, *horrible* situation to be in, and I think we can't really judge her that harshly.

Not from that you can't. To commit mass murder on that scale you have to either be a Psychopath or pure evil

It's a matter of pragmatism. Killing for the sake of killing: that's evil, that's psychotic. She murdered those slaves for a *reason.* And that was to save the rest of them (profit) her crew and her ship. Was the act selfish? Yes, she was concerned about her own life more than all of the above. But she regrets, and that's important. She knows she's done wrong. She *knows* she's wrong.

Man, do you REALLY want me to bring up Planescape Torment in the cheesiest way EVER?! xD

Even the ending of ME3 carried this point and so many people did not get it.

[crimzontearz]

DA in not known for awesome consistency.....

could be worse.... Remember the Mass Effect Cereal Killer?

[leaguer of one]

crimzontearz wrote...

DA in not known for awesome consistency.....

could be worse.... Remember the Mass Effect Cereal Killer?

It's not an inconsistency with Isabela.

[crimzontearz]

leaguer of one wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

DA in not known for awesome consistency.....

could be worse.... Remember the Mass Effect Cereal Killer?

It's not an inconsistency with Isabela.

I meant even if that was the case

[MisterJB]

simfamSP wrote...
It's a matter of pragmatism. Killing for the sake of killing: that's evil, that's psychotic. She murdered those slaves for a *reason.* And that was to save the rest of them (profit) her crew and her ship. Was the act selfish? Yes, she was concerned about her own life more than all of the above. But she regrets, and that's important. She knows she's done wrong. She *knows* she's wrong.

Man, do you REALLY want me to bring up Planescape Torment in the cheesiest way EVER?! xD

Plus, in the game, Isabela can very well escape with the Tome, leaving Kirkwall to deal with a qunari army, just so she can save her own life. Thus, the argument that the game never indicates Isabela is quite selfish and can commit "despicable acts" is incorrect.

[wolfhowwl]

I always knew Isabela was a scumbag but this is something else.

The promiscuous pirate comic relief of DA2 actually turns out to be a complete monster with the loveable rogue act being just a sociopath's facade and the dullard Hawke falls for it.

Very amusing.

If you romanced her go take a shower.

[leaguer of one]

wolfhowwl wrote...

I always knew Isabela was a scumbag but this is something else.

The promiscuous pirate comic relief of DA2 actually turns out to be a complete monster with the loveable rogue act being just a sociopath's facade and the dullard Hawke falls for it.

Very amusing.

If you romanced her go take a shower.

You do understand what A sociopath is and that being force to kill people does not make you one.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Jaison1986 wrote...

So here is the thing. When you meet Isabela, she says when she worked with Castillon she discovered that he was smuggling slaves, and she decided to free them because even as an pirate she had her limits.

And you believe her why?

[leaguer of one]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

So here is the thing. When you meet Isabela, she says when she worked with Castillon she discovered that he was smuggling slaves, and she decided to free them because even as an pirate she had her limits.

And you believe her why?

Dude. It was to different events. The slave killing event happened before the slave freeing event.

[The Elder King]

wolfhowwl wrote...

I always knew Isabela was a scumbag but this is something else.
The promiscuous pirate comic relief of DA2 actually turns out to be a complete monster with the loveable rogue act being just a sociopath's facade and the dullard Hawke falls for it.
Very amusing.
If you romanced her go take a shower.

Because living Kirkwall with the tome didn't show her nature? More people died for her decision in DA2 (regardless if she returns) than in the comics; plus, I already suspected that her firm decision to not sell those slaves in DA2 wasn't based on her beliefs alone (which the comics somehow confirm: she isn't pro-slavery, and she was tricked on selling them).
I knew full well who Isabela was. So this news doesn't change one bit the opinion I have about her, and I don't regret romancing her.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The question still stands. That Isabela said she did something is no reason to believe that she actually did it.